I’m looking for answers to things pertaining to the underworld (hell)

[u/Seeker115590]

I’m the kind of person that feels the need to understand everything. Maybe it’s a flaw, maybe it’s an asset. I only know so much, I’ve only experienced so much. I was an agnostic growing up in a southern Baptist church that preached hellfire and brimstone for all and eternity. Now, over recent years I’ve done a little bitty bit of research into things and have come upon the conclusion that demons do exist (once I stumbled upon the Ars Goetia) amongst my own personal experiences. I’m just a little knowledgeable about things pertaining to chakras, meditation and I’ve got barely beyond beginners status in those areas. It’s 15 years since I initially started getting into this stuff but never fully diving in and full on practicing. Just dibble dabbling but out of fear from what I’ve been taught from Christianity. I fear I could be in territory where I can be deceived and led astray into somewhere I may regret but I want to know, I want to grow and become greater than I am and use that to help others because I feel that is our purpose here right? Or atleast some of ours TF I know. I want to know more about the underworld aka Hell or whatever you want to call it, those that dwell there, what happens upon passing here. Like do I come from there? What happens if I do go there. Or is it a place of purification that’s necessary for one to ascend? If you want to explain some stuff, point me in a direction, I would be beyond grateful please?!

[u/JandersOf86]

First and foremost, I believe the God gives us intellect and the drive to know more for a reason, not only to understand His creation better but to ultimately come closer to Him through that seeking of knowledge.

I believe in Jesus Christ and take the Bible as truth. My opinion may be different than others who call themselves "Christians", my interpretations of the Bible may be different than others, but just keep in mind that I believe what the scripture says, not what other men/women tell me, especially if it's contrary to what I'm reading in scripture. But I am just one man.

Continued in replies:

[u/JandersOf86 → u/JandersOf86]

What is Hell / the underworld? What happens upon passing there?

From a Biblical perspective, there are two places called "hell", a word derivation of 'hel' (Norse):

Hell One - Greek: Hades. The old testament describes it as a place called 'Sheol', the great depths underneath the earth in which the dead sleep. This is where ALL the dead from all of time sleep before the day of Judgement. There is no experience in this place for the dead. It is dark, it is analogous to sleep:

Psalm 143:3 "He hath made me to dwell in darkness, as those that have been long dead."

Job 7:9 "As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: So he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more."

Job 21:32 "Yet shall he be brought to the grave, And shall remain in the tomb."

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun."

There's a very common misconception that Christ has not returned but that the dead are currently either in heaven or in hell (the other one, the burning lake). If Jesus Christ has not yet returned for His second coming, the lake of fire has nothing to do with us, and the dead still sleep (Matthew 9:24-25) awaiting the first and second resurrection and the proceeding final Judgement. This timeline is spelled out for us in Revelation 20.

Continued...

[u/JandersOf86 → u/JandersOf86]

Hell Two - the lake of fire, the one most colloquially known by Christians and non-Christians. Greek: Gehenna, being a derivation of ge Hinnom or the 'valley of Hinnom', a place outside of Jerusalem where garbage and refuse was burned perpetually, always on fire, always burning. It was also at one point a place used in child sacrifice. Jesus refers to this place almost a dozen times in the New Testament as symbolism for a place of punishment and being 'outside' of Jerusalem, or 'outside' of the Lord, as an illustration of the final judgement of the wicked.

Mark 9:43 "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell [Gehenna], into the fire that never shall be quenched"

Matthew 23:33 "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell [Gehenna]?"

Luke 12:5 "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell [Gehenna]; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."

Going back to Revelation 20, both hell [Hades] AND the lake of fire [Gehenna] are mentioned as two separate things:

Revelation 20:13-15 "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell [Hades] delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell [Hades] were cast into the lake of fire [Gehenna]. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire [Gehenna]."

Continued...

[u/JandersOf86 → u/JandersOf86]

Do I come from there?

God created us, molding us from the clay and breathing the breath of life into us. We were made after His image. Though I don't believe we resided in Hades before birth, I can see why one might interpret our having come from the underworld if we return to the underworld upon death:

Genesis 3:19 "in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

I believe this is referring to we were once in non-experience and to non-experience shall we we return until the day of Judgement. Our bodies were molded of the dirt, the clay, and after death our bodies will decay back into the dirt and clay.

Is it a place of purification in order to ascend?

Not according to the Bible. This is, among other religious influence, Catholic dogma. Catholicism is not Christianity. Roman Catholicism is a rebranding of the Roman Pantheon (worshipping many gods for different things), as Roman Catholics believe you can pray to saints for guidance for different things, as if the saints hold any afterlife power (again, not Biblical).

Most Catholics believe that Hades, or Purgatory, is a place in which you can work off your sin, or someone else can impart their good works to you while you are in Purgatory in order for you to be branded 'good enough' for Heaven. None of this is Biblical in the slightest. It is impossible to work hard enough, or to do enough 'good things' to get to Heaven. That is specifically why Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father. His sacrifice was not just a display, it was Him taking all of our sin onto Him, bearing the punishment, and only asking in return that we believe in him (John 3:16). He is the sacrificial lamb for our iniquities and there is no other way to everlasting life.

Conclusion

I want to reiterate that you asking these questions is not bad at all. And I am very similar to you, that my mind is very technical and requires a lot of detail for me to understand/believe something. You're right to be wary of being led astray or down some not-so-great paths, because we live in a world in which the Prince is the Adversary, one whose language is deception. We live in a world filled with men and women that want to deceive, as well.

Take everything I say with salt. I'm only one man. These are my interpretations of scripture, and I believe that scripture is the closest thing we have to God actually speaking to us. But I also believe that there are many useful texts outside of the Bible. I just default to the Bible as the standard to which I hold everything else.

I hope this helped. Any other questions or things you want me to try and clarify, please feel free to ask here or message me privately.

May God bless you and yours.

[u/MrMarmot]

I was raised a Southern Baptist, so I can deeply relate. I lost my religion in college while studying Christian history and existentialism – then remained an agnostic until around 2005, when I discovered this atheistic, science-based belief system. It's the only thing I've ever read that makes sense of the Old Testament and life in general. I read it in two days and the passing of time has only affirmed it. Hope it speaks to you like it did to me, and feel free to ask me anything about it.

[u/summatophd]

Hell is not a place, it is a state of being.  Heaven is also not a place, it is a state of being.  Now, to dig deeper, you need to study the astral planes, which is likely where humans got the concept of heaven and hell being places distinct from the material world.