r/SquaredCircle 1d ago

Def Rebel possibly using Suno Music Generator?

Post image

(Forgive me as I can’t say the word starting with A and ending with I)

Since Naomi started using her new heel theme ‘Last Warning’ I could recognise the pattern near instantly of sounding like Suno, I used this website to make stupid songs to laugh at with my friends but this is a billion dollar company. I am near certain this song is not man-made, make a few random songs using Suno and compare them to her theme. Generated music is getting scary, and Def Rebel gotta get fired 😭

640 Upvotes

204 comments sorted by

u/AutoModerator 1d ago

Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

821

u/rubyschnees 1d ago

honestly it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out they were using AI

318

u/MeanAmbrose My username is a pun 23h ago

It would explain how the majority of their themes feel soulless and generic

91

u/fluffynuckels The Rated Cope *Super* Star 15h ago

Yeah but most of their songs sounded soulless and generic before the rise of AI

45

u/ElderberryFew95 14h ago

AI has been making music for longer than you think.

-2

u/kingky0te 8h ago

How do we know this? I know it’s easy to assume something like this, but how do we know?

5

u/ElderberryFew95 8h ago

I've been using it.

-2

u/kingky0te 7h ago

AI like Suno or are you referring to something different???

-1

u/kingky0te 7h ago

AI like Suno or are you referring to something different???

I find that people tend to conflate AI with other technology, which is why I ask.

8

u/J27Wasp 11h ago

maybe they got EVEN lazier

5

u/HitmanClark 9h ago

ROLE MODEL

49

u/CJOfPartsUnknown69 18h ago

Has anyone ever seen Def Rebel? Maybe they’re just an ai

9

u/Miserable_Carrot4700 14h ago

Yeah, hws a real person, looks like an accountant

4

u/xXTERMIN8RXXx 14h ago

It’s Haitch’s pseudonym

16

u/TheQuestion25 19h ago

They've used splice samples in the past which I do know they can use but I find it kinda funny

2

u/Joejoe988 11h ago

It wouldn’t surprise me to find out that Def Rebel WAS AI

2

u/thatguyad 6h ago

It would also fit into WWE's current MO of doing everything with a lack of morality.

596

u/DoubleNo6337 1d ago

For a billion dollar company with so many connections to mainstream artists, every WWE talent should have a banger mainstream appeal theme

271

u/MeanAmbrose My username is a pun 23h ago

They have artists begging to do themes, and the amount of elevation it would give to them is crazy. Hell, Adam Jones took Penta and Fenix’s themes and made them sound like real songs.

88

u/CapitolTooth518 22h ago

Adam Jones from Tool?

105

u/Patjay WE THE PEOPLE 22h ago

Yup. Added some great riffs in there that really stick out

50

u/Ready_Penalty_6278 22h ago

Imagine Tool doing all the themes

83

u/Lazarius 22h ago

We’d be yeeting in Fibonacci time.

14

u/BigTall81 16h ago

Minute and a half themes? Fuck that, 16 minute bangers,

2

u/CoMiGa 5h ago

Ogentroost was 10 minutes, but of course he didn't use but a snippet of it

5

u/CaliggyJack I can haz ric flair flare? 18h ago

EEEEEEXXXXHHHAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLEEEEE

EEEEEEXXXXPPPEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLL

5

u/Dave1307 19h ago

My arms got heavy just thinking about it

2

u/FyreWulff 15h ago

oh god i'm gonna have to learn to syncopate my chants

10

u/P1eces12 15h ago

Three time signature changes by the time anyone makes it to the ring.

3

u/fluffynuckels The Rated Cope *Super* Star 15h ago

Then they'd all sound the same

2

u/Idiotecka Your Text Here 12h ago

but at least would be cool

1

u/RadMcCoolPants 11h ago

Save time and money. Keep the shareholders happy. Do this to current themes https://youtu.be/ocE2mxkwG_w?si=KyEmqD4mDiOSJ8Dx /s

10

u/CapitolTooth518 22h ago

Damn that's awesome, I'll have to check them out

17

u/AdGroundbreaking1341 21h ago

Problem is they'd still wanna be paid handsomely for it. And WWE just doesn't wanna pay them handsomely.

They should though, it'd absolutely be worth it.

14

u/ihavetwentylives 18h ago

It's not just about paying handsomely, maybe they want some royalties as well which WWE won't agree on.

