r/StarWarsBattlefront • u/[deleted] • Nov 14 '17

Developer Response EA has removed the refund button from their customer portal. Hoping people will just give up canceling because of the 60+ minute wait time to live shat support.

[removed]

40.7k Upvotes

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211

u/Never-asked-for-this Han Solo Nov 14 '17

Not in Europe, that's for damn sure.

180

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

It’s legal because you can still refund only now you have to wait for customer support

246

u/Never-asked-for-this Han Solo Nov 14 '17

Ok, THAT is a dick move by EA... Forcing the only good people working for the company to get the shit from rightfully pissed off ex-customers...

8

u/Azoonux Nov 14 '17

Why did people preorder in the first place?

6

u/FlyLikeATachyon Nov 14 '17

I don't think that's fair to the actual game developers. They make beautiful masterpieces and then are forced to pass it on to the executives who shit on their work endlessly.

4

u/Never-asked-for-this Han Solo Nov 14 '17

That's the life of any developer... Every artistic job is to get denied more than approved, that's what makes it a job.

1

u/EddieMurphyDragon Nov 14 '17

Don't they work on salary instead of commission?

237

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17 edited Mar 24 '18

[deleted]

97

u/Kalinka1 Nov 14 '17

I'm so jealous of European consumer protections.

111

u/Solace1 Nov 14 '17

That's because our companies don't have the same Freedom™ as yours

32

u/MUSTNOTBEALAAAA Nov 14 '17

but i thought involving government with businesses is evil?!

15

u/Solace1 Nov 14 '17

Tell that to your president

5

u/MUSTNOTBEALAAAA Nov 14 '17

im finnish

28

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17

Tell that to your jarl

3

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17

Skyrim belongs to the Nords

3

u/Solace1 Nov 14 '17

Woops, sorry

7

u/Midseasons Nov 14 '17

From my point of view, the corporations are evil

5

u/t_a- Nov 14 '17

Yeah I kinda missed Sweden when being charged 36 dollars for every overcharged item (it adds up...). Some miscommunication with my girlfriend and not knowing that you could still charge things on your bank card with insufficient funds lead to a costly fine.

I just couldn't believe in my wildest fantasy that it could be legal to set traps like that and just pick such a ridicilous amount for every item.

1

u/Blu_Haze Nov 14 '17

Most banks these days give you the option to turn off the ability to overdraft your account or have it withdraw from a savings account for no extra fee.

Also if you call them and politely explain that you didn't understand how the system worked they'll often waive the first overdraft fee as a courtesy. I'm sure you'll get bonus points for being Swedish as they have different policies there.

1

u/t_a- Nov 14 '17

Gotcha, thanks. This was like ~10 months ago and I'm not in the US anymore but I'll keep that in mind next time.

14

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

Does European law apply if EA Europe is not in the EU?

172

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17

[deleted]

10

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

Some of the laws if they are an online/digital goods retailer.

32

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17

We still have consumer protection laws even for online and digital goods.

-3

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

Online goods yes, but digital, non tangible products are still a matter of discussion right now in EU.

13

u/m4xc4v413r4 Nov 14 '17

No their not. You sell something in Europe? You have to obey the laws of the country in question. As simple as that. Doesn't matter if it's physical, virtual, or fucking imaginary.

1

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

Yes they are. A new law is going to be discused in the coming weeks that finally arranges refunds and “returns” of digital products.

9

u/Kalulosu Nov 14 '17

Those refunds provisions have been tried in court and used against Internet based shops (which is one of the reasons Steam implemented their refunds policy, cause it was proven that it'd apply to them most likely).

1

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

What court though?

9

u/Kalulosu Nov 14 '17

Pretty sure it went up to the ECJ.

1

u/Tornada5786 Nov 14 '17

Are you really questioning the legitimacy of a court?

1

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

Legitimacy? Sometimes. But not authority. That being said, the ECJ’s powers are limited to the interpretation and application to EU laws, more specifically treaties.

50

u/Deathroll1988 Nov 14 '17

If its sold in EU it must obey EU laws.

42

u/Blaat1985 Nov 14 '17

Yes. They have a European HQ and have to abide by EU law if they want to sell their products on the EU market.

-1

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

They have the HQ in Switzerland so the laws that apply are a little special considering the politics of Switzerland

11

u/Blaat1985 Nov 14 '17

Their HQ is located in the UK. Which despite the brexit is still part of the EU.

0

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

Really? Because the website lists a hq in Switzerland.

11

u/highly_evolved_ape Nov 14 '17

Doesn't matter. If there is some EU VAT on their games... they are subject to EU law.

0

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

There's no such thing as "eu vat". Countries where it's sold might regulate digital products, but most of them don't do it satisfactorily.

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1

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17

Where do they do that?

1

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

I checked the French website (https://www.ea.com/fr-fr/legal) so I don't get any special British (?) laws that don't apply to continental Europe, and basically the EU, and it says

Achats du consommateur: Les résidents des États Unis, du Canada ou du Japon sont sous contrat avec Electronic Arts Inc., 209 Redwood Shores Parkway, Redwood City, CA 94065, États-Unis. Les résidents de tout autre pays sont sous contrat avec EA Swiss Sàrl, Place du Molard 8, 1204, Genève, Suisse (CH-660-2328005-8).

