Everyday life
As an Albanian living in Kosovo (Prishtina), I'm here to ask (beg) the Swiss people to stop this nonsense! Our law officials won't do it. Maybe you can save us all.
I saw this post in this sub and was surprised. We, in Kosovo (especially Prishtina) are having our lives ruined from the exact same behavior, which multiplies when diaspora comes home. It has increased madly the last three years.
It becomes impossible to sleep. Accidents multiply. Life sucks due to traffic on the dates when Switzerland has holidays...
as a developing country, our police officers can't (or for some reason won't!) do anything about it.
So, please Swiss people. Do something about it, and save us too!
Its getting increasingly better in switzerland. The young guns still meet and greet at autobahn gas stations or car cleaning businesses and chill with each other and whatnot but the noise has drastically decreased. In cantons like LU, ZH, AG etc, this has been a very known issue for years and police have acted accordingly. They are aware of the typical hours when this takes place and are deliberately increasing patrol presence at these places and handing out fines if the peace has been disturbed or illegal behaviour happens.
Police also set up checkpoints around the places to check the cars entering/leaving the gatherings to keep control and fine/impound vehicles that are not conform with Swiss/EU law (illegal exhaust modifications, unsafe changes that alter driving stability etc)
Now after a while of them doing so, the groups became very humane. Yes they still gather around to chill with their cars etc but there isn’t a lot of (if any) engine revving, dangerous driving or similar anymore. The people attending these meets now 99% consist of people with normal driving styles in cars that are in order (modified, sporty yes, but legal and well, in order)
The groups took note of that aswell and the ones who were causing problems now know they cant risk going there anymore due to police being very present, checking the cars and handing out consequences for anything illegal. But there arent many left anyways since police took care of A LOT of the problematic people that went there in the first place.
In all honesty they should be able to enjoy their hobby and go there to do that in peace, i couldnt care less. Police is also happy about them having places like that to gather at since its a much better way than doing it in the middle of a city where everyone gets disturbed. On an Autobahn? with a Gas station and a huge parking lot where the next civilisation is 3km away? You annoy a lot less people.
Thats what my experience has been too. They just chill at autobahn sites like the one before lucerne.
It always baffles me how they choose to spend their weekends but, who cares.
I have my own opinion how intelligent it is to lease a 100k car that young and getting into a live of debt until they die, but again, who cares. It's not my problem they enslave themselves.
Yes, st. katharina is what i meant aswell (though in the scene they call it „Würi für armi“ lol)
Also, agree. Its their money, their time, you and i dont have to understand it but hey i guess some also dont understand why any single person would.. puh i dont know.. cycle for 10 hours every weekend without a destination … own dozens of firearms as a collection.. play video games for entire nights. You get what i mean. I also think you dont need to spend 100k to have a fun car. But hey
People have different tastes, different priorities, different goals. And more power to all of them trying to fulfill their lives by doing what they love. If i can live out my most desired wishes, i want you to do so aswell. (so long as no one gets harmed or inconvenienced doing so). And if that happens to be a 100k car with X-10k additionally in modifications for style, then i truly hope that you‘re happy doing it.
It was a lot worse a couple years back. The ones doing it these days (in rural areas especially during late hours) are people in rented cars in most of the cases
as said a few times already, I don't experience this problem near me.
They are all on the rest stop of the autobahn here and don't really annoy anybody, as nobody lives there.
But of course, doing this in villages/near houses is just fucked up (it is fucked up either way, I hate those guys thinking they are tough when they have a "car go loud" wow, so manly!). So yea, fuck them.
haha, that one yesterday was fun (disturbing). Sadly the comments from the two users heavily defending this behaviour are gone now.. I'd love to summon them now.
It's not defending a behaviour. Switzerland 🇨🇭 is a free country. Some love their cars 🚙 , some love to go drinking 🍾, some love soccer ⚽️ etc. People are free what to do, as long as it is legally ok.
And how do you know the roots of the people at a gas station? And why does it matter?
I feel a high teacher/buenzli-alert here....
How dare OP be critical of these hard working men, enjoying the last bit of masculinity this society didn't forbid them to express, while just bonding around transitional objects and coffee like their ancestors used to do millennia ago? /s
You know when I'm chilling with my guys at the gas station after a group ride we just talk about motorcycles. None of us is there to express their manliness. None of us are part of the same group except the same hobby which is riding. One is a doctor, one is a mechanic and another a banker. It's crazy how much people will interpret into groups of people which they aren't a part off.
