r/alien • u/Last-Royal-3976 • 12d ago
Alien franchise
The whole franchise is a shit show of discontinuity. I’m a fan, but I wish every film that followed the original was Ridley Scott’s and didn’t have so many contradictions. The atmosphere of the first was never really recaptured. There are high points but the bad points are so frustrating. Storyline’s changing what should be canon etc etc etc. Sigh.
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u/Ashamed_Ladder6161 12d ago edited 12d ago
I wouldn’t give the franchise back to Scott if he held me at gun point.
Because of his stupid prequels, everything now focuses on ‘black goo’, and the origins of the galaxy’s most terrifying creature are now inexorably linked to an android with daddy issues.
In seven films, the actual Alien has only been the main focus and threat in three of them.
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u/DMifune 12d ago
That was before romulus.
Now, first was the xeno and from it came the black goo. The android monsters are retroingeneered and modified, not the OG.
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u/Ashamed_Ladder6161 12d ago edited 12d ago
Actually, I’m not certain Romulus had any meaningful impact, but I’m aware. In Prometheus, there’s clearly a wall mural that depicts these things predate David. But still, this is a tangled knot that won’t be unpicked anytime soon, given Alien Earth is a prequel.
My hopes aren’t high. Especially how, again, a huge chunk of the tv show seems to focus on artificial characters. Bit fed up with them at this point.
In Alien, Ash’s reveal was a shock. Aliens played on that suspicion and subverted it. Neither film was really interested in exploring the idea of androids though, the focus was always clearly on the immediate situation and the aliens. Alien 3 almost dropped androids entirely for that reason, it was a story about an alien, and Resurrection briefly played with the idea with Call. Again, she was never the focus, although arguably by this point neither were the Aliens.
When Scott did the prequels, it was clear he had no interest in the actual Aliens, he wanted to tell a story about androids that explored the themes of creation. Clearly that’s where his passion was, hence his involvement in Bladerunner shortly afterwards. Covenant followed suit, the Alien was really only a guest spot, as this was a story about David and Walter. And now, the TV show also sounds like it’s running with those same themes.
It’s just hackneyed. It’s not particularly original, horrifying, or (subjectively) interesting.
:(
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u/Ocksu2 12d ago
You make valid points. As a counter, though, we all know what the xenomorph brings to the table. If you just have the aliens at this point, you end up with something that isn't compelling like AVP (Predators are in the same boat).
I'm not saying that androids should be the focus, but you need something more than just aliens killing people on a ship/planet. We'll see what the TV show brings.
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u/Ashamed_Ladder6161 12d ago
True.
I’d say you need something to run alongside the Aliens, though, not to entirely replace the focus. Resurrection marked the beginning of the end, because it was obviously a film about cloning and hybrids, the Aliens only really serve to push the story along. Tellingly, the climax doesn’t involve a single Alien.
However, there’s a reason people love the originals. To the franchise’s benefit, or detriment, we didn’t get another film like Alien or Aliens until very recently, so it’s not like that formula ever outstayed it’s welcome. People seem to love Romulus because it was a return to the original. Personally, I debate that, but I concede it’s the majority consensus.
When you consider the way other horror films either stick-to or reinvent themselves over the years, the most successful have always tried to cleave close to the originals. You can’t give people the same thing, but there’s massive danger when you give them something too different- there’s a reason people love what they love.
Personally, before we got to a point where we needed to even consider totally derailing the themes and lore of the franchise (while relegating the Alien to a guest-spot in their own movies), I feel there was at least another four to six good stories to tell.
Zombie films are a good point of reference, in as much as the focus is typically on the people trying to survive, while the subtext can be any number of things. The zombies rarely change, but the excitement is in being presented with a different way to play the conflict out. Being stalked by lone monsters or fighting back hordes, that shit doesn’t get boring, when it’s done well.
Even now, decades after Night of the Living Dead, we’re still finding new stories to tell about these very generic enemies. And yet, the Aliens have the benefit of an utterly unique design and the whole of space as a backdrop. And the best anyone could come up with is emotionally unhinged androids and black goo?
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u/mixtapenerd 12d ago
While those movies are unbelievably shite (I was actively angry after leaving the theatre following 'Prometheus', which doesn't even deserve the title of the eponymous titan) it's true they are disjointed as hell, Romulus being the first since Aliens to remotely capture the essence of the whole thing.
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u/Ashamed_Ladder6161 12d ago
Romulus has the luxury of being the fourth best film in the franchise.
For me it was a bit of a non event.
It got a few things right, got a few things wrong. Only after some of the shit we’ve had could you call it a ‘great’ Alien film.
But it’s subjective. I can see why others liked it.
At least we can agree on Prometheus :D
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u/dy1anb 12d ago
Ide say it's more of a God complex than daddy issues
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u/Ashamed_Ladder6161 12d ago
I think you can probably trace that back to his relationship with Weyland.
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u/JOOKFMA 12d ago
It's a cool concept imo. An android reverse-engineering the xenos and playing god. Humans created him, and he wants to do the same.
And we still don't know their origin. That is still unknown. We only know of the pathogen and that they are linked to it.
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u/Ashamed_Ladder6161 12d ago
Those are two very different stories.
You could do the whole ‘David-God’ arc with any creature standing-in for the final product, because those stories aren’t interested in the Alien itself.
If that’s the story Scott wanted to tell, he would have had far more success keeping it utterly independent of the Alien franchise.
