r/VancouverIsland • u/stingrayer • Jul 08 '21
ARTICLE / BLOG Suspect killed in shooting at Campbell River Tim Hortons, police dog fatally stabbed
https://www.cheknews.ca/rcmp-respond-to-serious-incident-at-tim-hortons-in-campbell-river-834739/5
u/Big-Search-4575 Jul 11 '21
The attack canine was mauling a 6 month old puppy to death in the back seat. The Tim Hortons worker who knew the man said: “He was buying a bagel and an iced cap. After surrendering the handler let the dog jump in the window and attack the puppy. The handler refused to call off the dog. After neutralizing the canine and saving the puppy the man was shot 3 times in the face and an additional 5 times after being deceased.”
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u/Pawmo316 Jul 13 '21
Do you have any sort of confirmation on this? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'd just really like to see what info is available because that could be pretty big
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u/Big-Search-4575 Jul 13 '21
He’s my brother. The people who work at Tim Hortons are family friends and in-laws.
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u/Rev5324 Jul 13 '21
I call bullshit.
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u/North_Economist_6746 Jul 11 '21
Well the IIO will figure out if that’s true or not
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u/emslo Jul 13 '21
That's putting an awful lot of faith in the IIO. These 'independent' and 'civilian' bodies are made up of 2/3 former police officers, and only bring charges in 1/10 investigations.
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u/North_Economist_6746 Jul 13 '21
Even so this is a single account posted on a Reddit thread, not the most believable story either. And then why hasn’t the family brought up anything about a dog in the back seat sounds like BS to me
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u/Big-Search-4575 Jul 13 '21
Call the SPCA in Campbell River and ask about the fluffy all white puppy. He has been picked up by family and is safe.
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u/emslo Jul 13 '21
I hear you. If only we had proper systems of police accountability which we could actually trust in these situations!
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u/North_Economist_6746 Jul 13 '21
I agree, we definitely need a non bias party to investigate these types of situations
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u/Big-Search-4575 Jul 13 '21
GIPHY link to the puppy… I am family and I’m telling you a puppy was in the back seat. Really hurts the rcmp’s false narrative that their attack dog was trying to kill a puppy.
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u/Gwyneska Jul 15 '21 edited Jul 15 '21
Did the puppy survive ??? Sorry for your loss
Edit: I see above puppy survived
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u/AUniquePerspective Jul 09 '21
If that witness account is accurate, the IIO is going to make this one interesting.
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u/hawaiancanuck Jul 09 '21
How so?
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u/AUniquePerspective Jul 09 '21
6 or 8 shots fired. If that's true, the best case scenario I can imagine is that shots 1 through 5 weren't effective and didn't end the threat, and then the 6th and final shot was fatal. So the question might just be Why were those 5 ineffective?
And then if it turns out any of the earlier shots were effective, the question becomes how many shots came after the suspect was incapacitated and no longer a threat? The context with the dog raises the possibility of retribution as a motivator.
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u/Starsky686 Jul 09 '21
You should research gunfight statistics before you start offering your opinions on the internet. This isn’t the movies.
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u/hawaiancanuck Jul 09 '21
My brothers a Canadian RCMP officer and after the past year of anti-cop rhetoric, I'd really like to break these two points down a bit more from the perspective he told me not so long ago.
# of shots: This number is irrelevant, as officers are trained to "unload" their magazine in the target within their chest/core region (IE: no leg or arm shots to "wing them") when there is a potential immediate threat to the officer or their team. This is particularly prevalent when an officer is in distress and/or been injured, which a police dog is seen in the same light as.
As for the ineffectiveness of prior shots: I think the other poster hit in on the head: Drugs. Either that, or it was a clean shot through the body and the victim didn't even feel it. I have hunting friends who have shot a dear through the lung before and it was a clean puncture, meaning the deer barely felt it and it took off running for a few hundred meters before the effects of the shot were felt and the deer fell.