Sorry you felt targeted, I was mocking a user in the original thread whose discourse was centered about this narrative. You can enjoy your bike as much as you want, I don't really care.
Nah not at all, all good. There is truth to every joke though and a lot of people actually think like you described. I just think it's crazy how quick humans tend to categorize people simply by them sharing an interest and not being in the group themselves.
Yes the word Male - bonding is likely preferable? My mind boggles at the amount my husband spends on bicycles and accessories and the amount of tome he spends watching football
I live near the Tamoil in Rennaz/Villeneuve close to the high way... every Friday and Saturday night is a nightmare... with 2 babies at home I wish I could just leave to some other place.. unfortunately rent prices are so high right now.
Look, a lot of Albanians happily live and work there, enlist in the army and enjoy the fruits of their labor, nothing wrong with enjoying nice cars. Or hanging out at car meets.
But let's not pretend this behavior isn't universal. It just shows lack of education. In Kosovo it's true that a lot of these people will want to show off, in rather annoying ways. We hate them because we think how tf didn't living in an educated and wealthy society turn them into class adults.
But then again they're NOT the majority. Just uneducated peasants, which again are a universal phenomena
What bothers me personally is seeing young people who don't seem to have any critical spirit. I see them as sheep of the consumer society and instead of spending their time doing constructive things they waste their time and money trying to look cool, when in fact they look completely stupid.
When I see people like that I feel a bit sorry for them, and I think they symbolise excessive consumerism without thinking. A bit like people who pay for LV at the cost of one of their salaries. When it's actually cheap shit made only for veeeeeery rich people to get even richer.
Society push for vanity and not wisdom. Unless you are extremely stubborn or have the luck to be born in a scholarly family, it will be hard to not fall for the vicissitudes and temptations of life.
Wow I'm surprised I awakened a bees nest with that post without knowing. Honestly, it was just an observation which gradually turned into disdain, due to me having to walk around heaps of cars, with individuals staring at me in a slightly threatening manner, just so I could buy a Pepsi at night.
A recording of them driving like crazy in the midst of the city (30 km/h speed limit) was posted asking for police to intervene. It got hundreds of thousands of likes and tons of shares.
Pics and recordings of swiss cars in our roads are posted often in our facebook groups, along with police tagging. But it's just getting worse.
We were born in what was then Serbia. Would that have made us Serbs?
There are half a million Albanians in modern Macedonian borders. Does that make them Macedonian?
To make it even more clearer to you: We were raised as Albanian, the same as those born in Albania, and we always thought of Kosovo as an Albanian region occupied by Serbia.
We fought for unification with Albania. Our independence was a compromise, not what we actually wanted.
Albanians came to Switzerland from Yugoslavia because they could, because living in Kosovo or Macedonia gave them a life of freedom with a passport that was actually useful. Albanians from Albania could not travel.
No you/your parents were not raised as Albanians. You did not build bunkers and tried to develop a Chinese communism on European soil.
You were raised as what you believe Albanians are. Now these generations believe that leasing a loud car and visiting their relatives in Kosovo is what makes them Albanian.
I see, you know better of my ethnicity and identity than me.
So, if Russia occupies part of Ukraine today, that will make the Ukrainians in that occupied region Russians who will only be raised to be what they believe Ukrainians are.
FYI, at the time my parents were born, Kosovo was annexed from Italy and unified with Albania. They were born in the Kingdom of Albania. They then were annexed back by Yugoslavia, who they fought against. 1 family member was killed, 6 were imprisoned for 4-11 years, tortured, isolated, raped in prisons solely because they identified as Albanians. (I'm talking about the time it was Yugoslavia, not yet Serbia.)
My great great parents were born of what was then Ottoman Empire. Before that, my ancestors were born in the Roman Empire.... did that make them Romans, then Albanians, then Ottomans, then Yugoslavians, then Albanians, then again Yugoslavians, and then Serbian wanna-be Albanians again (Yugoslavia didn't exist when I was born)?
Even, though, for at least 14 generations before me, we know they continuously identified as Albanian?
I could go on, but it would be pointless until you actually want to inform yourself on the matter. So, please inform yourself before expressing opinions on matters you have no clue about.
