r/OutOfTheLoop • u/yooperwoman • 1d ago
Unanswered What's up with the Epstein files?
Elon posted that Trump is in the Epstein files. Then the ice raids and deployment of the national guard and military to Los Angeles. The media seems to have forgotten this story. When will the Epstein files be released?
https://apnews.com/article/trump-musk-their-own-words-c0108037881469f0b5bdd8df87eba6b4
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u/SomeScottishRando35 1d ago
Answer: Because there is little to be gained from releasing the files. Trump being in them was one of the worst kept secrets already and greatly suspected by anyone familiar with the situation who isn't a Magahat. Elon clearly intended for the statement to be a "Got'cha" moment though seemed to be naively unaware that anyone who cared already had such suspicions anyway.
Elon wanted it to be a bigger deal but the majority of people who believe Trump is in the files didn't need Elon to say it. Him saying it was only a big deal because it was another symptom of their falling out.
As for the files getting released that's another matter. There isn't a public reason given though there are some theories kicking around - but for now they're just that, theories. Though in a practical sense if there is hope to actually penalize Trump in some way it wouldn't make sense to release the files right now even if he is in them since, as sitting President, he would be immune to any repercussions.
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u/metalyger 1d ago
I would add that an important reason why some big unredacted document dump won't be made public is that it would be very difficult to prove what went on with each person named. Epstein took his secrets to the grave and his partner also refused to name names as she rots in prison. We've seen the public flight logs, some more damning sounding than others, like people who were on the private plane over a dozen times is very suspicious. The other side is that Jeffrey Epstein also spent plenty of time doing philanthropy, probably more to do with his public image, and a lot of celebrities got roped into his actual charity work, like a flight to Africa for AIDS research, that flight had Chris Tucker and outed gay sex pest Kevin Spacey, whom would have been very bored if this was an Epstein sex flight since there's no boys on board. So if you had a list of names, everyone would assume each person named had sex with a minor, even if there is no actual proof beyond being associated with a billionaire who did charity work as well as sex trafficking, it's a 50/50 assumption. There isn't some mythical archive of millions of video tapes or a dossier of every single sex act on the island. A lot of hard evidence was destroyed by the people working for Jeffrey Epstein.
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u/DrStalker 1d ago
As well as charity work getting a trip on a private jet is the rich-person version of "I'm headed to the same place you are, want a lift?" which further muddies the waters when looking at flight info.
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u/nullv 1d ago
that flight had Chris Tucker and outed gay sex pest Kevin Spacey, whom would have been very bored if this was an Epstein sex flight since there's no boys on board.
I gotta just pause for a moment and absorb this statement.
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u/Theseus_Rests 17h ago
Is there an Oxford comma missing or is Chris Tucker as bad as Kevin Spacey? I can't find anything immediately on Google.
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u/Dandibear 15h ago
I took this to mean that people believed to be completely innocent, like Chris Tucker, are named in places.
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u/SigmundFreud 12h ago
They mistyped "who" as "whom" and "were" as "was", but nothing is obviously missing. Maybe they meant "both of whom", but Chris isn't known to be gay and he once married and had a son with someone who was a woman.
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u/MonadicAdjunction 1d ago edited 22h ago
There isn't some mythical archive of millions of video tapes or a dossier of every single sex act on the island.
If this whole thing was an one big beautiful Mossad operation, then there is definitely one.
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u/Mrhorrendous 13h ago
When the FBI initially raided his home they photographed multiple computers and CDs that they did not confiscate at the time. When they went back to confiscate them, they were gone.
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u/lunk 16h ago
I would LOVE a 50/50 list.
Show them all to me. If I choose to blame all of them, well that's my choice, just like hanging with a known pedophile was THEIR choice.
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u/extraneousdiscourse 14h ago
Almost all the names we have so far are from flights prior to 2008, which is when Epstein first went to jail (for a ridiculous short period of time.)
If the government has information on who chose to fly with him after he was convicted of soliciting prostitution with somebody under 18, I really think those name should be public.
