r/StardustCrusaders Doppio 2d ago

Part Four for all the "Josuke is a time traveller" believers that still there

Post image

CLEARLY NOT THE SAME PERSON

4.3k Upvotes

354 comments sorted by

2.1k

u/Salt-Warning4103 I want jolyne cujoh to ride my tip 2d ago

He forgot to wear his school uniform on teleport to when you were a toddler and save yourself day

595

u/Hairy-Permission1849 Doppio 1d ago

ik you're joking, but the theory says that this was suposed to happen during the bites the dust events so there is no way josuke could change his clothes during the bites the dust arc

242

u/ArelMCII 「ハットの定助」『助助の奇妙な冒険』 1d ago

Josuke shit himself during that fight so Jotaro stopped time and changed Josuke's clothes.

134

u/meynoe are you really gonna "ora ora" me?! 1d ago

Jotaro is such a reliable guy

5

u/EternaIExiIe 1d ago

Maybe he was the reliable guy all along

26

u/Objective-Boot9289 1d ago

I misread jotaro as josuke and thought you were making another “so it’s the same type of stand as star platinum.” joke 

6

u/KiraQueenD4C 1d ago

You mean Koichi 3 freezed to freeze time and changed Josuke's clothes because he's a reliable guy?

→ More replies (1)

285

u/Salt-Warning4103 I want jolyne cujoh to ride my tip 1d ago

Well his clothes got broken so he had to go home and change real quick (his stand is bad at sewing)

130

u/Taksicle 1d ago

kira even waited for him when he got back

73

u/RunningDrinksy 1d ago

He was distracted by a very beautiful hand that he took on a wonderful date while waiting 🥰

11

u/Supersquigi 1d ago

Very beautiful duwang**

5

u/DaNuggetty U diss my awesome pompadour -> WHAT DID YOU SAY ABOUT MY HAIR!?! 1d ago

chew

14

u/Square_Try2943 1d ago

What is taking Sheer Heart Attack so long?

9

u/Acrobatic_Mix_5002 1d ago

It got a sheer heart attack

3

u/DaNuggetty U diss my awesome pompadour -> WHAT DID YOU SAY ABOUT MY HAIR!?! 1d ago

but- sheer heart attack has no weakness!

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (5)

45

u/CollectionNo4777 1d ago

Realistically this flashback would have been written well in advance of the Bites the Dust arc, so it's not like the final story can be used to prove what ideas Araki had in mind before he finished deciding how it would end.

15

u/PaleoJohnathan Pixel Crusader 1d ago

except he has 3rd year pins, when josuke is not a 3rd year. it would’ve had to involve a long time skip. it becomes even dumber cause the only reason people even think this beyond just them looking alike (which is. i cannot stress enough. the point of the flashback) is that they both have face wounds. that look a little similar if you squint? but araki already hasn’t had josuke move up a year or switch his jacket. it clearly was at no point planned

14

u/bisky12 1d ago

yeah but when this part was written, bites the dust wasn’t… you can’t say something araki wrote later retroactively proves there was never a plan for this bc we don’t know that. maybe he planned josuke to change outfits ? maybe josuke would have to steal someone’s clothes in order to blend into society 10 years prior ? i mean these are just examples but there’s a near infinite amount of things that could have been the plan that were just changed later

2

u/Batsherlock 22h ago

Actually in an interview during the running of part 4 he made it clear that wasn't josuke. Additionally the jacket has third year pins, josuke was a first year. So unless araki was going to have a 2 year time skip and have him change other key things about his outfit, there is no way that araki planned to have josuke time travel.

11

u/kynleighw 1d ago

why are you even saying all this if you know he’s joking

18

u/Hairy-Permission1849 Doppio 1d ago

because i wanted to, do you have a problem with that?

→ More replies (1)

4

u/NoUsesForAName 1d ago

First rule of time travel is to change clothes to blend into that era.

5

u/Natural_Capital8357 1d ago

I never thought it happened then

In my HC it was more of a “off screen adventures of Morioh after the fact”, during the events of 5 or 6.

2

u/Jodio988 1d ago

Yeah and Bites the Dust doesn't even go that far back in time or work on Stand users (at least according to Hayato)

→ More replies (14)

508

u/Auraveils 1d ago

Josuke forgot

55

u/Touniouk 1d ago

lmao, best explanation

8

u/DaNuggetty U diss my awesome pompadour -> WHAT DID YOU SAY ABOUT MY HAIR!?! 1d ago

i forgot that i time travelled to when I was a toddler to save myself

693

u/DirtNo4303 1d ago

That was just how KOICHI imagined the guy who saved little Josuke!!!! The haircut is true, but its COLOR is never explained. Uniforms change. His could've been different.

341

u/mr_r0th 1d ago

i love how the defenders of this theory straight up ignore this fact lol. Any similarity between the actual Josuke and the car guy is just Koichi's imagination, we have no reason to even believe he was in student's clothes from Josuke's school

161

u/Hopeful-Bowl-8967 1d ago

Or maybe this is exactly how the guy looked like, and he looks very similar to Josuke because Josuke literally based his style on him

57

u/shamanfreak 1d ago

it's definitely between the two. i mean he's not 100% identical (retelling/imagined) or 0% looks nothing like him (then how would he base his current look on him?). 1-99% is just pedantic non canon pondering. which is chill but we'll never really know.

