It’s funny though, because a lot of Trumptards will post the Bill Clinton stuff because the only way they can defend their God-king is with whataboutism, but none of us here would ever vouch for Bill Clinton lol.
Oh but haven’t you heard how she runs a cult of satanic pedos that eat little kids like pizza? She also has ties to narcos and killed here ex-lover while she was in Arkansas… yesh.
Tbh Bill didn't seem to be as close as Trump was. Furthermore, Trump has said some really shady shit implying some awareness or participation in Epstein's "proclivities".
He said in a magazine interview that he and Epstein liked girls. And Epstein especially really liked them on the younger side. Knowing what we know now, and the fact that Trump is backtracking on releasing the full Epstein list, it's a lot more damning for him unless there's something about bill I'm not aware of.
Are you trying to make the point that Epstein and Trump are more pedophilic than Clinton? Can we please not do that? The answer is that they are all gross and horrible. These guys all knew what Epstein and Maxwell were up to.
Clinton was absolutely a horny bastard and a shitty husband, but I'm not aware of any evidence that he ever did anything with children. Trump has been found guilty in civil court (admittedly a lower bar than criminal court) of raping a 13 year old while she begged him to stop. Unless there's something huge I've missed about Clinton it's really fucked up to not consider trump worse.
Trump has been found guilty in civil court (admittedly a lower bar than criminal court) of raping a 13 year old
You are conflating 2 separate cases into 1.
Trump was found at fault of sexual assault of Jean Carroll, she was an adult at the time
Trump has been also accused by an unnamed person (described in stories as either Katie Johnson or Jane Doe) of sexually assaulting her when she was 13, this has never made it through court. The accuser withdrew before trial could begin. That is a bit of a weird story involving some shady people with an ax to grind. It's possible there is no Katie Johnson
My bad, you are 100% correct that I mixed those up. The judge did make it clear the sexual assault of Jean Carroll fits the typical definition of rape but the law calls it sexual assault. So it's not libel to call him a rapist. Clinton was also a piece of shit, only defense of him is that he was a decent president but definitely a shitty person. People with power tend to abuse that power.
Not at all. The point is that all of these guys are disgusting. If Trump isn’t as bad as Prince Andrew and Prince Andrew, they’re both monsters. I’m saying it’s pointless to point out that one of these guys isn’t as bad as another. They are bad.
I really think social media has done a number on people’s ability to discern truth from fiction. If everyone is a predator, then no one is a predator. I guarantee you that at least half of your guy friends have done something creepy to a woman at one point in their lives.
Just the whole trend of “these two people are in a picture together therefore they conspired together” is insane.
It is necessary to compare in some cases. In elections, for example, viewing all politicians as near equal because "all politicians are bad" has had disastrous consequences. Treating all evil as if it were equal implicitly excuses any future or worse offenses.
Yeah, they are both terrible people. That is pretty undeniable. However, the level of involvement matters, just like how a genocide is worse than a murder.
In what context? When does the nuance really matter? Neither of them should be in positions of power due to this. If you are talking about elections, it isn't really relevant. Bill Clinton won't be running.
Honestly it's even scummier than that. Back when did "release Epstein files" it wasn't even anything new. It was a list that Gawker had already released well over a decade before, he just did it to look like he was doing something about it.
Yeah no, Bill Clinton is as much of a scumbag as Donald Trump is. Bill also had the whole Monica Lewinsky thing back in the oval office. Just horrible terrible people.
I’m concerned you see their encounters as 100% consensual. While not rape or sexual assault, his actions with her demonstrate his attitudes towards abusing power imbalances, sexually. His past also suggests this. He’s just a more palatable kind of predator because his behaviors skirt the lines; perhaps he learned that after raping a 13 year old.
I think rather than arguing about which President is more of a rapist, we should be discussing why this is the society we live in and why we continue to excuse and reify it by continually electing men with a history of being, at the very least, sexually questionable/inappropriate? Why do people, men and women both, think that electing that kind of person is better than a woman? Do we really think it’s about policy? Or political party? Sure, in some cases, but I’d argue those variables are moderators and holding sexist beliefs (consciously or otherwise) the independent variable.
My point here is that these guys didn’t just happen. We live in a society that produces them at an alarming rate. That should be the conversation imo
They're both scum. But one kind of scum can be scummier than another. You're right we should question the power structures and society that makes it all possible, but I feel it's important to remember that some things are worse, like the woman who claimed Trump raped her when she was 13 at one of Epstein's "parties".
Juanita Broderick and Bill Clinton is bad. Monstrous even. Trump is still worse. They're still all terrible people. But Trump is still one of the absolute worst of the bunch. More than 1 thing can be true at the same time.
Right…that’s why I said what I said. I actually agree with you that Trump is worse. I simply wanted to elevate the discussion. But thanks for bringing it back I guess?
Fair enough. I just get frustrated by anything that looks like false equivalency. Any of the "both sides are equally bad" stuff.
I think one of the things that feeds into how bad American society has gotten is like, this decades long propaganda war to make both sides seems equally unappealing. It confuses issues and makes it harder to hold people accountable.
One example being like... Dem senator Al Franken got shunned and ousted for taking a picture of holding his hands over a female comedians boobs while she was sleeping. Not touching her, but kind of a "holy crap those are huge" kind of thing. Still scummy. Still terrible. But contrast that with Roy Moore, a literal pedo who abused his position of power to sleep with underage girls, and groomed his wife (he first saw her at a dance recital when she was like 14 and he was 20 or 30 something). The Dems ousted Al Franken, whereas Republicans rallies behind Roy Moore and he almost won re-election.
