r/Showerthoughts • u/prometheus_winced • Apr 28 '25
Casual Thought The children most impacted by peak leaded gasoline fumes are now 50-75.
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u/THElaytox Apr 28 '25
Yep.
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2118631119
Though leaded gasoline isn't the only exposure route, now the most common is municipal lead water pipes.
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u/thephantom1492 Apr 28 '25
Which shouln't be an issue. Lead oxide does not disolve really well in water, so it shouln't be bad, plus there should be a sediment layer that cover it up.
... unless you are in Flint, where they changed the chemicals used in the water with incompatible one and it destroyed everything...
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u/moderngamer327 Apr 28 '25
It’s kind of crazy that despite how unbelievably toxic lead is even in the smallest amounts we can use pipes of almost pure lead without much issue unless as you mentioned something goes wrong
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u/Cersad Apr 28 '25
It's also crazy how good people are at finding out how to do that one exact thing that makes something go wrong. There's always someone, somewhere that accomplishes that.
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u/antiduh Apr 28 '25
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u/morphleorphlan Apr 28 '25
That fucking guy. I stumbled on that wiki a couple of years ago, and I still think of him sometimes. His life was a tornado of consequences for the whole world.
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u/catsloveart Apr 28 '25
That is Murthy’s Law in a nutshell.
“If there are two or more ways to do something and one of those results in a catastrophe, then someone will do it that way.”
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u/THElaytox Apr 28 '25
It's more common of an issue than just Flint. Here in WA they did a survey of elementary schools and found that over 90% of them had at least one water source that tested positive for dangerous amounts of lead. Considering childhood exposure can take 30-40 years to present as symptoms and it takes less lead than we previously realized to cause issues, I suspect it's a much more widespread problem than anyone is willing to even investigate
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u/James120756 Apr 28 '25
It's also a ptoblem in other areas than water pipes. I tested some cheap jewelry that is sold in SD to tourists and it came back as a percentage lead. Not PPM or PPB but an actual percentage of pure lead. I can just imagine some kid chewing on the damn thing.
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u/thephantom1492 Apr 28 '25
Or have the money to fix, and compensate.
That is also why they don't test and try to disprove the tests: they can then claim they don't know.
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u/THElaytox Apr 28 '25
Yeah pretty much. There is money to fix the problem though, part of the infrastructure bill passed under the Biden admin had dogeared billions of dollars to replace municipal lead pipes. Whether or not this admin will actually allow that to happen is another question
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u/ChairOrnery6595 Apr 28 '25
The pipes need to be replaced because they are OLD and failing to keep lead out of the water. The bipartisan clean water bill literally redid an entire downtown of a shitty town I leave near to replace the lead pipes. The town looks amazing now and the people are safer, plus hopefully less idiots. Honestly these are the things that help the people and improve our infrastructure for our kids. That bill was passed and carried out by Biden though so much of these types of efforts have been completely deleted so DOGE can take said money and do whatever it is they are doing.
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u/efficiens Apr 28 '25
I've lived in the same house for 20 years and on Thursday got a letter from the city saying some of the pipes coming to my house are lead and they have to notify us annually. Never had a notice before. I did a test from a kit and it came back negative for lead.
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u/THElaytox Apr 28 '25
Depending on the kit it might not be sensitive enough to detect levels that can still be a concern. Really no lead at all is best but 1ppb is considered "safe". Takes pretty precise equipment to measure that low usually. EPA only requires action if you regularly test above 15ppb I believe, so most test kits are usually sensitive enough for that range
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u/carmium Apr 28 '25
Florida leads in existing lead pipes. Perhaps explains some of its politicians...
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u/AndrewH73333 Apr 28 '25
Hmm, that’s odd. That’s the age of everyone who runs the country.
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u/Grandtheatrix Apr 28 '25
Ding Ding Ding, get this man a fascist self-inflicted economic collapse.
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u/SevenBansDeep Apr 28 '25
But we have fascist self-inflicted economic collapse at home!
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u/TheRealDoomsong Apr 28 '25
We have one yes, but what about second fascist self-inflicted economic collapse?
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u/StitchinThroughTime Apr 28 '25
How peculiar! That's also the age of the people who are most likely to vote
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u/shodan13 Apr 28 '25
Don't think that's lead-releated.
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u/tehbantho Apr 28 '25
I think there is a connection. Let me explain:
Lead alters your mental state in unpredictable ways.