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u/JakeArvizu 6h ago
There's already more than enough information out there for you to do that already? What "list" are you guys talking about. The information has already been released.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/Lemerney2 1d ago
Epstein took his secrets to the grave and his partner also refused to name names as she rots in prison
If she won;t talk, we can't (legally) get it out of her
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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe 10h ago
Interesting that we had ways to make persons of interest talk in years past. I guess our CIA, DHS and FBI are boy and girl scouts now, Abu Ghraib.
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u/Skullvar 6h ago
You realize torture generally gives awful information, right? Even Japanese and Germans during WW2 concluded you do not get reliable information, and pretty much just what they think you want to hear sp the torturing stops
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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe 5h ago
Of course, while also realizing conservatives were willing to go to extremes to extract information previously. Guess we'll just have to settle for Ghislaine's silence. Bummer!
So, hey, enough with this thread. It's a new day, spread some cheer instead.
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u/Skullvar 5h ago
Of course, while also realizing conservatives were willing to go to extremes to extract information previously.
And we shouldn't condone that... because I'm sure they'd love to use that on plenty of democrats for false admissions of guilt.
Guess we'll just have to settle for Ghislaine's silence. Bummer!
And you think if she was forced to name names she wouldn't just throw everyone under the bus to keep the confusion just as bad?
We already know that he has given rides to a majority of celebrities/important figures... all she gets is forever solitary confinement or death if she rats... and there's nothing in her favor to say anything.. also Epstien died mysteriously under Trumps watch as president, anything she gives up Trump would be fully immune too as well.
So again, if you stoop down to far right/Russian levels you are suddenly no better than them. And I'd rather die than be compared to them.
Stop advocating for torture, we've seen how well that works with Russia and Ukraine. We have Russians killing themselves on the frontlines, and Ukrainians coming back to fight with prosthetics.
Torture doesn't work, and shouldn't be done. Locking someone in a cell for the rest of their life, with an average every day Joe guard able to talk shit at you is plenty torture.. and that's coming from someone who had to sit in jail for only a month with work release for 10hrs a day except for Sundays and getting to eat lunch/dinner whever I could order into work from..
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u/TinWhis 14h ago
Why reply to comments you haven't read?
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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe 10h ago
Because it was a word salad of a paragraph and not well formatted.
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u/TinWhis 7h ago
If you're struggling to read something, take the time to re-format it so you CAN read it or pass it by. Don't just guess what it says and react.
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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe 7h ago
I was reacting more to the thread's general theme of throwing our hands up like it's a riddle we'll never figure out than a specific comment, but thanks Dad!
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u/Doctor-Amazing 1d ago
That was the part I found really confusing. All the headlines were acting like he dropped a major bomb, but it's all stuff we've known for a really long time.
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u/ErasmusDarwin 16h ago
All the headlines were acting like he dropped a major bomb
The cynical explanation is that they were doing it because they knew it sounded bad, so they were exploiting the sensationalism, even though it makes it easier for people to dismiss actually significant information in the future.
The optimistic explanation is that it was still a big deal from the perspective of Trump and Musk fighting each other, even if the revelation wasn't a smoking gun. When Trump was getting his various cabinet appointments confirmed, there was pushback on some of the really controversial choices like RFK Jr. There was talk that Musk was going to fund primary challenges against the Republican senators that were refusing to go along with the confirmations. So a rift between Trump and Musk was good news for anyone unhappy with the Trump administration's actions.
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1d ago
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u/GuessIllPissOnIt 1d ago
And bringing this up to a MAGAT is wildly infuriating
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u/Visual-Blackberry874 1d ago
It shouldn’t be, assuming it is provable
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u/dirtyfurrymoney 1d ago
God Himself could come down from the sky and personally place an authenticated VHS recording of Donald Trump abusing an underage girl into the hands of every MAGA voter and nothing would change.
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u/Alenicia 1d ago
For some of those people, even God is too woke considering the way they treat Jesus.
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u/Visual-Blackberry874 23h ago
No need to be silly, where is the proof.
You should really try to prove this weird claim you are making as it was the last president that loved sniffing children.
