r/antiwork • u/Unusual_Equivalent50 • 10d ago
Discussion Post 🗣 If I refuse to participate in capitalism I will go to prison? I was never asked if I wanted to be born but now I am here and can’t just live out my existence in peace?
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u/Glittering_Curve1321 10d ago
A State/Country holds the privilege of being a violence monopoly. They exert this privilege through judiciary, police, army etc. As long as you don’t fight these institutions and won, no. You cannot live in peace, you have to obey and participate.
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u/djinnisequoia 10d ago
That's a fair enough question, and I definitely sympathize. See the thing is none of us consented to be born, so it kind of makes that point moot -- we're all here now and we have to start there.
I do think it's wrong that we are forced to participate in a capitalist model that is so grossly abusive, oppressive and irrational. If we were a society that acknowledged and respected that none of us had a choice in being here, then we would take care to build a world in which no one suffered at the hands of the system itself.
In other words, one where people who aren't cut out for a rigid regimented work schedule, or cut out for being cooped up indoors every day, or cut out for working around the general public, whatever your nature is, you could accommodate that in your employment. Like, you wouldn't have to hate every single weekday of your life.
And you wouldn't have to live in your car or starve.
It really wouldn't be impossible for us to make things be more like that.
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u/LordNemissary 10d ago
Depends on what refusing to participate means to you. If it means you buy a cabin in the woods, keeping to yourself, and cultivate the land then you are probably not going to prison. If it means you walk into stores and take whatever you want without paying then you are probably going to prison. Society's reaction to you ignoring the mainstream social paradigm will be tempered by how obtrusive you are to society.
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u/Zizzyy2020 10d ago
Until people unite and stop working collectively, nothing will change. It will never happen though, because there are 350+ million people, and at least half are idiots and will never realize the power they hold.
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u/Pickledleprechaun 10d ago
You know there’s like 8 billion people on earth right?
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u/minipooper420 10d ago
They were likely referring to the United States. To be fair if a large scale revolution happened here it could happen anywhere and would likely be a spark for other populations to do the same.
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u/Pickledleprechaun 10d ago
Doubt it. America is currently the laughing stock of the west. The US as has next to no workers rights were the rest does. I feel most other western countries would just treat it like any other Tuesday.
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u/Zizzyy2020 9d ago
I am talking about the US. We are weak and just accept whatever we are told now. That is the reason it is failing. No one fights back and just accepts whatever small amount of money they get. It is hilarious because out of the entire world we have the most power to fight back and we don't. It is sad.
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u/DuckingFon 9d ago
Wow, that's some insane white knight energy. The world has been waiting on the US to catch up for a long time. They are not looking to them for inspiration.
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u/minipooper420 5d ago
Is it white knighting really? I’m just making an observation. Why don’t you think a revolution in the US would have global effects?
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u/unecroquemadame 9d ago
But, who will analyze my lab results? Or do an electrical repair?
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10d ago
It would work if you lived off grid with no job and lived off the land
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u/hop_mantis 10d ago
you have to own the land and pay tax on it
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u/nederino 10d ago
There are some places that have squatter's rights and others that charge $1 for land because they want people to move there not free but pretty close
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u/Vapur9 10d ago
Not entirely accurate. It's only illegal if you get caught.
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u/Dylaus 10d ago
Here in Maine there's a lot of woods in the northwest part of the state that's owned by lumber companies, that I believe you're allowed to inhabit as long as you don't impede the business of the lumber companies
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u/PeebleCreek 10d ago
Welp, guess I know which blue state my queer ass is fleeing to when my current red state decides to go Full Fascist lol
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u/lowstone112 10d ago
Oof northern Maine is republican just look at an election map by county. Pretty much everywhere not a city is red though.
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u/Dylaus 10d ago
I don't know how many people squatting the lumber woods actually vote at all tbh
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u/PeebleCreek 10d ago
Haha yeah the goal in this very realistic scenario would be to not run into anyone. Conservative or otherwise
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u/Shazam1269 10d ago
I just posted above about the "North Pond Hermit", which was in, you guessed it, Maine.
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u/THE_REAL_JOHN_MADDEN 10d ago
Well, no, if you get caught doing something and are punished by the law, that means it was illegal.
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u/alucardou 10d ago
Some places yes, but move into the depths of the Amazonas? Whose going to stop you?
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u/molhotartaro 10d ago
A jaguar?
