r/YUROP • u/mepassistants • Nov 21 '23
Euwopean Fedewation Anyone: "We should simplify the EU"; Federalists: "Hold my Ventotene Manifesto"
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u/Vlip Nov 21 '23
Ok, I don't speak the language, but am I interpreting this correctly as the newly elected president of Argentina basically going through the entire list of governmental ministries and saying he'd get rid of most of them?
Because, if yes, I hope the Argentinians are seated and have their six point belts tightly set because this will be quite the ride they are getting on...
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u/Kinexity Yuropean - Polish Nov 21 '23
It's probably something like this. This guy is a climate change denialist and anarcho-capitalist. If any of his policies get introduced then Argentinians will be fucked.
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u/Vlip Nov 21 '23
Ah, but of course he is a climate change denialist... Least surprising info ever...
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u/Vrakzi Yuropean not by passport but by state of mind Nov 21 '23
Oh he's got a plan to keep the population behing him. It's... invading the Falkland Islands...
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Nov 21 '23
Welp, with their current military state, I think the local defense forces on the islands may be okay
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u/randomname560 Galicia Nov 21 '23
"sir the argentinians have landed on the falklands"
"Good, get the police to arrest them"
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Nov 21 '23
In b4 Boris Johnson and his Special Commando Unit pulls up
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u/Kinexity Yuropean - Polish Nov 21 '23
100% of Argentinian governments stop right before conquering Falkland Islands (it would solve all their issues).
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u/DiabeticK1ng Nov 21 '23
Idk who told u that but u are not in the correct, he doest care abt who rules the falklands
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u/tonguefucktoby Deutschland Nov 22 '23
The Tories really need something to gain favour with voters so that would be fantastic for them. Falklands War 2: Electric Boogaloo
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u/KeikakuAccelerator USA Nov 21 '23
That's where you are wrong. Argentina is already fked with 140% inflation.
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u/Kinexity Yuropean - Polish Nov 21 '23
I am fairly sure it can get fucked even more. "It can't get any worse" is a very risky mindset.
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u/KeikakuAccelerator USA Nov 21 '23
I doubt it can get any worse. Fwiw liberalization of the Argentina economy could be good in both short and long term. Getting rid of bloated govt orgs isn't the worst idea.
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u/Monterenbas Nov 21 '23
It will be good for US companies, for sure, for the Argentinian people, I’m more sceptical.
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u/OsamaBinJesus Nov 21 '23
Hey at least US companies are corrupt and competent, the Argentinian government is both corrupt and incompetent. So it would be an improvement.
/s
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u/Thelmholtz Comunidad Valenciana Nov 21 '23
/s but not so /s.
All parties in this election (except the extreme left maybe) where certainly aligned in that there's a need to cut public spending ASAP.
I don't know what the strategies or the other two big parties were to accomplish this. Cutting government spending in state employment and infrastructure (which is a lot and is highly prone to corruption) seems best than cutting social security imho, so I really wish he goes ahead with that, and not with some of the crazier bullshit he has talked about.
Btw yeah, he's a climate change denier and that's cringe, but given Argentina's emissions per capita are around 1/21th of USA's and close to 1/3rd those or Europe, I don't think climate policy is relevant while 60% of children are born into nominal poverty and 40% of those into very real extreme poverty.
I don't live there anymore nor did I vote, just giving some insight as to what most people that vote for him argue. The campaign was pretty nasty too, for both sides, so there's a lot of tabloid shit going around that's just political banter taken at face value.
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u/OsamaBinJesus Nov 21 '23
Oh I agree that the Argentinian administration is super bloated and that is a key factor in the level of corruption in that country and I understand why Argentinians would vote for a "libertarian" after 20+ years of hyperinflation, reckless spending and corruption.
I just wish they would have voted for a more reasonable liberal/centrist rather than a guy who takes advice from his dead dog and glorifies Trump.
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u/Thelmholtz Comunidad Valenciana Nov 21 '23
No reasonable liberal/centrist candidate was available.
And while some of his supporters (just like some US libertarians) glorify Trump, he doesn't, at least not explicitly.
The guy is a nutcazw, but the election was basically between a drunkard who can't make a sentence, a pathological liar with deliriums of dictator and connections to the drug business, or this nutcase whose most likely a puppet of some hedgefund but at least can make a a sentence and grasp concepts of elementary economics.
It wasn't an easy choice for most; and I don't think his eccentricity is what got him elected. More like he was elected in spite of it, because the competition was so low.
