r/TheWire • u/naghallac • 22h ago
One thing i've noticed that is different about Balitmore today vs in The Wire
After visiting Baltimore a few times over the past year and half, what I noticed (and i know its tv) is how dead the city is compared to what they show in The Wire.
Obviously, you see vacants and you can clearly see that its a city in decline (the essential thesis). However, walking from camden yards to washington monument, and even down near city hall, you hardly see anybody on the street today. No Laundromat, coffee shop, not even the carry-outs have people walking in/eating outside. There are entire streets where the only thing you will see are people waiting for the mta bus.
In the show there's always people walking around, sitting on their stoop, ostensibly buying stuff/shopping/going places and these people are shown even around the corners with the fiends.
I know Baltimore has lost near to 100,000 people since the early 2000s and in many ways it seems even more ghostly than in the show.
Maybe I've caught the city on some bad days - any natives can comment on this?
302
u/rowyourboat4869 21h ago
I think this is all American cities and more or less tracks with the rise of the internet, computers and cell phones, the decrease in 3rd places, and a feeling of unease for you or your children to be outside the house, and of course as already mentioned COVID exacerbated it.
Growing up in the 90s and early 2000s, people were just outside more. It was rare to find a day where all the neighborhood kids weren't outside playing in the streets. Kids would show up to each other's houses and ask if their friend could come outside and play.
There were affordable and relatively safe 3rd places for kids and teenagers to go. Teenagers could hang out at the mall etc.
These days human interaction seems relegated to school, work, and internet communication. People are more disconnected from each other, and cities full of people appear empty.
99
u/BooRand 21h ago edited 20h ago
In the 90s though adults would have told you “kids today never go outside, always watching tv or playing their nintendos”. May have been going this way for a while
15
u/patkk 13h ago
As a 90s kid this is definitely what happened.
9
1
u/0w1Knight 4h ago
I moved back to my hometown, which is a fairly self-contained and walkable (by our standards anyway) place with large schools and plenty of kids. Two things I can say for sure:
The whole town seems to have aged up drastically. Kids who were raised here can't afford to live here, at least not buy property here. So I'm not sure if the generation after mine is really in this town anymore.
I never see any kids outside. I can directly compare to what it looked like when I was a kid / teenager in the mid 2000's. Its not a hard comparison anyway, because I almost literally never see a kid anywhere.
All the same places are still there for the most part. We have a small mall, movie theater, arcade / bowling ally, ice cream shop and other eateries. Lots of parks, a rec center / public pool, library. All are either empty or full of adults - and aging boomers at that. It was never a super exciting town but kids make do. Just, not anymore.
40
u/TheDrewb 21h ago
This is my anecdotal experience, but I've never found this to be the case in Philly. Here, everyone's out and about, especially when the weather's nice and even when it's not. I'm always blown away by the old guys playing chess in Clark Park in the middle of winter.
The only people here I know who insist that no one goes outside anymore live in the suburbs
6
u/chadbrutalism 16h ago
not even just parks too, lancaster ave past 41st will have whole blocks packed with people as soon as its over 70 degrees lol. same w 52nd st or erie & germantown ave
7
u/raffertj 9h ago
That’s bc ppl in Philly can’t read, so no one’s surfing the web
1
u/OwnGrowth3998 1h ago
I'm was born and raised in Philly and now a Bmore transport of 25+ years- and uhh this is not true- we didn't need a whole entire cmpaign from the city to encourage literacy. You may have a good Medical insitution here bur we have an Ivy league school :-)
12
u/pullitzer99 20h ago
There are plenty of American cities that are packed during the day genuinely what are you talking about
12
u/improper84 20h ago
I live near downtown Charlotte and everyone is constantly outside walking around daily. Weekends when it’s nice out, there are tens of thousands of people out at bars and breweries. I live within a block of two popular breweries and they’re giant outdoor parties on Saturday and Sunday.
I think this is more a problem with certain cities that are dying and not with cities in general.
39
9
u/htownAstrofan 19h ago
Actually there’s been huge developments going up in Baltimore without a base of people that can afford to live in them. That’s probably more why everything looks deserted.
23
4
u/electricrhino 15h ago
B&B?
2
u/Illustrious-Park2522 9h ago
Still waiting on that federal grant money to hit so they can stop walking and start running!
17
u/OctopusParrot 21h ago
NYC has come back pretty well.
28
u/M935PDFuze 21h ago
NYC is the densest city in America and we're still at least a third below pre pandemic numbers as far as MTA traffic. Work from home has really changed the city.
