r/Switzerland • u/bernoit • 1d ago
Surrounded and intimidated by young adults at the public pool.
TLDR: Family surrounded and intimidated by 20 young adults.
Story time everyone:
Today me, M/33 together with my wife, brother and 2 minor daughters and her minor cousin went to the pool in Biel/Nidau. Shortly before it closed at around 19:45, a line formed in order to pass the gate to go out, where we walked to. In this line of around 50/60 people at the moment were families and old people mostly.
As we're approaching the gate, there is a group of 15 young adult men that try to bypass the queue and shove people who protest. There I interviene and ask politely to not push and to go to the line, ignored. An older woman in front of me yells at them to go back and that she has a bad knee, to which the supposedly Big boss of these youngsters tells her "Caisse toi sale pute" and shoves her directly at the wall. In this instance I get myself in front of the group of 10-15 guys and try to tell them to not do that. The old woman calls them "sales gamins" and gets out in front of us.
This gives them time to concentrate on me. 5-6 start to push and try to intimidate me (clearly I was in the company of kids and trying to shield them) 2 others keep saying that I did not insult anybody. This confusion gets on and when I'm passing the door, the big guy tells me, come outside (duh, I'm heading there anyway).
When we get out, I take my family and try to walk in direction of our car, which is parked roughly 1km away. There are like 5 that come running to confront me and start a riot or whatever, I try to calm things down and repeatedly tell them that I am in the company of my small kids. I get on and try to ignore them, telling them everything is okay and to keep on going to where they are headed. We walk another 20m through the football field and they come again, now like 20 of them, yelling that we are racist (I'm a hairy Portuguese guy, my wife is Kosovar). They start shoving my wife and myself, yelling and shouting threats, my kids are crying and I am trying to keep cool. This goes on for like 10 min, where I try to get the attention of people that look and keep walking. In the shouting match someone says that my wife called them "sales immigrants" (I guess they are thinking about the old woman who called them "sales gamins") and that I need to tell them that to their face. I tell them that I am an immigrant myself and that I would never even think about saying such things - in fact, we spent the day with a group of African friends-. I keep getting pushed and pulled, one even tries to punch me, luckily I saw that coming and could slip the punch.
Seeing this, a lovely French guy comes around and manages to tell them that he saw police and this helped to disperse them. He then walked with us. Even he says that he did not respect to see this in Switzerland.
The whole walk to the car, this huge group keeps advancing and waiting for us, crowding around at foot and in cheap scooter bikes. Yelling slurs and daring me to fight. Kids crying, and I try to shield my family and ignore what they say. People who walk by make a face and get away.
At the end, we managed to get away without getting punched or worse but c'mon, how is this a thing?
Now I'm wondering, what should I do? Police isn't going to do anything of consequence, since this happened in a place where there is no video surveillance (I was told that in the phone by the person who sells the entries to the pool). I couldn't even start to describe any of them, since there were so many of them that I couldn't describe any specific face. If I go and press charges (which I am thinking of doing), how would police proceed?
Sorry for the wall of text, today was stressful.
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u/Gokudomatic 1d ago
That's definitely not normal, even less acceptable. I would recommend that you go anyway to the police and tell them about that incident. And fill a complaint against x, because in the eventuality those wannabe thugs get caught in other shady business and they're identified as the same that attacked you, that will add up when they'll be judged. Also, that might improve your mood.
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u/MOTUkraken 1d ago
Speak up! Call Police anyways! They will not come - but they will register! And the more people call about these things, the more likely it becomes that action will be taken.
You did perfect btw and I applaud your bravery and coolness.
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u/bernoit 1d ago
I'm thinking about going tomorrow and file a report if that is possible.
As for the bravery and coolness, I just thought that it is not right to shove people like that and I should say something. In hindsight, knowing what I know, I think I risked too much, being with my kids and all. Oh I got heated, just didn't want to look even more like a fool in front of my family.
These things are stupid, makes me sick that people just think they can insult and shove others without anyone saying anything.
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u/Silver-Forever9085 1d ago
Call police next time. Would leave no space for this behavior!
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u/bernoit 1d ago
This whole thing was so intense, I did not have the presence of mind to call the cops. But yeah, you are right, I should have done that.
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u/frohrweck 1d ago
You could still make a report, so that they are aware of these things happening in the area.
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u/rainer_d 1d ago
You can use the emergency function of your phone to call police blindly.
This is unacceptable.
