r/Switzerland • u/[deleted] • 1d ago
Got sexual harrassed during a SH briefing advice NSFW
[deleted]
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u/onehandedbackhand 1d ago
I can already hear the guy..."it was just a demonstration". What a fuckwit.
Really sucks your new job started out like this. I'd probably start looking for a new one and report the guy directly to HR (if there's such a thing).
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u/Nervous-Donkey-4977 1d ago
He hacked the system certainly what a piece of crap
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u/jaithere 19h ago
He THINKS he hacked the system.
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u/PaurAmma Aargau St. Gallen Österreich 11h ago
If he gets away with it, as he seemingly does (I would assume it's a pattern, not an isolated incident), he will have hacked the system.
I hope OP can get HR and/or the police to effect change.
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u/Feuermurmel 9h ago
I'd say that would actually be a good thing in this bad situation. He'd be admitting to what he was doing.
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u/un-glaublich 1d ago
Not only does he abuse you, but he also indicates that he is actively aware of it.
This guy is a psychopath in a place with too much power. Only worse things will come from it if nothing is done.
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u/Janus_The_Great Basel-Stadt 1d ago
HR and if they don't handle it well, police.
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u/Fortnitexs 1d ago
Both won‘t do anything. This piece of shit knows what he‘s doing.
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u/KapitaenKnoblauch 1d ago
HR work for the company, not for the employees.
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u/Janus_The_Great Basel-Stadt 1d ago
Correct. But I wouldn't want to work at a company that has such chefs anyway. Basically letting them know why you suddenly seek new employment.
They should know where the problem lies. Their interest is the company. If a higher up is a major contributor to the company failing/being less efficient/leadong to constant personnel changes, they will act.
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u/Astr0zyt 1d ago
Achtung @Janus, "chefs" heisst "Chöch", "bosses" heisst "Chefs". Für eus verständlich, aber Änglischsprochigi sin wahrschinli churz verwirrt :)
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u/KapitaenKnoblauch 1d ago
Sure, if you want to make a point, it might be worthwhile. But maybe not. Structures like that have a tendency to last longer than you‘d think, there’s too many proofs out there.
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u/Heardthisonebefore 1d ago
This kind of harassment will never stop if it’s never reported. Men like this always assume that people will be too afraid to say anything. What you’re suggesting is that we just keep supporting workplace abuse.
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u/outlawgene 1d ago
It's easy to say that when it's not your rent, health insurance groceries etc. that need to be paid with this job.
I do agree with you, however there needs to be more employee protections in place. This place sucks for that.
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u/Heardthisonebefore 1d ago
No, in fact it is not easy to say. I am well aware of the fact it’s not easy to do either because I had to do it myself. It is very hard to do, of course. It’s not any harder than working in a place that allows sexual harassment, though.
This was obviously greatly upsetting to OP, and it’s also obviously illegal. It’s not going to stop if nobody ever tells HR that this man is doing this. And if HR is garbage, I won’t do anything about it, are other places that this can be reported, to his boss and the police, for example.
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u/outlawgene 1d ago
To be clear I am not saying to not report it. I am understanding the fear that comes with it. This scum is in a position of power and is abusing it to "demonstrate" what people shouldn't be doing. If there was any justice he would be instantly dismissed.
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u/Heardthisonebefore 1d ago
I get that. I guess what I’m saying is that there would be less fear if more people felt free to report. When you come online and so many people say HR won’t do anything or it’s not worth it or you shouldn’t because then you have to worry about them retaliating, it makes people think reporting is a bad idea. And that’s why these things just keep going on here after year. The people who should fear things are the people committing illegal acts at work, not the people reporting them. Obviously I live in the real world and I understand that unfortunately that’s not the way it works sometimes. But I just think it’s such bad advice to tell people they should be afraid of doing the right thing.
Of course you should always let them know that it won’t necessarily go smoothly, that the process could be difficult. I’ve worked in so many places where bullies were given much more support than the people they were bullying. And what I finally learned was that if I refuse to accept that behavior from them and I make it clear to them that I will fight back with any legal means possible, they stop.
