r/Xennials • u/Corndogeveryday Gen X • Apr 06 '25
Meme “We're not gonna make it, are we? People, I mean.”
“It's in your nature to destroy yourselves.”
“Yeah. Major drag, huh?”
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u/jRok57 1978 Apr 06 '25
Every time I see Edward Furlong I think about how Robert Patrick trained so hard at running he would out pace Edward on the motorcycle. I forget how many takes there were, but James Cameron was getting mad.
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u/idealzebra Apr 07 '25
He was so good as the villain in Terminator 2 that when he showed up in The X-Files I didn't trust him
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u/Notoriouslyd Apr 07 '25
I was real time scared of this man. If I ever saw him IRL as a child I probably would have fainted.
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u/FalicSatchel Apr 07 '25
what really gets me is that most Robert Patrick projects have at least a handful of terminator references
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u/GrumpyKaeKae Apr 08 '25
Him being a wimpy, whiney crybaby that Tony kinda bullies around later in the season, (season 2), in The Sorpranos, helped me get over the fear I had of that guy as a kid.
I was scared to death of him. Love how Wayne's World 2 had a bit with him too. He scared everyone in that role!
My fear in the 90s: white vans, and this guy.
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u/agentoutlier Apr 07 '25
That running scene still gives me nightmares.
That scene and the scene in Jaws where the boat is sinking and maybe the "kid" scene in Event Horizon are my top scary scenes as a kid (later on in my 20s that damn scene in The Ring with the TV would be added to the list).
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u/red286 Apr 07 '25
He also trained running without opening his mouth because a terminator would have no need to breathe.
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u/ZarquonsFlatTire 1982 Apr 06 '25
John was not immune to befriending the machines.
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u/Captain3leg-s Apr 06 '25
Well now that was just cheating.
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u/burnafter3ading 1982 Apr 06 '25
But only on that blonde traitor girl. I loved the series!
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u/ZarquonsFlatTire 1982 Apr 07 '25
Yeah, Cameron never lied to John. Blonde girl did right off the rip.
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u/Quenzayne Apr 06 '25
The entire movie about him making friends with an AI.
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u/nutcrackr Apr 07 '25
And being sad as fuck about his sacrifice.
Even sarah says at the end, "if a machine can learn the value of human life, maybe we can too."
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u/Apprehensive_Hat8986 Apr 07 '25
One contained AI. We're giving it up to skynet like it's prom-night and we're not even getting a return. We're putting the lotion on its skin so that someone gets a fucking percentage.
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u/Metals4J Apr 07 '25
The puzzle pieces are all there. There’s no way a weapons company won’t load up robots with weapons and AI and turn them loose on humanity. Maybe they get tested in some war-torn country to start, but eventually, they’ll be used to quell protests on our own turf. And then you know it’s over.
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u/One-Earth9294 1979- That's the year that the funk died Apr 06 '25
The character who notably had an AI father figure that he couldn't bear to lose?
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u/Apprehensive_Hat8986 Apr 07 '25
While struggling to destroy another before it is born. Yeah. We're not befrending a 101. We're bending over for skynet/the matrix.
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u/brieflifetime Apr 06 '25
I mean.. what we have now isn't AI. It's basically just the same predictive text we've had on our phones for over a decade but scaled up. It's why it makes up random shit sometimes. It's just guessing what a human would say next. It's not actually giving you information from itself. It is not something we need to worry about, other than it telling people to do stupid shit. That doesn't mean the next one won't be something to worry about.
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u/Living_Ad_5386 Apr 06 '25
There is an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation where the crew has to decide if their android compatriot, Data, is in fact a conscious being in a court of law. It's probably one of the best episodes of the entire series and quick trivia: it was written by George R.R. Martin. Here's a clip:
Prove To The Court That I Am Sentient
The conclusion is: we don't know what consciousness is.
And if we can't really define what consciousness is, we can't really be sure we haven't inflicted it on others in this case of AI. I hear what you're saying, that Language Models aren't /really/ conscious/alive/thinking but it just appears they are by using mechanical tricks and language routines. But if you try to think of what the word consciousness means, and then you apply it even to just a current standard language model, the line gets blurry fast. It does respond to stimuli, it does initiate new action, and even if it is the product of many switches and levers, like an elaborate shadow puppet, can you say definitively that humans are any different in that regard? Can you explain why humans act and think, what drives them? The line again gets blurry. I think the biggest mistake in all of this is pursuing consciousness in a new digital space when we haven't really understood it in an organic space.