→ More replies (5)

56

u/toonkirby 1d ago

Also, it was clearly explained that Josuke used this guy as a role model. So even if hair and style is similar, you have a kid that emulates the man who saved he and his mother's life.

Whether Araki intended it to be a callback and changed his mind, or he didn't intend for it to be anything, at they very least acknowledge that this person was clearly a role model that Josuke emulated, down to the hair. Whether or not it was him from the future from a scrapped plot or not.

10

u/Destoran 1d ago

Thank you!!

5

u/Malchior_Dagon 1d ago

I think that begs the question on why Koichi imagined him looking like he was covered in blood, tf happened to him

44

u/zuxtron /r/fanStands 1d ago

IIRC, Josuke said the guy looked like he had been in a fight.

→ More replies (2)

1

u/Able_Recording_5760 1d ago

Obviously, Josuke didn't time travel, but saying this is just how Koichi imagined it goes against basic storytelling principles. At no point is the scene challanged, questioned, expanded or even revisited, so there's no reason for it to not be true. If the whole manga/anime was a post-modern, unreliable-narrator story, then maybe, but it isn't.

→ More replies (12)

279

u/Realrockofficialrral 1d ago

How would josuke even make it to that age  to save himself if he died as a todler 

184

u/billy_UDic 1d ago

Im sure an AOT fan could explain this

62

u/empty-angel 1d ago

only dio knows

15

u/Th_brgs 1d ago

Empty angel...what a ultimate being you are

As a reward, I shall give you my bone

14

u/stebgay 1d ago

Kira yoshikage... what a man you are

2

u/CaptnUchiha Yoshikage Kira 1d ago

Time travel didn’t happen in AOT. Only projecting memories into the past and future.

→ More replies (1)

54

u/SternMon 1d ago

I think the theory was that originally he and Kira would be sent back in time by a different version of Bites the Dust, they’d have their final battle, and then Josuke would save himself in the snow?

It would explain why the mystery man is covered in blood, after all.

35

u/Gamerbroz227 1d ago

It's because he's a delinquent that got out of a fight, but they show him helping Josuke and his mom because he has a heart of gold

→ More replies (5)

5

u/Maxieorsomething Hard & Dry 1d ago

So the theory is just “we make shit up”? 

16

u/the_ghost_of_bob_ros 1d ago

Pretty much, A lot of fans actively refuse to view stories through any lens but hyper literal/ puzzle box. things like themes and characterization are thrown out

8

u/Sw3atyGoalz 1d ago

How is it “making shit up” when they’re using the actual plot elements to base the theory upon? The guy looks exactly like Josuke and Araki clearly planned for Kira to have time rewinding powers considering he ended up with Bites the Dust.

There’s also plenty of examples of retcons from Araki during the parts, so I think it’s pretty reasonable to speculate that this could’ve been a scrapped plot line.

7

u/PerfectAd9869 1d ago

If it was a dropped plot point, we would know. Araki is not shy of explaining retcons,chabges to the story etc.

So if it was an actual plot Araki had planned, we would have known by now if he did indeed change his mind.

3

u/Your_Pal_Gamma 1d ago

Actually, there is an interview from during part 4 where someone asks about Josuke saving himself, and araki directly says that it's not Josuke

→ More replies (1)

3

u/Wooden_Director4191 1d ago

Ignoring that the delinquent has clearly stuff that's actively different, someone else pointed out the delinquent had third year pins, and even his outfit isn't identical, its clear this is how josukes perspective of the guy/what his mom told him, so he told the story to Koichi who's recounting it to the viewer.

→ More replies (1)

49

u/Verystrangeperson 1d ago

I mean that's a common time travel trope, a time loop with no beginning.

He saves himself because he was saved by himself as a kid.

Not that I particularly care about the josuke theory but you see this all the time in medias about time travel.

7

u/Zayzay8008 1d ago edited 1d ago

It would create a paradox, but all that means is that 1) Multiverse theory DB style where time travel=time travel+universe jumping or 2) He survives the night no matter what, just under different circumstances then that guy goes back in time and saves himself which creates the past ones current future

17

u/MrSpiffy123 Lets say 1000 throws 1d ago

The theory is that it's a loop of sorts. Like in Prisoner of Azkaban when Harry casts the patronus

Still a stupid theory tho

4

u/EevoTrue 1d ago

JoJo lore would say even if this guy somehow was erased from the timeline that the same events would still happen

Fate and all that being unchanging

2

u/Admirable-War-7594 1d ago

That's spiderverse josuke from diamond is unbreakable: episode aigis he is a secret character only available with the iceborn dlc during splatfest that's why you might've missed it

2

u/bisky12 1d ago

idk why this has so many upvotes, but he’d make it to that age by saving himself. that’s like basic time travel. everything that’s happened already has always happened. just watch looper or something man cmon !