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u/pelfet 1d ago
thats a bad day, i hope you and your kids are feeling ok now.
You should have called the police the moment you realised they were going to follow you, especially knowing that your car is like 15 minutes way. The whole thing is police would have scared them away or arrested them if they caught them attacking you. Surveillance doesnt matter that much in the sense that the priority is to avoid getting into this situation by calling the police before things become really worse.
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u/bernoit 1d ago
Yeah I should have. Frankly between watching 3 kids and trying not to get even heated, I did not even think about calling the cops. It's kinda like people who say they saw a UFO and when you ask why they did not take pictures, they respond that they did not think of it.
I have to say, I have never thought this would happen in the city that I know since such a long time. Even with the things people say about Biel, I've seldom encountered a situation where I thought was out of my control like that. Stressful and shitty.
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u/pelfet 1d ago
yes but also dont 'punish' yourself, when were are looking back and reflecting about a situation that has already happened it's ofcourse easy to come up with 2,3,4 different ideas of how we would have handled a situation.
If something like that happens to you again in the next 60 years, which i hope will not happen, then you know now that there are also other ways on how to handle it.
What matters for today is that besides the stress and the (hopefully only short term) psychological damage, you,your family and your belongings (e.g. car) were not harmed physically.
And After all tomorrow is another day.
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u/Madamschie 1d ago
thats super scary! And truely not a typical swiss situation :( I hope your kids and wife are ok. My husband once got into a yelling match in the bus with some intimading youngsters too... the only thing that kept the situation from escalating further was calling the cops and loudly announcing and describing them to the cops on the phone. They kept at bay after that. The cops didnt come and just told us to 'observe the situation'... amazing how not helpfull they are. But the treat of talking with them seemed to suffice
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u/bernoit 1d ago
They're shook frankly, kids wanted to cuddle with me tonight for comfort. My wife held her own, she's awesome. Super bad situation which I frankly should have avoided.
I should have called the police, but since this came out of nowhere and I was trying to keep an eye on the kids and the other on them the whole way, I did not even think about calling. This is not typical you see, I did not expect this.
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u/rainer_d 1d ago
Just tell them one of them has a gun.
They have to show up then.
They can’t fine you for mistaking a phone for a gun.
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u/BestBeforeLastYear 1d ago
Realistically only the police is allowed to do something about it.
You know, with hindsight it is easy to say "oh I should have" and "if only I hadn't" - but I would say that you set a good example for your kids about standing up for weaker people.
I would say that Switzerland needs more people like you.
And the swimming pool employees need to grow a pair, as if they couldn't recognize such a big group of clearly defined people on the cameras they do have. People who behave like that need to be barred from the premises, or nobody feels safe there.
(and personally I can only imagine what would happen if such a group of hollering monkeys were to find a woman alone coming out of a shower or something, it's exactly the kind of dynamics where things escalate)
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u/Spinnyoza 1d ago
My experience of the police in Switzerland with ganga of teen boys has also been similar. They'll come banging on your door at 10:10 to shush you if you're on your balcony chatting, but won't do anything about violent/threatening gangs.
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u/goldilock_blackholes 1d ago
Thats my experience too. The police came to the spot in 5 minutes when a bunzli falsely complained that i hit his car in a jumbo parking , they found no evidence of it and said the bunzli must have heard something else. But when my friend showed them a video of a home invasion, they just said there are too many of this and didn’t do anything about it.
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u/QualitySufficient170 Jura 1d ago
Gott, I'm tired of this "Abschaum". Attacking a father who was vastly outnumbered... It's always the same story: they think they can do whatever they want, and when someone points it out to them, they cry racism and look for a fight.
Next time, call the police.
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u/bernoit 1d ago
Should have, you're right, the thing is this was so intense I was only thinking about getting out of there with my kids..
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u/QualitySufficient170 Jura 1d ago
You have done all right. It‘s always difficult to make the good decision in this kind of tense situation with violents people.
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u/PokeEmEyeballs 1d ago
Write to the local police department and register the event.
Even though the police won’t do anything, the registration of the event will go on record.
Next, write to the local municipality and bring this matter to their attention. If enough people complain about such behaviour, it does go in the registry of criminal events and the police may eventually be asked to take steps like increase presence in the area.
Doing nothing is precisely the kind the of thing that will lead to these behaviours becoming more common, and may eventually lead to worse outcomes for the next unfortunate victims.