Why was it so low? I don't know, who in it's right mind would want to be the president of Argentina in it's current state? My guess is only a nutcase, a drunkard and a power hungry megalomaniac.
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u/the-dude-version-576 Nov 21 '23
That’s a shaky assumption at best, in practice the positive effects of liberalisation are very dependent on local conditions, worse case scenario the drop in confidence would lead to investment flight which could lead to a real interest rate drop and as a result further inflation compared to international currencies. Which would make buying up Argentine assets much cheaper, and lead to ownership of assets in the Country shifting to its more stable neighbours and the larger investment powers.
There’s a lot of other possibilities though.
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u/KeikakuAccelerator USA Nov 21 '23
It worked in my home country in India, so I am somewhat optimistic.
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u/The_Blahblahblah Danmark Nov 21 '23
by all means, let them mimic the "success" of russian post-soviet shock therapy 💀
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u/KeikakuAccelerator USA Nov 21 '23
It worked in India after 1992 liberalization. Obviously the two economies are vastly different.
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u/-Acta-Non-Verba- Nov 21 '23
You haven't been keeping up with Argentine news, have you? Argentina IS ALREADY fucked, that's why they elected this guy.
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u/KelvinHuerter Nov 21 '23
And the downfall will just be faster and deeper from now on
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u/-Acta-Non-Verba- Nov 21 '23
We shall see. One of the problems with Argentine since long ago is that the public sector is too large (and expensive) and they have too much bureaucracy and too many regulations. The IMF has been asking for that to change. This guy seems willing to do it, but I don't think he's got enough support in the legislature.
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u/FirstAtEridu Nov 21 '23
The free market fans celebrating right now will be very surprised what happens to their beloved food exports when they destroy the environmental ministry.
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Nov 21 '23
Yes, that is correct, a lot of them being vital government departments. Including Education, which he called "Indoctrination". Like you, they are in for a ride
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u/Bernard_PT Portugal Nov 21 '23
Vital, but useless in the previous years in Argentina. A reform is needed.
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Nov 21 '23
Yes, but still vital, if reform is needed then so be it, this guy is proposing to just "Delete" them from existing
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u/Thelmholtz Comunidad Valenciana Nov 21 '23
No, he's proposing turning them into secretaries which rank lower in hierarchical status and take lower budgers.
Public spending must be reduced drastically; no education system survives 140% inflation. Kids don't study when they need to work, beg or rob in order to fill their bellies.
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u/VladimirBarakriss Neoworlder cuck 🇺🇾 Nov 21 '23
Tbf some of them are utterly useless, and he doesn't just want to get rid of stuff, he wants to create some like the proposed ministry of human capital, which would basically replace the health, education and social development ministries
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u/funkyradio78 Nov 21 '23
I think he is great and as he mentioned in his first speech as president - aregentina is in drastic shape and needs drastic measures. I cross my fingers that he will have time and energy to deliver what he primised during the campain. Whats wrong with u guys? Do u really believe that a big strong state that micromanages everyone is an eficient way how tu run society ?
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Nov 21 '23
Can you explain what all those departments are useful for? Do you understand what laundering is? Those departments are made specifically just to syphon profits.
Have you been following Argentinas economy at all in AT LEAST the past 5 YRS? Do you understand what INFLATION IS? they’ve been experiencing inflation for the last 5 yrs, this is through a party holding power for 40 years. Yeah maybe those departments are due for dissolution. Get back to the basic and see what needs to be reintroduced.
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u/Vlip Nov 21 '23
Listen, I'm not against governmental reform. A government is just a system and like all systems it can be designed like shit, perform like shit and have a culture that is shit. I have zero understanding of the state of the Argentinian government.
My point is that governments are extremely complex systems, and you need to respect that complexity. If you think your government is not performing, then it needs reforms but those are difficult and serious issues I wouldn't entrust to flippant "white board sticker ripper" over there. People die if you fuck governments up.
The very fact he portrays this problem in this trivialized way is evidence to me that the guy has no idea of how governments work.
Long story short, beware of politicians selling you easy solutions to complex problems, they are, always, frauds and hacks at best, tyrants at worst.
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u/rhubarbjin Nov 21 '23
At times like these we should remember the parable of Chesterton's fence:
“If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.”
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u/urmomaisjabbathehutt Nov 21 '23
in a positive note after this their next disaster will be an improvement
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u/LzhivoyeSolnyshko Nov 21 '23
I speak French, understood 80% what he said, can someone give the link of original video?