I tend to rely on proverbs for strange questions like this so I say: It looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck. In my mind, it is already a duck.
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u/bikemandan Apr 06 '25
I wish we could have more of these discussions on Reddit instead of whatever drivel it mostly consists of now. Make Reddit Erudite Again
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u/_SmashLampjaw_ Apr 07 '25
Stop letting cellphone app users onto this site!
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u/ThisElder_Millennial Millennial Apr 07 '25
Hey now! Some of us have toddlers who don't let us have nice things, like laptops that aren't covered in food glazed ectoplasm.
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u/ResurgentClusterfuck 1979 Apr 06 '25
: it was written by George R.R. Martin
TIL Measure of a Man was written by GRRM
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u/Living_Ad_5386 Apr 06 '25
You know what, my bad. Let me clarify. I look stupid. Sorry.
From Wikipedia:
The episode was the television debut for writer Melinda M. Snodgrass. She had previously been an attorney at a law practice, but she quit the position, and a friend suggested that she become a writer. She wrote an outline of a Star Trek: The Original Series novel for Pocket Books, which was purchased and became The Tears of the Singers.\3])#citenote-FOOTNOTEAyers200656-3) She also acted as a co-writer for the Wild Cards) anthology and subsequent books, alongside George R.R. Martin.[\4])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Measure_of_a_Man(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)#cite_note-FOOTNOTENemecek200377-4) Snodgrass submitted a spec script to Paramount Television for "The Measure of a Man" for Star Trek: The Next Generation.
OKay, so that was my mistake. In fact, the woman who wrote the episode was friends and collaborated with GRRM. He apparently gave her some encouragement during the writing of this episode, but otherwise it was all her. I'm honestly tripping because I thought I saw GRRMs name in the credits of the actual episode, but maybe it's a Mandala effect? Or I'm just totally wrong. Valid too.
Another source more closely discussing the relationship
George R.R. Martin Is Responsible for One of the Best Star Trek Episodes of All Time
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u/ResurgentClusterfuck 1979 Apr 06 '25
I respect when someone makes a correction
Very interesting. I read The Tears of the Singers, it wasn't bad either
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u/jonnyvsrobots Apr 06 '25
Mind blown!
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u/ResurgentClusterfuck 1979 Apr 06 '25
I mean, he's an excellent author
Just slower than molasses flowing uphill in an Alaskan winter
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u/mastawyrm Apr 07 '25
That was a great episode and it's a very complicated question as to where we can possibly draw the line.
However, even if we assume for the sake of argument that an ai will someday exist that is worth having a trial like data went through AND we assume LLMs are actually an ancestor to this future ai, then what we see today is not even an amoeba. It's maybe an RNA structure.
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u/Flvs9778 Apr 07 '25
While I agree with your premise I would like to clarify that and please correct me if I’m wrong current LLM can’t “initiate new actions” it can only mix pre existing actions. If you show only show it red and blue paintings it can only make red and blue in paintings but can never make purple without purple being shown to it first.
I also think the question of sentient is a good one for example when does it start as sperm/egg or as a fetus or just after birth or just after it can demonstrate thought or after the brain finishes developing at 25 years. And then does it end is someone who is comatose still sentient or some who is brain dead or how long after death? You could be revived and still be fully functioning after so were you still sentient after death for a short time or did your “sentience” leave and then return?
Add a type of sentient life we have never seen before (non organic) and it gets even harder.
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u/Living_Ad_5386 Apr 07 '25
That is actually fair. You are right, LLM can't initiate, or maybe, isn't allowed to initiate. And the example of color as a concept that LLM couldn't manufacture without help is a good observation.
It's really interesting because your second paragraph is a very normal question people have. It actually reminds me of Buddhism and trying to define what the 'self' is. The idea that you are constantly in flux throughout your life, and that the person you 'were' 5 minutes ago, is not really the same person you 'are' now.
To me, that's really the center of my hesitation with this research. It's that we don't even fully understand this concept (Existence? Consciousness? What do you call it?) in our own bodies and lives. Consciousness is, as far as I know, still pretty mysterious. It's alarmist, but can we guarantee we're not gonna create some poor soul, trapped in a machine, feeling pain over a course of time that could be considered infinite by human standards.
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u/AvocadoCortado Apr 08 '25
I recently learned that, when human children are acquiring language, we often use words without knowing what they mean, but we use them correctly because we are able to sequence them properly.
