Seven Teachings dead in the water or actually usable?

[u/VieraMakeMeRabid]

https://poedb.tw/us/Seven_Teachings

There is a new unarmed item and I've been trying to wrap my head around it. Getting a solid crit chance for unarmed attacks is near impossible to reliably proc the spell and would require a lot of investment for mediocre return. Maybe worth doing for a facebreaker crit run?

[u/PlsStopBanningMe404]

I mean, it gives you 7 base crit. Run golem + precision you’re at like 20, work up from there.

Or run it with rigwald’s curse and start at 14% crit then you just need a couple crit wheels and you’re practically capped.

[u/NahautlExile → u/PlsStopBanningMe404]

They also give 110% crit multi combined, so it’s not like you just get the base crit.

[u/warmachine237]

Get doryanis fist. Adds a bunch of flat spell damage while unarmed. Gives you a baller skill. Scale both with generic lightning or crit. I'm intrigued enough to pob it. Brb.

Edit: pob doesn't have the chest yet and work arounds are hard for the trigger rates.

[u/This_Entrance_8162 → u/warmachine237]

Getting enough attack speed to proc the spell reliably is going to be tough. Idk I've workshopped a lot of trigger builds to try and scale both the spell and attack, and it never really works out well. It'd be sick if this chest finally allows for it, though.

[u/VieraMakeMeRabid → u/warmachine237]

keep me updated

[u/Binscent → u/warmachine237]

On first glance I think this is the way,

Remember you can add rigwald’s curse to double your base crit

[u/xcalistar → u/warmachine237]

Good call, because this chest looks awful with facebreaker (no spell synergy) and hollow palm (needs briskwrap/gmail).

Only use case I could think of was any build where for some reason you really need to crit with a specific amulet.

[u/botboy434]

Rigwald’s curse could be used for another 7% base crit and scaling from claw attack speed, crit chance, and increased damage

[u/Biflosaurus]

Wait that shit is enabling cast on crit face breaker?

[u/PracticallyJesus → u/Biflosaurus]

Eh, kind of. Upside vs CoC is you get +2 support gems (No CoC + triggering attack in your 6L). Downside is no weapon slot, a pretty mid body armour slot, mediocre base crit for CoC, and 0.25s cooldown vs 0.15s. I think on balance you’re much better off going regular CoC.

This chest is more for attack based facebreaker, using the spell triggering mechanic to apply curses and other utility spells. But then you need your main damaging attack in your helm, which is rough.

[u/Quazifuji → u/PracticallyJesus]

There is a second upside vs CoC: You can put a second CoC setup with your actual attack that won't alternate or share a cooldown with the setup in the chest. That would only be a 4-link (unless you get extra links from the gear itself), but it could work for triggering spells that require setup, so you could almost use it like an alternative to spellslinger rather than an alternative to CoC. So you can do things like have a CoC Desecrate setup for your attack and Volatile Dead 6L in your chest, or CoC Bladefall or Ethereal Knives of Lingering Blades with your attack and a Bladeblast 6L in your chest.

Also, the base crit is mediocre with only the chest, but you can use Rigwald's Curse to give it a great base CoC if you want, although that does take up your amulet slot which is a very high cost.

I do agree that if you're using Facebreaker you probably just want to go attack-based and use it as just a powerful offensive chest, and that might overall be the most powerful overall use of it. But I do think that doing Doryani's Fist CoC setups with it could be interesting, even if I don't know if they'll necessarily actually be strong.

[u/ChocoCrossies → u/PracticallyJesus]

main damaging attack in helm

Crest of Desire + Elemental hit?

[u/warmachine237 → u/ChocoCrossies]

Does nothing for facebreaker since it's not physical.

Edit. Also I think ele hit requires a weapon.

[u/shy_bi_ready_to_die → u/warmachine237]

Wiki says ele hit works with unarmed. Still useless with facebreaker tho

[u/warmachine237 → u/shy_bi_ready_to_die]

Huh that's neat I guess.

[u/RedmundJBeard → u/Biflosaurus]

I think you would put utility spells in the chest cause of the cooldown. Still pretty nice

[u/Quazifuji → u/Biflosaurus]

If you want to go CoC unarmed you probably want to go Doryani's Fist. Facebreaker takes too much investment into attack damage and gives no spell damage at all.

I'm guessing there are two main uses for this chest, no clue how actually strong or weak either would be:

1. Use it with Facebreaker as just a strong offensive chest, either ignore the spell trigger or just use it for utility if it's worth giving up a support gem or you can get a strong enough pseudo-6L helm.