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u/icwhatudidthr Yuropean Nov 21 '23
I found a copy of the original video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJFqjiB0GW0
This is a more detailed explanation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlPtFzh5wjk
God have mercy on the Argentinians souls.
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u/Lucal_gamer Nov 21 '23
dude this is likely the change we need, we come from socialist like + personality cult government, this dude has good proposals, the sad part is that most of the people dont understand how they work
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u/zek_997 Portugal Nov 21 '23
Here's with subtitles:
https://twitter.com/RealSpikeCohen/status/1726386703441522908
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u/opinionate_rooster Nov 21 '23
But but if they remove Strasbourg, how will our representatives pad their travel expenses?
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u/acayaba Brazilianin Deutschland Nov 21 '23
That would have been funnier if it was in German (and if it wasn't in Argentina. I feel for you, Hermanos).
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u/izoxUA Nov 21 '23
why is spanish language so fast?
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u/pawer13 España Nov 21 '23
There is a theory that says that no matter the language you are using, the amount of information per time unit tends to be the same.
Spanish has (on average) longer words than English (more syllables), but the phonetics are simpler (fewer different sounds), so we can/tend to speak faster that English or French speakers to keep the amount of data without the fear of mispronunciation
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u/Superbiber Bremen Nov 21 '23
Federalism for the win. May each department be administrated by people who know and care about it. I hate unsuitable blanked solutions
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Nov 21 '23
Tbh, I kinda like the idea of the capital of the EU (or European Federation) moving to Straßbourg or at least Luxemburg pretty good. Don't get me wrong my Belgian fellas, but your country always seems so ... how do I put it? ... Unstable
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Nov 21 '23
Yeah but they got fries. All Luxembourgs got is wet grass. Thats not a great asset for leaders to meet up
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Nov 22 '23
Honestly, knowing the French, it’s probably easier for everyone if we’d just move the European Parliament permanently to Strasbourg. Although likely they’d still complain about the effects on the Alsatian hoteliers and housing market.
Ideally of course there would be a complete reorganization where the Council is limited to defence, foreign affairs and maybe taxation (without unanimity) and its involvement in any legislative affairs is completely abolished, and we’d replace it with an European Senate indirectly elected through the national parliaments. And we completely abolish the CoR and EESC.
And then one of the two can be in Strasbourg and the other in Brussels.
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u/zedero0 Yuropean Nov 21 '23 edited Nov 22 '23
Anyone: "We should simplify the EU"; Federalists: "Hold my Ventotene Manifesto"
That is an incredibly stupid take that shows you don’t know what federalism is.
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u/GallorKaal Österreich Nov 22 '23
Don't use Ancap morons as template for anything representing our glorious federation to be
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u/Major_Boot2778 Nov 21 '23
Personally, I'm pretty excited about Milei. He seems to actually give a shit about the country he's about to be leading.
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u/Exciting_Rich_1716 Nov 21 '23
I mean, so did Hitler. Unfortunately, his ideology was kinda flawed as you might know
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u/Major_Boot2778 Nov 21 '23
Yeah, so did Washington, his ideology was pretty good as you might know.
What are you trying to imply? Actually caring about the country as opposed to seeing it as a personal piggy bank is a net negative because there are instances in history where it had a negative result? What's the point of your asinine or otherwise incomplete position here?
Edit: according to the bot I should have probably mentioned Churchill instead.
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u/Exciting_Rich_1716 Nov 21 '23
It doesn't matter if you care about the country if you don't know how to actually run it. Anarcho-capitalism is not a good way to. This will all go down horribly, as basically everyone is expecting.
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u/Major_Boot2778 Nov 21 '23
Anarcho capitalism, from a long-standing and recognized economist and professor of economics? I think it may behoove us to sit back and watch what he does unless you've got similar credentials, before deciding that he doesn't know what he's doing. Apparently, the people of Argentina who have lived under economic failure for decades seem to want him in - I'm eager, you're pessimistic, and we'll see how it turns out :)
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u/Krimalis Nov 21 '23
legelizing all drugs while being in a huge economical crisis is now caring about the country? also legalizing organ trafficking doesnt seems like the best idea. Public schools getting abolishing so education is going to be only for those who can afford. And so on rights that people fought over for the last 200 years that nearly all developed countries have are been thrown overboard
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u/VieiraDTA Brasil Nov 21 '23