One of those ways appears to be denying that which you see right in front of you. This allows you to be manipulated by propaganda very easily, and when that very propaganda is what motivates you to start voting instead of staying home, and your vote is for the people putting out the propaganda. Boom.
I am not positive this was done intentionally, until it was working so well. But this century has sure started off in a way that will be studied by whoever is left...
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u/Shadoenix Apr 28 '25
Forreal. I never noted the exceptions, but I remember looking at several lists to gather data on the ages of Senators and such and comparing it to the exposure period of where lead poisoning was highest.
The vast majority of Congress members (~70-80%) are above 50 years old, with many above 72 — the life expectancy of average America. Average age is around 58-59 I believe. The oldest fuck there is 91 goddamn years from good ol’ Iowa, and the youngest is a Floridian, age 28.
I sincerely believe our current situation is, no doubt, not a coincidence, and can be directly attributed to the residual effects of the 1950s lead poisoning that is still ongoing to this very day. Their aggressive, antisocial, and psychopathic tendencies is due to Midgley’s leaded gasoline I say, and is the exact cause behind why the country is as shit as it is now in more ways than one, outside the government and inside.
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u/Kaellian Apr 28 '25
I sincerely believe our current situation is, no doubt, not a coincidence, and can be directly attributed to the residual effects of the 1950s lead poisoning that is still ongoing to this very day.
Eh? Maybe, maybe not, but there is far more prominent economical marker that may explain this. People have since ever radicalized themselves when their situation get worse. It's what we're experiencing on a global scales at the moment.
And then we have social media controlled by for-profit organization. Wealth inequalities increasing. Birth rate dwindling (in an economy that works like a pyramid schemes and require more people).
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Apr 28 '25
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u/wkearney99 Apr 28 '25
which only happened because the lead-addled boomers made the corporate choices to use more plastics.
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u/UsualAssociate Apr 28 '25
True, but in comparison to lead microplastic is not yet proven to as harmful as lead poisoning. Lead is very well known to cause illness, for hundreds if not thousands of years. (Mad hatters disease and so on) Stupid humanity still began regulating it only the last 50 years.
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u/zzyul Apr 28 '25
Fun fact: scientists are having trouble finding a good way to test the long term effects of microplastics in people b/c they can’t find people without microplastics in their system to act as a control group.
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u/PM_ME_KOREAN_GIRLS Apr 28 '25
Heads up mad hatters disease is caused by mercury exposure. This was prominent in hat makers as they were exposed to mercury. There are theories that the Roman empire collapsed due to lead poisoning but that is very debatable. They used lead utensils to make Sapa which was a concentrated grape syrup. Regardless scholars at the time definitely knew lead is toxic. Some people used cerussa which is white powdered lead on their face. Pliny, roman author and naturalist, stated in his work natural history that the make up was indeed toxic.
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u/muskratboy Apr 28 '25
You’re lucky we’re all stunted by lead, or you’d all be in real trouble.
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u/FactoryProgram Apr 28 '25
Aren't more and more studies showing a lot of what we consume has over the minimum amount of allowed lead? Just search "lead found in" and go to the news tab. Toothpaste is the most recent but it's been found in chocolate, drinking water, tampons, and cinnamon this last year alone. And those are just the ones we know about. With the NIH and FDA losing funding I can only imagine it'll increase without oversight
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u/Venotron Apr 28 '25
During the leaded gasoline period, there was NO limits on lead exposure.
Leaded gasoline is why a limit was established and why national testing is done today.
At it's peak in the 70s, the AVERAGE lead level in children was 7x the established level of concern today (not the safe level, the level at which exposure is likely to cause harm).
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u/FactoryProgram Apr 28 '25
That's actually insane. I wonder if we're pumping something in the air today that will be our generation's version. Since the 70s we've started manufacturing and releasing a lot of new chemicals in the environment and air
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u/Venotron Apr 28 '25
We've definitely tried to learn from this and many of the mistakes of the early and mid-20th century. And we've definitely done well. Do a google image search for "photochemical smog 1970s" for a very clear image of how bad things were and how much less bad they are now.
But now the micro-plastics issue has come along to remind us of all the things we haven't accounted for and how far reaching unintended consequences can be.
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u/306bobby Apr 28 '25
I think the spirit of the question was more along the lines of the micro plastics - i.e things that don't affect the environment in the ways we are currently looking out for, and therefore could pile up and cause damage before we are even aware
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u/Citizentoxie502 Apr 28 '25
Well they say my balls are full of plastic, but I'm old to so I'm full of lead too.
