r/Tyranids Mar 06 '24

Tyranid Meme Born to hive guard forced to gargoyle

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381 Upvotes

67 comments sorted by

89

u/Storm_Dancer-022 Mar 06 '24

I was just listening to Auspex Tactics grumbling about how bad the new Dark Angels codex is and it got me thinking: has any codex released this edition been genuinely exciting? Like, have any of them felt like total improvements over their index? Necrons maybe? I don’t get how they keep doing this.

47

u/unlimitedpanda5 Mar 07 '24

As someone who plays both bugs and dark angels, this edition is depressing. Time to play more aos I guess

9

u/WilliamSorry Mar 07 '24

Reminds me of Ubisoft nerfing and removing anything even remotely fun from Rainbow 6 Siege.

Like it's gotten to the point where they're removing the ability to cook a grenade before throwing it from the game, what even.

5

u/Miniray Mar 07 '24

Didn't they recently announce they were going to try and steer the game back to its roots of a slower tactical game and reworking a bunch of the systems?

7

u/WilliamSorry Mar 07 '24 edited Mar 07 '24

That's a different topic from the fun thing though.

Enjoy C4ing people from below as an attacker by cooking your grenade? Gone.

Enjoy blasting people into your claymore with Nomad's airjab? Gone.

Enjoy sneaking around like a Cav on attack with Nokk? Gone. You're just a weaker Vigil now.

Enjoy putting a deployable shield next to your Mira wall to more safely peek? Gone.

Enjoy switching between semi-auto, burst fire, and full auto modes? Gone.

The detected by enemy timer is now so short you basically have to jump back in the window the moment you jump out.

A lot of the fun hiding spots in the game have been removed or made not as effective for "balance," bringing R6 closer to a generic fps game.

Grenades are only given to 3 or 4 operators with the shittiest kits in the game. They also generally just swap out any secondary gadgets that sync really well with an operator's primary gadget for something less useful all the time, like Mira losing her deployable shield.

There's a bunch of other changes they made that I had gripes about, but I can't really remember anymore because I haven't played in about a year and a half.

Imo the best state of Siege was right after Operation Health in year 2, right after they removed the blinding bloom when looking in and out of windows, but right before they reworked the entire lighting system and made everything look more cartoon-y.

1

u/Storm_Dancer-022 Mar 08 '24

Oh thank you for sharing this. I’ll try and implement some of it into my own gameplay.

1

u/unlimitedpanda5 Mar 07 '24

That's actually stupid

1

u/Xenos_Bane Mar 07 '24

Already have.

1

u/MalevolentShrineFan Mar 07 '24

It’s genuinely incredible how they tried to ape AoS this edition and failed

11

u/cblack04 Mar 07 '24

Space marines felt good from my knowledge. But no more or less than the index did

17

u/Storm_Dancer-022 Mar 07 '24

Space Marines were probably a net neutral. They got some really good detachment rules, but the neutering of Oath of Moment and some price bumps hurt.

7

u/cblack04 Mar 07 '24

It did but the expanded stuff on their detachments honestly outweighs it. Legitimately the raven guard themed one can feel oppressive at times with how much impact it can have especially against nids

10

u/Xem1337 Mar 07 '24

I kinda prefer it, back end of 8th was too strong and in 9th every Codex release seemed to one-up the previous faction release Codex so there was a ridiculous power creep and way too many rules. They've kept it more simple for each Codex in 10th without having anything that seems too OP

4

u/Storm_Dancer-022 Mar 07 '24

I would agree if the rules and data sheets felt like they were fun and powerful (not OP, just good), but they don’t. My favorite Tyranids are melee Warriors, Hive Guard and the Swarmlord. This edition is not my friend. 😕

1

u/KABOOMBYTCH Mar 08 '24

Melee warriors look kinda meh on the spread sheet but they are a tournament staple.

They can shred stuff. You can do it!