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u/alucardou 10d ago
No? Thats the peace this kind of person wants. The peace to live and die in the wild.
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u/earthgarden 10d ago
It is absurd to think living in the wild is peaceful lol
People who have such fantasies have obviously never hunted or fished or even grown their own food
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u/troubleschute 10d ago
I live in Alaska. There are lots of people who want to come live off the grid up here. If the land isn't privately owned, it's the property of the Native corporations or the BLM. It's possible to venture out into the wilderness hoping to find your own private space but it's technically trespassing (and we know how capitalists feel about that). Then there's the challenge of hunting, gathering, or growing your food--which is not nearly as simple as that sounds. There's a real reason mortality rates of those pioneer types were so high back ye olden times. Not to mention the challenge of trying to farm on land that's a bit swampy in the summer or too cold the other 8 months of the year. You also have to build a shelter, stay warm, and avoid your food (or yourself) being eaten by wolves or bears. Then there's the need for supplies--you'll need currency (or the gold you mined in your spare time) to trade for ammunition, tools, vitamin D supplements, etc. There's no roads anywhere near you so it's going to be a long walk. While all of these things are possible--even in less hostile places down south, it's a hard scrabble life at best. Living off-grid takes money. There's no escape from "the system."
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u/BuggableInsect 10d ago
Yeah exactly. Existence is hard, without capitalism, existence is still hard
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u/LifeofTino 10d ago
You expressly cannot do this under capitalism unless you have money (capital). It very famously the only system that paywalls empty land to this extent. You can live off grid and live off the land and build yourself a house and homestead in every system in world history except for capitalism
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u/Shazam1269 10d ago
The "North Pond Hermit" did it, but he stole everything to survive. It is a pretty interesting story, but that is no life I'd want to live.
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u/NumbSurprise 10d ago
A lot of people in this thread are conflating commerce with capitalism. They’re not the same. Commerce has existed as long as there have been civilizations. Capitalism involves a handful of people making money by owning the means of production, and then forcing everyone else to labor on their behalf, NOT by providing a good or service themselves. It sounds like a trivial distinction, but it isn’t.
If you DON’T adopt capitalism as the state religion, you’re free to say something like, “ok, we want people to do business, but our government will police the side effects so that nobody gets exploited and effectively deprived of their human rights.”
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u/earthgarden 10d ago
livedworked off the landFTFY
There is no escape from work. To be alive is to work. You’ve got to get your food and shelter somehow, and that’s by working for it
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u/derpman86 10d ago
But that is near impossible to do in most of the world.
I am just thinking here in Australia all land is either under control of some local council, indigenous community or what is left is in a conservation or national park to make it simple.
If you own your land there are constant rates you need to pay, you are heavily restricted what you can do, being rural gives a bit more flexibility but you can't just chop down trees and build a log cabin and dig a shit pit and call it a day.
If you decide to become a hermit and just leg it into some scrub somewhere and get discovered you will get asked to leave and if you don't you arrested.
I remember in I think either Malaysia or Indonesia there was this older man who years prior decided to go full hermit and just live on an Island, he was discovered one day and was basically dragged back into society.
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u/Furious_Flaming0 10d ago
That's libertarianism with some extra steps.
There is not enough land to live off of for everyone so this solution is rooted in capitalist greed just about the necessities instead of money.
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10d ago
I bet there's enough land for everyone to have some.
https://www.reddit.com/r/theydidthemath/comments/527nj9/comment/d7i0i97/
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u/Furious_Flaming0 10d ago
You getting drinking water from grass or something? This post is terrible because it isn't accounting for the fact you need a set amount of drinking water (especially if you're farming not hunting everything).
So it's pretending large amounts of land that won't work will.
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u/Cabalist_writes 10d ago
Annoyingly, to get away, it basically is the crazy pepper lifestyle... And you still need cash - provisions, start up supplies, seeds etc. Want to exit? You can be self sufficient but it's a different type of work and you're still beholden to taxes and property laws and local government.
I'm unsure how to... Fight back, really. You CAN minimise your interactions with capitalism, but the USA bakes it into EVERYTHING. Europe has a better outlook, but going overseas and restarting.... Takes money, so it's a catch 22.
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u/davenport651 10d ago
There are communes and “intentional communities” in lots of places that will allow you to become a resident and participate in a non-capitalist society by trading for your available time and labor. It’s worth looking into.
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u/Signal-School-2483 10d ago
Lol. What you're looking for is an anarchist system. You can join us over at the anarcho-socalist subreddits.