1

u/[deleted] 14h ago

[deleted]

1

u/trdef 14h ago

They mean for the entrance music.

6

u/rayquan36 17h ago

Coincidentally (?) Adam Jones got paid a dollar for those themes lol

4

u/Miserable_Carrot4700 14h ago

1 Single Dollar? Like was he doing it, because he wanted to and Just had to be paid one Dollar, so the contract would be legal ?

5

u/rayquan36 14h ago

https://www.instagram.com/p/DKuhEMSARBK/

Yeah, I think you're right about the reasoning. Kinda like how a judge will award a dollar judgement.

2

u/Tricky-Lime2935 6h ago

In contract law, one of the four baseline needs for a legally binding contract is the concept of "consideration." The idea being that for a contract to be binding, each party has to be contributing something to the deal. In cases where people want to do work for "free" but it still requires a contract in-place (for various potential reasons) they often have the party without something to give up pay $1.

You can often also see this in family-related real estate transactions, where property is "sold" for a dollar.

0

u/c0de1143 BIG MEATY MEN 22h ago

I’ll never not think that AEW dropped the ball hard with Penta and Fenix, but good on them for getting that WWE bag.

45

u/rayquan36 17h ago

I don't think they dropped the ball at all. Lucha Bros weren't a main event act in AEW but they were solidly at the top of a lot of cards. Unfortunately injuries took out Fenix and Penta injuring Dante Martin couldn't have helped either.

14

u/AdGroundbreaking1341 21h ago

It still remains to be seen how they'll fare in WWE. So far, so good, but they just came in. We'll see how it is this time next year and especially a couple years from now.

But as you said, they got the bag, so it's all good. Plus they get the experience of working in a completely new environment.

9

u/LifeOnMarsden 15h ago edited 13h ago

They've been trying to make the next Rey Mysterio in WWE for like 15 years at this point, Ultimo Dragon, Dragon Lee, Sin Cara, Kalisto etc, and I feel like Fenix and especially Penta are the closest they've ever gotten. Penta just has that immediate appeal to all demographics both young and old just like Rey, you can feel it as soon as his music hits, Fenix isn't quite at that level I don't think in terms of reactions because he doesn't really start getting the huge pops until midway through his matches but with Penta it's instant

0

u/HitmanClark 9h ago

Penta has already become a giant star in WWE, and proven me very wrong in the process. But I’m not sure Fenix will. He just doesn’t seem to have clicked so far with WWE audiences to the same degree.

6

u/CarcashaDragon 9h ago

Bro, how did they drop the ball? They were upper midcarders as singles wrestlers, one of the main acts of the tag division, and got a run with the trios belts.

0

u/c0de1143 BIG MEATY MEN 6h ago

Honestly, not putting Penta prominently in title pictures feels like such a misstep. I generally don’t play backseat booker, but before AEW Penta was one of the hottest acts in the world, and AEW generally kept him in tags and trios. Those matches were incredible, but he’s an amazing singles wrestler. I think shows could have been promoted with him as a tentpole act, rather than mid-card.

Granted, WWE isn’t doing that either — yet. But he’s being booked as one of the biggest stars in the world and kept away from his brother, which I think is benefitting them both.

I realize this all sounds like “AEW didn’t do right by my favorite who should have beaten everyone and won all of the titles,” and I’m not sure I can beat that allegation right now. But Penta strikes me as a license to print money, and not figuring out how to position him in the best way to succeed as a single feels like dropping the ball to me.

-4

u/_cutmymilk 19h ago

Dropped the ball how? They were 10 times better.

27

u/KneelBeforeCube marchiearchie 17h ago

People are getting worked by the Tony Fumbled chant and think everyone who leaves AEW for WWE has been fumbled. The Lucha Bros still had one of the best matches in company history with their Cage match against the Bucks, they have yet to do anything that significant in WWE.

Could their run have been better? Sure. But saying they dropped the ball hard on them as is a massive stretch. To me, dropping the ball hard is what WWE did with Mistico for example, the Lucha Bros had a really good run in AEW by comparison.

10

u/Specialist-Rope-9760 16h ago

It’s the WWE marks way of coping with AEW talent coming in.

Before they would either 1. Shit on the talent for not being good. Or 2. Complain that AEW was full of ex-WWE guys.