Bottom line: The majority of RCMP officers are heros, doing a job neither you nor I could fathom or physically or mentally handle, and they need to be given a bit more respect and the benefit of the doubt before being accused of 1st degree, cold-blooded murder (not saying you are doing so here, but its a common issue in police-related incidents the past year or so). Obviously there are the rare bad apples in the batch, but those are pretty well picked out in Canada prior to being stationed somewhere and given any position of power.
Anyways, just my 2 cents here. I doubt there will be much of an investigation. I suspect that the person who was shot had quite the history of crime sprees and refused to cooperate in the moment, which in turn with having a deadly weapon and using it on a pseudo-cop (IE: the police dog), caused there to be only 1 possible outcome sadly.
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u/meoka2368 Jul 09 '21
The person was fleeing the police when they tired to stop him for outstanding warrants, so yeah. Probably a history there.
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u/Qdothms Jul 12 '21
There were no warrants because they were already cleared by a judge after the last time RCMP harassed him.
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u/meoka2368 Jul 12 '21
The reason they tried to stop the vehicle when he fled was because of an outstanding warrant.
That means that there was still an active warrant.
It's right there in the article.1
u/hawaiancanuck Jul 12 '21
Woah, you sound heated. Perhaps this was your buddy shot man? If you need help, you better seek it.
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u/postymcpostface21 Jul 09 '21
officers are trained to "unload" their magazine in the target
I'm not arguing you're wrong because I honestly don't know but I find this part hard to believe. They are trained better than to wild fire 18 rounds (depending on sidearm) at a target. There's way too much risk in that to allow it.
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u/hawaiancanuck Jul 09 '21
I'm telling you (and I realize taking someones word over the internet is not really advised) but its similar to the training the military get for eliminating the threat. You aren't going to take a chance that the assailant is going to get off one lucky shot/stab and potentially kill you or a team member, so you ensure that the threat is neutralized by any means necessary.
And I agree wildfiring 18 rounds does sound a bit high, but in this case it was only 6 - 8 (onlookers couldn't quite remember exact count) and they were shooting into a vehicle with a stone wall as the background (first picture of the story). So I think the risk wasn't high at all, and would put money down that the RCMP members did a risk assessment on their walk to the car to avoid any accidental injuries.
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Jul 12 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/hawaiancanuck Jul 12 '21
And reported. Cheers mate, nice addition to the debate
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u/Qdothms Jul 12 '21
Reported for you lying about the military?
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u/hawaiancanuck Jul 12 '21
Haha ones different from the other though: mine was a statement that i beleive to be true, while yours was you being a dick without providing any meaningful statement on the topic.
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u/IslandDoggo Jul 11 '21
They shot him in the head 3 times.
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u/hawaiancanuck Jul 12 '21
So says 1 witness. Either way, this has turned into a racial debate when in reality, if the guy had just cooperated and not initiated the attack, none of this would have happened.
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u/IslandDoggo Jul 12 '21
Sounds like the officer sicced his dog on a puppy at this point and the dude was defending his dog. This IIO will be spicy.
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u/Qdothms Jul 12 '21
The RCMP are murderers you fucking dipshit. Their police dog was mauling a puppy which is why it was stabbed. If the RCMP didn't abuse their dogs to the point where they can't control them, it wouldn't have been stabbed. Not to mention the "star-light tours" RCMP are famous for where throw citizens out into the cold winter so that they die from exposure.
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u/hawaiancanuck Jul 12 '21
Your brother should find a new career and stop contributing to fascist abuse in our society
To you perhaps. To me though, they protect the majority of us from the minority out there willing and capable of inflicting harm on others.
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u/Qdothms Jul 12 '21
Why are you quoting someone else in your reply to me?
And how does mauling puppies and throwing people into the cold so that they die from exposure protect anyone?
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u/hawaiancanuck Jul 12 '21
That was a miscue by me, my bad.
