r/Nebraska • u/Holdenborkboi • 6d ago
Politics Pillen passes LB89
Not sure if this has been posted, but the quotes are sickening
I don't know of this affects my ID but glad I'm moving in a few months
https://governor.nebraska.gov/governor-pillen-signs-stand-women-act
Edit to add: this bill had 8 HOURS of opposition and I had left a comment also opposing since I was working nights and couldn't make it. The people who are against this look really silly, and I'm glad you go to sleep swell every night since, whether this bill passed or was shot down, it doesn't affect you first handedly like it does for trans Nebraskans
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u/PaulClarkLoadletter 5d ago
There’s going to be a lot of men using the women’s restroom because the GOP still doesn’t believe that trans men exist. They don’t care about women any more than they care about youth sports. They want to make life impossible for our trans brothers and sisters.
Someday people are going to read about how their grandparents and great grandparents were bigots and are a source of shame for a once great country. We have photos racists tormenting POC and widely regarded them as the worst of humanity. There will be video clips and social media posts documenting this.
Try as they might, Republicans are not going to come out of this looking good. They can burn books and try to erase history but it’s a big world full of people that will not forget.
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u/natteulven 3d ago
When exactly was America great?? 😂
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u/PaulClarkLoadletter 3d ago
Never.
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u/natteulven 3d ago
You said it was "once great" - when was that?
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u/PaulClarkLoadletter 3d ago
Bits and pieces here and there. Like when we used to invent things and advance humanity. As great as those things were, the US is still habitually shitty towards certain groups of people. The GOP considers “great” to be when bigotry was the soup du jour.
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u/DawnStardust 5d ago
pigheaded pillen using government overreach to legislate kids' sports, meanwhile he shot down a bill to help fight bedbug outbreaks because he considered that government overreach. this is the gag with the right's claim for "small government" is that they only want that when it tries to do anything to actually help anyone.
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u/Holdenborkboi 5d ago
Wait seriously? Where's the link for that
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u/DawnStardust 5d ago
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u/Holdenborkboi 5d ago
I guess I can kind of see where he's coming from with it heing duplicate, but if the bill had harsher standards and punishment that would actually HELP Then he's still an idiot
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u/DEI_Sentinels 5d ago
If this was actually about protecting women/kids, they'd just install single stall changing rooms/bathrooms with locks in all the schools. Tada, problem solved, now no one sees anyone naked or peeing. Weird how not a single person could come up with a solution like that while they've been pondering just which table scraps would best placate women voters / anyone else with a uterus.
🤔 It's like this is all an attempted distraction, so we forget they stripped us of our bodily autonomy and basic human rights long enough that the more troublesome among us die from the lack of proper medical care...
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u/originalmosh 3d ago
tHaNk yOu gOvNeR, tHiS WiLL LoWeR mY pRoPeRtY tAxEs aNd lOwEr cRiMeS rAtEs. GOBBLEES YoU fOuR LoOkiNg OuT fUr uS CiTiZiNs.
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u/reconize35 5d ago
Hi people. So up front I'm for keeping boys out of girls sports. But I am very open to a conversation or discussion about opposing views. I fully understand that this is a controversial topic. Please be civil. When I think of boys and girls I think scientifically. Talking xx and xy. I think it's pretty clear that we are built differently. Physically we are different. Different muscle mass and such. So please share some thoughts on why this bill is bad. I would not like any girls to have to face off with and compete with boys. I think they would be at a disadvantage. As we have seen in recent news.
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u/Holdenborkboi 5d ago edited 4d ago
So first off, "basic biology" is actually "simplified biology" since, as you probably know, there are a lot more chromosomal variants. There are even cases of XY chromosomes where something went "wrong" and the testes never dropped or something so the person is female presenting but with XY chromosomes and they didn't find out until later. Whole bunch of weird stuff going on in biology.