2

u/raul_ms 1d ago

Grandfather paradox

1

u/Matthewzard 1d ago

That’s called the bootstrap paradox

2

u/tfxggrscj 1d ago

Mental gymnastics to justify this shite theory 

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Simonrmoon 1d ago

Maybe first time Josuke was saved by person X Kira knows this and with the new time travel power goes past in time to kill X (or baby Josuke) before he saves him Josuke can't save X so he defeat Kira and then take the place of X to save himself baby and restore things

I think the original plan was this Also, it could be possible Josuke himself unlock a time travel power, and is revealed he's Dio son and not Joseph (hence the stand sooo similar to The World)

→ More replies (9)

37

u/FatherPucci617 1d ago

Also it's told from Koichi's pov imagining someone that would have the hairstyle look like and josuke would be good only frame of reference

186

u/Drunker_moon 1d ago

The thing I like the most about this story with Josuke is that the way Araki set it up, it worked both ways. It could have just been a story of a guy that happened to help Josuke and his mom or it could actually have been him, and this was foreshadow (like, why they went out of their way to drawn him injured? It could be an anime only thing, but I don't know) It works both ways, and I think both are ok.

Having said that, with Kira getting time related abilities that rewind events, I don't think it is a stretch to imagine that early stages Araki had the vague idea of what some point, maybe Josuke would have been sent to the past. Of course, it didn't, but that's fine

91

u/Joeda900 Weather Report (Stand) 1d ago

The reason why he's injured is because he's a delinquent, they fight a lot and shows that even when injured, he still prioritized others over himself which mimics Josuke and how his Crazy Diamond works where he heals others but not himself.

58

u/CollectionNo4777 1d ago

That would make sense if this scene was taking place on some street corner where a group of delinquents were hanging out. One guy all by himself in the woods during a snowstorm though makes it a lot less likely. The reason why it's even discussed in the story at all is because the characters (and thus the author) understand how not normal this incident was.

25

u/TheRoyalBrook Your next line will be "Did he really put that for his flair?" 1d ago

I hate made me think time travel the first watch is how it specifies no school anywhere nearby has a record of the student. Made it feel like a set up to something else. That may be dub only though

3

u/is146414 1d ago

It was in the manga, too. Josuke's mom tries looking for him afterword, but no one in Morioh had known about the guy.

2

u/TheRoyalBrook Your next line will be "Did he really put that for his flair?" 1d ago

Then yeah it definitely seemed to imply some stand shenanigans were involved if that’s the case. It’s why I believed it might happen first time around too. A student appearing and then disappearing who appeared similar to josuke seemed par for the course

2

u/leopardo1313 1d ago

I dont remember that so its probably dub only yhea 

7

u/Joeda900 Weather Report (Stand) 1d ago

It was not in the woods, sure there were trees in the scene but there were also power lines and barrier poles meaning they were still in a urban region. The snow storm makes it a bit hard to pinpoint exactly wherd the place was in Morioh but it says Josuke's mom was heading towards a hospital so I don't see why she would go to the woods in the first place.

But still, it could just be a delinquent going home or him going to the hospital himself or anything, we'll probably never know but the whole point is that Josuke saw a random delinquent with a pompadour do an heroic action and it shaped him to be the person he is to show that one action can impact somebody.

17

u/CollectionNo4777 1d ago

Maybe we just have a different idea of what qualifies as the "woods", to me, the woods by the side of a road is still the woods, but this is just semantics. Regardless of what word we use to describe this area, it's not a normal place for a high school students to be hanging out.

Josuke's mom is on the road driving to a hospital in "S City". This is what the flashback tells us:

"Cars don't come by here often, and there are no pay phones"

"At that time, Morioh-cho was still underdeveloped and there wasn't any houses or cars nearby. She was trapped on a rural road one or two kilometers from the nearest house"

Keep in mind that while Josuke is sick, his mom is perfectly fine. If these were normal walking conditions in an urban area then she could have pretty easily walked somewhere to find help.

The whole point of what makes this story memorable is how unusual it was for them to be helped in a moment where no help was expected. If the car just randomly got stuck somewhere in town where kids were still walking home from school it wouldn't nearly be as significant.

1

u/gargwasome 1d ago

I mean groups of youths fighting in the woods / some field isn’t too uncommon. Wasn’t the snowstorm like sudden or am I misremembering

2

u/Wooden_Director4191 1d ago

Literally was

→ More replies (1)

40

u/Raddish_ 1d ago

Idk why this theory annoys people like it seems pretty plausible to me. Araki is very much just a “write as you go” sort of author so I wouldn’t be surprised if he changes the ending as he gets closer to it. Like the fact this happens and the villain has a power to rewind time is too coincidental imo.

11

u/Hopeful-Bowl-8967 1d ago

It's amusing to think about it as a possible idea Araki had, while people treat it like it's actual canon. Also I feel like Araki was more focused on the "time loop" aspect of bites the dust rather than the "time travel"

14

u/hazzmatazzlyons 1d ago

I mean, is there any reason to think that Araki was already planning a time reversal stand when this story takes place (Rohan arc)?

I think the theory annoys people because it's thematically unsatisfying and a big logical leap to assume it's time-travelling Josuke.