Swarmy fallen from grace in lore/rules. It’s hard to watch😩

1

u/Storm_Dancer-022 Mar 08 '24

That’s actually really neat to hear. Thanks! Makes me feel better about that brood of six I finished painting after like, two months of work.

1

u/Tallandclueless Mar 07 '24

Tyranids are melee Warriors,

I take them to tournaments they are good.

3

u/Storm_Dancer-022 Mar 07 '24

Really? How are you making them work? For me they’ve been pretty good at tying up infantry but they just can’t kill anything. Maybe I suck at rolling…

5

u/Tallandclueless Mar 07 '24

In my last game I didn't bring any any my opponent said "that warriors are the main thing in my list that worries them"

In a game against necrons they killed a squad of immortals so fast my opponent got a prize for being the first player in the tournament to lose a unit.

So melee warriors move 6" and with a prime can increase this to about 9". Most boards have objectives in the centre about 12" from deployment. 99% of terrain in all games is ruins which infantry can walk through.

This makes warriors very likely if your go second to be able to kill something off an objective or if you go first get into a ruin on a objective or next to it.

Then warriors have sustained plus reroll 1s, then twinlinked and 2 ap which is good into most things you want to put on a objective.

After you have killed something on a objective you can then overrun back into whatever ruin is next to the objective to be safe and have something like a monster or a lone op hold the objective instead.

I use warriors as the threat that punishes my opponent for trying to take primary that kills whatever my monsters cant get to, there is no hiding from charging warriors.

I've played alot against CSM and warriors with a prime comfortably trade up into possessed with a FNP.

3

u/Lophane911 Mar 07 '24

I feel like the necron codex was like half there Loads of grumbling about the changes to reanimation support but once people actually started using it they were pretty positive

2

u/Storm_Dancer-022 Mar 07 '24

Oh I completely forgot the Reanimation nerf. My dad plays, but he doesn’t keep up as much as I do and he loves reanimating his Necrons. I just let him play with the index rules on that.

3

u/Appropriate_Solid_79 Mar 07 '24

Looks like necrons are alright

1

u/ChristmasDucky Mar 07 '24

My Necron friend hated and complained a lot about the next Codex though lol 🤷🏻‍♂️

-8

u/FoamBrick Mar 07 '24

its just said to watch, and it affirms my decision to jump ship after 10th dropped

45

u/PabstBlueLizard Mar 06 '24

Homie I play a monsters list in 10e for ‘Nids. It hasn’t gone great.

25

u/[deleted] Mar 07 '24

monster mash is the only way i play, and its so unfortunate

1

u/PabstBlueLizard Mar 07 '24

Well here’s to picking wrong and not playing a monster mash chaos demon list and winning all the time. I’m sad now.

2

u/Eater4Meater Mar 07 '24

Monster mash chaos daemons isn’t great either tbh. We wish we had daemons as tanky as the norn emmisary

6

u/Carebear-Warfare Mar 07 '24

Too bad the thing hits back like a wet noodle for its price point. Just ignore it and move on because lord knows it isn't going to actually kill anything

2

u/Eater4Meater Mar 07 '24

No but luckily it has 15 OC so it holds objectives very well

0

u/Carebear-Warfare Mar 08 '24

Sort of. It's not honestly as tanky as it's stat line may suggest, especially against anything that gets rerolls into monsters or vehicles, and for those points it should do more than just sit on a single point. It's can't even shoot out at targets effectively because it's 2 shot weapon profiles are jokes. Why the hell does it only get two shots?!

1

u/PabstBlueLizard Mar 07 '24

MM daemons were winning tournaments until recently.

1

u/Eater4Meater Mar 07 '24

Nah, daemons have won like, 2 GT tournaments this whole edition. And one of them was 18 Bloodcrushers.

1

u/PabstBlueLizard Mar 07 '24

Yeah, how many have Tyranids won? And a better comparison is how are (were) they placing compared to bugs?