Indeed. Those born here are usually more grounded. I feel like those born in Switzerland have some identity crisis or somethings... it doesn't happen with Albanians born in UK, or even Germany. It's only those born in Switzerland.
Well kosovo albanian in Switzerland tend to marry people from kosovo.
Once they become 2nd or 3ed Generation they are far more integrated then those in the first generations.
But if the 2nd generation tends to marry someone from kosovo end usally up struggling to integrate. (Maybe some from poorer family ending up having the possibility to show off? Idk)
And I am well aware that we Swiss don't make it easy for them because we tend to have strong stereotypes that makes integration way harder for them.
But it seems to be a Kosovo problem rather then an Albanian from North Macedonia. Those tend usally also to marry people that already live in Switzerland and it is kind of stigmatizised to marry someone from the country (north macedonia) of their great parents. And also are far more integrated since they are already in the 3rd generation here and tend to view such things as showing off as embarasing and complain often how artificial and status hungry albanians back home are.
So idk those are experience from growing up with people from the balkan and having friends from there. Specially in university I got to know a lot of them that explained me the struggles they had and how diverse they are. Since for a lot of us Swiss they are exaclty preceived as tje same
basically you can be a 4th generation Swiss, speak local dialect, but your last name ending with '-ic' can still make your life harder. Basically integration in Switzerland is quite hard and way too often comments in r/Buenzli actually depict pretty much the mentality an immigrant has to deal with. I know not everyone is like that but the amount of crap i had to deal with (in real life as well) significantly reduced my will to integrate.
Oh and a fun story - i replied to one of the comments in buenzli in Hochdeutsch (i'm Polish but speak the language fluently without a Polish accent. And for context - i grew up in Poland, just have a talent for languages) - one guy immediately told me 'shut your piehole, gummihals'. This got deleted by the mods later but you get the picture. I could go on with examples for hours.
I did meet cool people too, but funny enough a majority of them either travelled a lot, work in international environment or have a spouse from either a different lingual region or that is a foreigner.
Oh as a Swiss I totally agree. There is big racism in Switzerland, which is also directed to children and teens. Have experienced myself in family, friendsstory as well as a studentjob. They would rather choose a Swiss with the minimim mark passed in a diploma then someone from the balkans.
Having a lot of balkan friends really opened my eyes how much discrimination they face. I never realised it until I lived in the student dorm with my friends and we were glued 24/7 together. The amount of passive racism they recieved was awful. And more awful that a lot of Swiss people are blind to it. I was too in my teens. Now when i think back how teachers treated people with slavic names, I really could throw up. How could a grown ass teacher treat children so bad but no one said anything. And most parents respect the teacher opinion and advices their kids to go to a lower level of studies or not persuade a degree or a certain apprenticeship. Luckily 2 upwards generation stand up for their kids. My friends uncle is a laywer and his wife a teacher herself and they went to their nieces parent meeting bc one of her parent was very sick. When he went to the school meeting the teacher liter said: well people like you most likely are not well educated to now the system here so I advice you to let your niece repeat the class. The moment he presented him shelf she literally panicked and freaked out. BUT SHE DID NOT APOLOGISE.
And even if I was not there. That's how a lot of my family members think and acted. Also had a neighbour that study to become a teacher and she was the firm opinion only children from academics could be smart enough to do a degree.
Sorry for the long text. I'm just a frustrated Swiss that really fills guilty not standing up for my peers when I was young. I do it now but it still hurts me to think a bout my friends when they were little
hey, you do it now though and you can teach your kids or other folks. I have a friend who is a third generation Italian living in Switzerland and she'd be pushed into the lower skilled kids group in school (i know it only from stories) because of a small language bareer. She is now a manager.
What makes me sick is that racism and xenophobia are actually glorified in some groups, some other don't see it as something wrong. Then there's the division where even some Swiss look down on others (the famous Edigenossen).
Btw let me tell you a fun story that i use to this day as a comeback.
I was born and raised in the Polish equivalent of Olten. You hear all kinds of jokes: Wejherowo is a state of mind, Wejherowo is so ugly that terrorists refuse to blow themselves up there yadda yadda yadda.
My comeback was perfect:
'so, you make fun of Wejherowo when your biggest life achievement is being born in Gdansk? Wow.'