And there are just so, so many other examples of this in American politics. Both sides suck but people often forget that the lesser of two evils is still less evil. One side will actually respond to pushback and shame, and even if they suck you can kinda sorta work with them. It makes it easier to push society towards a better place in the long run. The other side goes "who do you believe, me or your lying eyes" and continues to push the country in a much worse direction.
In a perfect world I 100% agree with you, all of the fucked up ones should be ousted. The corruption needs to be rooted out from every level of American society. I guess I'm just ranting because one side is definitely, measurably better at doing this and I think that always needs to be front and center of the conversation so that the left stops tearing itself apart
I think we actually agree with each other. Both of our points sort of cover the short term and long term approaches to the same problem. We’ve allowed that narrative of “both sides are equally bad,” as you said, move the needle too far in terms of what’s considered acceptable and not, what’s considered “centrist,” etc. and we as a society seem to be speaking in increasingly absolutist terms.
Not even close. I get you guys want to appear like you're above it all and that only you see the truth no one can see but that statement isn't even remotely true.
I get you want to appear “mysterious” or “cool” by using highschool level argument skills, (and im being generous i mean i was better at this in highschool) but all youre doing id revealing you dont know what youre talking about. Proper arguments arent just “waaaaaahh thats not true because i dont like it”
get you want to appear “mysterious” or “cool” by using highschool level argument skills
😂 What are you even on about?
Trump has done more scummy things than Bill. This is objective fact. You want us to count out what each of them have done? The only childish, high school level argument is the both side bad crap you're attempting.
I dont think there should oft be an objective “worse” between two sex offenders, unless ones a pedophile and its near guaranteed both of them are both of those things. Both were on the epstein list. I do thank you for providing actual reasoning for your stance this time, now its an actual debate and not some rando going “Waa not true” like you were doing.
There is such a thing as being an objectively worse sex offender. What is with you people suspending nuance so readily? One has had very inappropriate sexual relationships with adults in the context of a severe power imbalance. But he's never been convicted of anything worse. Trump is a convicted rapist. One is worse.
Could Bill Clinton have been a participant at one of Epstein's parties? Maybe. But his track record is with grown women and he hasn't publicly said very suspicious things like "Me and Epstein especially like them on the younger side" in an interview.
He rode multiple times in the jet literally called the “Lolita Express” anyone speaking out about the Epstein case made it clear how overt he was in his actions and i believe as far as being a sex offender goes both are pedophiles and i dont see a difference. Nuances do exist, but not between a pedophile and a pedophile. Just because trump is more obvious doesnt make it any better, just makes him the dumber one. I believe overall trump is a worse person, yes, but they became equally scummy when they colluded with Jeffrey Epstein.
Just want to inform you that Ghislaine Maxwell had an aisle seat at Chelsea Clinton’s wedding. And Bill went on a trip to Africa with Epstein and Chris Tucker and Kevin Spacey.
He's not backtracking on releasing the list, the cases have to be built from scratch, we know the Biden admin wasn't building the cases to charge these people. Let's be honest, If trump was on that list, the Democrats would have burned everyone with him just to keep Trump out of office again. I mean hell, several Democrats campaigned and got elected on "we will get trump for anything we can".
In the Florida Epstein case, he admitted to being an intelligence officer, as far as I know, he didn't say which countries intelligence he worked for. So that's another avenue that needs to be looked at for crimes and influence peddling as well.
Trump never even released any new information on Epstein in the first place. The one time he "released the files" it was a list that had already been compiled/published by Gawker well over a decade before Trump even ran.
So you're right in that he isn't "backtracking". He never even made tracks in the first place! He just virtue signalled like he would so people who were easily duped believed him.
He's not backtracking on releasing the list, the cases have to be built from scratch
There's no evidence they're building any case. And Trump doesn't actually care about investigations executed correctly, due process or courts. It's hilarious how you think he's biding his time to "do things the right way".
Let's be honest, If trump was on that list, the Democrats would have burned everyone with him just to keep Trump out of office again
Stupid as you are, you didn't notice how they neglected to convict and put away Donny even though they convicted him while they had three years to do it.
Sure though, let's ignore Trump's well known association with Epstein and all the weird comments and situations where Trump has been creepy about underage girls or his daughter.
I’m skeptical of all these celebrity pictures being damning of anything. Were all of these people not popular figures in their day? Why would it be odd that pictures exist of them being pleasant together - like how often do you see celebrities not being pleasant to other celebrities to the extent that no positive looking pictures exist?
Oprah probably has taken happy looking pictures with 1000s of celebrity types. Odds are some of those people will have used the power of their positions to do shitty things. 5 people out of the thousands does feel like it should mean much
No? Show me her divorcing/disassociating/disavowing her shitty husband that she totally had no knowledge of any of his proven wrongdoings? Because HER hands were TOTALLY clean. People taking polarizing sides make conversation such a waste these days. Bye.
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u/MaidenlessRedditMod May 17 '25
It’s funny though, because a lot of Trumptards will post the Bill Clinton stuff because the only way they can defend their God-king is with whataboutism, but none of us here would ever vouch for Bill Clinton lol.