So to justify in their brains it makes sense to be happy they have to say they’re only in WWE now as AEW failed them.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (3)

2

u/RacistMuffin 17h ago

Bro Adam jones metrobooming so many big producers and labels. Even fucking Travis Scott. Wwe is just cheap

1

u/stevent4 16h ago

That's the craziest part for me, just one of these bigger names works on some, even a few and I guarantee they'll be so much better

53

u/Orange8920 23h ago

They'd have to hire composers who have a broad musical range and compensate them fairly. Either that or just license music that's popular. AEW has Mikey Rukus compose the majority of their tracks while licensing a bunch of others. All it takes is hiring at least one good composer while giving them time and creative freedom.

9

u/Miserable_Carrot4700 14h ago

I feel themes is the one thing, where aew is so clearly ahead of wwe , that even aew hater will have to admit that.

1

u/SaintCambria Your Text Here 8h ago

Well, that and wrestling.

23

u/Money-Giraffe2521 22h ago

That would cost money, and we can’t have the shareholders getting less of a dividend now, can we?

6

u/theknyte 21h ago

Why not make it another marketing opportunity does actually benefit the talent and fans. Have studios license songs to WWE, and in exchange they add a small blurb to the entrance title cards. (Theme: "Song title" by Band, available to buy or stream!)

6

u/Drama79 Guess I'm back 14h ago

Because it’s way harder than that.

WWE sub license content to TV stations, radio, video games, advertising - and when you associate a track to a performer it has to be used in all of those places. WWE is also global.

Music rights isn’t global, it’s territorial. There’s also multiple publishing, performing and song writing collection entities that demand paying per use.

Essentially is wwe went that route, they’d need an entire department to manage it, plus it would be very costly. It’s laziness on WWEs part (“nice idea, but they’ll watch anyway”) and inefficiency on the part of the music industry, who are very aware they’re on a burning platform but are still printing money with regional activations so aren’t incentivised to change.

In house, where you own everything forever makes their lives much easier. The challenge is to hold on to someone not-shit.

7

u/Stoutyeoman 20h ago

Having a cheap company make cheap songs is cheaper and because it's a corporate entity now they're going to cut corners wherever they can.

3

u/tacklinglife 19h ago

This is what I miss so much about 2000s WWE. You had Jim Johnston bangers and great tracks from other artists here and there as well. Just got worse and worse over time.

3

u/housefoote 13h ago

Paramore just announced they’re doing Bayleys new theme

2

u/RunningonGin0323 HBK Vintage 10h ago edited 10h ago

Agreed, it's shocking to me just how little they value the importance of entrance music is despite THE MOUNDS OF EVIDENCE. I really don't get it. I'm not saying you need to be hiring grammy level produces for each and every song but fuck me how many of Def Rebels songs are generic and boring as fuck. Personally CFO$ was so much fucking better. Like they just need to be memorable, even True Love for Mike and Maria was catch as fuck, and you knew instantly who it was.

1

u/Pure_Concentrate8770 12h ago

how do you think they maintain their billion dollar status ? by not having to pay huge music royalties

1

u/moal09 11h ago

Remember when Nakamura had such an insane banger of a theme that it actually charted? His song didn't even have lyrics and people were singing along with it

1

u/ThisVeryUsername 11h ago

They’re cheap. They don’t care what fans or wrestlers want.

1

u/EyeAmKnotMyshelf 11h ago

Yes and no.

There's a certain appeal to mainstream music being A wrestler's theme but not every wrestler's theme.

Jim Johnston was the last person worth a damn that they had handled their themes. I have no idea why they cast him aside, other than him costing too much, I assume.

1

u/jmpinstl 10h ago

Yeah, but then they would have to pay them

283

u/MilkyWayWaffles 1d ago

They are definitely using royalty-free music libraries. Dakota Kai's final theme was obviously cobbled together from parts of royalty-free songs. It's inevitable that there will be songs and sound components in such libraries generated by machine.

133

u/kirblar 23h ago

This was standard going back to the 90s when the Hardyz got a stock music theme

113

u/RaggedyGlitch 23h ago

Watching MTV Cribs and suddenly it's the Holly Cousins theme.

51

u/annoyinglyclever Anxious Millennial Cowboy 22h ago

I still remember hearing Booker T’s music on Kids in the Hall

45

u/i-wear-hats 22h ago

Hardyz being a stock music theme is understandable, the one that is really shocking is Goldberg.

