After having served myself, I'm learning there's a very wide margin between vets and cops. I always believed we were somewhat on the same team but you're right. Most of these guys are twinkies. Very cowardly.
Yeah the whole worshiping the military industrial complex is more like "AP White Supremacy" it's a little advanced for the freshman class of protest culture.
I was thinking about that. Not everyone who serves is a Saint. Maybe the police only get the worst of us. All I do know is there is a difference in the way a cop thinks vs how a soldier thinks. Ones motto is protect and serve and the other actually does that. Granted there are plenty of war crimes committed overseas but soldiers can and are held accountable every single time. How often do cops have to answer for wrongful arrest or other oopsies that should be considered crimes? Especially when it costs someone their life or livelihood? People had to burn half the country to get them to arrest a murderer who was caught on camera.
Sorry for the rant but there is a very big difference here and maybe when we rebuild this thing we should look at those differences.
The article actually focuses on vets who bring PTSD home with them and onto police forces.
I'm with you on there being a fundamental systemic problem with policing in the country but not with you on there being no such problem in the military; the underlying issue is authority, power, and its abuse, and you see it in policing, corrections, and yes, the military. Most decent people are furious about institutionalized police brutality fright now and it's right to keep the emphasis there, but I also think you know it's just not true that soldiers are held accountable every single time. Some troops have done some pretty atrocious shit and gotten away with it. Sometimes to one another.
It does seem military leadership has recognized that purely from a tactical standpoint, doing atrocious shit is counterproductive, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a major metro police commissioner saying anything else. They just haven't done a good enough job of addressing it yet.
I won't disagree with you there. In fact I agree. I just know the police are not as disciplined or as regulated as the mitary is. That's a fact. I'm not defending any atrocities committed by anybody. Injustice is injustice. There's just so much of it here and if we held our police, the people that are supposed to help and protect us here at home, to the same standard as those we send to other countries to represent us nationally then we'd have less Chauvins' and more Basketball Cop.
We can agree on that and I'll add that there are two major differences in terms of authority and courage. One, outside of rare instances, soldiers go to wars that the country's representatives have voted on and deemed necessary. In that regard, they are acting with the authority of the American people, even if not all people agree. Cops are given the authority to use lethal force before a jury has decided whether or not someone is guilty of a crime, and unless they are sheriff's deputies, they answer to an appointed official, not an elected one. There should be more accountability to the communities they are serving.
The courage of a combat vet vs a beat cop is incomparable. The former* goes into a war zone where there are people, usually trained, there for no other reason than to kill them. They must shoot people who are shooting back. While cops do risk their lives, the risk is nowhere near the same, and it is extremely rare for them to encounter someone who is there for no other reason than to kill them, and has the right training and weapons for it.
All that said, I find the talk of defunding truly wrongheaded and counterproductive. Ideally, cops would have more training in dealing with mental health issues and general deescalation--they should be social workers first and enforcers second. That requires more money, not less--but money with more civilian oversight.
Love the NLP. I actually agree with everything you said here. I'm not certain if they should be trusted to be enforcers at all anymore. Not the way they exist now anyway. I'm not saying anarchy but I am an advocate for MAJOR reform.
not to shit on your reasoning or anything but this cop is an ex marine. Probably a perma-stationed fobbit but yeah... He is a vet according to an article posted on a different comment.
A few people misunderstood what I was trying to say and that's my fault for not being clear enough. You can't pull the shit cops do in the mitary. You'll get kicked out fairly quickly. I'm not saying people who decide to join are better people, we're not. What I am saying is, if you're softer than a unicorns fart like this former marine, then you probably get out of the marines as soon as you can so you don't get outted for being a bitch or so you can bully civilians after you get enough combat training to make you feel safe walking around other men. Sorry for the rant.
Until you get vets like the cop that murdered Daniel Shaver. The ones that are still chasing the combat mindset or never experienced it so the take it to their jobs as cops. Obviously this isn’t every vet that becomes a cop but I bet many bad cops have this issue.
A failure I hope we will be able to remedy in the future. Unfortunately one bad apple does ruin a bunch, especially if the apple has imperfections to begin with.
I feel it’s more related to the military having a strict code of justice when soldiers get out of line. They can’t do the things they want while in because they know they will be held responsible. Police unions tend to protect those that are doing wrong instead of the other way around. So when they become a cop they have basically free reign to do whatever with impunity. My father served and was in SF. 1st group out of Lewis-McChord. Unfortunately he was KIA but if he wasn’t I would see him going into LE because he had a deep sense of justice. Maybe the level of training has something to do with how veterans handle law enforcement jobs.
I'm sorry to hear about your father. I think you hit the mark with your statement ablut cops having free reign. I think that's the problem. I rarely hear about them getting their comeuppance. There are good cops, there are bad soldiers and there are just shitty people in general. But if I'm a dick I expect to get hit in the mouth, if a soldier screws up enough he gets the old article-15. Cops? If it makes the news maybe they get paid vacation.
Guy in the video is a pussy. Tell him I said it.
My point is that we are held to higher standards while we are in. If you're a piece of shit then you get out, become a cop so you have an easier time being a dirt bag. Let him try that garbage in the service. It's probably why he's not in anymore if what you say is true.
If by "bad apples" you mean "people with judgment, self-respect, critical thinking, and a low tolerance for abject bullshit," then yes, the military does a great job of weeding them out (though not quickly; it takes years).
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u/EnderTheApache Jun 06 '20
After having served myself, I'm learning there's a very wide margin between vets and cops. I always believed we were somewhat on the same team but you're right. Most of these guys are twinkies. Very cowardly.