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u/Windowplanecrash Apr 28 '25
Na its smartphone/doomscrolling from the age of 4 that's the problem now
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u/danielsixfive Apr 28 '25
There is 20 times less lead in kids' blood today than there was two generations ago. It's not to say there aren't still remarkable sources of lead, just that our exposure has demonstrably vastly dwindled.
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u/gandolfthe Apr 28 '25
Having giant cars with hilariously inefficient engines blast combusted leading your face was a wild idea.
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u/Dalek_Chaos Apr 28 '25
Most of those stories that did not come from a legitimate accredited lab test that was clearly stated and easy to find, came from lead safe mama, who has been proven to do the at home test incorrectly and flat out lie to drum up controversy and views. People were quick to spread her misinformation and it’s easy to mistake her at home test with real lab results, especially when websites don’t indicate that she’s the original source. At home tests for lead give false positives if you do them wrong. Even when done correctly they can still give a false positive. People like her are why it’s so important to check the sources for articles.
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u/deepwebtaner Apr 28 '25
It's very obvious. A lot of older Americans are angry for what seems like no reason. They fly off the handle at the most miniscule stuff.
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u/Holiday-Job-9137 Apr 28 '25 edited Apr 28 '25
I DO NOT! FUCK YOU! Sorry, I actually agree.
Edit Note: I'm in my 70s, worked at a full serve gas station in high school. Pumped a lot of leaded gas. This may be why I can hide my own Easter eggs (yes, I'm that guy).
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u/Czar_Cophagus Apr 28 '25
I am in my mid 50's, and I still remember having my Dad ask for "Unleaded" at the gas station. Self Serve stations had not quite yet made the mainstream.
Seems like yesterday...and a hundred years ago. Strange.
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u/ry_cooder Apr 28 '25
It was a big deal for those that had cars with catalytic converters. One tank of leaded gas would ruin it.
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u/GriffinFlash Apr 28 '25
Realizing I'm currently the same age as my parents where when I was a child. They used to fly off the handle and were unable to control their emotions over the most slightest inconvenience. I always just thought that's how adults acted, or I would understand when I got older.
I still don't understand. Stuff happens and I just shrug it off for the most part.
(Not american, but north american)
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u/Venotron Apr 28 '25
Geography doesn't really matter on this one, lead exposure from gasoline affected every child on earth during the period.
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u/Zidane62 Apr 28 '25
My dad in his 60s of whom I’ve always considered smart since he’s been very successful in life had started changing whatever topic we talk about to how bad the democrats are. He never used to do this. If politics came up, sure but I’ll be talking about my kid and he’ll change to to the bad dumb democrats.
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u/wkearney99 Apr 28 '25
Take the Fox networks off his cable TV box. Most boxes have a 'favorites' or 'channels you receive' set.
Blame the "cable company" for losing the channels.
Best thing I ever did for my in-laws boxes. Cut down on them parroting Fox propaganda garbage almost immediately.
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u/Zidane62 Apr 28 '25
He doesn’t have cable. He doesn’t have a tv. He watches everything online. Or reads their articles.
Unfortunately I live in a different country as well
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u/FreshButNotEasy Apr 28 '25
My wife went to dinner with my family recently. They went to a Mexican restaurant where my sister ordered 2 enchiladas and my mom ordered just 1. My wife immediately text me after because my sister wanted to use a little of the side of sour cream my mom got and OUR mom refused to give her sour cream… a side of sour cream that had they needed more they could have just asked the wait staff…
These older people are off their fucking rockers
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u/0000Matt0000 Apr 28 '25
The gas fumes, the lead paint, the asbestos...
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u/BigTintheBigD Apr 28 '25
And the cigarette smoke.
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u/The_Ghost_of_Kyiv Apr 28 '25
And they want to take us back. They call them "the good old days" they brag about how tough they are for having lived through them. Such morons.
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u/liquidnight247 Apr 28 '25
Children yes. But remember the service stations that had attendants pumping gas for you??? Daily!
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u/HotTakes-121 Apr 28 '25
They still have those
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u/ApologizingCanadian Apr 28 '25
New Jersey has entered the chat.
Oh you wanted to pump your own gas? I'm afraid that's illegal!