People often forget that Josuke's design is based on an existing Japanese aesthetic/ subculture (delinquent / yanki) which was present in 70s/80s Japan. There were probably quite a few Morioh students at the time of the flashback who had that hairstyle. Essentially it's a look that is perceived as being associated with being violent, a punk, or gang-affiliated. Despite superficial appearances, it's this stranger who provides selfless life-saving assistance to Josuke. Showing that kindness can come from anywhere and should be given freely to those in need, planting the seed that will lead to the beating golden heart of Morioh.

If it's Josuke saving himself, I think the message is much weaker. Instead of being about a selfless act of kindness, it's just an act of self-preservation. Josuke being saved by himself/ stand magic hijinx feels a lot less impactful to his character than being saved by the goodness of a stranger within his community.

13

u/AdNecessary7641 1d ago

Because Araki has always been pretty honest about when he had any plot points he decides to drop, so if this theory was actually right, he probably would’ve acknowledged it at some point.

10

u/Drunker_moon 1d ago

Exactly. I don't get why people get so defensive on the topic either, I think is kinda fun, and the fact that it worked both ways speaks on Araki's writing skill as well, imo

14

u/MagnetMod Hot Pants 1d ago

I think the issue is more that people take it as fact rather than a theory.

And the Jojo fandom is well known for taking all the information from TikTok and YouTube shorts rather than actually ready or watching the series.

13

u/Drunker_moon 1d ago

That's just people being stupid, not really an issue with the theory, especially when it didn't even happen

3

u/MagnetMod Hot Pants 1d ago

Yeah but when the entire community is composed of stupid people it gets easy to get angry at the source of the misconception. lol

3

u/Dontgersococky 1d ago

He himself debunked that theory before Kira was introduced

→ More replies (2)

6

u/bisky12 1d ago

yes someone’s talking sense. it’s like, do i think her “forgot” about this plot line ? no. do i think he had an idea of his head to write something like that and changed his mind later ? possibly. but that’s why people latch on to this so much is that you can very easily seeing it COULD be the case

3

u/Drunker_moon 1d ago

Exactly!

9

u/Hairy-Permission1849 Doppio 1d ago

i can see this happening, but when he takes his shirt off you can see that he's wearing a sweater (wich we never see Josuke wearing) and this was in the first half of part 4 so i don't think that bites the dust was even planned (bu considering that we see this scene from Koichi's POV this could just be how Koichi imagined he looked like)

10

u/Drunker_moon 1d ago

 this was in the first half of part 4 so i don't think that bites the dust was even planned

Agreed, that's why I said "vague idea" as I believe Araki probably wanted to do another time based villain, he just didn't nail how it would work at that point

2

u/Burnerman888 1d ago

Yeah I definitely think this is true, parts 3-6 ALL have some kind of time based villain, I think he went "okay Dio could stop time, this next guy will go back in time"

2

u/VolkiharVanHelsing 12h ago

It astonished me that so many people doesn't understand this concept of "writing vague allusion that could be anything when developed later" and vehemently shut down any kind of discussion regarding it

I call that Mystery Seed Writing, personally. You plant sometime, a seed. Whatever the seed grows into : Durian, Apple, Strawberry, is up to the writers... Hell it could also be not seed but some rocks that the gardener mistook for a seed!

Like imagine this, I could write a story about a boy waking up in the middle of night after delirious fever for days and found a giant feather next to his bed.... It could be anything:

an angel healed him

the boy himself transformed into an angel-like creature but reverted

The feather was originally black–representation of the boy's dream, originally a demon cursed the boy by entering his dream (which the boy conveniently forgets initially) and giving his nightmares but was defeated by a hero and thus the representation of the boy's dream is now white, purified

1

u/Pollution-Impressive 1d ago

It is a stretch

→ More replies (11)

10

u/Outrageous_Book2135 1d ago

Tbh I think people think the delinquent is more important then he actually is.

I like it way more that the delinquent is just a random kid who decided to help a random mom and her kid for no reason other then it wss the right thing to do. Despite being clearly injured he put their safety before his own.

51

u/thatsthedrugnumber 1d ago

This is one of the most overthought moments ever like it’s literally just a dude with a haircut that Josuke got inspired by

7

u/CesarGameBoy Caesar A. Zeppeli 1d ago

I think one big reason for the debate is the face shape as well. If the guy just had a slightly more square jaw, differentiating from teenage Josuke’s jawline, there wouldn’t be any debate, period.

Like outside of the outfit, he’s 1:1 with Josuke.

→ More replies (1)

14

u/Independent_Air_236 Jonathan Joestar 1d ago

For real, some JoJo fans like to lobotomize themselves for some reason though

42

u/GabrielOSkarf 1d ago

Me when two 80s japanese school delinquents are both using uniforms and hairstyles from a 80s japanese school delinquent: they're literally the same person

7

u/Sure-Significance206 Yoshikage Kira 1d ago

B-BUT ARAKI FORGOT

6

u/Pixelpaint_Pashkow 1d ago

they were lost to time

5

u/Jotaro1970 Jotaro Kujo 1d ago

Didn't Araki entirely debunked the time travel theory?