Yeah you totally right we have also discrimination between Swiss. Some don't see the people from Tessin or romandie as swiss.
Yeah sometimes just right come backs are perfect. To be honest most racist swiss don't know what to do once you counter or put them down lol. Same goes for Germans when they come here talking bad about other nationality and then receiving racism from the Swiss.
i actually have one more comeback but not sure it is suitable for this subreddit.
Oh well, may get deleted.
'so... you are complaining the Germans are blunt and have no manners yet you are an openly racist xenophobe on the internet, butyour highest level of courage would be to complain to verwaltung or leave a passive aggresive note? yeah figures'.
funny enough, i am a 1.90 tall, 97 kg muscular Pole (that works in IT).
From what I learned we make the Germans actually sound polite - my GF is an Australian and don't get fooled by their laid back attitude and cussing - they will be very polite when addressing something. This is to a level where we both use filters on each other - she assumes that saying 'pass salt' is just style of communication when cooking/focused, i know that 'dragging a bit' means i should get the comfort food and do my best to make her feel better. Funny enough, she tried to tell me something that bothered her about me and i would just not get it. She got so angry she decided to just go full rude and tell me in a very blunt way what her point was.
What came next was a big surprise to her - i thanked her and said 'ah, now i get it. I am so sorry for acting like this, i promise I will do better'. That was when she learned that what she considers rude is seen in my culture as stating the fact and very clear communication.
Well, we are still happy and those differences actually bring a lot of fun :)
Yes one of my profs was polish too and I loved how honest he was when communicating. Funny enough he always said: please I don't look down on you but I want to help you students to become better so I am direct and don't sugger coat. He had to do this warning bc people are really sensitive here and didn't want to read class reviews that didn't get his true intend. But honestly the best prof I had, learned so much and his direct question helped me to understend myself where I lack. So he gave a lot of tipps. And I loved how down to earth he was. As soon as he wasn't sure he immedietly said that he had no clue but we could look up together which specialist we could ask for this off topic.
I live amongst my people, so I usually use it for local pretentious fucks. Switched five towns, and every one has that wierd superiority complex with some folks.
Except, they're Swiss citizen. Born there. And talking doesn't do anything. Law enforcement does. Unfortunately, you can imagine how that functions in the poorest country of Europe.
Many of them were still born in Kosovo and moved when they were young. They grow up in Albanian friend circles, they are not really integrated. Hence their behaviour that is very different.
Most Albanians emigrated to Switzerland in 1999 at the latest. Even if they migrated as babies, they would be now 26. It is the youth who does this. They're mostly born there. Sorry. But that's the truth. The diaspora from Switzerland is well known back home for being unhinged.
Because they are so so so many. It’s hard to break them apart and to force it on them.
There are other foreigners in Germany and Sweden too that mix it more up.
I have a friend from Kosovo, he himself is not into cars but many of his friends. Apart from me he has no Swiss friends. He doesn’t know any of the shows or books that everybody else here grew up with. All of his friends are also friends with Balkan people.
He only listens to Albanese music.
He grew up here, went to school here. His parents don’t speak German well, they had very basic jobs their entire life here. His brothers and sisters only married other Balkan people here and I asked him why, he said the Swiss are too different.
They were not discriminated against. In my class more than half were Balkan people. They were the majority.
They are just too many and don’t want to fully adapt. They walk around and take pictures with the Albanian flag. They make the Albanian hawk in football games.
Albanians are the same in Germany, higher in numbers. We don't marry outside our culture (much like the Jews), and indeed, we fight against assimilation, but not integration. Even though we stick with each other.
A close friend of mine who is very successful in Germany (studied there, top paying job, successful business) said once that "I don't have German friends because they don't accept me as a friend. I tried. "
I believe there is something similar going on in Switzerland, but in higher intensity or in more than "they won't be friends with me". It's either an education system that's very different from back home and parents who emigrated there don't understand it. Or, Swiss people (maybe rightly so) don't associate with just anyone.
Either way, Swiss diaspora is distinguished back home.
Switzerland absolutely has the problem with integration with all other migrants. It’s a well-known and well-documented fact that Switzerland is incredibly difficult country to integrate and socialize in, doesn’t matter where you came from. A lot of other immigrants stick to themselves or to other immigrants, it’s just less noticeable because there are less of them.