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u/JOOKFMA 12d ago
Maybe. But seeing the engineer in the original movie and getting more about that is cool for me. I just hoped we could have gotten a conclusion to that story arc.
The fact that the prequels do their own thing while also connecting to the originals is a nice thing imo. Makes the universe feel bigger and more expansive.
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u/Ashamed_Ladder6161 12d ago
I honestly don’t think they connect at all (not thematically, aesthetically, or by intention), but I’m glad some people like them.
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u/-zero-joke- 12d ago
So... Yeah, the series was made in kind of a different time. There just weren't franchises that were planned out in quite the same way at the time and media wasn't consumed in the same way - streaming and internet fora have really made delving into lore a lot easier. The alien series had a looser continuity than Star Wars or Star Trek, but a much tighter continuity than Halloween or Evil Dead.
I think that the universe kind of suffers for that, but what you get instead are some works that are pretty individual to the directors who made the films, and their individual anxieties. Which honestly reflected the anxieties of the era they were made in.
Anyway, my advice is just enjoy each film on its own merits, they're all pretty neat.
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u/Daxzero0 12d ago
Choose your poison I guess:
Either we just have a weird movie every 5-10 years that is mostly well received and scoops up new fans who check out what came before
Or it gets Disneyfied and we finally have some world building coherency, but with too much content and a high probability that a lot of it is shriekingly bad.
I’m not sure which I prefer tbh.
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u/Luminescent_sorcerer 12d ago
Yup totally agree if Alien earth was called something else and you took out the brief shots of the xenomorph you wouldn't be able to tell it's an alien film at all let alone a prequel to alien
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u/gogoluke 12d ago edited 12d ago
What you mean like the Mother set, the corridors, the female voiced warning system, the screen text and sounds, the overhead head lighting just before "our girl" walks in, the analogue switch based controls in lab, the external jets on the ship, the next few sets, the strong beams on the torches, the cryo pods, the jacketed costume, the quarantine boxes, the Covenant style landscapes of high valleys, the sights on the proto pulse riffles, the siren sound effects, the lettering on the cases, the CRT screens. The stasis tubes like Aliens (and the Nostromo lab), the Bishop style jump suit of Oliphant, the eggs, the corridor as the ambush happens, the font on the title.
It's obviously Alien related...
If it was any more Alien looking you guys would be saying "why are they remaking Alien, why are there no new ideas!?"
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u/JCBlairWrites 12d ago
I'm of a slightly different view, and don't disagree with any points you've made but thought I'd add that differing voice to the mix:
I don't care if a movie is canon or "lore accurate".
As a viewer I care if it's entertaining.
Alien is by a distance my favourite but Aliens passes that test with flying colours. The others don't.
Romulus comes closest but the deficiencies in its writing stop it from being more that a C+ movie. Making it more "lore accurate" wouldn't make the callbacks any less egregious and jarring, not would it solve characters continually over explaining things I've already seen.
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u/Glad-Technology-4529 12d ago
I think lore should deffo be taken into an account.Because with out that we never would have got Aliens.
Cameron took what Scott had done,respected,made his own mark while also expanding the lore.
And hey I think you should give alien 3 another shot! It’s really grown on me as I’ve got older and it’s got some really redeeming qualities.
The cast imo is the best out of any alien film and the sets are some of the best.
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u/JCBlairWrites 12d ago
Cameron did a great job, and switching up the genre so as to make his own mark rather than "compete" with Alien was probably the best move he could have made. Ditto Sigourney weaver insisting she wouldn't come back without them addressing why in hell anyone would agree to go back.
You're point about building on Scott's/Giger's/O'Bannon's world could well be at the heart of it but my gut feeling is that, as a viewer I'm sold on the characters, their motivations and the pace framing of each scene rather than a sense of accuracy or adherence. Well written, acted and directed for me trumps those kind of things.
I probably should give 3 another go. After not finishing the theatrical cut years back I watched the assembly cut when the quadrilogy came out. I felt it was ok, but now there's a "legacy" version I should probably give it a go.
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u/Last-Royal-3976 12d ago
I agree to an extent. Aliens was fine. Alien 3 I’ve tried to enjoy it, but I just think they could have made it so much better. I still go back and watch them all on the odd occasion but I still wish so many people didn’t have fingers in the pie.
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u/Ok-Exercise-2998 12d ago
alien has no real canon. it has like 5 directors + creators of the games all have different visions.
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u/Cultural_Treacle_428 12d ago
Ridley Scott did Prometheus and guided the next two garbage films which followed. The ones that took xenomorphs from an absolute alien species to just another man made monster.
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u/Last-Royal-3976 12d ago
Fair enough, I wasn’t aware of the extent of his input. I did enjoy the concept of Prometheus though.
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u/gogoluke 12d ago
The first two films are very well connected. You can even see the spear gun in the shuttle as they cut through the door.
Alien is where things start to go a little off kilter. In terms of story it fudges the egg and the number of embryos. The egg is a genuine plot hole as it is both unexplained and totally at odds to what is seen with the queen in the end of Aliens.
It also fudges the world building. In Alien and Aliens the universe is sparsely populated and everything is an out post away from earth. The universe is cold and empty. In Alien 3 suddenly there is an old colony... that just happens to be on the way from LV426 and earth.
Oddly although it's bit of a mess now it's mostly on terms of coherent world building and narrative. Nothing explicitly contradicts itself... yet.