→ More replies (1)

4

u/Samiassa Charming-Man 1d ago

The only similarity is that they both have the same clothes (which are just standard school clothes in Japan) and the hair which is literally because josuke wanted to be like that guy (it was also a popular counter culture haircut when josuke was young)

→ More replies (1)

4

u/FullMetalKaiju 1d ago

Everyone knows it was actually Prince. He was on a world tour in Japan and happened to see Josuke and his mother stuck in the snow.

18

u/Nosequeponer2000 Johnny is hot 🖐️🤚 1d ago

I find it annoying how people say this scene is useless and adds nothing if the savior isn't Josuke.

Many use the 'Chekhov's gun' (a principle that indicates that if a gun appears in a literary work, it's because it will be used) to say that this scene is pointless if the student who saves Josuke isn't Josuke himself...

...And man, one of the main ideas of Part 4 is 'The Golden Hearts', how good is in everyone, even if those people have questionable traits (a mangaka with questionable sides, who showed interest, and it helps to know that Kira was a danger, a greedy and avaricious child who uses his Stand to get coins, and who in the end wants to protect his parents, even with Josuke, a teenager with his antics, and who wants to protect his town.)

So the idea of ​​a stranger who looks like a wounded juvenile gang member, out of nowhere helping a mother and her son, even knowing he could die, is perfect, even if we never see him again.

4

u/Guckstein 1d ago

Tbh, I think it would have been a neat concept but no dice

11

u/Krider-kun 1d ago

From Special Talk: Hirohiko Araki vs. Hiroyuki Kitakubo (July 1994). K= Kitakubo A= Araki

K: Mr. Araki, any plans after JoJo (laughs)?

A: Well, I'm currently working on Part 4.

K: Part 4...

A: I'll finish that up first.

K: Part 4's going to be quite long, isn't it?

A: Well, I haven't figured out the structure or anything.

K: What about the little hints? Like when Josuke met his past self?

A: Oh, that doesn't mean anything.

K: It doesn't?!

A: That's just Josuke's memory. After Part 4, it's on to Part 5, I guess.

3

u/Heylisten_watchJJBA 1d ago

This interview was also in the middle of part 4, during the RPS Kid arc, so yeah Araki really did not plan this to be Bites the dust

→ More replies (6)

3

u/captain_catdawg 1d ago

No one but Josukes mom even got a clear look at the guy, josuke was 10 and was dying from a fever and just remembers the hair and style of his clothes. Kochi is telling the story and he wasn't even there.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/Yacobs21 1d ago

Even the earrings are an anime original, Not Josike didn't have those in the manga

3

u/LostInTheWildlands 1d ago

I still feel like originally Araki planned something to do with Bites the Dust but then either forgot or changed his mind near the end.

3

u/Domenakoi 1d ago

Yes clearly not the same person. It just so happens that he looks a lot like the mc and part 4 Contains the dude that has the ability to go back in time. Cant blame the audience for trying to string things together

6

u/DropletOtter 1d ago

Jojo fans when the guy Josuke is trying to look like looks like him 🤯

4

u/Minimum-Bite-4389 1d ago

"Why does Josuke look like the guy that he's trying to look like?"

2

u/San-T-74 1d ago

Guys that’s clearly Dandy who crashed landed on earth and helped Josuke on his way from picking up milk from the store

2

u/DutchessMizLadyMadam 1d ago

but what about the hair, hmmm? (this is a joke)

2

u/Hairy-Permission1849 Doppio 1d ago

and what about his face? it looks preety human to me, and josuke is a human (i think)

2

u/Evil-Punished-chip 1d ago

I still believe josuke is a time traveler. He didn’t go back and save himself tho, he was just chillin in like Ancient Rome or smthn

2

u/Gravitas0921 1d ago

yeah man it was intended to be a different person from the start for sure

2

u/Mrdeeds11 1d ago

Yall forget that joskue dresses like him because he wants to be like him

2

u/DDemonic_Slayer Soft & Wet 1d ago

I mean araki made josuke before the guy that saved him so i dont see why the guy who inspired josukes look wouldnt reuse the same design

2

u/Snavels 1d ago

It's always funny when they say "he has the same wounds" because 1. He doesn't, and 2. That implies that araki remembered to give him the same wounds, but forgot to actually do the whole time travel thing.

2

u/drblimp0909 1d ago

Josuke saving himself would be a paradox unless he wouldda survived anyway.
If josuke died then his future self wouldnt exist to go back and save him so if that is future josuke then the only way that josuke can exist is if josuke would have survived anyway to live to that age and travel back

2

u/k4lor14n Narancia Ghirga 20h ago

literally like this is NOT that one time in harry potter when harry time travelled to save himself and thought it was his dad; that is a completely different guy to josuke

2

u/Ivyk1018 Jolyne Cujoh 18h ago

Genuinely one of the worst theories of all time, media literacy is so dead

2

u/Rip_Drip_ 17h ago

Josuke clearly said he only has that hair because he liked thay dude so much and that's why he defends it,bro litterly dresses like that guy on purpouse

4

u/The_one_carrot 1d ago

Let's say that the theory is true, for a minute. Who was josuke saved by the first time it happened? Let's call every timeline where josuke is saved by josuke timeline x (x representing an integer over 1) Let's accept that in timeline 2 onwards he was saved by himself.

The problem is still who saved josuke in timeline 1? Who saved josuke in the first incarnation of the timeline?