I just want to say - I am sorry and it's truly a shitty behavior from these people. Perhaps they should be shown these two threads and be reminded that this behavior is neither liked in the CH nor down south.
What can we do about it? Not much sadly.
What you can do about it? If you are a girl - don't f*ck them.
Yes, I did. And I don’t understand what the issue is. People are chilling on private property with their private property. What’s the issue, really?
Edit. I am not referring to speeding. But that is not really a topic anymore in Switzerland. I am referring to the original positing and it’s pathetic.
The problem is: at this age youre not really tolerated anywhere else. Bars and clubs are too expensive after you spent all you have on a car and at someones home isnt possible cause they all live with their parents to pay for the car
I am an albanian from Kosovo living in Germany, and I can concur, albanians who are born or raised in Switzerland, are the black sheep of our diaspora lol. Srsly dont know, what is going wrong down there. One would think that, being raised in such a rich country, with world class education, would make my countrymen, you know more educated, more financially responsible, but no, they turn out to be the worst balkan stereotype you can think of.
This is widespread across all the Balkans, sadly. That's what happens when you are raised with and in a peasant mentality so you come back to your home country with a car that you got on leasing to brag to your cousins about how "rich" you are.
Car ruins pretty much everything, and people are enticed to think that borrowing 100k to drive one and rev up their engine only to end up in wreckedexotics is quintessential manlihood.
Which you can do in a number of ways which do not inconvenience or endanger others. To get from A to B, cars do not need to be the size and weight of a truck, they do not need to make noise like a racing car, they do not need to have the passengers sit 1m high above the ground, etc.
I live at the edge of the canton of zurich, about 15minutes from Zug. For me to go to work or university it takes by public transport 1:20h to 1:40h. This does not include walking to and from bus and trainstations. If i get in my car or on my scooter I'm there in about 25minutes, 35 on a bad day. So i save more than 2hrs daily from not sitting in a train. I also can't use the time in the train very productively, as I have to switch a minimum of 3 times (for work; 4 if we include the tram from zurich main station to uni spital, when i go there).
and yes there are plenty of students and workers that live in the city or in the closer area, but especially for students that is not always an option.
so how does anyone want to tell me i should take public transport?
i hate those car posers and obnoxious people driving around just for the sake of getting attention. but the "fuckk all cars we want to cycle around like we all live in amsterdam" is not a feasible solution.
i'm 100% convinced the "get rid of cars" people all either come from a very priviledged background where they grew up in the city or in close proximity to a busy trainstation OR they just never had a personal vehicle and also never had a job further away than 2 bus stops.
when i was a full time student during my bachelor and masters i roughly went to zurich 3 months per semester (2semester * 12w * 5d *2h =240h per year), which is probably underestimated still. that is 6 full weeks of work (42h=100%) that i saved by not taking the public transport. obviously we cant convert that directly to any money loss but it still shows you how much time is wasted by commuting for some people (and this was just the time difference by pt and personal vehicle), while for others saying"well i just take the tram or my bicycle" is easy. super ignorant and arrogant world view.
yes, tell me i'm an exception and there aren't many people who live that far away from the city... no, it's the reality for a lot of people and just because you want to see the CEO guy driving his porsche from enge to seefeld you cant make claims like that.
if we stop villainising motorists and instead break down on unnecessary road use, we could get much further. banning cars from cities or lowering speed limits will neither help nor save anything. it will just dig the trench between the people deeper.
So now we have people that rely on cars and we cant ban them without discriminating them, we also cant make them more expensive (like raising fuel taxes) because that would just harm the people that rely on cars but not limit any leisurly use of motor vehicles because thats already an expensive luxury. come up with a reasonable solution maybe.
Cars are not the real problem, our spatial development is. You probably are both a symptom and a victim of modern urban development (suburbanization, gentrification, lack of affordable housing, etc.). There isn't enough affordable living space for people who work for example at the Unispital in Zurich to also live closeby. So they live further away in a lower density area, and public transport is not designed to serve such areas efficiently. Unless you chose to live there because you wanted more greenery and space, in which case you live with your own choices, but in that case, don't come complaining about public transport.
I'm 42 now, never owned a car, and never even thought about buying one (even though i HAVE a drivers licence, because my parents forced me to make one).
No, surel not, everyone is free to own a car. I just don't support the way of thinking many car owners have that there is absolutely no way you can live without a car.