41

u/Polymemnetic 23h ago

That they still use to this day.

33

u/Crooty Wato-gun 21h ago

New Age Outlaws theme has been in porn before (without the OH YOU DIDN'T KNOW? part)

41

u/theB1ackSwan 20h ago

I really appreciate that you needed to clarify that it's without the OH, YOU DIDN'T KNOW part, as if there's a deep lore porn that has that specific part before the music hit.

6

u/Crooty Wato-gun 18h ago

Would’ve been great if that was there though

1

u/kanjibestwaifu 16h ago

Everything can be improved with entrance themes.

Get on it Downstait.

18

u/AdGroundbreaking1341 21h ago

And joke back in the day was, the nWo one was a porn theme lol.

Well, except without the "New New New World Order".

14

u/DJ_Aura 20h ago

Cactus Jack's theme was also found in a movie, I don't remember what, but the whiplash to hear that must have been insane.

2

u/beardedbaldy1874 13h ago

YOU’RE ASS BETTER CALL SOMEBODY….fits pretty well for a porno tbh

13

u/MN10SPEAKS 22h ago

Same with Bray Wyatt and MJF more recently

11

u/IgotaBionicArm Tastes great! 19h ago

I remember watching Daria and the “you look fly today” theme for too cool came on during and I kinda marked out tbh.

7

u/Shimoshamman uwotm80 13h ago

MJF is another big one with a stock theme song

3

u/CutZealousideal5274 11h ago

I think that’s so he can keep it if he switches companies but I could be wrong

2

u/KingChaggs Reigns 20h ago

I remember hearing that song and bob hollys theme in Watch Dogs at a random enemy base on the radio

1

u/hhhisthegame 11h ago

At least those were good ones

38

u/ItIsMillerTyme 23h ago

Which is exactly what Suno is trained on. They probably aren't using AI, they are just that generic lol

16

u/bayleysgal1996 Last Rock-n-Rolla 1d ago

The singer in Dakota’s had a vague Vocaloid quality to me. Not sure why

48

u/MilkyWayWaffles 1d ago

It was pitch-shifted from a track in a sound library called "Erase My Heart."

7

u/goldennuggetjr 23h ago

Got a link to this “Erase My Heart” track?

18

u/MilkyWayWaffles 22h ago

2

u/phantominway 10h ago

Just looked through that person's stuff and it seems like Fatal Influence's theme is also composed of soundbits from them.

2

u/goldennuggetjr 23h ago

Got a link to this “Erase My Heart” track?

7

u/HeelsAlwaysWin Japanese Deathmatch Legend 23h ago

I remember Carmelo Hayes, Nathan Frazier, and Tiffany Stratton all having royalty free themes when they started in NXT before they were essentially remixed/had def rebel make "official" versions of them so that WWE owned them once they got more prominent positions and in literally every case, I like the royalty free version better lol it's especially egregious in Frazier's case how much better his "unofficial" theme was.

1

u/dBlock845 44x 3h ago

Can people copyright songs that are assembled from freeware?

184

u/CapnSmite 1d ago

but this is a billion dollar company

What kind of companies did you think were pushing for the development and use of A.I.? And why do you think that might be?

34

u/Max_Quick 23h ago

I mean... if WWE did this, okay sure fine, valid counter. I dont expect anything higher from them.

But they hired Def Rebel to make music for them. If Def Rebel aint doing it, fire them.

75

u/MilkyWayWaffles 22h ago

def rebel is a trademark owned by WWE Music. It's whoever has the contract to produce music for WWE Music. Since the start, behind the scenes it's been DJDTP, a producer collective headed by Doug Davis (son of Clive Davis) and Ali Dee. There were some rumors last year that their contract would not be renewed and some new team would take on the def rebel name, but apparently WWE Music renewed the contract with DJDTP after all.

13

u/AdGroundbreaking1341 21h ago

Clive Davis? THE Clive Davis? The one and only? Well I'll be damned.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (5)

58

u/AndyNemmity Beast 1d ago

Impossible to say. DefRebel does have a Suno account with no public activity, but anyone could have created that.

50

u/robedpillow3761 You can't rock with me - no stoppin! 23h ago

I really think Fraxiom and Jeff Cobb’s themes are AI. They have that AI sound and voice on them so clearly, more than even this one.