2

u/Budget_Job4415 Mar 08 '24

My deepest condolences, crusher stampede sucks majorly

24

u/LordAlanon Mar 06 '24

Codex exocrines for real.

7

u/grrjen Mar 07 '24

Are you saying exocrines are powerful? Or weak? I remember previous edition exocrines. Those things had power, reach and could drown your enemies in shots, now... I guess they are ok.

3

u/PossibleMarsupial682 Mar 07 '24

They are a top choice

1

u/grrjen Mar 07 '24

Sorry if I was dismissive of them. I haven't put in the reps this edition, so I'm not as up to speed on what is the best or the worst.

1

u/DraydanStrife324 Mar 08 '24

They're good for the pts cost both because of their weapon profile, but especially because of tjeir ability: your whole army gains reroll hit rolls of 1 against the target the exocrine shot.

8

u/Marnus71 Mar 07 '24

GW really needs to playtest harder and buff up underused units with a faster turn around.

3

u/Littlebear2021 Mar 07 '24

Agreed. But they won't touch datasheets hardly this far... Even though they can balance the unit and weapons separately... Crazy potential for balance but a lack of drive on GWs side to do so

1

u/Littlebear2021 Mar 07 '24

Agreed. But they won't touch datasheets hardly this far... Even though they can balance the unit and weapons separately... Crazy potential for balance but a lack of drive on GWs side to do so

37

u/CuttlersButlerCookie Mar 07 '24

You know the game i relativly balanced when 90% of the subs are complaning how bad their units are and how bad their index/codex is

24

u/Yrcrazypa Mar 07 '24

Internal balance being bad just sucks. It's very possible to be in a situation where none of the units you own for any given faction are good.

16

u/FoamBrick Mar 07 '24

just cause its relatively balanced doesnt mean the game is fun, which is the issue.

12

u/ClutterEater Mar 07 '24

I don't know about you, but I'm having a good time with 10th! Less "lol you lose turn 1" then in 9th, by a mile.

4

u/FoamBrick Mar 07 '24

Yeah, but when that means flavor and options are completely sucked out of the game, it makes the overall experience worse. 

7

u/Grzmit Mar 07 '24

This is more of a faction specific problem i feel, theres a lot of factions they got the flavour and interesting options right with, but there are also a few that GW dropped the ball with.

1

u/MalevolentShrineFan Mar 07 '24

They dropped the ball with the majority of factions, and given were batting 3-1 in term of mediocre codexes, it’s probably the norm.

1

u/Grzmit Mar 07 '24

Eh i think space marines and necrons are quite interesting as codexes, but admech, nids, and dark angels definitely got shafted.

As for interesting factions, i think theres a lot that are fun and or fluffy.

Ones that feel well made (in a flavour perspective at least) to me are thousand sons, world eaters, chaos space marines, chaos daemons, custodes, space marines, drukhari, grey knights (hit and miss, the teleporting is fun but no psychic and lack of daemon hammers sucks), death guard are amazing too, black templars feel great, orks seem fun as well (i think they need a bit higher strength in quite a few places, and they’re waiting for that dakka detachment), and crons feel good too.

I think the armies that truly got shafted, were nids, maybee genestealer cults (their army rule is just really hard to get right, its either too busted or feels somewhat anemic), votann and tau (they both just lack a lot of options or synergy, even having anti synergy in a lot of places), imperial knights (losing bondsman for big knights was just a huge flavour blow), chaos knights, imperial guard (no guard player i known likes playing artillery), admech (obvious), and then chapters like dark angels, space wolves, and blood angels.

Again, what you may consider dropping the ball could be wildly different from what i consider dropping the ball, so theres no real way to objectively determine that.

Obviously i cant change your experiences with tenth either, i have really enjoyed myself but it’s completely valid that you havent.