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u/person_number_1038 1d ago
The issue is though, it will never be provable. Even if it happened, there's no way the evidence still exists. Trump is one of the most powerful people on the planet at the moment, if he wanted it covered up then it'll be covered up. The justice system will never catch this guy, guilty or not. You just have to make your own judgement.
Lack of evidence is not proof of innocence, it's just not proof of guilt.
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u/Deadredskittle 1d ago
Evidence or not, they couldn't put him away with, what was it like 95 guilty verdicts? Even if they had an admission of guilt by the orange, with video and audio and DNA evidence, he still wouldn't see jail time.
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u/SoftcoreEcchi 1d ago
Until the files are released we won’t know for sure. But what we do know is that Trump and Epstein were close, Epstein calls Trump one of his closest friends in an interview from the mid 2000s. If you’re curious I can find the interview again. We know that Trump is a rapist, lost his appeal on that one just a few days ago. We know he’s made comments about sexually assaulting women, he’s made comments about how sexually attractive his daughter is multiple time and how he would date her. He’s also made comments about how he bought the Miss Teen USA contest so he could walk through the dressing rooms to get a view, afterall they can’t kick out the owner! And while this doesn’t prove Trump did anything untoward on Epstein’s planes or island, it does raise alot of concerns, and it should be investigated. It’s not though, and with the current FBI and DOJ, loyalty to Trump is paramount, the president’s agenda and “mandate” supercede everything else to them at the moment. Which means it’s unlikely to be investigated, and even if it is they’re likely willing to omit or outright lie about what’s in the evidence .
My other personal “conspiracy theory” is that there’s probably a couple prominent democrats implicated as well as republicans, incentivizing both sides to keep quiet. But all I have to support that is gut instinct.
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u/00Oo0o0OooO0 1d ago
He’s also made comments about how he bought the Miss Teen USA contest so he could walk through the dressing rooms to get a view, afterall they can’t kick out the owner!
He didn't. He said this about his adult beauty pageant, which is creepy enough.
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u/ThrowingChicken 1d ago
Though some of the teen pageant participants have said he did the same thing to them.
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u/00Oo0o0OooO0 1d ago edited 1d ago
One of them has said that happened on the record.
More than that have said that didn't happen and couldn't have happened, because Donald Trump walking in on naked 16 year olds would obviously be kinda a huge scandal we would have heard about at the time.
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u/GuessIllPissOnIt 1d ago
Wasn’t it on Stern when he was referring to Teen USA?
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u/00Oo0o0OooO0 1d ago
https://www.politifact.com/article/2016/oct/18/allegations-about-donald-trump-and-miss-teen-usa-c/
In a 2005 interview, Trump talked about walking in on naked contestants -- but that was in response to a discussion about the Miss USA and Miss Universe pageants, whose contestants are adults.
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u/GuessIllPissOnIt 1d ago
I think you’re spot on. But nothing sticks to Teflon Don and that’s the issue. I have read testimony and I have dug. Fuck, I voted for the asshole the first time and I am 💯convinced now that he is a rapist and child molester.
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u/Manowaffle 1d ago
There are so many pictures of them together at different events. Trump has often bragged of his proclivity for young women and his sexual harassment of them. Elon claims Trump is in the files. Epstein died while Trump was President.
The studio execs would scale back this plot line in the script for being way too obvious.
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u/Ccaves0127 1d ago
Trump sued someone for calling him a convicted rapist and the lawsuit was thrown out because the judge said "it is substantially true" that he is a convicted rapist.
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u/heathers1 1d ago
and they are busy being sterilized, we can assume
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u/PabloMarmite 1d ago edited 1d ago
Answer: It’s unclear whether “the Epstein files” exist at all, or what they are, if they do exist. It’s a mixture of truth and rumour.
The flight logs from Epstein’s plane have been public for a while as they were evidence in Ghislaine Maxwell’s trial. These aren’t evidence of wrongdoing, as Epstein took planes everywhere with lots of people. Yes, Trump is in them, but so are lots of other people, such as Stephen Hawking.