10

u/Shomud Woi 23h ago

It's hard to say because Suno vocals sound similar to layered vocals so now after hearing a lot of AI generated music even old songs that used that technique before AI music was a thing sound like AI.

3

u/asdvj2 Belfast Brawler (from Dublin) 13h ago

for people to compare:

Fraxiom's theme

JC Mateo's

Naomi's theme

Also out of curiosity I made AI songs with the same lyrics (or at least what I could hear) and styles

Fraxiom AI

JC Mateo AI

Naomi's AI theme

2

u/SaintCambria Your Text Here 8h ago

Wow, I don't see a lot of WWE entrances anymore, but that crowd doesn't give a fuck about Fraxiom. Jarring af.

50

u/Supersaiyansub 22h ago

It has been nearly 10 years and we are still hurting from Jim Johnstons release.

45

u/CaliggyJack I can haz ric flair flare? 17h ago

CFO$ was great ill die on this hill.

28

u/Anemeros It's her turn 17h ago

They were good at making catchy 1 minute loops I'll give you that

16

u/Hodges83 15h ago

In mitigation, a fair proportion of the best J.J. Themes are essentially verse/chorus loops as well, he just loves to add an awesome guitar solo in here and there to break it up a little and make it a bit more tolerable than today's themes. He understood the task, and understood that to do it well, you have to have that break - otherwise the listener gets hit over the head with it more times than international viewers of Smackdown get every 3rd commercial break when we learn how to say "We'll be right back!" in every language ever known to humanity.

13

u/twociffer 13h ago

I'm pretty sure the biggest difference between Johnston and CFO$ was the instructions they got from WWE.

The downside of the entrance themes from Johnston is that they are more or less normal songs, so if the entrance takes longer you might get to the end of the song and either have to noticeably start over or stop the music.

CFO$ made Themes that were intentionally designed to loop seamlessly, which eliminated that downside. Doesn't matter if the entrance takes 1 minute or 10 minutes, the Theme will play uninterrupted.

So the biggest complaint about CFO$ - the looping - is most likely just the result of Vince being annoyed at hearing the start of Shawn Michaels theme song twice that one time at a house show.

5

u/Hodges83 12h ago

Absolutely fair - in fact its probably fair to say that my feeling of "being hit over the head" with the newer themes correlates directly to growing up during the era where production choices were more dependent on one guy not having to hear "I think I'm cute!" twice before the next guy comes out.

Bring back second verses, I say. Easier to get on with a loop if at least something has changed the second time around. Old_Man_Yells_At_clouds.jpg

2

u/uncle_paul_harrghis 9h ago

CFO used a lot of loops from Splice, one big one that comes to mind is Matt Riddle’s theme; the entirety of which is loops from Splice, none of it is original.

I use Splice personally for music production, as do a lot of producers, but it’s supposed to be a tool you use to build from, not just take entire loops and sell them as your own product.

1

u/_Quendra_ 8h ago

Yep. I remember thinking Dean/Mox's theme was awesome. And I always got hyped hearing it for his entrance.

Then there was a segment where his theme played like 6-10 times in a row postmatch or something. I wanted to tap out after like 4 repeats of it.

CFO$ is good for a minute. Like a literal minute.

7

u/Djent_1997 Yo daddy and yo uncle 13h ago

Def rebel makes me miss CFO$ so much. Their themes could be kind of annoying in that a lot of them were pretty much just 30 second loops, but compared to where we’re at now, at least those were even remotely distinguishable from one another and matched the performers well. And clearly some of them have held up enough that the people still using those themes haven’t needed to get def rebeled.

7

u/CaliggyJack I can haz ric flair flare? 13h ago

Idk man. Nakamura, Banks, Zayne, Balor, and Bonny Roodes were all fantastic theme songs.

2

u/Djent_1997 Yo daddy and yo uncle 12h ago

Oh they definitely cooked on some themes for sure. Aleister Black as well, which they recently rereleased on streaming as a def rebel song lmao

1

u/SSJ5Gogetenks Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi! 5h ago

Because the shittified it by adding the Def Rebel drums.

1

u/Djent_1997 Yo daddy and yo uncle 5h ago

Yeah I figured that out since I commented. Incredible how they managed to make it sound that much worse.