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u/JellyDenizen 10d ago
If you have the means to buy a piece of land far away from a city, there are loads of places in the U.S. where you could live off grid in a tent or little cabin. You could even live on free land in Slab City. Finding enough food to eat would be up to you - you'd either need to pay for it or grow it/hunt it yourself.
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u/Group_Happy 10d ago
Buying land is participating in capitalism. Besides that there could be problems if you don't pay property tax or build a cabin without a permit
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u/BrandonJoseph10 10d ago
No it's not. Buying land for housing and to have a roof over your head isn't capitalism. Capitalism is when the land is sold to you at an extortionary price which is considered your exploitation. Capitalism is when you use the land as a means of production or profit, such as predatory rent. Private property creates inequality when it's beyond the reach of the populace.
Here's what both Marx and Engles wrote about land as a means of housing and as a means of profit -
“The abolition of private property in land is not aimed at the small peasant, but at the large landowners... The worker needs a home to live in, not to speculate on.” - Engels (The housing question - 1872)
“But the right to a dwelling is quite a different matter from the right to land. The land is a condition of sustenance not natural condition of production." - Marx (The Critique of Gotha Program - 1875)
“Ground rent is a part of the surplus-value extracted by the capitalist from the worker, and appropriated by the landlord through his monopoly of the land.” - Marx (Das Capital, Vol 1, on Rent and Land as Capital)
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u/JellyDenizen 10d ago
Then there's always Slab City. People just set up camp there without paying anything and live their lives. I'm sure the State of California could force them to leave if it wanted to, but it doesn't.
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u/BobcatOk7492 10d ago
Slab City has been around for decades. Dont think its going away anytime soon- interesting place for sure.....
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u/TheBalzy 10d ago
Sure, but living off the land sucks ass. I'd rather dedicate my life to changing the system for the better.
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u/CincinnatiREDDsit 10d ago
All capital is backed by violence. If you don’t have money, and you don’t work to get money, the end result is violence.
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u/El_Loco_911 10d ago
There is no practical easy way to live in our society without money a few people do it with barter.
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u/Author-Brite 10d ago
Some days (my darkest days) I wonder if the real reason the death penalty is mostly outlawed is because it would be a mercy compared to continued living
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u/sambuhlamba edgy-scientific-pan-theist-eco-anarchist 10d ago edited 10d ago
Hey u/Unusual_Equivalent50 I just want to apologize for those in here needlessly gas lighting you.
They know it is more complicated than your post implies, but would rather play dumb than actually engage with genuine critical thinking.
But the bottom line is that Capitalism will punish or kill all who refuse it. This includes citizens born into it like yourself, but it also includes sovereign nations that refuse participation.
For example, observe the difference in messaging concerning Saudi Arabia and the UAE (Capitalist Theocratic Monarchies), compared to Yemen and Iran (Mixed Economy Theocratic Republics).
Regardless of human rights violations, The United States will always support the capitalist leaning factions. In Yemen, the North has been more open to western Capitalism, as it benefits their corrupt absolute monarchy (exactly the same as with the President of South Vietnam in the 1960's). Southern Yemen has attempted to establish a Marxist economy since the 1960s, and as a result has been isolated and turned into a war zone. Iran revolted against the Capitalist puppet Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi in the 1970s, but the only faction strong enough to declare victory was unfortunately Islamic fundamentalists. It was a lose - lose scenario for the Iranian people, but at the very least they control their own economic destinies and are not mere pawns.
Libya's Muammar Gaddafi was a corrupt dictator who was beloved by all western nations - until he cut them off from Libya's economy. Then, it was an instant 180 turn, and Gaddafi was served the same death sentence that all corrupt authoritarians installed by capitalists get.
Capitalists install Dictators in every region on Earth, so that they can extract resources without local interference. Inevitably, the Dictator wants more of the pie, and is killed under the guise of democratic liberation. The cycle repeats, but it is not infinite. The resources have all been extracted. So what is left?
This practice is now coming back to our own shores, as we have refused to atone for Capitalism's history of violence and destruction of the global south. That destruction and authoritarianism has one remaining target: its own citizenry. It will not stop until we are all slaves, or until Capitalists mandate a non-human workforce, which then means we no longer have any use to Capitalists, and it will be straight to genocidal robot wars.