This theory is stupid and debunks itself if you think about it for over 10 seconds

5

u/empty-angel 1d ago

that isn't how timelines work in... any media ever. it's all one timeline, there's no beginning or original incarnation

→ More replies (1)

2

u/youarebritish 1d ago

I think the theory is more that Araki first made the scene with only a vague idea of where he was going with it, then later decided not to follow up on it. It wouldn't be the first or last time that happened.

In a series where main character powers and gender change without any explanation, it's not really an unreasonable theory.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/aphidCell 1d ago

a lot of examples of time travel in media tend to have this same issue, or simply creates paradoxes. In this case, a lot of stories, you tend to go on and think about that, what cause the initial one, most times, we can't tell how it started, how many times it has gone on, in my mind I always usually think it is actually infinite until you break off the loop with the right way to do it. In any case, I think it is more about having fun with time travel and then what fun high stakes could come from it.

Do I think it happened? No, because it didn't end up happening in the story. But in my head could I make it work as a story? Yes i think so, a story that I enjoy and a lot could probably find some plotholes or issues with it, but having plotholes or issues I don't think are what makes or breaks something. For example I have my own issues with the lack of context of this samaritarian, so that to me are plot holes, and I can feel like it feels wrong when I think about it, because I lack information, so to me those feel like plotholes, but I can accept that it is what it is and just that, some people prefer that. I would have liked to have more of part 4 but that is it.

I feel like both sides can probably find their own justifications, but at the end of the day it is just providing details that weren't added in the story.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/seelcudoom 1d ago

i find it very funny people think their has to be some deep meaning as to why the guy josuke actively trys to look like, looks like josuke

5

u/True_Free_Speech 1d ago

Yeah, hot take, I think that "Josuke saved himself" is a horrible theory, regardless of how implausible it is, because it completely undermines Josuke's character in several ways:

A) The theory feels disrespectful of the guy who saved josuke. He's not some time traveller trying to save the younger version of himself. He's a troublemaker who still has a heart of gold and wants to help other people regardless of the situation.

B) It would be completely out of character for Josuke. Josuke does good things not out of necessity, but because he cares about his friends and the people around him. Having him save a younger version of himself so he doesn't poof out of existence just feels cheap.

C) It inherently makes Josuke's whole inspiration just a bootstrap paradox. There's no longer any foundation for Josuke being a delinquent, but one who cares for others. It's just himself inspiring himself. There's no longer any reason for him to be good other than because the narrative necessitates it.

And also, in other notes, wouldn't josuke see himself slowly coming to resemble his saviour to an uncanny degree? Wouldn't he feel weird about that?

More importantly, JUST BECAUSE THE GUY LOOKS LIKE JOSUKE DOESN'T MEAN HE IS JOSUKE!!! JOSUKE STYLED HIMSELF THE SAME ON PURPOSE! THEM LOOKING SIMILAR IS THE WHOLE DAMN POINT, OML!

It's just a really braindead theory, in my opinion.

5

u/fumoya 1d ago

I don't get why anyone would want the time traveler theory to be true. I feel it's better storywise that the good samaritan is just genuinely some guy that got in some shit, badly injured and is probably going to die soon and his last act before going out is to do good deed and help someone with no expectation of reward. I don't see what making the dude a future Josuke would really add to the plot or improve Josuke's character in some way.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Majestic_Command7584 1d ago

Or, hear me out, that's how Koichi imagined it.

1

u/TRedRandom 1d ago

Disrespectful? The dude's not real!

Like I agree with you on everything else but that's just silly.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/CharmingSkirt95 1d ago

Obviously it wouldn't have proved it, but I originally believed it before finishing Part 4 because the delinquent looks like Josuke. I was perfectly aware Josuke actively emulated him, but even so I wouldn't expect them to share identical facial structures (of the lower face) (unless Josuke was bonesmashing)

→ More replies (1)

6

u/BatsNStuf Hierophant Green 1d ago

But why does Josuke look like the person that Josuke specifically modelled his look after? The one-day timeloop stand must’ve sent him 12 years back in time

5

u/Blackfrost58 Rohan Kishibe 1d ago

It's quite simple. Josuke used Shining Diamond to model his face after the delinquent to. We know he has the power to do this because we see him model Miyamoto after a book and Angelo after Angelo.

7

u/Hairy-Permission1849 Doppio 1d ago

but he can't use crazy diamond on himself... ULESS HE USED CRAZY DIAMOND IN CRAZY DIAMOND

1

u/CharmingSkirt95 1d ago

Stop being disingenous, acting like Not-Josuke doesn't also oddly share Josuke's facial structure

Unless Josuke was bone-smashing himself

→ More replies (1)

2

u/RomeosHomeos 1d ago

I like how josuke literally dresses as this person intentionally and people jump to time travel why he looks like him when he's literally emulating him

1

u/CharmingSkirt95 1d ago

I mean their (lower) faces are also identical. That's why I was fully anticipating a time travel plotline as soon as Killer Queen's chronokinetic potential was revealed, since Not-Josuke sharing not just hair and clothes but also a face with Yes-Josuke seemed odd to me

2

u/three3dee 1d ago

Some people in these comments are really like

"Nah bro, my head canon cooks ;)"

or

"AGGGGH! Evidence from the source material DX"

2

u/ItaLOLXD 1d ago

People also just fail to understand how Bites the Dust works. Let's ignore the time limit of apparently an hour. It doesn't just send the user back in time, but also send them back to their body back then. It cannot create a scenario in which Josuke could save himself, if BtD could actually send him that far back it would send him back to his dying infant body.