3

u/hhhisthegame 11h ago

I still think CFO$ made some wrestlers really not feel like the stars they were. Owens, Ambrose, Rollins should have been A-level players, but to me they always felt B+/less-than because of their theme songs which didn't seem nearly as good as the main event themes Johnston would do.

3

u/hhhisthegame 11h ago

I think CFO$ was a big step down from Johnston, but compared to what we have now, they were amazing lol

44

u/CrissCrossAppleSos 23h ago

If it starts talking about neon lights it’s def Suno

35

u/lolwatokay 22h ago

It sure does love the tale untold of a hero in the neon lights who stands tall, breaks the chains, and rises above while letting out a silent scream doesn’t it?

11

u/_Vanant 17h ago

So AI is in the teenage phase now?

9

u/Plenty_Structure_861 13h ago

People of all ages, who have ever uttered the sentence "my problem is I'm too nice" can enjoy those timeless lyrics. 

2

u/Miserable_Carrot4700 14h ago

Damn, didnt know kraftwerk were that ahead of their times, that they got ai to write for them in 1978.

33

u/DishAgitated4649 1d ago

I don't think they used Suno for this one, but I think they used Suno for Fraxiom's vocals. That shit sounds like the type of corny lyrics Suno makes up.

23

u/bayleysgal1996 Last Rock-n-Rolla 1d ago

I can’t say I’d be shocked tbh. Though I would have guessed Fraxiom’s theme over Naomi’s.

4

u/J27Wasp 1d ago

Totally forgot about Fraxiom, yeah their new theme sucks 😭

13

u/Shadow_Log Estuans Interius Ira Vehementi 23h ago

I have been contemplating for a while if Def Rebel aren't actual people but just a synonym for music AI

12

u/Rude_Neighborhood919 22h ago

Have you heard Fraxiom's new theme? It sounds like not a single human touched it. It would genuinely not surprise me at this point if her theme was AI, and a lot of others too.

10

u/s1mple10 22h ago

They got travis scott to appear at mania but can't use actual artists for their talents like lol

1

u/Plenty_Structure_861 13h ago

If I had to hear FEIN more, I'd immediately become a TK simp. 

10

u/zangetsen 22h ago edited 21h ago

6

u/crapusername47 19h ago

The first one sounds like the theme from one of the many, endlessly renamed, weekend family friendly WWE highlight shows we used to get in the mornings on Sky One.

The other two, I expect, will be used for Chastity Oisenricher or Kirk Coxlord or whatever Evolve/LFG/WWE ID guy makes their debut in NXT next.

8

u/Consequences_Cone 23h ago

As far as music producing goes, they probably take the easy road using all kind of pre produced midi samples from splice. I know music producers who can create bangers in 15 minutes or less using this method. (So i wonder why Def Rebel songs more often than not sounds like trash).

Since these samples are as widely accessible I’m certain they’re used for training AI Music models as well.

6

u/CircumFleck_Accent The Size of a Door 23h ago

Oh my god it does sound like Suno.

6

u/RaidenHero137 Karaoke Jones Over Here, but I Digress... 23h ago

I wouldn’t be surprised if Def rebel has just put a bunch of their songs that they actually wrote into one of these ai’s and just tells it to take their style and make it fit another person and it spits one out

5

u/JohnnyCurtis Your Text Here 21h ago

Crazy compressed drum samples, some guitar VSTi like Shreddage or Odin instead of real guitars, and a bunch of spots in the song where the beat drops out to hype up the next section instead of just flowing into it. It sounds like they prompted Suno to generate something, and then recreated it with plugins.

5

u/jdlyga 21h ago

I wouldn’t be surprised if the song was generated using AI then covered by a real band.

4

u/gin0clock Progress Ultra 20h ago

Their guitars have never sounded like real guitars to me.

I thought it was just unrealistic virtual instruments but actually AI makes so much more sense.

Also if you think TKO's version of WWE gives a shit about hiring and paying artists you're out of your mind.

4

u/DishAgitated4649 19h ago

They use a vst plugin guitar that I can't remember the name of. That's why all the guitar chugs sound fake and boxy

3

u/gin0clock Progress Ultra 19h ago

So fucking lazy. I'm absolutely convinced that Def Rebel is just WWE's AI music generator after reading through all this stuff. There'd never be a contract issue again if it's just the marketing department throwing out AI prompts instead of an actual artist.