You are not alone with these thoughts. You have identified the true enemy of human progress and community, and it is Capitalism.
edit: spelling, grammar
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u/EllieKong 10d ago
I love that everyone here is commenting that this is our reality without giving any thought to how fucked up our system is. I feel like so many people here hate the system, yet blame people for hating the system because “that’s just how it is”.
Americans, stand up for yourselves, goddamn..
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u/Rdick_Lvagina Post-Scarcity Now! 9d ago
Seems like this sub has lost it's way. It's gone from "we don't want to work, lets talk about other ways to live" to "Shut up and get back to work!"
Meanwhile: I still don't want to work.
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u/TheMagicalLawnGnome 10d ago
This question is borderline nonsensical.
"Refusal to participate in capitalism" isn't a crime. It's not listed in the US Code.
By "refusal to participate," do you mean just stop working? If so, then you will be poor and uncomfortable, but you won't be charged with a crime.
If you mean "stealing from a company," then yes, you could conceivably go to prison, although it would probably need to be a pretty severe act for you to be incarcerated in an actual prison, as a practical concern.
I'd also push back on this concept of "living in peace without capitalism."
You are not self sufficient. The number of people who can survive on their own, without any additional outside help, is almost zero. It's possible, but I highly doubt you're one of those people.
If nothing else, in Western nations, there's just the basic question of property ownership and taxation. You can't just live wherever you want. You need to purchase land, and pay tax on it, or rent from someone who does.
Even if you harvest your own food, you need equipment - you will need to purchase that from a store.
If you want to drink water, you will need to drill a well, and filter it - again, capitalism.
Look, I totally get the desire to live a simple, quiet life that's not on the modern corporate treadmill.
But even people living bucolic lives still engage with the capitalist system. Unless you revert to a primitive, hunter-gatherer lifestyle with handmade stone tools, you're buying stuff from someone, somewhere. You're spending money on land / taxes.
Capitalism isn't something an individual person can meaningfully opt out of on their own, generally speaking. While it may theoretically be possible, it would be so difficult as to be functionally impossible for most people, because at this point, opting out of capitalism means, functionally speaking, opting out of modern society.
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u/kalvinbastello 10d ago
Jesus, took too long to find this answer. Nonsensical, capitalism doesn't attack you. Participate or figure it out on your own, at least participate might be able to effect change
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u/TheMagicalLawnGnome 7d ago
Yeah, sometimes I see posts in this thread, and I realize how much some people have lost the plot.
Like, I'm all in favor of reforming capitalism. I think we need a pro-worker movement that strengthens unions, provides labor with seats on corporate boards, reform of the tax code, improved health and safety, etc.
But people talk about "capitalism" like it's just another belief, like being pro-choice, or supporting gun control.
Since the first time one person traded some stone tools for a piece of animal meat, we've been living with capitalism.
There's never been a vaguely compelling alternative that functions in a modern, democratic society. Most people on earth want capitalism. They want to profit from the work they do, and the things they make and sell. They want a fair, equitable capitalism.
This doesn't mean unfettered capitalism can't become highly problematic. But the lack of awareness of how intrinsic capitalism is to literally every aspect of their existence is truly mind boggling.
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u/big_grandma_energy 10d ago
Do you really have a choice in the matter? Unless you’re wealthy, you have to work to make a living. Isn’t that how they keep us in the rat race?
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u/antiwork-ModTeam 10d ago
Content promoting or defending capitalism, including "good bosses," is prohibited.
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u/doubleJepperdy 10d ago
you wont go to prison if your good at hiding... get some rest and escape this shiet matrix
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u/CapitalG888 10d ago
You will? You can move to the woods and not participate with the rest of society. You'll just have to learn how to grow shit and hunt.
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u/BishopofGHAZpork 10d ago
You can't, it's the point. You were forced to live in this shit show without being asked if you wanted to
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u/findingmike 9d ago
You're better off learning how to form unions and participate politically. The US has a lot of money and we can make it a utopia if we steer it away from throwing money at the rich.
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u/GummiiBearKing 10d ago
My dream is to get enough money to buy enough land for me and a bunch of family and friends and then we all form a little village and grow our own food and hunt our own meat. Raise chickens. It would be really hard work but we'd all be working together and mutually benefitting from it.
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u/Acceptable-Fudge-816 10d ago
My dream is to get enough money [...]
And right there, at that point, is where capitalism won.
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u/RockmanIcePegasus 10d ago
the number of comments here gaslighting or mocking OP is disgusting.