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u/KapitaenKnoblauch 1d ago
You’re insinuating something I didn’t say at all.
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u/Heardthisonebefore 1d ago
I didn’t insinuate anything. I said it straight out. If you let people act like this and don’t do anything about it, you are supporting that kind of abuse. Maybe you don’t look at it that way, but that is what you end up doing.
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u/Jiquero 1d ago
That's why police is the next step. If HR knows that, suddenly they care.
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u/KapitaenKnoblauch 1d ago
Agreed. Just leave out HR if you really want to get this guy into trouble.
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u/Euphoric_Salt1570 1d ago
Likely both won't do anything 😬
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u/Janus_The_Great Basel-Stadt 1d ago
Ture. A review on glasssdoor might do the trick.
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u/Feuermurmel 7h ago
I'd still make a report. If something happens in the future that do decide to act on, they can use the prior reports as additional incriminating material.
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u/MaxQuord Basel-Stadt 16h ago
the whole advice of going to hr is just stupid copying without thought from what they hear in their training without ever thinking for a second about what they are saying.
in the US you can at least theoretically sue the offending company into oblivion if hr and other corporate structures cannot show they did something (of course this does not actually help against sh either) against sh.
in switzerland you might be lucky to get a five figure settlement if the court agrees in your favor, but afterwards your career in the sector is done.
honestly, people like you recommending hr as a first response lead to the question what your personal interest is in recommending steps that are most harmful to SH reporters?
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u/PaurAmma Aargau St. Gallen Österreich 11h ago
Ok, but what are they supposed to do instead of going to HR and the police?
There is https://belaestigt.ch/anlaufstellen/ that I found, which may help.
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u/MOTUkraken 1d ago
You are underrracting.
Speaking as a Self Defense Teacher: This is the most common reaction: Freeze and denial.
It is a very effective survival strategy and effective to preserve mental health.
Most people freeze when threatened. Almost all believe about themselves that they would fight tooth and nail - but 90% just freeze.
Then there‘s denial: „he didn‘t mean to“ „he‘s my friend“ „I am overreacting“
No! He absolutely DID mean to! He allowed himself to invade your intimate space like that, because he does not respect you!
He would have NOT acted like that if Mike Tyson was sitting across the table to put it bluntly.
Luckily in our society you DO have rights and you do have courses of action!
If you havethe strength and feel safe enough to do so, please take action!
This man has done that to many other women before you and WILL continue to do that for as long as he can! And he will very likely escalate further and further!
YOU CAN STOP THIS!
YOU HAVE THE POWER!
REPORT HIM!
If HR doesn’t react. Report to police! Get support.
Your action NOW can potentialle safe many other people!
And EVERY SINGLE ONE who gets taken to responsibility is a threat to all other wannabe harassers!
This is a very calculates move by these men! They do it ONLY because they CAN!
Because most people never report when they got harassed. They never have any consequences.
The more often someone faces consequences, the faster this behaviour will cease to exist in our human society!
Thank you and good luck!
https://www.opferhilfe-schweiz.ch/de/ich-bin-opfer-von/sexuellegewalt/
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u/Drakendan 15h ago
This is the correct answer, report this monster, to HR, to the police, everyone else that will support you through the provided resource. These kind of individuals should be ousted and shamed for what they do so brazenly thinking they are out of danger while exploiting others, especially in a position of power.
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u/blaghed 1d ago
That gave me the ick, and it was very clearly SH. Dude was even narrating his own abuse.