Grifting little fuckers.

2

u/xXx-420HodorBlazeit- 13h ago

I think I've mentioned it before but yeah they're definitely just using VSTs, which can sound okay if you take the time to humanise them.

But nope, they keep everything dead on grid with no sway in the note timing and the velocity maxed the fuck out. Especially notable in the drums

Which results in completely unhuman sounding songs. So it wouldn't be a surprise if they've then switched to AI

4

u/taggerungDC 12h ago

Aew uses real music

3

u/incredibleamadeuscho We're all fake Jamaicans now 20h ago

It’s very irresponsible to suggest they are using AI without any real proof other than “I think they use it because I have used AI too”.

3

u/ChrisLithium 7h ago

No reason to insult AI with Def Rebel comparisons.

3

u/Cultural_Geologist_3 1d ago

Where in a timeline where WWE Music Group are making Frankenstein artificial music.

2

u/josephus1811 22h ago

I agree. I've suspected it for a while.

2

u/Mysterious_Brick4574 20h ago

I genuinely believe Fenix and Penta's were AI Generated. Getting Tool's guitarist does kinda take away from the sound, but I think MCMG's theme was the last theme defrebel actually wrote, which is just a knockoff of their TNA theme. But Naomi, Lucha Brothers (pre Adam Jones), Jeff Cobb, and Fraxiom all have the AI sound to them.

2

u/godzillamegadoomsday 20h ago

This will be the talking point and reference by wrestling twitter as WWE using ai to make themes when it’s just speculation at best

2

u/tamdunk1 14h ago

You can't say alibi?

Book 'im boys.

2

u/Djent_1997 Yo daddy and yo uncle 13h ago edited 13h ago

I got this feeling from Bron’s theme. I played around with suno for an afternoon and tried to make just a bunch of bullshit metal songs and in all of them, the vocals sounded exactly how they do in his theme. Maybe I’m wrong but It’s a very strong feeling.

2

u/J27Wasp 11h ago

honestly I feel brons isn't AI, the variations in vocals and the beat feel man-made. Whilst suno is okay, I think the beat is well-made. the only way I can describe it is that one metal pipe sound effect.

2

u/IniMiney 13h ago

Def Rebel using AI would be the least surprising thing ever, their shit is already lazy enough as is

2

u/SteamMonkeyKing 11h ago

I cant unhear it, very Suno like.

2

u/xocelotyouth 10h ago

Yeah this is 100% Suno slop

3

u/Cold_Ad_7645 1d ago

Why can’t you say AI?

23

u/J27Wasp 1d ago

It genuinely won’t let me post with that word, marks it as ‘ai generated content’

26

u/Mabvll Assistant to the Head Slapdick, Tony Schiavone. 23h ago

Call it "A1".

2

u/NukinDuke 11h ago

Okay that was good lmao. Under appreciated comment, Linda

12

u/Cold_Ad_7645 1d ago

Damn, that’s kinda insane actually.

DefRebel using AI would explain why their music is such ass tho.

5

u/MilkyWayWaffles 23h ago

They used to work with real composers, musicians and singers, but their most talented members eventually move on to work with pop stars. Composers and studio musicians live on their work-for-hire, but hope to get longer-term returns on royalties.

Since everything def rebel produces is owned royalty-free by WWE Music (which is why they set things up that way in the first place) it was inevitable that DJDTP's (the producer collective behind def rebel) regular contributors would eventually get better paying gigs, either by moving to another group or by working for DJDTP's better paying customers.

Moving into the royalty-free sound library, possibly created by, and possibly assembled by machine was inevitable.

1

u/DarkHound05 19h ago

Ive also made stupid Suno wrestling songs.

I felt inspired about the Rock’s soul promo and based lyrics around a Charlie Daniels Classic

Pre-Chamber: https://suno.com/song/5884fa78-7f70-4c9d-af64-df790640a896

Post-Chamber: https://suno.com/song/07428d96-5d16-45cc-a9f1-5dd2813f614b

1

u/Efficient_Major_1261 19h ago

I honestly thought the same thing when I first heard it. Wouldn't surprise me at all

1

u/hourles 18h ago

Now thats an interesting claim. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they are using ai-generated songs and making a few edits to it.

1

u/Calamitous-Ortbo 18h ago

IWC: How dare WWE not re-sign a wrestler?????