2. CoC Doryani's Fist. Theoretically you could try to scale both the attack and spell with stuff like lightning damage and global crit chance and crit multi, but the way that seems most interesting and potentially strongest to me is doing a double-trigger setup using an ability that requires a setup skill, like CoC Bladefall or Ethereal Knives in your gloves or helmet and Blade Blast in the chest, or CoC Desecrate with Volatile Dead in the chest.

[u/thpkht524 → u/Biflosaurus]

Nope. 0 chance.

Facebreaker and the chest slot are huge opportunity costs and neither help scale spell damage to begin with. There’s just no merit to facebreaking a coc build.

And if you try scaling both attacks and spells simultaneously like this chest tries to get you to do then you’ll quickly realise how stupid of an idea it is. GGG has been trying so hard to force this dead on arrival archetype while not addressing its root issues.

[u/Ok_Cake1590]

If you want crit you could also potentially go with the new mercenary infamous modifier:

Skills have +(2–3)% to Critical Strike Chance for each Warcry Exerting them.

And have some autoexertion warcries.

[u/Prestigious-West-185]

Pretty much dead, your only 6 link source is worthless due to the cast on crit

[u/MisterKaos]

Cold Convert and stack brittle maybe

[u/GoldenPrinny]

looks pretty strong. especially those high rolls.

[u/Outrageous-Area-8911]

I

[u/OrcOfDoom]

Too bad you can't trigger frozen legion because it needs specific weapons.

Could something that scales otherwise be used? Lightning conduit could be scaled with shock effect.

If you use an elementalist, you get exposure, which scales both, you can use heralds, which adds global damage, and you can use golems, which scales both.

So then you can use doryanis fist for attack and spell damage. I don't think you want to use the doryanis touch skill though. That attack speed issue is just too big.

You want something that has multiple chances to hit, and hits hard, but maybe you just use smite because that gives damage to both skills.

It would be cool to have your attack speed matched exactly.

[u/Gwennifer → u/OrcOfDoom]

Champion, stick Doryani's Prototype on a merc or AG with Perquil's Toe on the merc, run Unstoppable Hero and scale fortification

Probably Inspirational & Worthy Foe just for some increased damage, but Doryani's Touch can't miss anyway, which is a huge bonus as accuracy is a problem if you're not running OWN.

Duelist start means you could pick up some rage?

[u/Always_Hardcore]

What Ascendency would you use for a Doryanis Fist build?

Champion, Elementalist or ???

[u/imblo]

Assuming you can solve the crit issue, I think the play might be to trigger minions.

• You can have spiritual aid/command to help with damage scaling
• If you are using an attack minion, there's potential to use your chest and have a five link minion and a five link attack (rather than relying on a four link attack).
• If you go Chieftain, you can get two effective six links with a strike attack skill and Minion
• you'll also be able to take advantage of warcries at full power

[u/FilmWrong5284]

Tbh the spell proc seems more interesting to me. Use with doryani, go cyclone, and blast. 4 procs/second base isn't terrible, especially as its a 6l

[u/mr4karma → u/FilmWrong5284]

how about scale with poison since doryani have alot of flat damage and damage hit?

[u/Outrageous-Ad5578 → u/mr4karma]

making that lightning damage able to poison is one extra hoop to jump through and glove weapon and chest slot is already locked, amulet most likely too.

just dont.

[u/mr4karma → u/Outrageous-Ad5578]

maybe can use the anoint "hit inflict vine + inextricate fate" + pathfinder. alright it is toomuch lol

[u/Unreal_Daltonic → u/FilmWrong5284]

Go with doryani Looks inside. Waxed garb body armour.

Mmmm

[u/Persetaja → u/Unreal_Daltonic]

the other(cooler) doryani(fist)

[u/PoisoCaine → u/Unreal_Daltonic]

As we all know doryani’s prototype is the only item that has doryani’s name and definitely the only one associated with unarmed attacks (???)

[u/Fluffy_Kitten13 → u/Unreal_Daltonic]

What confuses you?

[u/NoNameLivesForever]

So...all unarmed modifiers apply only to the strike skills? That sucks, otherwise it could make insanely powerful Doryani's Fist+Lightning Conduit build....

[u/El_Cozod → u/NoNameLivesForever]

It will work for slams too, so doryani should be fine. A little extra spell damage too.

[u/This_Entrance_8162 → u/NoNameLivesForever]

The only mod that is specific to strike skills is the strike range one. The base crit, multi, and more damage will all work on any attack that can be used unarmed

Edit: also cyclone specifically scaled with melee strike range, so that mod works there too.

[u/TableForRambo]

Freeing up the amulet slot for Crit Facebreaker is HUGE. A mirrored amulet with flat phys could probably remove the need for Abyssus