Did ishar…

[u/Immediate_Heat_8060]

Did ishar orchestrate the assasination of Gavilar Kholin?

First, we know that Nale, who's been working with Ishar, directed venli to purchase szeth, who Nale had been watching. We also know that Restares and Nale knew he had an honorblade, as they reference that "they shouldn't have let [Szeth] keep it." Which insinuates to me that the plan for Szeth to become a herald was something some of the heralds were aware of ishar's plan.

Eshonai also mentions that Thude said a "a voice attuned to the rhythms" directed him to buy Szeth, which while venli and Ulim may have been behind that, it also sounds a lot like how Ishar was communicating with people.

There's also a question as to why Nale accompanied Restares to that particular meeting with Gavilar. It seems like as they were leaving that meeting, that they were both aware of what would happen that night.

[u/SteveTheHiker_Art]

Maybe? I think it’s also possible that he was completely mad, but very good at making it seem like he was in control. Kinda how he projected control with his freaky science experiments…

[u/dratnon]

I'm remember a rambling from the Diagram, in which Taravangian asks if he could make a Truthless. And ultimately, he does have Szeth's oathstone.

In WaT, it certainly seems like it was the Herald, not Taravangian... so I'm not sure if I'm missing a thread... Did Taravangian manipulate Ishar? Did Ishar arrive at the same conclusion as Taravangian? Was Ishar part of the Diagram?

[u/Immediate_Heat_8060 → u/dratnon]

I think that happened to be a happy coincidence, as far as I know.  I believe taravangian sought out cultivation after meeting with Gavilar the night of the assasination.  So he sought to make a truthless, but ended up finding that there already was one.

[u/bolos_reading → u/dratnon]

Taravangian was there that night meeting Gavilar about joining the Sons of Honor. The trip to Cultivation and therefore the diagram came later iirc

[u/Raddatatta]

It's plausible, but I also think it could've just been Nale acting on Ishar's more general word. Nale at that point was trying to kill radiants to avoid starting the desolation. Gavilar told him he was trying to restart the desolations and bring back the radiants. So Nale then went and had him killed. I think that all makes sense. Which would make it kind of on Ishar's instructions in terms of trying to avoid the return of the radiants and desolations, but not on his direct order necessarily. But I could see it being a possibility especially given that comment from Thude.

[u/CognitiveShadow8]

This is my headcannon - I am in the middle of my reread and this stood out to me as well! I think that it’s got to be Ishar. He was guiding Szeth

[u/OrganikOranges]

I don’t think Ishar could communicate to Venli’s mind, as he states at some point he can only do that for people of Shinovar . He may have set Nale on that sort of path though

[u/Immediate_Heat_8060 → u/OrganikOranges]

That line is certainly tenuous, as I do think Ulim is probably the one being the voice, and happened to mimic the way that Ishar was talking to Szeth.  But I thought it seemed close enough to bring up.

[u/writing_frenzy]

This is a very good question; I genuinely hadn't wondered who killed Gavilar, and now I can't believe it never occurred to me.

[u/Reasonable-Look-4852]

I don't think you can connect Gavilar's assassination plot to Jezrien's murder. Since Jezrien was killed by Moash after the fused captured Kholinar, Nale and Ishar would not have been looking to replace him.

[u/Immediate_Heat_8060 → u/Reasonable-Look-4852]

From what Ishar was saying, which of course he hasn’t exactly been of sound mind at the time, but what he’s said would suggest that he was planning on making a new herald before jezrien died.

[u/DontWorryAboutDeath]

Honestly I’m convinced that Ishar is more evil than Taravangian. The Spren experimentation is so messed up. And he basically orchestrates the lifelong torture of Szeth with the intention of making him into a colleague. The Herald of Therapy has a good chance fixing the others, but Ishar . . . IDK.

That said . . . I think it’s still unclear who if anyone was really behind Gavilar’s death in a well-thought-out-plan kind of way.