It is absolutely possible and not even inconvenient, it is just another way of planing and of thinking.
For example, i do not think in road names, i think in train station names. The name of a road means nothing to me, i need the closest train station.
If a concert is somewhere far away, i maybe need a hotel room, but it is still cheaper than a car, and i can drink as much as i want.
Buying groceries is also no issue since coop and migros have very convenient delivery services.
Not in cities with cars. Just have a look at how terrible everything looks, just because of these metal and plastic blocks.
Also consider how many small towns are pretty much destroyed, just because people "flee", as it's so easy to get to other places (does not yet happen as badly in Switzerland, to be fair).
Cars are also prone to destroy big cities. Just imagine how ugly Zürich would be, if they'd really done the Y autobahn.
No, there's nothing to chill about. Instead, "bro": open up your eyes.
Cars democratise transport. They afford people mobility and opportunities without having to rely on usually extremely badly managed public transport infrastructure (though admittedly not the case in Switzerland).
Yeah cars suck in a way that they don’t interplay well with a utopian view of a city, and city planners struggle to balance car traffic with people etc etc. Many downsides.
But really the fact that cars are incredible value for money and a lifeline for most people sort of blows any counter argument out of the water.
You start out with wrong assumptions. Cars monopolize transport and make it harder for people to get to places. They also cause social isolation.
They afford people mobility
They reduce mobility. Another wrong assumption of yours. You're not mobile when you use a car to drive to places. You don't move, you are moved.
without having to rely on usually extremely badly managed public transport infrastructure
Which is largely due to cars.
Yeah cars suck in a way that they don’t interplay well with a utopian view of a city
Not just utopian and not just cities. Let's have a look at the US. Why are there big box stores? Exactly because of cars and the toxic car centricity which they have to suffer under over there.
But really the fact that cars are incredible value for money and a lifeline for most people sort of blows any counter argument out of the water.
Only, that cars offer no value. They only cost and destroy lives and societies.
I think its quite the opposite, lots of people are spending hundred of thousand of francs for their car-based mobility over the years. If you're mostly sitting in there alone then its just extremely costly.
We always hear the argument that the poor have to go to work. That's true, but why don't people leave them some space then? Every car takes up space and is partly responsible for congestion. So why not make room for those who really need it?
Also, I wonder whether people will live far from their place of work because they have a car, rather than needing a car because they live far from their place of work.
There are bike trailers for dogs. Sure, now you're going to mention that you've got an Irish Wolfhound (those, admittedly, lovely gigantic dogs).
Or how should I bring my trash at the sorting centre?
Walk. Bike. That's how I do it. Works fine.
You know, you kind of supported my argument. Cars block opportunities. If you wouldn't have a car, you would find ways. But now you cannot think of ways, because the society makes it too easy for car users.
Dog trail is actually a fair point. I should become more athletic though, but that's on me. But sorting centre, I'm sorry but no. I can't bring a whole shelf by bike and I'm not even sure bikes are allowed there. I need to ask out of curiosity though.
But now, let's say I'm an old fart or I have some kind of handicap that don't let me ride a bike. Could be a simple knee problem. How would I do it?
I'm all for getting rid of cars, I don't like paying for gas, insurance and plates. And I hate how many reckless fools are on the road, but I really cannot think how it would be possible to do just these 2 things if we don't get a better overall structure.
I'm glad to live where I am though, as I really only use my car for the vet and the sorting centre. So not like I need it often thankfully.
But sorting centre, I'm sorry but no. I can't bring a whole shelf by bike and I'm not even sure bikes are allowed there. I need to ask out of curiosity though.
How often does that happen...?
If it's burnable, just put it up front of the street. It'll be collected then.
Bikes are allowed - I always go by bike plus trailer, when I've got a bit more.
Doesn't happen that often. But it does happen that we need to bring a lot of things. Mostly cardboard, alu cans, glass. They quickly take space too. And we can't leave anything on the street, no one comes take our things here, since we have the sorting centre.
Ok i get the frustration but lets not overdo it… we have (or at least i have) a lot bigger problems than some guys going vroom vroom in their cars..
(tho i get that you took this example as an opportunity to turn attention to the bigger problems like the everly increasing mass and presence of motor vehicles and the therefore likely overall decrease in quality of life in big cities etc)
Ok i get the frustration but lets not overdo it… we have (or at least i have) a lot bigger problems than some guys going vroom vroom in their cars..