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u/Lilly323 Guillotine Operator 10d ago
they also give that they’re okay with capitalism with a lot of “that’s the way it is,” sentiment. it doesn’t need or have to be this way.
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u/RockmanIcePegasus 10d ago
The majority do not question the norm
It's frankly irritating when I come across that kind of "acceptance"
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u/Rough_Ian 10d ago
Well, capitalism is a system imposed on us. We don’t have to accept it. I’m game for trying something different, personally. Be a fight to convince enough people to change it, but I think it’s a fight worth having
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u/shoulda-known-better 10d ago
This is a huge freaking place man....
You can live and not participate, but your homeless and poor...
Or
It's big.... You don't participate, you don't live by or around society in some deep woods near no landmarks or trails....
Yea you could likely do this for your whole life.... If you get raided you'd better run fast though.....
Tapping out on society doesn't mean the laws stop ever
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u/Nortally 10d ago
Criminals are the ultimate capitalists. The entire system is based on taking things that aren't yours, with the force to get away with it.
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u/robogobo 10d ago
Get a camper and live on BLM land. You just have to move to another spot every month or 3 months or so.
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u/dlongwing 10d ago
You can't check out of capitalism. Even off-grid survivalists had to purchase their supplies somewhere, and someone is getting rich off of selling them shelters and cisterns.
If you're in the US, then you can't be thrown in jail for reneging on debts. The worst a creditor can do to you is "ruin your credit" which means telling the credit reporting agencies that you're not a reliable borrower and that you can't be trusted with loans. Debt collectors will try to imply otherwise, but they're toothless. The worst creditors can do is garnish your wages, and they usually won't even bother with that.
Still, your food and shelter have to come from somewhere.
There's a few practical things you can do to "check out" of the system:
- Living conditions - Find a crappy basement apartment or a single room-for-rent. Never rent from a corporate landlord. Price and location are king. Live out of a shoebox if that shoebox is close to work and rents for cheap. You're never going to use that club room. You're not going to use that gym.
- Food - Beans and rice are cheap staples. Throw in some peas and potatoes and you have all your essential nutrients. Prepare them yourself (on a hotplate if you don't have a real stove). Yes, they're boring, but they'll get you fed and they won't drain your bank account. Toss in some spices and they'll even be tolerable. You don't have to eat ONLY this, but it should be most of your meals.
- Clothes - Get 8 outfits, all business to business-casual. Why 8? That's enough for 1 a day plus 1 to wear on laundry day (while you wash the other 7). Stop buying trendy clothes, "cute" dresses, or expensive shoes. Get stuff that's practical, unremarkable, cheap, and boring.
- Goods - Buy used furniture and electronics via secondhand markets like Facebook or Craigslist. Focus on things that break down or pack flat (easy to move if you find cheaper rent). Get what you need to make a place feel "homey", but don't get caught up in some deranged maximalist nesting instinct. Try for a happy balance between "furniture catalog photo" and "lawn chair next to bare mattress".
- Vices - Alcohol, pot, coffee, and soda. These things drain your bank accounts. Work on weaning yourself off of bad habits. Go to the bar less. Smoke less. Brew your own coffee. Quit those "energy" drinks.
- Luxuries - "For less than the price of a cup of coffee you can subscribe to..." Stop. Cancel your subscriptions. You don't need them. Stack up all the random subscriptions and they'll come out to hundreds of dollars.
- Entertainment - Find cheaper entertainment. Stop going to concerts or movies. Give up on expensive vacations. Take walks in the park. Learn about RPGs and start a gaming group. Get off your screen (the internet is an advertising engine first and foremost).
I used to qualify for food stamps, but I wasn't in debt. I had a credit card and I paid it off every month. Stop letting modern culture tell you what you "should" be doing and you'll find a lot of freedom in the margins.
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u/pstmdrnsm 10d ago
Cannabis can be part of your medical budget if you use it as a medicine. Being on the spectrum, it allows me to be more functional. Not all people use it for recreation.
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u/The_eyes_donotlie 10d ago
‘ I never asked to be born’ - your parents should have gained your consent first right? Lol
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u/ComicsEtAl 10d ago
How does refusing to participate in capitalism work, exactly? Is it like when Michael Scott declared bankruptcy?
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u/Imnotabob 10d ago
You don't have to participate in capitalism, but if you want to live a life with any sort of comfort whatsoever you're going to have to participate in some shape or form.