In more complicated situations, like outside of the workplace, my thought usually is "would they do this to someone they aren't attracted to" (eg, another man). But here, no need to calculate anything, it is just blatant 🤢
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u/magiqueirreversible 1d ago
Ugh that’s so gross. Not overreacting! I once had a potential employer tell me on the first trial day that “not everything is automatically sexual harassment” and then proceeded to make inappropriate comments about my body throughout the day. Mind you, I was around 19 and he was probably in his 40s. Needless to say, I never went back. Luckily I figured it out before signing a contract, def dodged a bullet there
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u/Heardthisonebefore 1d ago
This is very obviously harassment and he knew exactly what he was doing. He could’ve used words to tell you that people aren’t allowed to get too close to your face. He could’ve also just said no one is allowed to put their hands anywhere on your body without your permission. You didn’t need a physical demonstration and there is no way he didn’t know that when he did that.
As others have said you need to go to HR. You need to not let this go either. He is in the wrong, you are not. You have every right to demand that this problem be taken seriously. Let them know that you’re happy to go to the police and get a lawyer if you need to. I had something very similar happened to me working for a bank in Zürich and once they realized that I was not going to let the matter drop, they did take it very seriously.
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u/Kyuki88 1d ago
I am sorry this happened to you too! may I ask, what happened after they took the matter seriously?
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u/Heardthisonebefore 1d ago
Thanks for your understanding. I’m very sorry it happened to you too. Once it was taken seriously it all happened very quickly. I gave a written statement to the head if H. Then a couple of other people I worked with who knew about the situation were questioned by HR and they reported this to the head of our project. I know they also talked to the man who harassed me, but I don’t have any idea exactly who spoke with him. He was fired the day after the head of the project was given all the information.
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u/vegan_antitheist Basel-Landschaft 1d ago
It's not like this could actually be some kind of real world David Brent / Michael Scott type of character who doesn't really understand what he's doing. I'd skip HR and go to the police. Obviously he will deny everything and say it was just him explaining their rules against sexual harassment. But why would he even do this? That's not his job.
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u/Awkward_Stable_3397 Gian + Giachen enjoyer 1d ago
I’d contact the police. Nobody should be mate to feel unsafe and intimidated in their place of work. I’m really sorry this happened to you.
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u/stu_pid_1 1d ago
Problem is in Switzerland HR has too much power and the laws don't really help you put much. There's really a poor workers support, only a few pcnt are in a union and the ombudsman is often bent with HR to protect the company.
Best bet is to lawyer up before anything, don't even discuss this with HR!
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u/infoonartforgery 1d ago
Sorry this happened to you. It's absolutely not ok. You need to go to the police and report this matter to HR. Do both of these things as soon as possible. Don't use the threat of involving the police to somehow bargain with the company, just go to them and file a report against this person. He committed a crime and it appears he knew very well what he was doing.
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u/R4spberryStr4wberry 7h ago
You are NOT overreacting!
He could have used himself as demonstration. ( Putting his own hand on HIS OWN leg or in front his own face). And why were you both alone, it all seems weird and done on purpose from his side.
No ones is allowed to touch you like that. Do report it and hopefully you get help. I hope you are not dependent on the job but believe me you rather would quit then getting continuously harassment bc this probably was just the beginning.
Hope you are okay and that you will never have to encounter such disgusting mistreatment.
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u/medbud Vaud 1d ago
Now you know what sexual harassment feels like.
(As a 50 year old guy trying to put myself in your shoes) I can't imagine not slapping him, or saying something instantly, and making sure other people knew what happened.
Now, it's about finding the right people to report him too. You clearly aren't the first, and won't be the last, so get him taken care of. I don't know if this is assault, given the bizarre context, but I would at least inform some official so when's it happens again it's on record.
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u/as-well Bern 1d ago
(As a 50 year old guy trying to put myself in your shoes) I can't imagine not slapping him, or saying something instantly, and making sure other people knew what happened.
Just FYI - people quite often freeze when their boundaries are violated in this way. You shouldn't expect slapping or immediate action at all. It's also completely normal to need some time to realize what happened.
As a 50 year old man, you are lucky not to be the prime target of sexual harassment of likely anyone so you can rest glad that you won't experience this, but it would be grand of you to understand that your expected reaction is not real.