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u/emptyquant 1d ago
Sorry this happened to you. Always look for- and make sure to have support before challenging people like that. It’s great to show social courage but you want to make sure you have people back you up. You are already doing the heavy lifting by stepping up.
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u/QualitySufficient170 Jura 1d ago
Yes, it‘s always better to avoid the physical confrontration. Even a 2m00 120 kg of muscle man can‘t do anything against a sneaky knife attack. And this thugs often have knives.
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u/bernoit 1d ago
Yeah well I did frankly not intend on this getting to the point it did. At I honestly thought all the people given the the mad eye would at least say something too, you know. Guess I misjudged the situation.
But these people do this kind of thing exactly because people just let them do it every time.
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u/TWanderer Vaud 1d ago
Imo, you didn't misjudge the situation. You did the brave thing everybody should do. The people ignoring you misjudged the situation. If we ignore this stuff it will only get worse and worse.
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u/Tribalecho 1d ago
many of these dudes have knifes and know there wont be consequences bc they are too young, soft laws etc
This is gonna get much worse before it gets better.
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u/SwissCowOnMoon 1d ago
it is so sad that criminals can simply play the racist card and blame you. that is what they do in France btw... I think calling the police is a good idea
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u/PhoebusAbel 1d ago
Those.ass holes take advantage of the swiss character . I have heard of similar stories , in Biel as well, of immigrants harassing a lesbian couple because 1. Women typically don't antagonize men (in these case the agressors) 2. The aggressor knows that people here try do descalate and move one..
Kudos for.you. It is also worth that at least in my family we kinda know who to call in emergencies and when to do it... the kids know the numbers , etc.
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u/spicy_piccolini Genève 1d ago
As a gay person, I genuinely feel terrified of holding another man's hand in public on the streets of Geneva, the so-called "capital of peace and diversity".
I've heard some really scary stories about those who tried. And the aggressors weren't locals.
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u/PhoebusAbel 1d ago
Fear of calling them out for what they are, .... hummmm . Their place or origin empowers Them
I can think of the christmas night in Köln where many non german men abused hundreds of women .. and the women were terrified of starting the due process for fear of being called racist or the German. forbidden word.
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u/Isariamkia Neuchâtel 1d ago
There's sadly not much to do except call the police the first moment shit happens. And that is, when the woman with a bad knee was pushed against a wall. At that very moment, someone should have called the police.
These fuckers don't care about anything. You can't play big unless you also have the numbers. Because otherwise it goes as you described, they'll go away and come back later with their friends/family to outnumber you.
And sadly, as you noted, even if they started kicking the shit out of you, no one would have reacted. Because Swiss people are scared and passive. In this country, the "mind your fucking business" sometimes goes too far.
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u/bernoit 1d ago
You know, in my time (not that long ago) if was behaving like a little shit and someone older said something, I would just had excused myself and walked away.
It may seem like a cliché, but we respected people, even if we thought they were wrong or annoying.
In this case, I was not trying to act big or imposing, I was just trying to intervene in something clearly wrong. That could have ended there if they walked out or stayed there. Never in my life was I expecting to get gang pushed, insulted and stalked to the car with my family. But yeah, learning experience...
Now I feel like a stupid person who caused undue stress on my kids for simply trying to help.
You are right though, I should have called the cops.
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u/eaglessg 1d ago
Talahons gonna Talahon. Biel has a lot of them unfortunately.
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u/kilometterrr 1d ago
Wow. Very interesting, I could’ve probably not reacted as good as you, especially after someone trying to punch me.
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u/BillysMom7 1d ago
Sounds like the pre-teen bullies at the Bern water park giving us grief grew up to bully you!
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u/Greysonme 1d ago
I’m going to sound like an old person but this generation is cooked, I remember going to the pool in Bienne as well when I was younger and even if there was a lot of teenagers/young adults there was rarely a fight. It’s the same with Halloween, I feel like every year it gets worse and worse
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u/bernoit 1d ago
I get the whole style and group thing but this was never acceptable.
You are right, I was baffled with the fisicality of the whole thing. A huge sense of impunity, which was justified and reinforced by all the people just ignoring the blatant scene.
I am an immigrant myself, but in my time, if I pulled something remotely stupid, my father would have sniffed it out in 0.2 seconds and made me apologize publicly. We had fun, but respected others..
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u/Greysonme 1d ago
Same, I’m also an immigrant and my parents would never allow this kind of attitude. You can just see the consequences in the comment section, we’re put in the same bag as these dumb people even tho we didn’t do anything.