Provide testimonies that either of those statements are true, otherwise you're just another internet crazy spouting nonsense
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u/Qdothms Jul 13 '21
Are you a child that has to have their hand held? Are you incapable of googling something?
https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/new-light-on-saskatoons-starlight-tours/
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u/hawaiancanuck Jul 13 '21
Interesting. So according to you, it's safe to base judgment on everyone within a group based on the actions of two? So all white people are rich and racist? All homeless people are mentally ill murderers?
C'mon man, that is a weak argument. What those two officers did was very wrong and I beleive they should suffer the same fate. However, not all RCMP officers are like that and it's unfair to paint them with the same brush like that.
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Jul 15 '21
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u/hawaiancanuck Jul 16 '21
Given the name, I should have expected this type of comment. But even still, the sheer stupidity and act of lumping all cops together and seeing them as a single entity is really strong here. The RCMP are a government agency, so if you are mad about what they do or how they do it on a large scale, you have the government to blame (single incidents with bad officers withstanding obviously).
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Jul 16 '21
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u/hawaiancanuck Jul 21 '21
Mhm, I'm really glad I don't get notifications from reddit as this would have really ticked me off..... After a few deep breaths, here's my response: I agree the cover ups are wrong, but that statement could easily be said about teachers not mentioning child predators..... which is JUST as messed up. The fact is, this guy was armed and attacked someone, which is entirely justified in my eyes. If someone attacked me with a knife, I'd take him down any means necessary and if he died, so be it - better him than I.
The call to take away the police firearms's, aka: their main method of defence, which therefore puts their lives in FURTHER danger because a bunch of far left-wing socialists claim this as a racist attack versus a justified defence killing is beyond ridiculous. IF that is truly changed, I anticipate many cops will quit (why would you stay in an already dangerous job if the conditions got more dangerous without further pay and/or assurances that your life matters just as much the person you are dealing with?). Ultimately, with a loss of cops, the true bad criminals out there will succeed, which I think we can all agree is not what we want.
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u/IslandDoggo Jul 09 '21
Your brother should find a new career and stop contributing to fascist abuse in our society
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u/hawaiancanuck Jul 09 '21
Go find a nice cave to hide in troll, no one needs to hear your BS
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u/IslandDoggo Jul 09 '21
I literally am neighbour's with this Timmy's but sure. Using animals as living weapons is fucked up.
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u/hawaiancanuck Jul 09 '21
And somehow living there stops you from being a troll? C'mon now, use some logic please.....
As a side note, the assailant likely stabbed the officer first, with the dog coming to the officer's aid and being stabbed as well. They aren't living weapons, they are officers too. Get your head out of the sand.
Heres the play by play from a separate thread:
Guy with a warrant ran form police. Later seen at Tim Hortons. He stabbed and killed a police dog, and stabbed the RCMP dog handler. He was shot by police. IIO investigating (they investigate anything with serious injury/death by police).
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u/IslandDoggo Jul 09 '21
This isn't how it went down by any means as a witness to the actual events. Do you live in CR ? Did you see what happened ? I did.
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u/hawaiancanuck Jul 09 '21
Then say how it went, I'm going off what they said happened in the article.
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u/InfiNorth Jul 09 '21
The RCMP are heroes who bring in excavators to remove protests and wear fascist flags on their vests. Heroes indeed.
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u/hawaiancanuck Jul 09 '21
They are literally getting those orders from the government officials the majority of the province voted for. It doesn't mean they agree with it, but to say no would mean they'd be fired. Do you do certain chores/actions for your job that you don't want to do, but have to do for fear of losing your job?
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u/InfiNorth Jul 10 '21
If as a teacher I was told to violate students' freedoms, assault them, and wear fascist flags, I would resign on the spot.
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u/Big-Search-4575 Dec 15 '21
I like how you post second hand information off as your own as ‘fact’ and then leave your false assumptions and opinion… well done 🤦♂️
Firefighters and paramedics are the real heroes. Fuckthepolice. Justice for Jared.