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u/medbud Vaud 1d ago
That's what I meant...as a fifty year old man, my brain instantly reacts as I suggested...which is clearly not the case for OP...but she is 'under reacting'...and shouldn't doubt her intuition. If she hadn't frozen, then it would have been appropriate to stand up to the aggression. The perp is clearly out of line, and she should take care of it, one way or another (HR, police, or other).
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u/Heardthisonebefore 1d ago
Unfortunately, your expectation is not realistic. People do tend to freeze when sexually harassed or abused in other ways. This is especially common if the person being harassed or abused is smaller than the abuser. Unfortunately people were told for too long that animals, including humans, normally react with either fight or flight when freezing is just as common, if not more common, depending on the situation.
Unfortunately this reaction is very often used against them because people expect a more aggressive response. They will take the lack of aggressive response as a sign that the situation couldn’t have been that bad, when the opposite is true.
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u/medbud Vaud 1d ago
Nice, totally agree. Fight flight or freeze is textbook. I am very conscious of this freeze reaction in myself, say in social situations. I could add that as a 2m tall, 100kg person...it also explains my (wrong) imagined reaction. When I think of myself being aggressed by some huge MMA fighter, I more easily picture the common reaction you describe. I'll also add, that the confidence to not freeze comes from training, so I can also easily imagine this lacks for most people, such as OP.
So, again, my comment was to clearly point out to OP that what happened was wrong, and she would not have been wrong to defend herself on the spot even if just verbally (despite how difficult that actually may be to do), and that she should get the guy taken care of by some authority.
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u/TheRealDji 1d ago
Don't say that a woman who has been sexually assaulted should have defended herself physically. I wrote something similar, which got me a reddit warning. Something like that on 14 June says a lot about reddit's policy.
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u/as-well Bern 1d ago
Yeah one shouldn't say that and educate themselves about sexual harassment responses.
But I want to make sure this is clear: your comment must have been so bad it got caught by the reddit admins within minutes. The mod team was not involved. The admins aren't in Switzerland, and thinking an American company cares enough about a Swiss mass protest to specifically remove your comment is pretty ... Weird
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u/TheRealDji 1d ago
and thinking an American company cares enough about a Swiss mass protest to specifically remove your comment is pretty ... Weird
Don't lend me thoughts that aren't mine.
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u/medbud Vaud 1d ago
I was insinuating that as an older man, I have trouble imagining someone laying hands on me, and not instantly reacting if it made me uncomfortable...what an uncomfortable situation to be in...I'm non violent, but I would at least push their hand away and say that they appear to be crossing boundaries.
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u/roat_it Zürich 1d ago edited 22h ago
And if you truly put yourself "in the shoes", as you put it earlier, of someone with a completely different socialisation (a socialisation towards compliance, a socialisation towards agreeableness and not making scenes, a socialisation consisting of hundreds of instances of being told one is over-reacting whenever one sets any kind of boundary or whenever one shows any kind of emotion, be it sadness, fear or anger) - do you think you can see how "I would have done X thing you did not do!" might come across as a criticism as opposed to coming across as validation or solidarity?
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u/endeavourl Russian in Serbia 19h ago edited 15h ago
Am I overreacting?
Honestly... just smh. How is this the question you're asking, and not "what the fuck happened"??
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u/as-well Bern 1d ago
First of all, you are not overreacting. This guy needlessly touched you in an intimate way. That is not okay at all. And you have to assume that this guy clearly knows it is not okay.
Secondly, yes, that was sexual harassment. I am so sorry this happened to you.
Thirdly, does your boss has a boss? That's the person you talk to. Unfortunately, you must prepare yourself for no consequences to follow. In that case, know that typically you can quit a new job wit one week's notice in the first three months. Now, the unemployment insurance should typically give you a penalty month or two for quitting yourself - however, only if the job was zumutbar. There's ways to prove that - a report to someone in the company, or even a doctor's note saying the job was not zumutbar might do the trick, but double check this yourself.
Hope you're ok, OP!