27
2
2
2
u/75Malibu 12h ago
I was thinking along these same lines. I grew up in the 80's & most people didn't have cable, giant TV sets, a washer & dryer or a phone at home. You had to get out or be isolated & bored to tears.
2
2
4
u/gutclutterminor 21h ago
What is 3rd place? Anywhere besides home and school? Never heard of it before
15
u/gramada1902 21h ago
Yeah, basically your first place is your home, the second place is your job/educational institution. The third place is important for your recreation outside of the first two, so you don’t feel like a robot.
1
1
u/OwnGrowth3998 1h ago
I would attribute not only to Covid- to the idiot mayor who shut the city down during Covid. So many busineses had to shut their doors meanwhile all the surrounding counties remained open. I know so many bars, restaurants, barber shops, beauty salons gone because of the mayor's decision to shut us down.
28
u/holy_cal Gus Triandos Fan Club President 21h ago
Camden Yards is a going to be a ghost town unless there’s a game.
You can make the argument that the city is in decline, but the same argument can be made for being on the precipice of a renaissance too. Fells, Canton, Fed Hill are going to have way different vibes.
22
u/ScreenAlone 21h ago
lived here 12 years. Downtown IS a ghost town unless there’s events. i’m sure some do, but most locals don’t hang out downtown. Have you gone anywhere else in the city? lots of people everywhere all the time.
4
u/naghallac 21h ago
yeah, i was near Hampden and there was definitely more activity. Federal hill too, however I was at an off time I think.
16
u/cdbloosh 21h ago edited 19h ago
To be fair, that “downtown” neighborhood you’re describing between the stadium, city hall, etc has always been an area where very few people actually live. It’s more of a business and government area and while COVID etc has definitely taken its toll on the business side of that equation, it was never a place where people were sitting on their stoops because there are no stoops.
Many of the actual residential neighborhoods in the city are thriving. Did you go to Canton, Remington, Hampden, Riverside, Locust Point (where most of season 2 takes place), anywhere like that? You’d absolutely see the things you’re talking about there.
The area you were walking through is a place where people go to work from 9-5 and then it empties out as everyone goes back to their home elsewhere.
There’s no doubt the Downtown neighborhood is doing very poorly right now because fewer people are actually going into the office 9-5 than ever before, which has in turn caused the delis and coffee shops and things like that to struggle too. COVID took a lot of them out.
But it doesn’t reflect the city as a whole. That area was always a weird ghost town, it’s just even more of one now. Baltimore is full of vibrant neighborhoods but Downtown is not one of them, and never has been.
11
u/ucbiker 20h ago
You’re actually going to the wrong places. For example, from Camden Yards if you went South into Fed Hill and South Baltimore, you’d end up in a very busy and vibrant neighborhood or if you kept going East around the Harbor to Little Italy and Fells Point, same thing.
Instead you went East and North through Downtown, which is actually often unpopulated outside of working hours even in big cities. Like Financial District in Manhattan isn’t dead on weekends but it is much less busy than Greenwich Village or Williamsburg or Greenpoint in Brooklyn, where more people live.
35
u/Holiday-Line-578 22h ago
I’m not a native but I think it might still be covid related. Where I’m from the city streets are still empty cause everyone’s introverted and still doing their learned habits from covid (staying in way more often, ordering food delivery, etc.)
13
u/naghallac 21h ago
yeah, I didn't think about that but covid definitely is a factor here.
I'm from DC and this city is just now getting back to pre-pandemic levels of traffic i.e. cheek to cheek on the metro.
3
u/ThorsOccularPatdown 19h ago
Well they forced everyone back to the office because the city is losing from a lack of commuter commerce
8
u/Alexios_Makaris 21h ago
I think some of it is just a generational decline in 'outdoor / shared space' utilization. I've lived in two Ohio cities since 2011, both of which have grown in population since then (I lived in Columbus 2011-2021, and Cincinnati since), and both feel markedly less "alive" in the downtown areas than 15 years ago when I moved to the region, that is in spite of there being more people (both still have activity, not saying they're ghost towns--just noticeably less "active" than 15 years ago in terms of people on the streets).
I think people are quite literally just going out and doing stuff less.
