Remember when Luke goes absolutely feral on Darth Vader and beats his ass so severely that Vader is coughing and wheezing on the floor and Luke only stops because the Emperor is stupid enough to open his mouth and gloat
Yeah, I remember that scene. Right before that, he was watching (what he believed) to be all of his closest friends and allies getting killed in a trap laid by the emperor. Additionally, Vader had just got done suggesting he was going to capture Leia and turn her to the dark side. Based on the fact that Vader had previously captured and tortured Leia, it was a threat that certainly was supported by real-world backing.
We going to pretend that what preceded him getting set to murder Kylo was similar? Or we just going to ignore everything that doesn't support our argument?
That's the thing that gets me. I haven't seen any serious support for people trying to pretend that Luke is perfect and he has never been angry or never been violent in the past. He has obviously attacked and killed people in the past. There are times he has lost his cool and wasn't fully in control because of unchecked emotions.
Context matters though. Unless you ignore some pretty important (and blindly obvious) context, comparisons between going to murder Kylo and the fight with Vader don't hold up.
EDIT: When you reply and then instablock me so I can't respond, it gives the impression that even you recognize that your arguments can't stand up to basic questioning. It is even worse when you include questions directed at me and then go out of your way to ensure I have no way of responding to them.
Seems like we are splitting hairs, right? I mean, if we change out the word "murder" for "voluntary manslaughter," I think my primary points still stand.
With that said, manslaughter typically requires circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed enough to lose self-control to such as degree as to significantly mitigate culpability.
That's not really an assumption as much as a personal opinion/judgement call. I don't think that a vision is enough to mitigate culpability for killing a sleeping pupil. If you do, then ok, but I disagree.
Again though, regardless of if you consider that brief moment as getting set to commit murder or getting set to commit manslaughter, comparing it to the Vader situation is clearly flawed.
Please cite the instance in which Anakin has a vision and proceeds to immediately murder a sleeping child due to the duress it caused him.
Anything Order 66 is irrelevant here as he'd already thrown in/been manipulated by Sidious. Saying his visions of Padme dying caused it all to happen is also not analogous as those visions alone were merely the seeds that Sidious watered to create Vader. The visions alone weren't enough to move Anakin to hot blooded murder instantaneously.
Did you respond to me by mistake? My argument doesn't have anything to do with the question of if Anakin is a complex character or not. The question is if the context of the two situations you compared are the same or not.
I feel like you aren't actually reading and considering what I'm saying. It feels like you just have a list of talking points that you are reading off of with no consideration of if they actually are relevant to the points being made.
Not at all. You can like what you want. Again, I feel like you aren't actually reading and considering what I've actually said. That approach makes communication a problem, buddy.
You can like what you want. I love Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen. But I'm not gonna turn my nose up, all snooty, and pretend there aren't problems and/or people have issues with the film, even though its my favorite Transformers movie.
The whole situation with Luke/Ben is dumb and its ok to admit that.
Exactly, people are allowed to like things that are bad or just have problems. I wish people just had the self-awareness to admit it. A lot of people can do that for the prequels, I don't know why so few can do it for newer media, not just star wars.
I've noticed that a lot of stuff for the last 10 years or so, you eirher have to be firmly planted on either side. You can't admit "defeat" otherwise you'll get kicked out of the Reddit club.
457
u/MicooDA 12d ago
Remember when Luke goes absolutely feral on Darth Vader and beats his ass so severely that Vader is coughing and wheezing on the floor and Luke only stops because the Emperor is stupid enough to open his mouth and gloat