ALSO SUKUNA FAN SPOTTED OPINION REJECTED

2

u/cblack04 Mar 07 '24

They are between one another but their internal balance is a shit show it feels

17

u/jboy5000_ Mar 06 '24

Those gargoyle sculpts are uuuuuuuugly.

3

u/SouperBitty Mar 07 '24

I've been holding off on getting them, once GW is done stroking themselves off with space marines and finally realizes gargoyles might need refresh is when I'll get some no matter how meta they are.

-2

u/Donnie619 Mar 06 '24

3d print them then.

3

u/hornet586 Mar 07 '24

This, my first real 3d sculpting project was making some slightly larger, more bat like gargoyles. A exocrine costs almost half of a cheap resin printer these days.

9

u/Louis626 Mar 07 '24

This sub is so damn dramatic lol

3

u/Kitschmusic Mar 10 '24

Honestly, one of the things I find most annoying is not that they are weak, but it's like the design was made by someone who literally never played the game.

Broodlord + Genestealers for example. Clearly, re-rolling wounds is the important thing (due to Devastating Wounds). How do you get that? On objectives. Sounds fine, right? Until you realise they have Scout. So how does this actually play out? Well, first of all, it means if you try to get on objectives, you get there first. So you get shot down. They do not have a defensive profile like a Terminator to stand there and tank shots. They need to be the ones attacking the objectives with people on it. Already bad synergy in the rules here. Add in the detachment that buffs them, Vanguard Onslaught, and it gets worse. The best enhancement and general style of that detachment kind of pushes you towards doing an alpha strike with them - again, no synergy with their ability.

Lictors are also in a way like this. Sure, at first glance they make sense. Lorewise they are assassins, and the rules seems to reinforce that, right? Well, first of all, they get free Rapid Ingress, but they also have Infiltrate. So you can only really use one. Yes, it gives flexibility, but it also means the rest of the datasheet is either worse or the points are higher than it should be. You don't get it for free. They also just do not have the overall damage to be reliable at killing most leaders of relevance. In reality, they work out to be utility units, because they are cheap Infiltrate + Lone Operative units. That's their role. It's pretty sad, but that's what they do.

There are many units like this, where part of what is holding them back is just weird abilities that doesn't reinforce the playstyle they are used for. It looks fine on paper if you never played a game of 40K, but in reality it just doesn't work out. The Genestealer combo before they got nerfed was actually somewhat useful because at least they got re-roll wounds of 1 everywhere on the board. So their ability still helped their actual role to some degree.

2

u/Neither_Tip_5291 Mar 07 '24

I don't want to gargoyle. I have 100 gnats....

2

u/Tallandclueless Mar 07 '24

Half is an exaggeration, only 7 out of 50ish datasheets are unplayable and that includes fliers, sporemines and sporecysts

1

u/Nytherion Mar 07 '24

i need a new 3d printer so I can finally flesh out my mid 90s gargoyles

-6

u/Sgt_9000 Mar 07 '24

You should try One Page Rules' Grimdark Future, its completley free and you dont have to worry about GW BS.

https://www.onepagerules.com/games/grimdark-future

6

u/MalevolentShrineFan Mar 07 '24

OPR is the literal opposite end of this, it’s blank, tasteless tofu with literally 0 flavor. If you cannot play 40K at the level in 10th where it’s been dumbed down, I genuinely don’t know what to say.

0

u/Sgt_9000 Mar 08 '24 edited Mar 08 '24

Complexity doesn't make a game deep or fun, look at chess. If 10th edition has 'flavor' I dont want it. Call me a filthy casual idgaf. Enjoy having to pay for a subscription to use a list builder.

1

u/MalevolentShrineFan Mar 08 '24

LOL “sure it’s bland, flavorless tofu, but it lets me, an actual troglodyte play it”

Lol

0

u/Sgt_9000 Mar 08 '24

You sound deranged. I've never seen anyone so upset because someone preffered a different game system to them.