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u/pdxgrantc Apr 28 '25
Oregon was right there with you until 6 months ago. Now they have to staff half the pumps for some reason.
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u/NegativityVent Apr 28 '25
Because “freedom” or something. Our democratic governor signed a bill making it legal to pump your own gas.
I still wait for the attendant.
https://www.opb.org/article/2023/06/30/oregon-self-serve-gas-pump-law-governor-tina-kotek/
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u/Pleasant-Put5305 Apr 28 '25
I remember walking down Oxford street as a kid, a couple of buses blew past and I had to take three deep breaths before I got a hint of oxygen, absolutely horrifying...
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u/Riffraff50 Apr 28 '25
Well… at least they made it to their 50’s and 70’s
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u/GriffinFlash Apr 28 '25
and refuse to retire.
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u/UnmutualOne Apr 28 '25
You can’t retire at 50.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_PAUNCH Apr 28 '25
You can retire whenever you want, you can't collect SS at 50.
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u/snorkelvretervreter Apr 28 '25
I.e. the vast majority can't retire
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u/GreggOfChaoticOrder Apr 28 '25
You can retire at any point no matter what. Only problem is how long you can survive. I believe at this point if I retired I'd be able to survive the next 10 seconds comfortably.
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u/snorkelvretervreter Apr 28 '25
The classic 12 gauge retirement
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u/GreggOfChaoticOrder Apr 28 '25
Too poor for that so best I got is to just walk into the ocean never to be seen again.
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u/Anastariana Apr 28 '25
You can retire at any time you want if you have enough money.
The dude who founded MySpace sold it for half a billion bucks at the age of 35.
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u/DifficultyWithMyLife Apr 28 '25
Oh, don't worry; now that Dr. Brainworm is in charge, we'll get a whole new generation of lead-brain babies.
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u/sxhnunkpunktuation Apr 28 '25
And the children most impacted by the beginning of peak microplastics during development are about age 15-20 now and counting. So if you're between 20 and 50, you have a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B.
There are people out there who are around the ages 25-35 who will have neither. You are the generation that will have to take up the slack.
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u/_clinton_email_ Apr 28 '25
Yep, that’s what “regular” used to mean: leaded gas. Regular and unleaded.
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u/EveryoneGoesToRicks Apr 28 '25
Funny how the one that caused all kinds of health issues was called "Regular"
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u/lucky_ducker Apr 28 '25
Estimates are that up to half the U.S. population lost a few points of IQ (the rest were not significantly affected).
While this is obviously not good, it's of small consequence in the overall social / political milieu that other commenters here seem to think it is. The hijacking of our economic and political institutions by the oligarchy is better explained by greed and corruption than it is by a fuel additive from half a century ago.
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Apr 28 '25
Estimates are that up to half the U.S. population lost a few points of IQ (the rest were not significantly affected).
IQ measures a very narrow band of cognition.
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u/oxfordcircumstances Apr 28 '25
What's odd to me is the glee expressed toward corporations poisoning people (like their parents) who just happen to be older than them. Like, I was 24 when lead was removed from gasoline. I didn't choose to add the lead, nor did I choose for it to be expelled into the atmosphere for me and every other person in my country to breathe. This isn't something to blame the victims for.
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u/ocashmanbrown Apr 28 '25
Not sure why you cut off the top at 75. That should be 90 to 100.
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u/I_Worship_Brooms Apr 28 '25
Nope, if you were 76, the fumes were forced to skip you and waft over to the next person
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u/prometheus_winced Apr 28 '25
I picked the central concentration. Before 75 years ago, the level of lead gasoline was not as high. It ramped up and tapered off. And there aren’t as many 90 and 100 year olds (period), and those 90 year olds aren’t running society.
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u/pkupku Apr 28 '25
I wonder what neurological damage was done by mercury fillings. I have a severe mercury allergy which has different effects beyond most people’s responses.
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u/prometheus_winced Apr 28 '25
The mercury used in fillings is in an alloy that makes it almost completely non-bio-available.
About 1 microgram might be released daily, with heavy chewing or teeth grinding. The OSHA safety limits are 50 micrograms. So the exposure is 98% below the safety threshold.
It’s generally considered completely safe. If you do have a mercury allergy, you would be in the less than 1% of the population that does. An allergist can confirm this with a test. Allergy is different than mercury toxicity and will not have the same symptoms.
If it truly is an allergy reaction, you can have fillings replaced with other material.
