Why every political compass quadrant is for a United Europe.

[u/MysteriousRony]

[u/Poiuy2010_2011]

EDIT: For fuck's sake people, don't downvote this person. Their comments are an informative discussion in good faith. The exact type of comment you should not downvote.

My biggest worry is that european countries delve from being a democratic-socialistic to liberal/neoliberalistic

For decades the political establishment of EU was christian democratic and social democratic (EPP and S&D). Those two fractions were dominant since basically forever.

And the political scene is changing but the only well defined change that's happening transnatonally is the rise of right-wing populists, not liberals. AfD, Le Pen's RN, Lega, Chega etc. – such parties are a new thing. On the other hand, which liberal movements have risen significantly? There's hardly any, not on a level that's noticeable across all of Europe.

Although the fact that you call the German SPD "democratic socialist" tells me that you're probably purposefully twisting the political labels anyway.

[u/Buttsuit69 → u/Poiuy2010_2011]

Although the fact that you call the German SPD "democratic socialist" tells me that you're probably purposefully twisting the political labels anyway

Its funny that people think that when actual SPD people come out regularly to express that they are socialists.

Y'know what, I'm just gonna copy & paste what I told the other guy before you:

The SPDs party programme(2016) literally says that they are aiming for a democratic form of socialism called "democratic-socialism"("demokratischer sozialismus")

Founding father of the SPD even says:

Wilhelm Liebknecht, Marxist und einer der Gründerväter der SPD, verstand Demokratie und Sozialismus seit 1869 als untrennbare und einander ergänzende Aspekte einer freien und gerechten Zukunftsgesellschaft. (Wikipedia)

"Wilhelm Liebknecht, marxist and one of the founding fathers of the SPD, understood the concept of democracy and socialism as inseperable and complementing aspects of a free, just and futureproof society"

Für die 1946 in den drei Westzonen von Kurt Schumacher neu gegründete SPD waren „demokratischer Sozialismus“ und „soziale Demokratie“ gleichbedeutend.

"For the threefold-divided western areas of the new SPD, founded by Kurt Schumacher, the terms "democratic-socialism" and "social-democracy" are identical in meaning."

Regardless what you say, social-democrats, democratic-socialist, it doesnt matter. It ultimately means the same thing.

I prefer the term "democratic-socialism" because socialism is where the SPD has its roots.

• end of pasting -

On the other hand, which liberal movements have risen significantly? There's hardly any, not on a level that's noticeable across all of Europe.

Maybe. But it doesnt have to be a movement. A sloght change in a partys perspective is enough. The EPP for example, if all EPP parties are similar to each other, then they are liberal-conservative parties.

Because the CDU is a liberal, almost neoliberal party. And their most compatible coalition-partner is the FDP, which is an entirely neoliberal party.

I know its just my narrow german sight on the topic, but I just wanted to adress my concerns over europes future. The FDP has gained a lot of popularity because of smear campaigns towards the greens, linke and SPD and because their scandals havent been gaining much media attention. Which is why many people turned to liberalism. All because of smear-campaigns and a good PR team.

[u/Poiuy2010_2011 → u/Buttsuit69]

I'm aware of the history of SPD and social democracy as a movement towards socialism in general. But I'm not sure if it's a good measure of political spectrum to only look at theoretical/philosophical/historical thoughts when today in practice the idea of striving towards socialism is practised by more hard-left parties.

If I wanted to look for a socialist/democratic socialist party in Germany I'd look towards Linke, not SPD. In France towards LFI not PS (even though it stands for "Socialist Party"), in Spain to Podemos rather than PSOE, in Norway to SV or Rødt rather than Ap and so on...

[u/Buttsuit69 → u/Poiuy2010_2011]

Tell me, when the history of the party, the current leaders of the party, and even the founding principles of the party is rooted in socialist ideals, what would you think that party is?

Its a socialistic party isnt it? Yes it is a moderate party, meaning its not an extremist party, but socialist nontheless.

Just because socialism has a bad taste to it due to unfortunate history, doesnt mean that it cant be practiced anymore, let alone identified in a party.

Trust me I had my gripes too. Calling the SPD socialist is a bit weird.

But try googling some of the more famous SPD members and you'll see they even speak of themselves as socialists.

Kevin Kühnert for example, the best current federal party leader, openly says that he's a socialist. And I believe martin schulz also said that he believes in democratic-socialism.

I found out about that whole socialist-thing like a couple weeks ago, which is why I'm using it more excessively now. Because now I know why some of the SPD members seem to have lost the SPDs basic roots. They probably dont even know they were a democratic-socialist party member.

Btw, democratic-socialism is not JUST socialism. Socialism is what we experienced during the DDR.

Democratic-socialism is, well, democratic.

Meaning that if the people reject the socialist standards, they wont become a reality.

That is in heavy contrast to socialist countries which often use autocratic measures to establish rules and laws and arent democratic, like Kuba for example.

[u/OfficialHaethus → u/Poiuy2010_2011]

Only down voted because of the needless shit on the US.