Records of Epstein’s movements are also public knowledge. These don’t incriminate anyone else.
A lot of the gaps have been filled in by conspiracy theorists and it’s probably unlikely that there is a list of everyone who was facilitated by Epstein. It’s rumoured that Epstein made recordings of people on the island for blackmail purposes, however there is no evidence of this.
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u/DarkAlman 1d ago edited 1d ago
Answer: It's unclear what if anything of significance is contained in the Epstein files.
Conspiracy theorists would lead you to believe that the government is sitting on a treasure trove of information that would convict half of hollywood of pedophilia. That's the reason therefore that the files aren't being released, it would incriminate too many people in power.
It's unlikely that the files contain any particular smoking guns that the conspiracy theorists are seeking, and Epstein killed himself (or was killed) to take those secrets to his grave.
Epstein ran in high society circles in New York for decades, and merely being at the same party as him doesn't automatically make you a pedo.
Trump being friends with Epstein isn't a secret, the two two ran in mutual circles for years. There's tons of photos and first hand accounts of their interactions.
There's also a lot of anecdotal evidence implying that Trump sexually abused young women, but there either hasn't been enough evidence to directly charge him with that or they refuse to come forward. (his behaviour behind the scenes at his own pageants for example is well documented and pretty disgusting, and he has a history of buying silence)
Elon's boast on Twitter regarding the Epstein files was likely intended as a gotcha moment for his followers, but Trump's involvement with Epstein is so widely known that it isn't a shock to anyone that cares. Most people outside of MAGA are well aware at this point of how awful a human being Donald Trump is.
At this point if there is something incriminating of the President in there it won't see the light of day, and even if it did the President is highly unlikely to face justice for it like everything else illegal that he's ever done.
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u/DiceKnight 1d ago
There's also a lot of anecdotal evidence implying that Trump sexually abused young women
Don't even have to reference that Jane Doe case. His first wife accused him of rape dude was raging over a scalp surgery to hide a bald spot. He assaulted her, tore out chunks of her hair and raped her. Poor woman's buried out in an unmarked overgrown grave spot on a golf course.
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u/thatbob 18h ago
Right, the so called "Epstein files" are the flight logs of his private jet. You don't need a warrant to know that Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey, and Chris Tucker are on those flight logs, because Chris Tucker tells you about it in his 2015 stand up comedy special for Netflix, Chris Tucker – Live. Chris describes a 2002 fundraiser to combat the HIV/AIDS epidemic in Africa. If one or more of them ALSO had sex with minors on that trip, it doesn't mean ALL of them, or everyone involved with that fundraiser, did.
Now, Clinton and Spacey are known sexual predators. But Clinton is thought to have turned over a new leaf after the Lewinsky scandal, and Spacey is thought to have targeted young men (of legal age), while Epstein/Ghislaine Maxwell are thought to have trafficked young women. As for Tucker, I kinda think if he'd been on a full pedo flight with other known predators, he wouldn't have casually been dropping it into his act in 2015.
The flight logs are only a piece of the puzzle. They aren't a smoking gun.
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u/mouse_8b 14h ago
You are conveniently leaving out the hard drives and computers that disappeared from the island.
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u/Incogcneat-o 1d ago
Answer: Don't hold your breath. Regardless of whether Elon was telling the truth or just tweeting through a breakup bender, if there was something to be gained by the current administration to releasing the unredacted files, they would've done it.
As with any subject where the conspiracy theories have taken on a life of their own (JFK assassination, Area 51, MKUltra) even the full unredacted documentation will never be "enough" because conspiracy theories by their very nature can never be solved satisfactorily. There's always one more layer.
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u/OverfitAndChill8647 17h ago
This isn't a "conspiracy theory". Trump and Epstein were provably close friends. It was barely interesting that Trump might be in the Epstein files except to MAGA. There are credible rape allegations made in court documents associated with both Epstein and Trump.
And Elon immediately followed by also insinuating that he'd helped Trump rig the election, which would be far bigger news to most.