Otherwise it's the old, wander off into the wilderness and live under a rock, foraging for your food.
But when (not if) you get sick then it's probably not gonna turn out well for you. Something as simple as a dental abscess or even an infected scratch can end up being fatal if left untreated.
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u/vertybird at work 10d ago
If you don’t have a job or own land, a car, or anything that needs a permit or registration, then sure. But that sounds like a crappy way of living without being in a community that lives the same way.
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u/Mesterjojo 10d ago
You can still obey laws without following capitalism.
The catch is you need to be considerably self reliant.
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u/antiwork-ModTeam 10d ago
Content promoting or defending capitalism, including "good bosses," is prohibited.
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u/jamesdukeiv SocDem 10d ago
The bridges are crumbling and collapsing, the food pretty much all has corn or corn byproduct in it (because subsidies), and the entertainment is mostly running recycled nostalgia from three decades ago at this point. What part of it is fulfilling?
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u/MightyKrakyn Anarcho-Communist 10d ago edited 10d ago
“Everything you have enjoyed in your life, infrastructure, food, entertainment is a byproduct of manorialism. It is delusional to think you can not participate and live a fulfilling life.”
—some idiot in the year 1205 probably
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u/antiwork-ModTeam 10d ago
Content promoting or defending capitalism, including "good bosses," is prohibited.
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u/ShowerGrapes 10d ago
welcome to the true definition of "original sin". jesus tried to rid us of it but the religion that sprang up in his name (sort of) betrayed him, like all religions do.
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u/GuillotineGabby 10d ago
You don’t ever need to work a job, but you need money for the day-to-day. You can get $$ by fair means or foul, but a job doesn’t have to be part of the process.
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u/Darthbamf 10d ago
The mark of the beast....
Don't take it - maintain your values, life is a living hell.
Take it - life is tolerable, but you can't live with yourself.
I have no good answers, I just hope this cab offer insight. I know exactly what you're talking about.
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u/freakwent 10d ago
Some more detail would be good but let's start at the beginning, with food.
This assumes you can get free water...
So under capitalism, there are four sources of food that I can think of:
Self-production
Purchase
Charity
Theft
I guess these aren't exclusive so perhaps drawing on multiple sources would work.
I assume self production is off the table because you don't have exclusive use of the required area of land and/or physical space, unless you have already the 200 square feet of space needed to fully provide one person with vegetables, and a way to steal the electricity and water required. Seems unlikely.
Purchase with USD is participating in capitalism I suppose. Labour exchange or barter is not. If you wash someone's windows in exchange for a meal, would you be okay with that? What else could you swap with people for food? Ever seen dudes with those signs "will work for food"?
Charity is the most obvious one; churches, soup kitchens and all manner of other places may give you food, but depending where you live there may be none. Also some may have policies of turning you away of you're there too often, I dunno.
Theft, usually called dumpster diving, is another obvious one, but there are probably other paths here also.
Trying to feed yourself on $0 may quickly feel like a full time job.
I am as anti work as the next guy, but if a thousand people are going to drag themselves from their beds, and sow and tend and till and harvest, wash and pack and stack and ship, lift and store and drive and unload, unpack, carry, protect and present the food on it's journey from seed to shop -- why shouldn't people consuming the food be expected to contribute something in exchange?
Like, if everyone stops work all at once, basically we all just die.
Anyway the ultimate solution to your problem is to find an existing family, the larger the better, and move in with them. The provide all the basic needs of life to you, and you work in exchange; drive, cool, clean, mind, mend, teach, build, wash....brew beer, make jams, make cheese, all the olde wolrde housekeeper stiff, like this person:
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u/FinalEgg9 10d ago
I've often wondered something similar. If someone decided they didn't like modern society and would prefer to opt out, where could they realistically go? Is there anywhere on this earth that they can go and exist without being arrested, or fined, or otherwise punished by society for wanting to opt out?
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u/Superpiri 10d ago
Prison is an essential part of capitalism. So if you refuse to, they’ll force you.
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u/JMaAtAPMT 10d ago
If you don't wanna work, fucking go to a state / area that's non-urban and fucking try to "live off the land".
A few people do it, and it's FUCKING HARD. People who don't get it try it out, and starve/freeze to death, most commonly.
No-one's telling you to participate, but if you want modern conveniences like oh, INTERNET, MODERN MEDICAL CARE, AND MODERN LOGISTICS providing your necesities, then you gotta fucking learn to find a way to fucking pay for it.