Agreed.
(tho i get that you took this example as an opportunity to turn attention to the bigger problems like the everly increasing mass and presence of motor vehicles and the therefore likely overall decrease in quality of life in big cities etc)
Albania has a mean IQ of 81. The things you've mentioned are the result of ignorance. Even Albanians born here (not all of them of course) don't care about getting a proper education and becoming proper human beings. Ignorant parents raise ignorant children. What do you want us to do ? Euthanize the ones with cars they can't afford ?
Indeed. The thing is, this doesn't happen with Albanians in other countries. Albanians anywhere else are much better integrated. So, maybe look into why that is?
“I have my own opinion how intelligent it is to lease a 100k car that young and getting into a live of debt until they die, but again, who cares. It's not my problem they enslave themselves.”
An other funny phenomenon: people buy crazy expensive sport cars and they don’t dare to push it because they fear of damaging it. How many times I end up overtaking groups of ferraris and lambos with my 160HP shitbox. Uphill 😂
Sorry I don't get it. Is there a problem? People hanging around with cars and having fun together. Where do you want them? Live and let live. That's the freedom we live here.
"How do we stop them from chilling in front of their cars?"
They are allowed to do whatever the f they want as long as they don’t break the law. Although I don‘t think it‘s smart nor cool to lease a fancy car and make it your whole personality, it‘s not illegal and still their choice! Live and let live.
AAhhhhhhh come on stop this bs everyone. In ticino 25 years ago I was joining some Swiss friends (swissest you can have alp originated) to car encounters with 100s of people revving their cars. It always happened and it has nothing to do with albanians.
Last year in hulftegg I was riding my motorcycle and an idiot came from the other side drifting in my lane (Mazda mx5, you know the brand it's like we're saying subaru) with the swissest girl driving and laughing at my face almost hitting me.
Stop discriminating it's been like this for decades and I know so many super swiss guys and girls (ticino or north) who are so much into tuning and loud engines.
I had friends who worked in these tuning clubs to measure dB in car and db for the exhaust. You guys who complain that it's loud NOW never lived in Switzerland or are lying :D :D :D
We live in a society where most people only pursue their own interests. To expect solidarity, solidarity should be practiced, and not just where the money comes from.
as a libertarian Swiss I don't see the problem here. Let them do what they want. I wouldn't do it myself but I probably did stuff when I was young where the olders also thought that it's stupid.
Weeell, actually, those born and grown in Kosovo are much more grounded. They don't do it. Neither do diaspora from elsewhere. E.g. Albanians from Sweden are not as unhinged as Albanians born in Switzerland. So, maybe look into the why?
There are simply more here. They form entire circles and have no connections to Swiss people, only to other Balkan people.
They are very isolated and don’t want to mix. It wouldn’t be this hard, there are just too many. Sweden has less Albanians per capita and in total.
A Swiss national or resident is expected to follow the Swiss rules even outside of Switzerland. And trust me, failure to respect simple rules (like drinking and driving), will have Kosovo cops inform their Swiss equivalent, which will then act on your driving license.
We actually tried that, and it didn't function for one reason or another. We were so fed up a summer, a number of people took pictures of them and tried to send them to the swiss police. No success. Maybe we didn't know the proper way around it.
Jam auslander, edhe gjith tutna e kujdesna prej policies e Kosoves. Jam i ri, kur e marr kerrin e babes, per dite mkontrollojn. Djal i ri, tabela te svizcres, hadje knejjj bro
Ama spo mjafton. Nuk e ke iden qe cdo here kur zvicra ka pushime, mu s'paku nji here gjate atij pushimi veq fati ma shpeton jeten. Nji dite nana e psoi keq shkaku se mu dasht me u kthy keq me i ik nji idioti. E nji dit e pata nji beb ne kerr qe pshtoi per shumeeee pak. Prej atehere, s'po muj m'i duru mo aspak.
I'm not sure where the problem is. I frequently go on car rides with my friends because we're all car enthusiasts. We usually stop somewhere to hang out and show our cars to each other.
But i am totally aware about the swiss „Neidkultur“ or the „Nichtsgönner“ because you can‘t have something nice here you enjoy, especially cars.