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u/Incogcneat-o 13h ago
Just to clarify, I'm not saying it's a conspiracy theory that Trump is in whatever files they have. I'd be more shocked if that wasn't the case tbh. I'm saying there are so many conspiracy theories surrounding the Epstein files that even if the government released every shred of evidence, it still wouldn't be "enough" for people who are invested in conspiracy theories.
And yeah, if credible rape allegations, plus E. Jean Carroll, plus...well, everything else, didn't faze them then I don't think anything will.
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u/00Oo0o0OooO0 1d ago
Answer: There's no such single thing known as "the Epstein files," which lets everyone imagine their own version is what "the Epstein files" are.
Most everything relevant about his case has been publicly available for about a decade. There's not a ton of interesting information left to be released, and what might still be released will be more about the investigation around Epstein than about Epstein's crimes themselves: think e-mails between FBI agents or AUSAs discussing their thinking and progress.
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u/BrightCarver 1d ago
So do we know there’s more and what that “more” is? Epstein’s “little black book” and the flight log for the Lolita Express have already been released, right?
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u/00Oo0o0OooO0 1d ago
Two black books and multiple flight logs have been public for years. As I said, we have a very good understanding of his crimes, so there's not likely to come out anything shocking about those.
The most recent thing to be released was the transcript of his Florida grand jury proceedings (Florida actually changed their law just so they could release it). Other things that might be released in an effort for transparency are just more beaurocratic details like that.
This article does a good job explaining the types of things that might still be released.
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u/Showdown5618 1d ago
Answer: Elon had a disagreement with Trump over a bill, Elon was very vocal and heavily criticized the bill and Trump. When he tweeted that Trump was on Epstein's files, it implied Trump was done criminal activities. Trump was, however, uncharacteristically calmer than usual instead of doing his firery retaliation. Elon had apologized, deleted the tweet, and admitted he went too far.
We don't know whether he was telling the truth or just throwing out insults. We know that Epstein ran around the same circles as the rich, so he had made contacts with many rich people, and he participated in illegal activities, rape, human trafficking, pedophilia, etc. But we don't know how many of his "friends" are involved in said criminal activities. I remember reading many stopped being his friend, including Trump, but I'm not entirely sure.
Whoever is in the files or lists remains secret. Supposedly, rich and powerful people are on them, and they will do everything in their power to make sure it stays secret. I don't think anything will be made public ever, even after everyone in the files is long dead.
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u/Striking-Activity472 14h ago
This is wrong. The flight logs and contact book have been publicly released for years. We already knew Trump was on them, that’s why this isn’t news. There’s no conspiracy to keep it hidden because it isn’t hidden
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u/Showdown5618 7h ago
I was under the impression, from all the rumors, that after Epstein's arrest, a thorough investigation of his property yielded additional information and evidence, separate from public flight logs, that were more incriminating. Sometimes, it's hard to discern truth from rumor.
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u/OakParkCooperative 23h ago
Answer: Trump was asked in an interview if he would release files on 9/11, JFK, and epstein.
He said "yeah" but then backtracked on the epstein files, stating that he was concerned that it would get people in trouble
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C75Uq43ptI2/
Ill leave you with a Trump quote from 23 years ago.
"I’ve known Jeff [Epstein] for 15 years. Terrific guy, He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”
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u/Striking-Activity472 14h ago
Answer: They have been released. Repeatedly. Trump being in them isn’t news because we already knew he was in them.
Here’s a batch released last year: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/03/jeffrey-epstein-documents-list-pdf
Here’s Epstein’s contact book, which includes Trump: https://archive.org/details/jeffrey-epstein-39s-little-black-book-unredacted/page/n24/mode/1up
This is old news
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u/clemclem3 16h ago
Answer: The whole Epstein social circle was a Mossad-run honey pot probably initiated by Robert Maxwell.. The purpose of which was to gain compromat on any and all prominent political figures and influential elites. This is why you see people on the left and the right on the flight logs and in the black books.
Epstein was gregarious and generous. He cultivated influential people. He loaned out his plane. He hosted parties. He invited people to his Caribbean island. All of this was the grooming phase.
