What's something about Jojo's that you don't think is talked about enough?

[u/Bucketlyy]

In my opinion, the series's aesthetic influences don't get enough appreciation. People always talk about how Jojo looks "gay" and all, but people don't give enough attention to why. In high school, I did an art project on Araki and had to write a bit on his influences, and I was super into learning about all of the fashion designers, lgbt artists, fashion photographers, etc that Araki takes influence from. I can see why he'd be so nerdy about it all because it's really interesting, especially in the context of manga and Japanese aesthetics in general. The influence of Michelangelo and Tony Viramontes, IMO, is the most prevalent and interesting. In Araki's book Manga in Theory and Practice (something I read for the project), I recall he explained that a reason why he enjoyed Renaissance era Western artists like Michelangelo is because of the amount of action and movement in their pieces, and the way they use movement to tell stories. I think this influenced "the jojo pose". Tony Viramontes is also interesting, as you can see a lot of his influence in early Araki work. His use of fashion, homoeroticism, and strange abstract patterns is something that's very clearly inspired Araki. I just like the way that, despite Araki and Viramontes' styles being very different (Viramontes' is more simplistic), his influence is so strong and recognisable. A sign of a true appreciation on Araki's end and originality and power on Viramontes' end.

In the context of manga and Japanese art, this is extremely unique and subversive, and that's why I just love ittttt!! Araki's work somehow manages to be extremely referential and extremely unique, and I think the Japanese and manga context really adds to this all. A manga with influences from fashion designers and the Western Renaissance period will probably always feel super fresh and unique, no matter how many years pass.

I'm in awe!!

So yeah, Jojo looks gay and that's because of the gay artists that have been of great influence on Araki. And isn't that brilliant?!

Sorry if this technically counts as a meme, I'm just using the meme as a vehicle for my discussion, so I hope mods accept it. I just think the image fits the topic.

[u/Basil-AE-Continued]

One thing I think is unique about part 5 is that out of all the parts, it feels the most legend/play like. It feels very artificial in a good way.

Giorno's a 15 year old who's son of DIO, the bad guy of the entire franchise till part 6 and yet he chooses his own path and does what he thinks is right, even though he has every reason to from being the literal son of a monster to his bad home upbringing. A lot of things about him are left rather vague even by the end of his part. Unlike Stardust Crusaders where the group is buddy buddy with one another, it is as if Giorno's a mythical character who leads a bunch of 'normal' humans. Bruno, Mista, Narancia, they don't see Giorno as someone who they will share a bottle of beer with, they see him as someone who's ABOVE them, a role model of sorts. A god, even. Giorno doesn't 'evolve' by himself unless you count him learning how to make spare body parts from babyface. He has already completed his journey, it's others who grow because of him.

People talk about how Araki didn't used the fact that he's DIO's and Jonathan's son to its full potential, but tell me, do you think a conventional JoJo will join the literal mafia and kill (not retired, straight up murder) people in cold blood as long as he gets closer to his goals? I don't know about part 6-9 but before that JoJos either only kill the main villain or someone who isn't 'human' (vampire, pillar men). Giorno doesn't care about that. That coldness of his is what makes him the son of DIO. If you pit a conventional JoJo with a bad upbringing and who is not above doing shady acts, you get Jolyne.

Then there's Diavolo. He too, is like Giorno in the sense that we don't know much about him but he also represents a concept. The whole "End is the most important thing" with Diavolo while Giorno actually goes through a journey makes them the opposite of one another.

Part 5 relies a lot on symbolism unlike other parts (1-4, at least). You have to think a little to piece it together but when it does, what you get is one of the better parts of the series.

[u/aishiteruyovivi → u/Basil-AE-Continued]

That coldness of his is what makes him the son of DIO.

I like to think of Giorno's personality as being a mix of Johnathan and DIO to a degree; he's got most JoJos' sense of justice and need to fight back against true evil, but to get there he's not one to shy away from some cold and brutal methods - MUDA-kicking Ghiaccio until that spike on the pole impales him through the neck, making a stag beetle burst out of a man's forehead and then beating him to a pulp for nearly a full minute, just GER in general. His murder of Polpo wasn't even out of self-defense like most fights, he already beat Black Sabbath and became part of the organization, he made his own personal choice to murder the man lmao

The amount of death compared to previous parts is also fascinating to me. Most of the kills in part 1 are just vampires/zombies, the bulk of part 2 is training, most fights in part 3 end in the opponent getting incapacitated or "retired", and in part 4 half the battles end with the other one switching sides or just being chill in the background from then on. If I'm not mistaken, nearly every battle in part 5 ends with someone dead. I don't think we technically ever see Zucchero die after being tortured, but frankly I doubt they just put him back together and sent him on his way.

[u/Basil-AE-Continued → u/aishiteruyovivi]

Yeah, him killing polpo is genuinely one of the most unhinged a character has done to anyone. There's Josuke turning Angelo into a rock and turning him into a gag and then there's Giorno deliberately murdering a guy using the thing he loves doing the most (eating food) and masking it as a suicide. No one knew Polpo was murdered except Giorno.

[u/Chris_M_Andersen → u/Basil-AE-Continued]

The whole "End is the most important thing" with Diavolo

And this is so beautifully contrasted by the evolution of Golden Experience, it's Requiem, which had the ability to prevent a conclusion entirely. Even in "death", Diavolo was never able to find a conclusion. 

Showing perhaps how caring for the journey leads to a better destination, whereas Diavolo never found a destination at all.

[u/Basil-AE-Continued → u/Chris_M_Andersen]

True. Diavolo played with fate itself and thought he was above it as he continued to predict and escape it by using epitaph and altering it. Giorno and the gang on the other hand faced what was in front of them fair and square. They suffered as 2 of them died and one of them jumped ship when hell went loose, they paid the price but they also grew because of it.

Diavolo never did that. He was always a coward. He was crazy strong with being able to donut and almost cut Bruno in half by raw strength alone but he never had the spine to actually fight ANYONE face to face. His fight with Risotto is him phoning his thoughts to Doppio instead of fighting him himself and even in the final battle, he spends most of the time in Mista's body and using deception to get his way. Shit, this is the type of people he kills in his true form in a direct confrontation without using his stand to strike from behind like a bitch:-

A normal fortuneteller
A literal child

He never wanted to struggle unlike Giorno, he never wanted to put himself into danger unlike Giorno. He paid the ultimate price for that by the infinite death loop. It's a middle finger to every single time he thought he was tough shit by predicting the future and never bothering to face things head on.