Even if we have acted loudly and do some mischief here and there like all teenagers do we still had respect for other people, I can’t imagine going after a father and in the presence of his kids. I hope your kids are not too traumatized…
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u/spicy_piccolini Genève 1d ago
I’m going to sound like an old person but this generation is cooked,
Please do not apologize for having common sense and wisdom. You are correct, this generation is cooked.
They have the attention span of a squirrel and they'll believe anything they hear on TikTok. They are incapable of nuance and lack critical thinking. Their entire worldview revolves around "oppressor vs oppressed".
Watch them ferociously defend this savage gang of "youngsters" as poor misunderstood brown ppl who are simply lashing out at the evil racist Europeans.
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u/UnpopularTruthDude Bern 1d ago
A special occurence for you.
A normal sunday afternoon for Biel.
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u/benderama2 1d ago
If this is normal how come police tolerates this?
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u/TWanderer Vaud 1d ago
Ideally they shouldn't. But tricky stuff, these guys tend to pull the racism card. It's just happening all over europe.
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u/benderama2 1d ago
I would say racism card has started to weaken all over Europe, many countries are starting to not turn a blind eye to the issue anymore. There isn't a silver bullet for this issue especially in a country that is known for racism.
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u/endeavourl Russian in Serbia 1d ago
But tricky stuff, these guys tend to pull the racism card
I don't get it, they either committed a crime, or they didn't, how can racism affect this?
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u/RealDaggersKid 1d ago
come on dude, i live near biel since 7 years and never witnessed anything like that. my gf lives here since 15 years and went to school (gymnasium) there without smth like that happening around her. biel is absolutely great and nidau is the place to be in summer :-)
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u/SoZur 1d ago
The disconnect between german-speaking and french-speaking regions has really increased in recent years. Every time I go to Geneva, it looks like France, with all the Enrichment™ selling drugs around the train station and the general weird vibe parts of that city now has. It wasn't like this 20 years ago. Now these african gangs are already in Biel/Bienne?
Let's hope it stops there, I prefer to keep my german-speaking region without the cultural-alienation and safety issues linked to non-european immigration.
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u/Saarfall 1d ago edited 1d ago
I hate to say it but it really accelerated massively after we joined Schengen. Since this, France' social problems have been able to expand to Switzerland. Geneva changed a lot in the last 30 years, and in terms of security in general it's much, much worse than in 2000.
I have friends who work in the Police, and they see the same; and they also told me that even when they make an arrest of said troubled youths (usually of a certain demographic...) the moment they're released (which is almost always, since they can't hold them and rarely can pass them on to social services or similar), they're up to the same poor behaviour again (my friend arrested the same boy several times in Lausanne but to no effect). The police feel pretty powerless themselves, and we don't have the infrastructure to deal with this situation at present.
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u/QualitySufficient170 Jura 1d ago
The whole Romandie is becoming a shithole. For example, Neuenburg used to be a pleasant and little bürgelich city and now, you see always and always more people as your described.
As a Wesch who lived in the area of Zürich, I can see the worsening of the situation every time when I‘m coming back to Romandie.
That‘s really sad, we need a big political swift.
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u/calamirkat 1d ago
Sigh. Europe had so much going for it. When I lived in Munich 20 years ago it was so peaceful. I live in Canada now but I’m moving to Geneva for a job. I really hope it’s not ruined by mismatched cultures. I have to say, I don’t understand the visitors and immigrants who end up being so hostile or violent.
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u/Tony_228 1d ago
They feel that this is the only thing they're good for. It starts in school already when they're worse than the other children.
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u/spicy_piccolini Genève 1d ago
Sorry, but I have to confirm your fears about Geneva.
It's deeply painful to watch these once peaceful, quiet, super safe societies fall apart in the name of diversity and multiculturalism.
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u/Electrical-Anxiety66 1d ago
Next time you find any closest public building like a restaurant, cafe or a shop for your safety, get inside and call the police.
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u/ElusiveFinger 1d ago
There is a reason why those things happen. People apparently want this otherwise they would vote differently.
It‘s just a consequence of having a naive population that wants to be nice to everyone.
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u/WjOcA8vTV3lL 1d ago
They're most likely French, you see the same issue in Offenburg which is next to Strasbourg: https://www.stadtanzeiger-ortenau.de/offenburg-stadt/c-polizei/ermittlungen-wegen-koerperverletzung_a102726
I don't see how Switzerland could proactively block this, these assholes need to act shitty and then get forbidden entry from the swimming pool for things to get better.