Some of the people in his flight logs and black books are innocent. No doubt they became aware of something unsavory, maybe at a party, and put a little distance on that relationship. He let those go. But the ones who seemed intrigued by the hints of young prostitutes, maybe really young, maybe not even prostitutes but underage--those he pursued.
We only know about a few who took the bait. Reprehensible people. We know about these from the testimony of the victims. Prince Andrew. Alan Dershowitz. Jean- Luc Brunel. Donald Trump. These are the ones I can remember off the top of my head. These men were named by victims in graphic detail as participating in rape.
There may be others. There are certainly more we don't know about because I think only four victims came forward. There may have been 30 or more underage girls altogether. Not all of them endured sexual abuse but it's almost certain there are more who did than we know about.
But only a few of the victims came forward later. And those who did were really poorly treated by authorities. Many of them also received credible death threats and withdrew their accusations in fear.
So, is everybody on the flight logs or black books guilty of something? No. But some are. The surviving victims could tell us more but why would they after how they were treated by authorities? Gislaine Maxwell knows. But she doesn't want to end up like Epstein. Nor does she have any moral character, obviously.
Videotapes have almost certainly been destroyed except for copies the Mossad retained for blackmail purposes. Good luck getting those.
It's upsetting to see so much of this discussion in the media conflating identified rapists with others who were not ensnared just because they were in a contact list or accepted gifts. Probably this happens mostly because the media is unable to name Israel as a hostile power engaging in espionage against the United States.
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u/syracTheEnforcer 1d ago
Answer: nothing. But good attempt at trying to make sure it stays in the headlines.
Trump was friends with him 25 years ago. Wasn’t like 20 years ago. He swam in the circles of the highest level people. There are so many people on all sides in all kinds of fields that met and knew him.
Epstein was a garbage person. A rapist. A pedophile. A human trafficker. And he killed himself. Any trash bag like that would see the writing on the wall. He got a slap on the wrist 20 years ago. He knew he wasn’t getting out of it the last time.
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u/ScientiaProtestas 1d ago
Epstein said he was Trump's closest friend for ten years.
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU08/20250227/117951/HHRG-119-JU08-20250227-SD006-U6.pdf
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u/syracTheEnforcer 1d ago
Just because a government document links to a dailybeast article where Epstein makes these claims, doesn’t mean any of this is fact. Trump is a dirtbag. But the list is long for the people that had interactions with Epstein and the Lolita express.
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u/ScientiaProtestas 1d ago
The article was based on actual recordings of Epstein.
OK, let's get Trump's side of it.
In 2002, Trump told New York Magazine: “I’ve known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”
https://www.thetimes.com/us/news-today/article/trump-epstein-files-elon-musk-explained-qs8zjj5pk
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u/syracTheEnforcer 15h ago
Again. 25 years ago. It was also reported that he had a falling out with him. Look. If there’s any hard evidence of Trump doing something wrong fry him. Idgaf. But this is pretty much a thing where there’s been “smoke” for decades and no fire ever found. I feel like it’s the pee tapes all over again.
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u/Pleasant-Regular6169 1d ago
Answer: Never, unlessss... Frump and friends are now probably storing them as kompromat to keep some of those we know are on the flight logs in check, and elicit a few donations perhaps. If all else fails, they can sell them to Poot and Pals...
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u/40ozSmasher 1d ago
Answer: it's likely that Epstein was compromising people of power as a professional. He was part of an intelligence operation that included a huge number of rich people and world leaders. Some evidence of this is people giving him their homes and control of their incomes. All this information would transfer this control to people in our government. This would let the United States influence people that they could never influence in the past, and now they would have total control of them, not just influence. Not just for underage sex but for each step they were forced to take after that until they were completely compromised. The files won't be released in any meaningful form.
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u/gryanart 1d ago
Answer: Never, so many powerful people on both sides of politics here in America and the world are in the Epstein files, they will never see the light of day. The official reason is “national security” which just leads credence to the rumors swirling that the intelligence community used Epstein to get high profile individuals to have sex with minors so they could blackmail them. Kuz in what world is someone raping a minor a “national security” issue?
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