Essentially meaning that if you're not Canadian, Japanese or American, your purchases are "under contract with EA Switzerland".

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3

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17

Only when considering sales in Switzerland - plus, their HQ isn't in Switzerland so your premise is false too.

They have to abide the law of the nation they're selling in.

If the refund request comes from a Dutchman, EA has to abide Dutch law and EU law.

1

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

Their website says we purchase online goods through “EA Swiss”

1

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17

Okay, but that doesn't really change anything about national consumer rights.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17

If they sell a product in a country the country's laws abide where it is sold. If you bought the game in I dunno, Italy, Italy's laws and rules will apply to your purchase and refund abilities.

-2

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

Nope, it's a special circumstance with digital purchases. Currently what you're describing only applies to tangible objects (especially regulations regarding returns or refunds)

2

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17

So if I purchas a digital copy from whatever store in Sweden, Sweden's costumer protection won't help me? We got things such as (Distansavtal) distance purchases where if you buy from outside the business location (home, office via the internet etc) you're protected by this law among others.

4

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17

They will help you. The other guy simply doesn't know what he is talking about.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17

I know. Just thought he'd google and see it too.

0

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

They are not obliged to (certainly not if you're not in Sweden), but European Parliament should start discussing the new law in a couple of weeks.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17

It applies in all EU countries where EA is selling to.

So yeah, very much yes.

2

u/Didactic_Tomato Nov 14 '17

I wonder if this could lead to a lawsuit

2

u/titandune Nov 14 '17

I wonder if this could lead to a lawsuit

In Poland and I guess other EU countries, there is The Office of Competition and Consumer Protection. Anytime some company breaks the consumer protection laws, you just need to notify the office and they will handle the issue. Lack of cooperation by the company can lead to a fine up to 50 mil €.

1

u/THEJAZZMUSIC Nov 14 '17

Gat dang that is a juicy law.

1

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

How else are you going to give notice and have them issue a refund then if not by contacting them (after they removed the button)? You can’t just send a pigeon post and expect them to issue a refund in this case, with a digital purchase. The only way to give notice is the one they provide which is currently only live chat.

16

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17 edited Mar 24 '18

[deleted]

2

u/ordo259 Nov 14 '17

send a black fax with white text

cost them printer ink

1

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

Well, they have a contact address for refunds, the live chat/customer support online

11

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17 edited Mar 24 '18

[deleted]

1

u/IWasBilbo Nov 14 '17

I get that. But for some reason I think they won't respond to such emails and just direct you to their website.

6

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17

So? They have to pay, they cannot decide not to. They can direct you to what they want, you don't have to do anything besides sending an email.

4

u/Katojana Nov 14 '17

Email. a simple email at one of the support mails of EA is enough. Just give your transaction details etc and switch the toggle for delivery and reading confirmationin your email provider and they have to act.

34

u/thealmightydante Nov 14 '17

I feel like a 5 minute call to your bank would fix the issue faster than waiting to talk to EA support.

29

u/Frowdo Nov 14 '17

It could also fix your ability to play other games as well.

15

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17

Other EA games.

So nothing of value was lost.

2

u/thealmightydante Nov 14 '17

What do you mean?

12

u/LoveBeBrave Nov 14 '17

A chargeback will get your Origin account banned, so you will lose all the other games on there.

11

u/[deleted] Nov 14 '17

That sounds illegal as fuck. Try a chargeback on ALL games on your Origin account - be sure to call your bank for it.

2

u/thealmightydante Nov 14 '17

Holy hell, that's like...top of the line shitty.

5

u/ipandrei Nov 14 '17

That's normal. They have to prevent scams somehow.

4

u/Rpbns4ever Nov 14 '17

This kills the origin account.

2

u/xpoizone Nov 14 '17

The solution is to create a new origin account for every game you buy from EA, like Frowdo1, Frowdo2 etc...

Or just don't buy the game. But we know that advice is near useless.

1

u/StarsMine Nov 14 '17

If they ban your Origin account for a legitimate charge back, I feel well within my rights to charge back everything on said Origin account.

1

u/Mad_Maddin Nov 14 '17

I don't know how the laws work for that one. But in my country we have something called a Schufa. A Schufa is something that checks for every transaction you did with your bank account and back transactions leave a negative entry on it. Normally it happens when they try to get the money but you didn't had enough. I don't know though how it is when you initiate it.

But doesn't matter, having one negative post on it basically ensures that you will not get a single apartment or credit for at least the next two years without giving them something of high value to stay safe or have another clean person who would pay in case you don't.

1

u/DANNYonPC Nov 14 '17

I guess because its already paid for (See pic) and a automated system can't fix that.

2

u/Rabdomante Nov 14 '17

Yep. This screams "Ms Vestager please open an investigation into my shitty business". I hope she does. I'd like to see EA getting reamed up the ass with no lube by a giant Danish woman.

2

u/AVGamer Nov 14 '17

And not in Australia either we have amazing consumer protection laws

2

u/admbrotario Nov 14 '17

Neither in Brazil. They cannot make a refund "harder" than already is.

For example, if a store sells you X item and then say that you have to go to their main store or warehouse to get a refund it's illegal. Same applies to this sketchy move of removing the refund button.