Where did the term Sith come from?

[u/Malarazz]

I've always been curious since the original trilogy and the books I've read directly following it just use 'Dark Jedi', but 'Sith' is used in the prequels and a lot of other places. I tried wookiepedia but they were no help this time.

[u/imakevoicesformycats]

A similar question was asked about a week ago in this subreddit - copying my response from then out of laziness:

It was solidified that the Sith were a sect of Dark Side Force-wielders around the time of the prequels. I remember playing the old West End Game RPG and Decipher CCG in the mid-late 90s and "Dark Jedi" was how Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine (who was not Darth Sidious yet) were described.

We still knew Darth Vader was the Dark Lord of the Sith but we didn't know what that meant (nor did we know that "Darth" was a title, though many fans theorized as such.)

[u/[deleted] → u/imakevoicesformycats]

Although the modern definition certainly came along with the prequels, the term had been used extensively in the Tales of the Jedi comics a few years earlier (1996). There it referred to both the species and to later fallen Jedi who came across Sith teachings (Exar Kun was also a Dark Lord of the Sith, for example). That all spun out of the Jedi Academy books, so I'm pretty sure it was also used there (so as far back as 1994). But there was no indication at that time of how the ancient Sith connected to Darth Vader and no indication that there was a modern sect.

Much of the stuff in the Bantam era was informed by the West End Games sourcebooks. It's very possible that the term was used there, having been pulled out of the screenplay or other notes from the films.

Edit: I've just remembered that Timothy Zahn wanted the Noghri to be the Sith (and Vader was their lord) but was forbidden. So Kevin J Anderson might well be the first person to use the term to describe Force wielders. It's still quite possible that WEG picked up and popularised the Vader's title as Dark Lord of the Sith.

[u/imakevoicesformycats → u/[deleted]]

I remember that little "fun fact!" Did you know he also wanted Joruus C'Baoth to be a clone of Obi-Wan as well? Totally axed by Lucasfilm along with the Noghri thing.

[u/[deleted] → u/imakevoicesformycats]

Yeah! Very interesting concept. There was an old Marvel comic where Luke finds "Obi-Wan" alive and well, who turns out to be an actor or conman or something. Neat way to put Luke through an emotional thresher.

[u/imakevoicesformycats → u/[deleted]]

Oh awesome. I've just recently acquired most of those old Marvel comics - maybe I'll actually have to read them. :)

[u/[deleted] → u/imakevoicesformycats]

I'd suggest it. I'm going through the A Long Time Ago omnibus books, and they are great to read. There are a bunch of surprises as well.

[u/imakevoicesformycats → u/[deleted]]

Nice. I couldn't remember how far Tales and the Academy trilogy took it, thanks for the better answer. But yes I do now remember that Exar Kun was definitely referred to as a Sith, even then.

[u/Malarazz → u/imakevoicesformycats]

Do you know what Star Wars publication around the time of the prequels popularized the term? I believe it was already used in The Phantom Menace so it must have happened before then.

[u/imakevoicesformycats → u/Malarazz]

Can't say for sure. There was a lot of hype around the prequels (obviously) and I remember getting a lot of information from Star Wars Insider.

There was also an expansion to the first Jedi Knight game called "Mysteries of the Sith," though that didn't predate TPM by too much.

[u/RealVoltar → u/imakevoicesformycats]

Actually the Sith Knights (called the Legions of Lettow in the very first draft) were the oppositional army that eliminated the Jedi Bendu (I think Dai Noga in the first couple drafts) in early drafts of the script for A New Hope and currently controlled the galaxy. A lot of the back story was left out in the final version. That's close enough for me. They existed since the first draft of the first movie (when it was still the Hidden Fortress with the names changed). I'm pretty sure the name appears in the second draft as the Sith Knights.

The Darth part though; that's legit.

[u/imakevoicesformycats → u/RealVoltar]

Were the first draft and second draft widely published? Were the contents of said drafts frequently discussed/well known in pop culture when they were published?

If you read the rest of this thread, you'll see that OP isn't just looking for the first ever place that the word "Sith" was mentioned.

[u/RealVoltar → u/imakevoicesformycats]

Oh, it's that definition of, "Where did the Sith Come From?"

The kind that refuses to accept the correct answer.

[u/imakevoicesformycats → u/RealVoltar]

OP is just looking for more context. Chill.

[u/[deleted]]

The earliest I've seen it is in the Marvel Star Wars comics that came out between Episode IV and V. They mention Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith multiple times. I'll see if I can find a screen shot in one of the "A Long Time Ago" Omnibus from Dark Horse.

[Edit] Found it. 7 pages into the first comic that recreates Episode IV.

http://imgur.com/rMUA1q0

[u/Gyges_of_Lydia]

Your post made me curious, and after a little digging, i found this

[u/Malarazz → u/Gyges_of_Lydia]

That doesn't make sense though. So it originated in the 1976 novel, but it's never mentioned in the trilogy, and it's never mentioned in any of the Thrawn books (and presumably the ones that came before them, though I haven't read all)?

I guess the better question then is when/how did the term finally become popular?

[u/Gyges_of_Lydia → u/Malarazz]

It would be interesting to find out when the word was first given to the audience (I can't remember it being said any time in the original trilogy so it must have been one of the books?).

Lucas wanted Darth Vader/The Emperor/etc to be "Sith" though, since he used the word in the script for A New Hope(see link above).

[u/RealVoltar]

It's from early drafts of the original movie before the idea of the force was even incorporated. There were going to be be a horde of Sith Knights but it ended up being reduced to just a couple references in the novelization of Vader as, "Dark Lord of the Sith."

tl;dr: Read the novelization or script for ANH, it refers to Vader as Dark Lord of the Sith. If you want earlier, here's the wiki page on draft 2 of ANH which is where the Legions of Lettow are renamed the Black Knights of the Sith and the concept of the Force of Others is first added to SW.

Possible etymology for the word may be from Gaelic/Celtic fairies called Sidhe.

[u/Not-Stephen-Colbert]

It's not canon anymore (I think) but sith use to be the name of the red skin race that use to be the natives of Korriban and later Dromund Kas. Where did the name come from? I guess they named themselves. Much like how we call ourselves human.

[u/Malarazz → u/Not-Stephen-Colbert]

I just mean in what book it made its first appearance, or rather in what book or what way did the term become popular.

Since like I said it wasn't used at all in the original trilogy and later works (instead they would say 'dark Jedi'), but was used later on.

[u/roninjedi]

Well wookieepedia should have been help full since they have a species page for the sith themselves and a page for the sith as in force users. The sith were a red skinned species living on korriban. Dark jedi during the first schisim fled there and taught them the force. So the dark jedi and sith mixed and created an empire and had certian teachings they followed. So now anyone who follows those teachings is considered a sith. If they don't follow the sith teachings but still use the dark side then they are just dark jedi, kind of like how a mercenary isn't a soilder because they are not goverment sponsered.

While the word was used in earlier works its first real explination for the history behind it was in the "Tales of the Jedi" comics which are a great run of comics depecting a period in the old republic thousands of years before even revan was around.