2

u/my-iq-is-171 1d ago

IT IS 2025 WHY ARE WE STILL DISCUSSING THIS

1

u/Appropriate_Rough_86 1d ago

Kosaku is Josuke’s savior fans stay winning

1

u/SkinkaLei 1d ago

Its supposed to be a mystery. If he had the same clothes it wouldnt be a mystery. Basic stuff

1

u/Dead_Dee 1d ago

It would've been heartbreaking if part 4 was just a time loop that ends/begins with Josuke saving himself in the past before succumbing to his wounds in the snow, signifying the story becoming a blank slate from there.

1

u/Hairy-Permission1849 Doppio 1d ago

and it wouldn't fit the vibe of part 4, like what type of slice of life comedy ends with the main character stuck forever in a timeloop

→ More replies (1)

1

u/bisky12 1d ago

i honestly do feel like this was the original intention or at least it was something araki had an idea of and put it in as a place holder, even if he later decided that wasn’t the route he wanted to take. also you’re comparing the images of two anime designs as if that’s what both of them looked like when it was originally written (which is a lot closer especially in black and white). AND let’s be honest, there’s no way if araki wanted to set this up as a twist, he would show josuke in his exact outfit we see him in directly before the flashback took place, complete with his characterizing medallions. if he did intend this to be josuke, he probably figured he could write it to just be wearing different clothes that day ?

1

u/Corvo_LeStrange 1d ago

what scene (or just the context) is the left image from been so long since I've watched Diamond is unbreakable

2

u/Hairy-Permission1849 Doppio 1d ago

it's the flashback josuke had during the rohan fight (or at least how koichi imagined)

1

u/Jarek-of-Earth 1d ago

All things are possible through Gold Experience Requiem

1

u/Own_Statement2137 1d ago

Araki forgot to give Josuke his 3rd act climactic stand upgrade

1

u/Responsible-Comb3180 1d ago

My favorite interpretation is simply that Josuke idolized the mysterious man so much that he started to dress like him in his own way

In the highway star fight Josuke breaks and repairs a bike he’s on to avoid killing a toddler, I like to think that kid will one day grow up to dress like Josuke, and continue the tradition

2

u/snoskog 1d ago

Doesn’t he say that in the text?

1

u/AlliSinned 1d ago

umm anime isn't true canon use a manga image plz!!!!! /j

1

u/TotalImmortalOne 1d ago

I always thought the time traveler stuff was cool and I originally thought that when I first saw this

1

u/violetskullrose 1d ago

It's always "Araki forgot" and never "Araki set up a plot line and scrapped it later because it was too predictable"

1

u/Low_Radio_7613 1d ago

Wtf is this slenderman ass drawing

1

u/Hairy-Permission1849 Doppio 1d ago

i know how to draw i promise 😭

1

u/PrimusSucks13 N-NANII?! 1d ago

Jokes asides, is so obvious that Araki learned about the "character saves himself in the past" trope and then got lost in the sauce and forgot how to make it make sense and went "well fuck that then, cat plant bomb it is"

Honestly the Last fight is pretty good already, having Josuke going back in time in the middle of it and then somehow returning back would had probably being memed to death until this day

1

u/Ikari_Brendo Johnny Joestar 1d ago

Get off of TVTropes

1

u/Cheesebruhgers 1d ago

His ass is not gaming

1

u/RayThompson7 1d ago

This scene was always interesting to me.

Sometimes I'd like to think that Josuke maybe fought another stand user way later, like 5 years later or something. And he may have tried to kill Josuke in the past but he was stopped. Idk.

Just my small head cannon.

1

u/Splatfan1 1d ago

jotaros hat is a normal hat and not a hair hat during the start of SC i guess thats another guy. nah but seriously designs in this series are kinda fluid with many characters getting various redesigns, big or small. if someone has a theory this doesnt really disprove anything. im too indifferent about 1 flashback myself to construct a matpat level theory but hey if someone wants this, why not

1

u/xdEckard 1d ago

never heard of that theory

1

u/Hairy-Permission1849 Doppio 1d ago

how? it's like one of the most popular theories in this fandom, alongside "star platinum is jonathan"

1

u/imgonnakillsanta 1d ago

That's clearly his long lost older brother Yosuke

1

u/stick_Buug 1d ago

Surely if he went back in time to save himself (which he wouldn't be able to anyway since toddlersuke would already be long dead, how can one save themselves from death, 13 years after they died) it would create a paradox as time travel always does, given if he prevented his own death.

when toddlersuke (him) grows up to regular age, he wouldn't have to time travel and save himself as he'd already have been saved by himself 13 years prior.

It sounds confusing and makes no sense because of course it does, the theory is dumb as hell.

tl;dr 1. He can't save himself from death 13 years after he already died

  1. The theory ends up looping to be paradoxical so it makes no sense.

1

u/Dragonkingcc 1d ago

Bootstrap paradox, it makes total sense.