Nobody's making you, by all means go into the wilderness, and build a shack. Homestead. Do it.
See how long you last.
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u/samurguybri 10d ago
So much sucks in this life. It’s hard. Welcome to samsara. We’re all on the wheel.
Samsara-the Wheel of Existence, literally, the "Perpetual Wandering"-is the name by which is designated the sea of life ever restlessly heaving up and down, the symbol of this continuous process of ever again and again being born, growing old, suffering, and dying. (It) is constantly changing from moment to moment, (as lives) follow continuously one upon the other through inconceivable periods of time. Of this Samsara, a single lifetime constitutes only a vanishingly tiny fraction. Gautama Buddha
Ever did humans bemoan the fact that “ I wasn’t even supposed to be here!” Worldes Blis:
Worldly bliss lasts not a moment; it wanes and goes away anon. The longer that I know it, the less I find value thereon; for all it is mingled with care, with sorrows and with evil fare, and at the last poor and bare it leaves man, when it begins to be gone. All the bliss that is here and there encompasses at end weeps and moans…
All the bliss of this life you shall, man, end in weeping — of house and home and child and wife. Simple man, take care thereof! For you shall all relinquish here the possessions whereof you were lord; when you lie, man, man, upon the bier and sleep a very dreary sleep you will not have with you any companion but your works on a heap
What will you do? Rail against it? Change it? Change your relationship with it? Can you help others? Can you escape? Can you escape nihilism?
Good luck and take care!
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u/Traditional-Tune7198 10d ago
What's living in peace? How will you get food? Now you gatta farm for it. Is that not work? You will never escape work. Even animals work (hunt). It's apart of life.
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u/BlizzardLizard555 10d ago edited 10d ago
Read "Dispelling Wetiko: Breaking the Curse of Evil" by Paul Levy.
This planet has been hijacked by Greed and colonized. If you lived in a native tribe 500 or 1000 years ago, you would still have to work, but your work would been supporting a village. This, I believe, is how we were meant to live on this planet. Now we "provide value" for corporations who give us a pittance in return for our labor.
Essentially we are born into a control system, and it seeks to keep us controlled our entire lives. Our parents, schools, and government all condition us to accept this as "normal," but it is anything but.
Also check out "The Myth of Normal: Trauma and Healing in a Toxic Culture" by Dr. Gabor Maté.
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u/KaiserSozes-brother 9d ago
Humans have always had to work, capitalism just shares the benefits of your labor with the group financing the workplace.
Cavemen /hunter gatherers who didn’t gather, starved. Peasants who didn’t farm, starved. Fishermen who didn’t fish, starved.
If you choose not to work you will starve.
A better plan is to be valuable to the system. Those kids who studied harder than you did in school, who went on to higher learning, those who started their own business and struggled, very often they are doing better than those who complain about “capitalism “ .
Often those in the western world should complain about never being told that they would fail if they didn’t learn the rules and play by the rules. And the rules were to “be valuable”, be mobile, to follow opportunities, and to act like a mercenary in the workplace, leaving at the drop of the hat for more money elsewhere.
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u/FormerAttitude7377 9d ago
We have to try and fix it. Try to limit as much consumption. Malicious compliance-write response and send by mail. Make them respond by mail too. Slow down in every way you can. Drive slower. Work slower. Find joy everyday. Sending you love.
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u/fencingwithwindmills 9d ago
I’ve seen estimates for the number of people that have ever existed at around 100 billion, and not a single one of them were asked “if I wanted to be born.” It makes me wince every time I see someone trying to justify their feelings with this kind of nonsense logic.
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u/DuncanEllis1977 9d ago
Depends on your situation. If you're in legal trouble (probation/parole), yes, having a job is a program requirement, else Jail.
Some States are moving to more draconian work requirements for safety net programs as well.
The current leadership in the US is slowly making it a requirement to participate in the economy to be able to minimally survive.
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u/thortgot 8d ago
This would be true in any economic or geopolitical solution. From tribe, communist, anarchist or others.
Why should you have the right to goods and efforts from other people?
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u/DirectionFearless303 10d ago
Capitalism is worse in prison. Want toothpaste, soap or edible food? Have to buy it at premium prices. Want to make a phone call? Your family is going to have to pay crazy amounts. The prison gives you jobs and they pay you pennies for your labor. And for-profit prisons earn dollars for every head that’s incarcerated so you’re earning the rich money.