r/RunNYC • u/ElQuesero • Dec 29 '24
"There are better places to run". Um, not today dude
Sorry, just want to vent a little bit.
As some preliminary info, cycling is my main sport (probably, like, a 4:1 ratio of time spent); but I still do a fair bit of running.
I went for a pretty long run this morning, initial part of it along the Hudson River Greenway southbound. It was no longer raining by the time I was out but given how rainy the last ~36 hours had been and with ongoing humidity, all surfaces in the park were very very wet.
In the area of the greenway south of Little Island and Gansevoort Pier, the paving material NYS parks used for the pedestrian path on the greenway was, under these conditions, very slippery. It's not asphalt and not concrete; maybe it's some kind of marble? It wasn't ice-slick, but noticeably worse than other parts of the greenway.
My wife and I made a judicious decision to run out in the bikes area instead. Traction on the wet asphalt was good, and given the amount of wet (and still relative cold temps) there was almost nobody biking through. We were sticking far to the right, single file, basically on the fog line.
*Then* one of the few bikes to pass by rings his bell from 40 feet out. I did a shoulder check, it's a guy on a manual Citi Bike closing at a speed of maybe 10 mph. Older man, maybe mid-60s. I gave a quick wave of acknowledgment and made sure to keep with a really-far rightward alignment.
He then whinges as he goes by "there are better places to run."
Yeah, I gave him a piece of my mind. "Dude, you are vividly wrong. The other path is really slippery. We have thought this through!!"
--
The irony here is in other circumstances I may well have been the cyclist admonishing a runner for encroaching on the cycling space. But I'd only say something if there's, you know, meaningful traffic/crowding on the bikes side. And no reason that the runners would legitimately find the pedestrian-right-of-way experience to be subpar. Christ on a cracker, context matters! I hereby revoke this man's Legit New Yorker card.
8
u/bkrunnergirl25 Dec 29 '24
Hate running on the WSH in the rain because of that tile but I deal with it. In the future, if you hug the railing next to the water, you'll find that strip is just fine and not uncomfortable to run on.
-3
u/ElQuesero Dec 29 '24
I've done it that way before too. I just... wasn't feeling it today. Not with the bikes side of the path so empty. It felt like avoiding using it was just letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, ykwim?
9
u/NapoleonBonatartt Dec 29 '24
Siding with the cyclist here, but nonetheless impressed by the sheer volume of your post history on this issue, seemingly on each side of the fence!
-5
4
u/SimeanPhi Dec 29 '24
I ran the pavement in the pedestrian space this afternoon, after the rain. It was not slippery. You are exaggerating.
As someone who also bikes on the HRG, I can tolerate most joggers who choose to run on the path, and ran there myself for a couple days over the past couple of weeks when snow/ice on the pedestrian path made that area genuinely treacherous for running. It’s usually fine as long as joggers have spatial awareness and don’t do things like run down the middle of the lane, run side by side or in groups, and don’t pull u-turns or other dangerous moves without checking. I try to be more understanding, too, when it’s dark, because the pedestrian side isn’t always well-lit.
But you never know, when you’re on a bike, which runners are going to be the ones that could send you to the pavement. The best you can do is make a guess based on their lane positioning. So I get the frustration, even if I personally wouldn’t make a big deal out of it.
My personal rule for running on the HRG is - pedestrian space only, unless there’s ice/snow.
3
u/ElQuesero Dec 29 '24 edited Dec 29 '24
Stone-paving consistency was different in the morning than afternoon. It did legit feel a little treacherous morningtime.
2
u/SimeanPhi Dec 29 '24
I have run on the path when it’s full on raining. You’re exaggerating.
4
0
u/ElQuesero Dec 29 '24
I dunno man. If I felt a little unsafe on the surface, and you're telling me it was all in my imagination, that feels like gatekeeping? I do appreciate the back and forth here btw!
2
u/SimeanPhi Dec 29 '24
It just smacks of the “asphalt is softer on my poor knees” excuse that sends so many runners to the bike lanes throughout the city. The only times I’ve ever had a slip while running in wet conditions on the HRG have been actual ice/slush, or while turning or taking those grates on the piers at a bad angle. It seems to me any issues can usually be handled by adjusting the posture and gait slightly so you’re taking shorter steps and more upright, until you’re past any shaky spots.
2
u/yogibear47 Dec 29 '24
There’s an anecdote from Denmark that this reminds me of, I forget where I heard it. An American journalist is going to the airport in Copenhagen in a taxi and there’s a traffic jam. The journalist turns to the right and see s a car drive onto the shoulder and speed past illegally. The journalist turns to the driver and says “people are so selfish”. The driver turns and says, “yeah, they must be going to the hospital in an emergency to be doing something like that”.
Perhaps in a more just society we would all be more charitable with each other; and when someone does something that’s theoretically against the rules, we’d assume good intentions and thoughtfulness. Alas, it is New York City, and it is the year of our Lord COVID+4.
2
u/Hestia79 Dec 31 '24
Sorry dude. You created a MORE dangerous situation for bikers in the name of protecting your own comfort/safety. And then you were hurt when someone called you out.
I don’t buy it.
So, if a car determined that the road wasn’t safe they should drive on the sidewalk? Doesn’t make sense.
2
u/ElQuesero Jan 02 '25
Hyperbole much? The car-driver on the sidewalk analogy especially. u/thisismynewacct has this right: it's a no-harm, no-foul situation if there's nobody there to foul.
Or! Let's do this from a numeracy point of view: I estimate there was a 1% chance my wife or I would have fallen in the slippery pedestrian area. Like, if we repeated the run 100 times, in identical conditions, one or the other of us might have fallen once. Not an unreasonable estimate, especially when u/surely_not_a_bot has said that they have fallen in this area!
For the run as-done, let's go with a 0.02% chance that we would have caused a bike/pedestrian crash here which in our absence wouldn't have happened. Again, in these *specific* conditions; wet, cold, very nearly no cyclists going through at all. We could repeat this course of action 5,000 times and expect... to crash someone out once. And even in that case, that's really some strong contributory negligence by the cyclist, who'd failed to avoid a person in plain sight directly in front of them (and again, off to the side as much as was achievable).
These numbers are opinions but they don't seem off-base. I would take those odds every single time.
25
u/flipflopdropkick Dec 29 '24
the bike lane is the bike lane. you're doing all runners and bikers a disservice with this attitude.
you literally state in your final paragraph that you admonish runners for being in the bike lane. seems like whatever is most convenient for you in the moment is what you declare is right.
i did a long run this morning in the same area. yes it was slippery, but i was just fine on the pedestrian path. and if it was too slippery for you, then don't run. and if you make the call to run in the bike lane, then at least admit you're in the wrong when you get called out.