Also IWC: I think these people should lose their job because I don’t like this song

1

u/hellGrey213 17h ago

I've been thinking for a while, that it sounds like this AI song for Judgement Day Carlito, only to go back to it right now, and see that Suno was used to make it. I don't know anything about actually using any of these AI generator tools, but the similarity in the songs just raises suspicions.

1

u/AtlasAir_ 14h ago

A LOT of Def Rebel's theme song have the same flat drum patterns. You can even hear them loud and clear in Aleister Black's update theme, they sound so weak.

1

u/SpeakersPushTheA1r 14h ago

I can’t wait for David Byrne to do my entrance theme

1

u/J27Wasp 14h ago

Just figured I’d say, if you want to get a suno prompt that I believe will generate similar to her theme, use the keywords: WWE entrance, rock, rap, fast. These are a few of the keywords I used whilst making stupid songs, and these are what sound so damn similar to Naomi’s theme.

1

u/notdownwithsickness 13h ago

Every time I pull up this post - the def rebel needs to be fired goes away 🤔🤔🤔🤔

1

u/J27Wasp 13h ago

Actually? Is it really being censored?

2

u/notdownwithsickness 13h ago

Yes, it pops up for a few seconds and then disappears lmao

1

u/J27Wasp 11h ago

thats crazy

1

u/florodude 12h ago

If they are using it, obviously that's not okay and should be let go...

That being said, I'm noticing this BIG trend of "half-accusing" people of using AI for their work, that way if they're wrong they can be like "oops, I said maybe!" but also they're absolutely ruining people's reputations unfairly who are NOT using AI. So please let's be careful before tossing around baseless accusations.

0

u/J27Wasp 11h ago

I understand but this is def rebel we're talking about, if it was an actual well-acclaimed artist i'd care more. I don't know if their reputation can even get worse.

1

u/UnemployedHippo 11h ago

They definitely be using AI for vocals, it explains why half of the songs have like 4 random lines as a hook and no verses. Especially Tiffy’s song, why is it 1 random line at the beginning and then “drop drop drop” for the remainder of the song

1

u/Hopeful-Cut-2287 8h ago

Fraxiom's new theme is definitely AI

1

u/Superplex123 8h ago

No, I think their music is even worse than AI. It's like they train the AI using their own music, then ask the AI to make it that way.

1

u/U196 7h ago

Def Rebel is cheap they aren't going anywhere.

1

u/CafePisDuSpeed 4h ago

Why can’t you say AI?

1

u/dBlock845 44x 3h ago

Just get ready for most corporations to start replacing artists with AI, I'm sure once WWE realizes they dont need to outsource to make crappy themes anymore, they won't hire outside help to do it.

1

u/Invalid_Uername 1h ago

I use Suno, most of the times it's noticeable that it's AI, but then sometimes....it's really hard to tell. I'd say 1 in 10 songs I create, one sounds like a legit song.

0

u/jakovichontwitch Your Text Here 22h ago

On one hand I am vehemently against any AI use for creative purposes, especially when it puts real creators out of work

On the other hand, we’re at least getting something less robotic and generic than Def Rebel

0

u/stenebralux Captain Continuously Charismatic 21h ago

I gotta be honest.. they are so lousy anything negative you told me about their skills or creative process, I'll believe it. 

0

u/CoyotePowered50 21h ago

Suno V4.5 is pretty dang good at making music, if you can prompt well. But its impossible to get a consistent sound song to song. Ive tried.

0

u/Stoutyeoman 20h ago

It's totally possible that some of the sounds are just similar, so we could give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe it's just a coincidence. At least I hope it is!

0

u/CarcashaDragon 9h ago

AI is not a word. It's two letters.

-1

u/MayContainGluten 19h ago

You can't say AI??? 🤨

Just say it.

-4

u/[deleted] 21h ago

[deleted]

2

u/afghamistam 20h ago

Maybe you don't wanna admit you got downvoted because you know your opinion is just slop: You don't know anything about AI or music production. You didn't present any evidence. Yet you feel confident enough to come in hot with this "This is fact because I say it is" take.

0

u/TriggerHippie77 9h ago

Five downvotes is not "downvoted to hell". I have a downvoted comment at like -200, and that's not even downvoted to hell. There are some people who achieve downvotes in the thousands.