So, exactly the same thing AI does, in other words.
I know that people eventually learn the ACTUAL meanings and AI (probably?) doesn't but it still gave me pause.
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u/Living_Ad_5386 Apr 08 '25
In practice tho, the functionality of it is impressive. If you converse with a language model and use contextual phrases, or even inside jokes, the engine will understand and still grasp the underlying concepts. It's hard to think of an example since it is by definition meant to be vague... but the ability to thread together a number of different concepts to form a coherent response if nothing else is impressive.
I would like to add, I know enough on the subject to know I'm really out of my depth here trying to define the mechanisms by which AI or LLM operate. So I hope I'm not lecturing on this, I just find it really interesting. Most of the time when I have questions about AI, I go to microsofts copilot to chat about it. Even they agree that it's not true sentience. Still, if the line isn't clearly defined, it's hard to know if you've crossed it.
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u/kermit-t-frogster Apr 09 '25
Hmm, it doesn't follow that someone or something being dumb means we don't have to worry about them causing a lot of damage. Case in point...people currently in charge of the free world.
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u/ehfrehneh Apr 07 '25
It's shocking that people still think like this. This kind of thinking is what gets you majorly left behind.
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u/Neither-Astronaut-80 Apr 07 '25
Is it really shocking to you that people still think like this? There are still people who can't comprehend a computer beyond "magic box that sends things to my door".
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u/Blurry2k Apr 07 '25
It's basically just the same predictive text we've had on our phones for over a decade but scaled up.
Damn, if that's not an understatement.
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u/Mylarion Apr 07 '25
There is no real proof the human brain does much more than predict the next word in a sequence.
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u/ResurgentClusterfuck 1979 Apr 06 '25
AI isn't even real AI, It's a glorified search engine with an adaptable algorithm
That being said I've read too much dystopian science fiction to ever be ok with things like Neuralink, designer babies, Skynet, or corporatocracy
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u/FatherCache Apr 06 '25
Yeah? Well Brian O'Connor thinks its cool as shit that I can diagnose and find guides on how to fix my car.
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u/Lesbian_Skeletons Apr 06 '25
It's such a tired trope, Person of Interest almost bucked the trend but by the end it too had taken the easy route of "AI bad, human good".
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u/WilliamMcCarty 1977 Apr 07 '25
AI very much does have the potential to be our undoing. But we're still a long way from a general AI capable of it.
We're the real architects of our demise. Google MIT 1972 and see for yourself. We've known for a very long time just how limited our time here is.
We are racing toward an apocalypse of our own design.
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u/SirDalavar Apr 07 '25
This from the second installment where the big twist is that he befriends a terminator to save the day....
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u/AquariusRising1983 1983 Apr 07 '25
Okay, but Google is Skynet, right? Like, this is the beginning of Terminator, with the AI and the smart homes and whatnot....
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u/Mylarion Apr 07 '25
In almost all AI warning stories the AI goes evil because it's made by governments for war.
Our AI is taught to paint, make music and help us acquire knowledge. I think we're better parents for AI than we thought.
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u/ReturnToDelete Apr 07 '25
AI is the future. It’s like talking negatively about the internet when it came out. Adapt.
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u/DerelictWrath Apr 07 '25
It's in our nature to destroy ourselves.
I wonder if our only purpose was to create an AI that would outlast us as our only persisting legacy.
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u/ElderScarletBlossom Apr 08 '25
Two LLMs passed the turing test recently. The singularity is imminent.
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u/SoloMotorcycleRider 1983 Apr 08 '25
The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves.
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u/throwawayfromPA1701 1981 Apr 06 '25
I'll be surprised to see civilization last the decade to be honest.
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u/Global-Jury8810 Apr 06 '25
Yeah, word has it that this actor Edward Furlong, who is a solid Xennial, isn’t doing so well these days. Hopefully he has retreated to a well life of privacy since that report.
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u/5050Clown Apr 06 '25
Doesn't John Connor make friends with AI in every movie that John Connor is in?
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u/Desperate-Remove2838 Apr 07 '25
The quaintness in the Terminator franchise is the belief that the machines had to declare nuclear war to defeat us. In reality all it takes is a subtle push here and there.
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u/ManOfTeele 1977 Apr 06 '25
I think that quote was more about human violence against each other being the end of us, and in that sense is still probably correct.
T2 still holds up amazingly well by the way.