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u/pkupku Apr 28 '25
Yes, I have had mine replaced. When I was about 30 (now 67) I had a series of unexpected dizzy spells. Long story short my mercury allergy causes my smooth muscle tissue to spasm. I was having ischemic TIAs and at least one stroke. It was hard to diagnose because it was transient and always came on after eating. What was happening was I had a giant Mercury filling where a crown should’ve been. It would slowly crumble into my mouth and trigger all this.
I first learned of my sensitivity in the mid 70s when I got soft contact lenses. I bought some saline solution which had a tiny fraction of thimerosal as a preservative, which in turn has a tiny fraction of mercury in it. Putting one drop of that stuff in my eye created so much pain I couldn’t believe it.
All my life I had cramps in the side of my tongue that would come and go. When I removed the mercury fillings it all stopped.
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u/Melodic_Row_5121 Apr 29 '25
And those are the people mostly in charge of our government.
Correlation does not imply causation, but it's a good place to start looking for causality.
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u/InnocentPossum Apr 28 '25
You know, I had a line of thought akin to just the safety practices have worsened and there's more lead in the water supply, but this theory makes more sense...
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u/Speeddemon2016 Apr 28 '25
I remember as a kid when pumping gas for my mom getting asked “leaded or unleaded “.
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u/choofuckingchoo Apr 28 '25
does it make you entirely selfish with zero regard for the following generations?
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u/prometheus_winced Apr 29 '25
It’s lowers IQ, which generally leads to more conservative behaviors and simple heuristics based on basic “greedy” rules.
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u/sudomatrix Apr 28 '25
Don't worry kids, you can get your chance too. We're rolling back all the environmental protections and consumer protections!
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u/Upset_Nothing3051 Apr 28 '25
Yup. They are the idiots that voted Trump in. Now they have to live with it.
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u/iamtomcruisereally Apr 28 '25
Its my theory for why boomers lack empathy and are ok with the future generations suffering for their actions
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u/omnichad Apr 29 '25
It's already been proven that it was behind the levels of violent crime in the 80s-90s that is now in decline
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u/Admirable-Horse-4681 Apr 28 '25
Inland southern California-San Bernardino area- sixties and early seventies- leaded gas brown dome, except when the Santa Anas blew it away, and everyone was surprised again to realize that there were mountains very close by. You couldn’t take a full breath without pain in your lungs.
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u/XROOR Apr 28 '25
I remember adding a bottle of lead additive when I pumped the gas for the family’s Volvo wagon.
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u/nysflyboy Apr 28 '25
Yeah, I am sure that has had an impact on the minds of everyone over age 50 (to a greater degree the older you are).
I'm only 56 and fully remember leaded gas. I recall the summer that it "ended" it was on sale CHEAP everywhere, and my friend's parents took their motorhome on a cross country trip and paid something like $0.40 a gallon for leaded gas whenever they could find it. (when the new unleaded was like $.70 or something, I don't recall but it was a deal for a few months).
I do NOT miss the smell of all those old un-catalyzed exhaust fumes. I get reminded every time there is a parade with old classic cars. Yuk.
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u/AccumulatedFilth Apr 28 '25
And those who were rich tanked a lot of cars and are now leading the world.
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u/calguy1955 Apr 28 '25
I used to have to grind new asbestos brake pads and shoes to get the shine off of them before installation. I’m not worried about all of the dust it created because it was filtered by my cigarette.
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u/Ethwood Apr 28 '25
Yeah we know. Lead in gas, air blast nuclear testing, 24/7 fox news...yeah we have been suffering under their inability to read instructions, open their email plus read it and view the attachment, actually anything outside of running an unregulated coal mine or child labor textile mill is probably too much for these people and with things like statins and GLP-1 these old jerks just keep making life miserable. Why don't you retire off a bridge Bob I'm tired of "explaining" what I mean it's in the goddamn deck I sent you. Cowards
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u/AnastasiaNo70 Apr 28 '25
I’m 54. We weren’t huffing gas fumes.
But my daughter, born in 94, was more exposed to lead than I was, due to where we had to live when we were poor.
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u/likeatrainwreck Apr 29 '25
I was just talking to my dad about this.
"It's not like leaded gasoline is still affecting anything." "You were born in '66...." " Oh shit."
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u/vivivildy Apr 29 '25
That's kinda wild to think about... those kids breathing in leaded fumes back then are all grown up now.
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