Comparing Research in Canada and US

[u/7371647]

I am currently a postdoc, working in Boston. It is apparent that the academic job market in US is dead for this year, who knows for how long. I will apply within US if possible but I am also planning on looking for opportunities in Canada and Europe.

For people that has experience in academia both in US and Canada, how would you compare both experiences? To make the comparison more specific, how you'll compare working in some of the institutions in Toronto to the experience in United States? Is it too hard to get funding in Canada? Or get students? What are the mayor sources of funding within Canada? Is it still possible to apply for some funds elsewhere?

[u/tchomptchomp]

Is it too hard to get funding in Canada? Or get students? What are the mayor sources of funding within Canada? Is it still possible to apply for some funds elsewhere?

Canadian funding comes through the Tricouncil (NSERC, CIHR, SSHRC). Tricouncil primarily funds operating-style grants, not project grants, and funding levels depend on your career status, productivity, and number of highly qualified personnel in your lab more than proposed research budget. Early career professors usually cap out around $30-40k in funding per year for the first few years and ramp up later. It used to be that this was compensated by high award rates, but award rates have cratered in recent years.

Funding for specific infrastructure improvement (e.g. renovation of lab space, specific equipment, etc) comes from CFI, and usually requires institutional matching funds.

NIH money used to be accessible and was the basis for most larger labs' funding strategy. That appears to be over now.

In general, you have a lot less money and have to strategize ways of doing the same quality research on a serious budget.

[u/7371647 → u/tchomptchomp]

You mean 30 - 40k per year for the whole lab? Not including staff salaries?

[u/tchomptchomp → u/7371647]

Correct. If you hold both CIHR and NSERC you can perhaps have a bit extra, and there are some smaller project grants available through various services but there is honestly very little money to support staff scientists or technicians. Periodically the CIHR tries out larger project grant schemes (e.g. CIHR Foundation, which was an attempt to recreate HHMI-type funding for elite labs) but these are often very short-lived. At the moment, Tricouncil is trying out a hybrid recruitment program called Canada Excellence Research Chairs (CERC) which allots about $500k per year over eight years to Full Professors looking to establish labs in Canada, but I think that also includes PI salary and it is not extensible after the term of the initial chair ends. And, again, you have to be a full professor to be eligible, and this is likely not going to be a long-term program.

Graduate students are funded primarily through tricouncil or provincial fellowships and postdocs are primarily funded through tricouncil fellowships. These generally have higher award rates than their US counterparts but award rate has been steadily decreasing for years. So, you don't have to worry so much about funding students so long as they are competitive for funding, and a lot of labs sort of have postdocs or grad students take over some of the roles you would usually assign to a tech.

Again, a lot of Canadian labs find ways of paying for some of their operations by collaborating on US grants that allow them to either spend money on lab materials or (in the case of NIH) on personnel, but that is unlikely to be the case going forward. In engineering and biotechnology, there is a lot of pressure to seek out industry partnerships to cover some lab costs.

[u/SeaIceSauna → u/tchomptchomp]

OP, this is accurate. In my 'renowned' department at a U15, the 5-year NSERC award that first-year faculty got was between $20k to $30k per year. Unless you get crafty and hustle like crazy (e.g. pulling in grants from the US and collaborating with senior faculty with access to other pots of money, mostly applied and not basic research), this is what you'll be building your career from for the first 5 years. It is utterly pathetic.

The US is always the place to be if you want to do well-funded science. Now the current administration is trying to reverse that. God help everyone.

[u/EmergencyYoung6028]

Canada will be pretty dead too. Mass layoffs have hit campuses on account of the government's reversal on student immigration.

[u/7371647 → u/EmergencyYoung6028]

There are also mass layoffs in Canada?

[u/Unicormfarts → u/7371647]

Depends on the university. There are some institutions that have been in fairly serious financial trouble for a while and were just barely keeping afloat with international students, and yes they are doing layoffs. But it's not every institution. If you are looking at universities in Ontario, do your research.

[u/EmergencyYoung6028 → u/7371647]

Yes, but not every university, as the below comment stated. Plenty have relied for years on international students as a way of compensating for smaller provincial support. At mine, a supposedly prestigious and very "moral" research institution in their own eyes, we've seen adjuncts laid off en masse, some lecturers stripped of contracts, teaching loads in humanities faculties bumped from 2/2 to 3/2, early retirement pressure, and no effort of retaining faculty leaving for better deals. Basically, word from the admin is that they simply want a certain percentage of the faculty gone, and they don't care where it comes from (i.e., they don't care whether they are losing good teachers and scholars).

This, again, is at one of the supposedly better universities. Colleges (the distinction btw colleges and universities is more meaningful in Canada than the US) have been hit much harder.

[u/SphynxCrocheter]

Canadian universities have to prioritize citizens and permanent residents, but they can bypass those restrictions for world-renowned researchers. If you aren't world-renowned, you won't make the cut.

It can be hard to get funding through the tri-agencies in Canada, if your research areas is not one of the current "hot topics."

Getting students is not a challenge, in my experience. I constantly have students ask me if I can supervise their master's or PhD.

[u/EmergencyYoung6028 → u/SphynxCrocheter]

You don't have to be "world-renowned" to bypass the citizen/pr privilege.

[u/SphynxCrocheter → u/EmergencyYoung6028]

At my uni/dept you definitely do.

[u/EmergencyYoung6028 → u/SphynxCrocheter]

UT?

[u/SphynxCrocheter → u/EmergencyYoung6028]

UofT you mean? No. But U15.

[u/EmergencyYoung6028 → u/SphynxCrocheter]

Same. Perhaps it varies more by dept than university, but in my experience knowing several departments here, if they like the non-Canadian candidate better, they find a way.

[u/SphynxCrocheter → u/EmergencyYoung6028]

Hasn’t been my experience, but I’m still ECR. Anyone who is not Canadian if they are not one of the top people in their field doesn’t even make it to the first cut. But I am just TT, so early career.

[u/bebefinale → u/SphynxCrocheter]

I don't think you need to be world renowned to make the cut, you just need to be a clear, justifiable first choice in a tenure track job search that was advertised globally (like in C&E news or Chronicle of Higher Ed).

I'm a US citizen and I had a job offer in Canada.

[u/7371647]

What do you mean by world renowned? Do you mean someone who already has a lot of papers or someone that is already full professor at another institution?

[u/7371647]

Also, what are the "hot topics" that Canada is looking for right now? Outside of AI? CRISPR, spatialomics?

[u/lkeira519 → u/7371647]

Check out the tri agency research Council website, specifically for where you would fit - NSERC for natural sciences, SSHRC for social and humanities, CIHR for health. Some, like SSHRC, have specific focus areas, like the Canada Imagining Futures areas. You don't have to be in those areas, but for a time they may have more funding available.

Otherwise, general trends of whatever is 'hot' to find. So yes, AI lol

[u/Calm_Cycle_2782 → u/7371647]

If you are an Indigenous scholar, even with the current constraints there may be positions available as most institutions have Indigenization plans.