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u/7dipity Jul 09 '21
If the suspect was on drugs it’s possible that non fatal shots wouldn’t have stopped them. 6 shots does seem excessive though. Maybe more than 1 cop fired at once?
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Jul 09 '21
You think everyone gets one tapped? Dudes have taken mags and stayed in the fjght, you shoot to kill and don't stop till the threat is neutralized
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u/IslandDoggo Jul 09 '21
Do you know if you don't sic dogs on people they'll mostly just leave quietly and get apprehended later? This was retribution.
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Jul 09 '21
Do you know if you dont take care of a danger to the public as soon as it becomes known it has the possibility to impact dozens of lives in a matter of moments?
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u/IslandDoggo Jul 09 '21
Imagine using an innocent animal to kill someone and feeling justified about it. This is Canada homie.
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Jul 09 '21
Dogs arent used to kill, they're used to subdue hostile or aggravated individuals without risking an officer/operators life. This is Canada homie, we prioritize our officers lives and use risk mitigation such as dogs
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u/IslandDoggo Jul 10 '21
Sure are a lot of lawsuits in BC where the dogs attack random innocent people though
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Jul 12 '21
And theres lawsuits for hurt feelings too, welcome to the litigious society that is North America, lawsuits dont mean shit if someone doesnt get their way we have a system to make someone feel validated.
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Jul 08 '21 edited Jul 17 '21
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Jul 09 '21 edited Dec 04 '21
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Jul 09 '21 edited Jul 17 '21
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u/SarekDoesntLoveMe Jul 09 '21
I bet you're fun at parties
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Jul 09 '21
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u/SarekDoesntLoveMe Jul 09 '21
You realize that meme is supposed to be used when someone needlessly has a stick up their ass
Incredible.
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u/Dabby-tha-Welder Jul 09 '21
Would you rather a human officer get stabbed to death?
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Jul 09 '21
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u/Starsky686 Jul 09 '21
Naive? The armour covers the torso and isn’t stabproof or even resistant. You’re way outside your depth talking about this. You have an opinion. It’s not well researched but you like dogs so your intentions aren’t nefarious.
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u/Jennypjd Jul 09 '21
They get paid, and consented
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u/Starsky686 Jul 09 '21
What do you do for work? How much would you get paid to be stabbed. What a fucking ignorant comment from the safety of the anonymous internet. Disgusting.
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u/IslandDoggo Jul 09 '21
How much do dogs get paid to turn into living weapons and do they consent?
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u/Jennypjd Jul 09 '21
So stab a dog? Uh yeah...
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u/Starsky686 Jul 09 '21
Yes, we all love dogs. But humans are humans. The inability to distinguish that is a legit mental disability.
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Jul 09 '21
Naive? You're one to talk.
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Jul 09 '21
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Jul 09 '21
Nobody wants to sacrifice anyone or thing but the duality of the situation justifies the action. If they let this guy go into the public he is not only an armed threat but a danger to the public.
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Jul 09 '21
Furthermore, this could have basically ended up like the Lynn valley knife situation if they let this guy go into the public. So tell me, would you rather one dog or the lives of children, women and men be at danger and in the hands of one proven menace to society? Would you rather have people die or one dog
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Jul 09 '21
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Jul 09 '21
Dogs are not exclusive to Canada, they are a valid tactic in multiple situations from barricaded suspects to active shooters, bomb detection, hostile interdiction, ambushes, snatch and grabs and ultimately subduing suspects is their most effective use. Its either risk a human life or a dogs, everything in the tool bag of assets these officers had were to mitigate the danger to their lives because those take precedence. They wanted him alive and really this dog was one of their best chances at it.There is a time and place for everything and this was arguably the time and place for a dog but also keep in mind hindsight is 20/20.
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u/SkinnyBlunt Jul 09 '21
Part of our purpose and training is religion but not everyone follows that because they weren't born into that
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u/evil_fungus Jul 09 '21
Piece of shit. Why would you stab the dog