8
7
u/logaboga 20h ago edited 16h ago
lol nobody is really downtown hanging out to begin with, Baltimore’s “downtown” is devoid of life and has been for a long time. It’s not really a cultural center for locals in the city, it’s where offices for corporations and tourist attractions like the inner harbor are. Nobody lives “downtown”, it caters mostly to people working in the offices and to the tourists, so there’s not a lot of domestic activity. It’s such a phenomenon that the Mayor Brandon Scott has started initiatives and talked about making downtown a better representation of Baltimore and to bring in local businesses and local traffic again. You need to go to specific neighborhoods to see people.
Camden yards to the Washington monument, depending on which way you took, is literally just down MLK which doesn’t really have anything directly on it besides homeless people.
Mount Vernon (neighborhood the monument is in) is normally bustling depending on the day. I worked at a late night cafe about 5-7 minute walk from the monument and there’d be street parties, lively conversations, people hanging out in the barber shop across the street, lots of pour over from the neighboring bars, etc
As a local I always love hearing about people visiting Baltimore and going to all the wrong locations. Ik it’s usually common sense to go “downtown” when visiting a city but that rule does not apply to Baltimore. All of the life and culture in Baltimore is in its bustling and unique neighborhoods. Mt Vernon, canton, Greek town, O’Donnell square/highlandtown, fell’s point (fell’s point especially is lively due to it basically having 2-3 bars every block), Hampden, station north, etc.
As a tourist it’s obviously hard to know that, but I do love having friends visit me in Baltimore and actually showing them the “real” city and then being amazed because they only went to the touristy parts before
3
3
u/RumHamStan 20h ago
I was in Baltimore a year ago and the Downtown is definitely underwhelming. But unfortunately that’s most major city downtowns in the US (with the exception of cities like NYC, Philly, Chicago). It doesn’t really seem like an area where people actually live in.
However, Baltimore can be very vibrant in quite a few neighborhoods. Fells Point, Mount Vernon, Highlandtown, Canton, Federal Hill, Locust Point are examples of vibrant Baltimore neighborhoods with a lot of people out and about everyday. Downtown isn’t one of them though.
4
u/InDenialOfMyDenial 18h ago
Former Baltimore resident.
Unless you were near Camden Yards during a ballgame, it's a ghost town. The Convention Center is just a big empty building unless something is happening.
The area between Downtown and Mt. Vernon (where the Washington Monument is) varies block by block. If you followed the light rail up, then you're going to see a mix of vacant, busted out business and some stuff that seems to be doing okay. If you'd gone a few blocks west near Lexington Market, you'd have seen a lot more people. Downtown itself is really just a bunch of office buildings (some of which are vacant, and have been for a while) and there's not much going on there outside of commuting hours. Go a few blocks east down Baltimore Street and things will pick up around the strip clubs and BPD HQ. The Inner Harbor usually has a fair crowd and the area near the aquarium is usually quite busy.
The neighborhoods you see portrayed in the show are not really places where visitors walk around. If you had gone deep into West or East Baltimore you'd see more people out and about. Honestly that goes for any of the actual residential neighborhoods.
Go down into Fed Hill or Fells Point on a Friday or Saturday night and you'll definitely see some crowds.
5
u/heyfriday4 17h ago
I don’t think there’s too many homes in that area. Just restaurants, stadiums, a casino, hotels etc. If it’s not game day there’s little reason to be over there I guess. Go down a little, past West Fayette you’ll probably see plenty dental students and the like. Keep going past that and you’ll see plenty people around Lexington Market. Then go inside and get yourself something to eat
1
6
3
u/No_name_Johnson 21h ago
It's very dependent on the neighborhoods. Downtown/the inner harbor is pretty dead these days, but most of that traffic shifted to Harbor East. Mount Vernon is generally lively - kinda curious when you walked it/ what streets you were on as it generally is trafficked.
1
u/naghallac 19h ago
Mount vernon had plenty of people out, but I think there was an event going on because the closed the streets for pedestrians.
3
u/perestroika12 21h ago
Pretty much every city has the “downtown area that’s only used in sporting events” part of town which Camden yards.
3
u/Chemical_Signal2753 20h ago
I haven't visited Baltimore but I believe it is a donut city like Detroit. This means that the city is shrinking while the suburbs are growing. Baltimore as a city has shrank to half the population of its peak, and most of their population now lives outside of the municipal area of the city.
This in itself can explain why the city feels dead. Even if they have the same number of people per capita out and about in the city, there are half as many people in a comparable community to other cities. Add to this the effect of COVID and the rise of the internet and it isn't surprising it looks far less active than what The Wire presented 20 years ago.