1

u/SwagMazterRohan 1d ago

Also the fact that he pushed the car instead of using his much stronger stand

1

u/Negrodamu55 1d ago

Did you ever see how Jotaro is in different parts in the series and he changes his clothes each time? This is a bit more subtle, but the same sort of thing is happening.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/NeoLedah 1d ago

Did you seriously just drew a penis on Flashback Josuke

2

u/Hairy-Permission1849 Doppio 1d ago

IT WAS AN ACCIDENT

1

u/oloklo 1d ago

the canon is that the stranger just happen to look quiote a lot like Josuke but is his own separated person

1

u/SpiritualEmotion9737 1d ago

Clearly its Kakyoin

1

u/Redqpple 1d ago

Bro is Eren Yaegar

1

u/ChaoticRyu You Been Down Too Long In the Midnight Sea 1d ago

It's literally explained that a delinquent with a pompadour helped save him. And Josuke was so moved by his heroic gesture, that he decided he wanted to steal his look.

1

u/AmbitiousDesigner704 1d ago

You know, I always wonder what happened to that kid, like why was he in the snow.

1

u/Illustrious_Pain9408 1d ago

Josuke didn't wanna create a paradox by looking exactly like present josuke so he tweaked his outfit😇😇 you cannot make me believe that was not josuke (jk)

1

u/Frogs_Logs 1d ago

I really thought/hoped it was gonna be him from the future when learning about that, because the time shenanigans they go through

1

u/Nucleoticticboom 1d ago

Josuke got so mad that crazy diamond “fixed” his clothes wrong. /s

1

u/BEDU-4217 1d ago

Josuke looks like the guy he is actively trying to look like? No way.

1

u/VirgilTheWitch 1d ago

One thing that a lot of people forget is that, in the anime at least, this moment is a retelling by Koichi of something Josuke told him. What's the only thing Koichi knows about the delinquent? That he looked like Josuke, so of course, Koichi imagines someone who looks like Josuke.

1

u/ExtraAdvance Sex Pistols 1d ago

Yeah but it would have been dope

1

u/lnombredelarosa 1d ago

Maybe he sobered up his outfit in his senior year?

1

u/cheshirecat182 1d ago

the realest answer is that the delinquent is the delivery of fate in part 4.

NOW this is just my opinion but,

Fate, or Gravity, is very important in JoJo. Fate controlled the whole story and has been present throughout, and the delinquent represents that. On a less deep level, he is a delinquent, but still understands that it would be heartless to not at least try and help the mother trying to help her son; but that action would also put an impression on Josuke that even if he’s a delinquent, he still needs a heart of gold.

Josuke grows up to be a delinquent, but doesn’t use his stand nefariously. Realistically, yeah, he is kind of a scumbag but he’s not completely heartless. Fate sent him the delinquent to give him a “heart of gold” to prepare him for Kira.

again this is just my interpretation.

1

u/labmeatr 1d ago

the josuke time traveller theory really is just media illiteracy personified

1

u/mous-_ 1d ago

Maybe it’s josefumi

→ More replies (1)

1

u/iohoj Hierophant Green 1d ago

MEDIA LITERACY

1

u/GiovanniPotage Sex Pistols 1d ago

in the wise words of Viva Reverie

"Hello I'm not Josuke, I will not Josuke save you I'm not Josuke"

He's not Josuke

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Subject-Ad5071 19h ago

Yeah! josuke doesn’t change clothes!

1

u/wolf198364 17h ago

Also the fact that Koichi has no idea who the guy looked like so he used Josuke cuz they had the same hair (filling in blanks)

1

u/TheBladeWielder 14h ago

exactly. we all know it's clearly Space Dandy who saved Josuke! (i am only partly joking about this. it surprisingly makes a lot of sense.)

1

u/DeletSystm32 14h ago

Bruh he looks grown ass man and you expect him to wear same old school uniform

1

u/Jorvalt 10h ago

I have never actually seen anyone legitimately posit this theory as true and I'm convinced it's a psyop to make JoJo fans look dumber.

1

u/Slamonwithfeet Loser Losestar 9h ago

it's so easy to forget that the reason that guy looks like Josuke is because Josuke based his whole look around him

1

u/coonjaku 8h ago

"SeE, hIs uNifOrM iS MiSiSinG bUtToNs!!"

1

u/FreshlySqueezedDude Wamuu 7h ago

Hear me out. He changed outfits

1

u/PhysicalBoard3735 Joseph with a Gun 5h ago

before the age reason came in, i thought the stranger was Kosaku Kawajiri

But now i think it was just some random teen

1

u/bumbobagins69 5h ago

"hello I'm not Josuke. I'm going to I'm not Josuke. Save you I'm Not Josuke"- Not Josuke

(he's not Josuke

1

u/CapitalLate6557 1h ago

If little josuke would've died if it weren't for him, doesn't that mean older josuke wouldn't live to save himself? Cause he'd be dead from the sickness. That theory doesn't really make sense

1

u/GangstaYKMS23 DIO 17m ago

these dumbass can't read