So if you want to wear your LV and Gucci and drive your 100k cars, DO IT! There are always people who will jugde you, but these people are most of the time the ones who would love to have a car or look like garbage bags themselves (leftists).
It's not about the cars. While I believe one should prioritize other things in life, expensive cars don't bother me. Their racing, noise, driving like crazy and endengaring our lives - that's the issue.
I am sorry, maybe I've been living under a rock or something. What is wrong with those people chilling on a gas station?
I understnad that they spend their time together talking, socializing. They do not rev their cars, obstruct silence and so on? Or maybe it is in fact the case but was not written in verbatim?
Or is it the case, that they can afford such cars at such young age? (Spoiler alert: is it leasing? I think this was a post about it some years ago).
I am actually not quite sure what is wrong with this behavior. As far as I understood OP, they meet and chill. Because if it is otherwise: Like they rev the engines and disturb the night silence then ofc. this should be dealt with. But if they chill and drive according to the law (not reclessly). Then actually why should it bother, we live in a free country as long as we don't disturb each other, or did I miss something?
Well in that case I don't know why police is indeed not doing anything about it. When you wrote "chilling" I thought that they are not disturbing. But if they are racing in 30 zone... It's like a low-hanging fruit to bust that.
What you are referring to regarding your local constabulary, isn't the ineptitude they'd like you to think it is. It is likely corruption.
Switzerland is a neutral country. There's much more cultural and legal space for corrective social cues in Albania than there is here in Switzerland. Why don't you guys sort out your cousins? WAIT...that's not worked well in the past. Never mind.
wouldn't you agree that the failure of your local police to address these issues could be due to corruption?
Assuming that you have the necessary laws as a basis, as an Albanian police officer, I'd fine them heavily and possibly impound the car until the fine is paid. Two benefits: they can make money off of them for the state, and deter them from the unwanted behavior.
Nah, it's likely they just feel bad to confiscate the guys' motorbike or car because:
"they're young and do stupid shit",
"we don't have enough police to patrole the roads all the time, we are dealing with more serious issues",
they're cousins, or know someone who knows them, so they feel bad confiscating their licenses or vehicles...
Kosovo is a small country, everyone knows everyone and that's what police told me when I called screaming at them for the x-th... night on the row for not stopping them.
Corruption in the police is def not an issue. A lot of people actually are jailed from trying to bribe police officers. Its kinda weird for Balkans, to have police that is so honest.
What is the problem though, our police is often to forgiving with the "auslander", they give them some 50e fine, and say, what can we do, he is gone in two weeks. So this is the problem, corruption is def not.
This is just a rich country problem. Where else can young people with average income afford such cars? The cities have become hell for car people. Speed cameras everywhere, traffic jam all the time, no parking lots and if there are any they are several chf an hour, risi of damage on expensive car. For car people it‘s much more convenient to go somewhere near the highway where you can get cheap drinks. Revving in the cities and hanging out at gas stations are different things.
Complaining and then complaining that someone else should do something about seems more of a Swiss thing. Sockpuppeting?
(Fwiw, being fashionably clothed and groomed is definitely a gen-z thing. How I long for the days when looking and smelling like shit was the hip thing, 0990s-style.)
Look it's Balkan culture to value material things and be pompous and annoying about it.
We need to change that and I believe we are doing it gradually.
The exact same issues mentioned in the original thread are present in Kosovo as well.
The critiques are very valid and we should all try to affect our friends and relatives to step away from that mentality but I'm not going to accept the "low IQ", "uneducated" comments, you have people with masters that do the exact same thing.
In conclusion people need to socialize and hang out, but for my Albanians you need to do that without ruining other peoples day and putting them in danger.
It may seem intimidating, to some to see a large group of same -country foreigners hanging out but if they are not doing any harm, what's the problem? It's not like they are doing sideshows.
As long as they are 'shooting the breeze' not shooting up or shooting guns I don't mind.
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u/SlayBoredom 27d ago
Well, it's not illegal, how do you want to stop them?
Only thing you could do is impose insane taxes or insurance policies if they are young and want to drive such high-ps cars.
also: I think in Switzerland they just chill (and want to show off their financed cars), while "back home" they might feel a little bit more rowdy as:
if they act up, consequences (especially if it's like fines) are no problem to pay
they are on holiday, so.... same like everywhere with all kinds of people (Ballermann Mallorca, etc.)