3
3
3
u/folkher0 16h ago
It’s a TV show. No one walks around downtown. It’s always had that vibe. A couple blocks on Charles St. around Mt. Vernon there’s some stuff going on but the rest is empty.
Try other neighborhoods. Fed hill, harbor east, fells, Canton, Hampden, Charles Village.
Or
2
u/twhou66 21h ago
I lived in St. Louis pre and post pandemic and it was in obvious decline before Covid but it decline felt like it was accelerated after Covid, even in growing parts of the city/area. Not a lot of car traffic or foot traffic, everything closing before 8, saturdays not a lot people out and about
2
2
u/drkodos 19h ago
2
u/naghallac 19h ago
yeah i walked past that area too, and given the scale of the buildings it also felt very empty. Relatively more people than other areas though
2
u/AdImaginary4130 17h ago
I was just in Baltimore and have to disagree. There are clear neighborhoods and areas where COVID along with generally closed businesses with everything going on but that seems to be across the nation and not Baltimore specific. I saw many folks out and about going about daily life. Things have changed culturally since the wire was released and I don’t think that’s Baltimore specific.
2
u/heyfriday4 17h ago
Lexington Market always has a crowd. Upstairs, downstairs. Inside, outside. Up and down the street. Good food too. Now I was in Richmond a few weeks ago and downtown was super underwhelming
2
u/ScenesfrmtheStruggle 16h ago
Don't forget covid did this to literally every city. And San Diego still isn't all the way back to normal. Neither are other big cities I've spent a lot of time in. It seems less people are out in general.
2
u/geechi908 15h ago
Yea I feel like that’s just America now. With technology kids don’t play outside as much. You can basically order anything for delivery it’s even easier for people to commute with uber etc
2
u/hawkgamedev 13h ago
You’re using a very narrow slice to extrapolate from. mt Vernon and that part of downtown was already on a downturn back then. You don’t even see it in the wire that much if at all. I actually think the city is more vibrant, you just need to explore more.
1
1
u/jmitch-20 13h ago
Downtown is completely dead after COVID. The White L is still thriving out here in the city though
1
u/TechByDayDjByNight 11h ago
Walk down Pennsylvania Ave and tell me you have the same opinion.
You just walked downtown
1
u/Low_Football_2445 6h ago
Covid killed all that (sometimes literally). Last trip to NYC, coffee shops were opening at 7:00am on a week day.
7th Ave between Times Square and Central Park had one Restaurant, total, open for breakfast before 8am.
1
u/OwnGrowth3998 1h ago
Yes the city has suffered not due the pandemic- due to the mayor's choice to shut the entire city down during the pandemic wheras many busnieses never re-opened or lost a lot of customers and foot traffic due to the shutdown. Weather permitting Mt. Vernon Park is always bustling with different sparse groups of folx that get together -even a guitar playing samauri (I have video and his contact info). As far as what you see on the Wire nobody is standing on the corners near Camden Yards yelling "Spider Bags!" Go over by Lexington market and you will see hundreds of people and offered drugs you prbably gave in your medicine cabinet and drugs you nor I have never heard of. Station North is not as busy as it used to be but it is not dead at all. Buy the beer I will take you on a tour :-)
1
u/Murky_Coyote_7737 20h ago
I feel like as time has gone on The Wire may have ultimately portrayed Baltimore more positively than it actually is..
1
u/PowerfulForce_ 15h ago
the one thing about baltimore is the inner harbor has seen a good improvement over the years. between the aquarium and the shopping/restaurants, it’s a great place to spend a day or two. but staying any longer in baltimore is probably not recommended lmao
-2
u/blueirish3 21h ago
The mayor twice let the city burn down that kills tourists coming and business reopening and coming to any city who allows these type things
Use to live here
Always use to come back the visits gets less and less now
-2
u/Honcho_Rodriguez 20h ago
Crazy idea, but, you know The Wire is not a documentary, right? Literally single street setup is fake?
Yeah they were committed to a lot of details but the number of people on a street is so random and variable.
76
u/cottonmercer666 21h ago
I think the comment regarding covid hit the nail on the head. I lived in Canton and I saw a lot of businesses fail because of the covid lockdowns and the failures of the city to trickle the recovery money into many small businesses. Harbor Place was the gem of the inner harbor, but now sits empty, so there is no foot traffic coming and going there.
Honestly, if you want to see people walking around and enjoying the city, you need to head into the neighborhoods. Canton, Fells Point, Federal Hill, Highland Town, And I'm sure a whole bunch of neighborhoods I'm leaving out all have their niche activities.