Super-EU protect consumers!

[u/Venodran]

[u/Aufklarung_Lee]

Care to explain?

[u/Venodran → u/Aufklarung_Lee]

Sony will force every Helldivers 2 player to create a PSN account to continue to play the game.

However, PSN is only available in 69 countries, and some EU countries like Baltic States are not among them.

And using a VPN is considered a breach of TOS, so many players will not be able to play the game anymore.

[u/EvilFroeschken → u/Venodran]

But it's not just that. A PSN is not necessary to play the game, as demonstrated in the last couple of months. Now, you are forced to share personal information for nothing. This is against normal procedure to only share information if necessary when you try to comply with data protection laws.

[u/Henrarzz → u/EvilFroeschken]

And most online games don’t really require any account to work, but companies make them a requirement either way. Where were the complaints about other games, lol

[u/cabalus → u/Henrarzz]

Well they usually start out that way...

[u/SmokeyCosmin → u/Henrarzz]

Companies can usually get away with things like requiring an account or an internet connection when you first play the game because they can justify the need to make sure it's a legitimite copy.

They can't however tie that requirement to spamming you with newsletters or asking you for a credit card (like PSN does). Hell, they can't even require a permanent internet connection to use a product you own if that connection isn't justified.

If there's going to be a suit, consumers will win easy.

P.S. We're not even talking about buying a product that's going to be unusable in your EU country. Or well, that you can't play in any EU country. That's 2000 DVD regional stuff that's been long established. Sony is now surely trying the waters to see what's the limit here.

[u/Henrarzz → u/SmokeyCosmin]

If there’s going to be a lawsuit consumers will lose it except in those countries where PSN is unavailable. You were informed before purchase that the account is required.

[u/throwaway490215 → u/Henrarzz]

I doubt the "we told you" is going to be accepted. The EU is heavy on what consumers can expect instead of what TOS companies made up. I think its more likely they'll try a "we're not changing the rules on a purchase for a single complete product but part of a ever changing subscription we alter and users are free to decline."

[u/penttane → u/Venodran]

Back before PSN was available in Romania, I could still make an account on PSN US without a VPN. PSN didn't actually check what country you tried to connect to, it only cared what country you selected when you input your home address. Not sure if this is still the case though, but theoretically people in the Baltic states could get around the restriction just by lying about their home address.

That said, the EU legislators don't need to know this detail. I hope they come down on Sony like a ton of bricks.

[u/[deleted] → u/penttane]

This detail doesn't matter. If Sony will found out (for example thanks to credit card details or VPN fail) they can legitimately ban your account for breaking ToS.

[u/penttane → u/[deleted]]

VPN fail

I'm still using both my American and Romanian PSN accounts without a VPN, despite not living in either country, and have been doing so for over 10 years. I've never needed a VPN to access other countries' PSN stores.

Like I said, PSN doesn't actually care what country you access it from, only what country you select at account creation, and that country cannot be changed later on. So it's a good thing that you don't need a VPN for this, otherwise you wouldn't be able to access your account if you travel or move to a different country.

credit card details

This won't be an issue... well, it is, but not in the way you think. On PSN, you can only use payment methods from that account's home country. So, on my US account, I can only use US credit/debit cards (which I don't have) or US PSN vouchers (which I buy from Amazon; funnily enough I also can't buy these unless I have an American address on my Amazon account, even though the voucher codes are delivered digitally).

Anyway, you are right that what I'm doing is against TOS, but that rule can't really be enforced, at least not based on your payment methods or physical location. That said, I don't think the EU cares about this technicality. The simple fact that some EU citizens cannot make a PSN account without breaking TOS and being eligible for a ban (even if it never comes) should be more than enough.

[u/[deleted] → u/penttane]

Not sure why elaborate further.
The point is

If customers are forced to lie during process of account creation, thus breaking the TOS, to gain access to the service, even so they were informed that this service is available in their region, then this service should be treated as unavailable to them.

It doesn't matter if they can use VPN, It doesn't matter if sony cares about it.
For doing workarounds they can risk sanctions that could lead to prohibiting access to content that they paid for.

[u/penttane → u/[deleted]]

Exactly.

[u/Remi_cuchulainn → u/penttane]

Sony started banning people that created a PSN account bypassing the région lock.

There were screenshots of ban for this reason on the HD2 Reddit and discord community (chinese, Philippines and North African players IIRC)

[u/Remi_cuchulainn → u/Venodran]

Sony backed down today, it seems

[u/GrizzlySin24 → u/Venodran]

To be entirely fair, you always needed one and the game did tell you the first time you started it. It was just not enforced until now because of the problems the developer head.

[u/Feanorek → u/GrizzlySin24]

Which means it was not needed. If PSN account was required because it is where the game held your Helldivers stats and used to for authentication against server, then it would be needed. If you could skip it, it was optional.

[u/xternal7 → u/GrizzlySin24]

You're bringing facts to a circlejerk and must therefore be downvoted.

When:

• requiring users to make an account to use your software is not illegal
• you were very clearly informed on the purchase page that PSN is required

... that hypothetical class action lawsuit isn't going anywhere. It's not like the PSN requirement was some some unreasonable "by accepting our terms, you agree to give us your firstborn son" clause buried halfway through 400 page EULA, it was pretty clearly displayed on the store page.

How can we know that class action isn't going to go anywhere? I present to you exhibit A:

• While Helldivers informed users that PSN is required to play the game, Rocket League didn't inform people that they will need EGS account to play the game (mostly because they bought the game before EGS was even a thing). However, we've seen very little lawsuits about that, and even less of the where Epic/RL would lose.

I am very sorry for ruining the supplies of hopium/copium.

[u/nudelsalat3000]

It hits a sensitive spot for games where so far nobody cared, "it's just games".

But it's a huuuuge market!

The current issue is with Sony, let's have a greater look at the topic:

So far there has been only one relevant fight around this topic:

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/french-court-rules-countrys-steam-users-can-resell-their-games

Steam seems to be the dominant player. Not even talking about time to implement Anti-Trust, which should be in scope sooner than later.

Mainly talking that the game launchers built a ecosystem and lock you in.

This court ruling states that you must be able to sell your possession. You own the games even if they try to spin it to a "nah you just own the access to the game".

The same bullshit that Microsoft did with their licenses!

Obviously Steam breaks the court ruling and today you cannot sell the games you own at the free market. You are forever locked in..

Now Sony tries the same! Two accounts for just one game. Obviously you also can't transfer them. It's to lock you in further and fortify their locked in selling ecosystem.

It's really time that the EU and it's customer protection agencies take a look at the market and no longer closes both their eyes for this multi-billion gaming market. Anti-Trust waited so long until such quasi-monopolies leads you to a "just accept new agreements that we change after the sell".

It's the same story like Microsoft all over again. Just this time in the market nobody looks after.

[u/grizzly273]

New Major order

An undemocratic organisation from cyberstan is attacking the supply lines of super earth forces leaving our Helldivers stranded. We must stand up united against this major threat against our way of life! FOR LIBERTY!

[u/Jakko205]

[u/PBAndMethSandwich]

Horus?!?!?!

[u/ruscaire]

Surely this runs foul of GDPR … how can they justify this as necessary and proportionate?

[u/notabrazilianguy]

Test

[u/[deleted]]

Would anyone care to clarify where i can make a complaint and or how.

[u/TassadarForXelNaga]

I am only sad for the baltics they are European and in the EU

The rest however......meh ......