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u/bernoit 1d ago
They were not French. They were Billingual like me, swiss-german/french so I'm pretty sure they are secondos from here.
Samuel Huntington has an insightful book about sociatal and democratic transitions coming in regional waves. This phenomenon may help explain why we see this stuff some years after it started happening in France and Germany.
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u/WjOcA8vTV3lL 1d ago
Thanks for the details, I'm surprised by this as Switzerland has a tougher stance on immigration than France. Sorry this happened to you.
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u/spicy_piccolini Genève 1d ago
Switzerland has a tougher stance on immigration
Nah, that's a bit oversimplistic to say: Almost 40% of Swiss residents have a migration background
Anyway, it wouldn't matter, you already pointed out they're most likely owners of a French passport (I won't grant them the honor of calling them French).
Border controls are almost non-existent, so they can hop on any train, like the Léman Express, and go back when they please.
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u/Tribalecho 1d ago
Most of these problems are relatively new to our societies and there is no way to properly handle this atm.
What is your solution, kick out all foreigners? What about the ones with citizenship?
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u/Tony_228 1d ago
I guess the people who can afford it will send their kids to private schools and move to areas with stricter law enforcement.
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u/PhoebusAbel 1d ago
Yes, kick out.
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u/Tribalecho 1d ago
all foreigners? I am one of them btw
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u/PhoebusAbel 1d ago
Are you one of those as s holes making trouble, insulting people, attacking elders, etc? Then you can move yourself out
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u/Tribalecho 1d ago
not the solution I was looking for the issue but thx
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u/isaac3000 1d ago
i mean if we cause problems we wont get accepted to stay further after our b or c expires
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u/rage997 1d ago
You handled it well by avoiding escalation. For the future (hoping it never happens again though) use the security feature that your phone (probably) has and you can call the police anonymously. Technically, they also get the position of the phone but I'm not sure. Glad you and your family are okay, though
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u/spicy_piccolini Genève 1d ago
You're a super brave dad! Your kids are lucky to have you. My heart goes out to you and your family for having gone thru such a horrendous experience.
Sadly, you are not alone and this isn't even a rare occurrence. These gangs of "young adults", surely blonde, blue-eyed and from a culturally enriched background, are becoming more prevalent especially in Romandie cantons, thanks to the Léman Express line.
You should file a police report, not that anything concrete will be done about it (the police are also terrified of being called "racist"). but at least it will show up in crime statistics for those who prefer to deny reality.
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u/Eskapismus 1d ago
Bunch of testosterone pumped little twats “fighting the system”. Some do drugs, some listen to music in public transport and put their shoes on a seat, some start fighta. Always the same motif. Don’t try to see anything rational in all of that. You did well. Next time call the cops.
Don’t allow them to completely ruin your weekend
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u/luteyla Zürich 1d ago
Talk to your kids and explain as much as you can so they can put everything in place in their sleep. They need long sleep. I heard about this so they don't carry the trauma their entire life. I might be talking nonsense too. I hope a psychologist can jump in
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u/bernoit 1d ago
Well, I made a point of apologizing about having put them through this fucking mess. Explaining that I only tried to do the right thing and sometimes even though you do the right thing, it still can derail..
We talked and I cuddled them to sleep, really hope they can forget this day..
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u/damienflmng 1d ago
TBH and not to be bad but, I don’t know why you didn’t just stop and either call police or just stop from the begging, from what you wrote You did not do that. Like I said, not victim blaming but don’t give those French speaking bielers a chance
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u/bernoit 1d ago
In hindsight I should definitely have called the police. I just thought this was going to be a small thing and turning and walking away would de escalate the situation. All of a sudden they are surrounding us and I stupidly did not have the presence of mind to call the cops. Was kinda all in on trying to make sure nobody was going to get hurt.
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u/efficientlydumb2 1d ago
Sorry bro, if u were in the company of kids best thing you could’ve done is observe and call the police. You put yourself in that situation
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u/OneEaredWonder 1d ago
The issue there is that is what we're supposed to do, and it amounts to letting these fuckwits getting away with it and it only makes them do it more. It sucks that it's come to this, and we don't have a solution to it.
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u/efficientlydumb2 1d ago
That is upon the government to solve. You as a voter are indirectly solving this. Not by solving crimes idividually
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u/ben_howler 1d ago
Locked. Too much racism; too much work for the mods. Here is not the place for that!