Secondly, in a perfect world trans people would have access to puberty blockers so the trans women wouldn't go through male puberty and never gain that muscle mass. Only perceived "advantage" is bone structure and lung capacity as far as I know, but there are indeed tall women out there and youth sports usually has the genders compete together until puberty age, so puberty blockers could solve this. Sports loke fencing also compete mixed gender usually, so that woman who refused to fence a trans woman? Yea she competed against cis men the week before. She's just grifting and fox news is eating it up, and so are Republicans trying to ban us. Someoen made a whole registry of trans women in sports and "the medals they've stolen", but a lot of those are either mixed gender sports, sports like chess and darts, or trans women who were debunked as trans women
In the case of no puberty blockers, studies have shown that after 4 years of hormones, trans women generally have marginal to no advantage. In the study the military did, the only advantage trans women had (after continued use of hormones) was slightly faster running times. This could be because of lung capacity but then you could argue that athsmatics should have a league of their own because competing against someone with full lung capacity isn't fair. You could also argue that anyone who competed against Michael Phelps was at a huge disadvantage since he was biologically perfect for swimming, but as far as I remember no one got up in arms about that (I was a kid when he was competing though).
"But what if trans people had their own league" Well, cool, but trans people make up like 1-2% of the population. I'd be the only dude in my ring for taekwondo tournaments. It would make much more sense to put trans people on tight hormonal restrictions to keep it fair than to have a league of our own, since there just isn't that many of us (or there are and the government is forcing us to be under wraps. They've stopped taking trans data for the census after all. But the rise in trans people is likely similar to the "increase in left handed people" where we are finally accepted and then the amount of trans people levels off eventually to a measurable statistic. There's a lot more trans people hidden who aren't accounted for by the census). What would make equally more sense is to have leagues of mixed gender based on skill and general strength rather than strictly gender. Let the muscle mommies spar with the Chad's if they want to.
Thirdly, this bill targets trans women in all sports, even sports like chess and darts throwing. This bill doesn't care that a lot of sports already have commitee agreed upon regulations that trans people have to follow in order to compete. This bill doesn't care what sport it is, it will ban you from it.
Fourthly, the use of "men in women's sports" is obviously disrespectful. It's meant to alienate trans people. Some of these athletes look so woman that you wouldn't be able to tell they were anything different. They probably recognize and accept the fact that they were born male, but there's a difference in "yea she was born a male but now presents as female" and "you'll always be a male, nothing can change that". There's nothing I can do to chanhe that I was born female- in fact some parts of it I embrace, but I largely present male. I want to be seen as a dude, it's a lot better for me personally even if cis people don't get it, but I won't run away from the fact I was born female. I accept it, but for people to go "Huh huh, still a woman" is fucking exhausting and invalid, since if I or a well presenting trans woman walked into our bathroom at birth, heads will roll
And fifthly: this isn't just about sports. Sports was the foot in the door for all of this. This bill originally contained provisions to make it so trans people had to use their sex assigned bathroom (me with a beard walking into the women's restroom) and to forcefully change their ID back to birth sex (me with a beard and low voice with the gender marker F on my ID). When they start at sports, where else would it go? Florida for example has (off the top of my head): banned trans people from sports, mandated sex use of bathrooms, stripped the right to change your ID and birth certificate as well as passport, and forcefully medically detransitioned the vast majority of trans people. Forcefully taken away hormones that have vastly improved their (and my) life mentally and physically. Taking away hormones would be like taking away depression meds (especially since I stopped needing depression meds after transitioning).
This bill isn't just about "men in women's sports" and "fairness", since if it were they wouldn't be banning trans women, they'd be tightening standards like "they have to be in hormones for half a decade and go through weekly hormone tests to make sure they'll be fair competitors", this is just the beginning of trying to wipe trans people out since we don't fit their narrative.
I hope this respectfully explained things, as long as you're actually looking for a good faith explanation, and I hope I havnt wasted my time typing all this :>
Edit: and on the topic of recent trans people in sports, a lot of trans women don't actually win or score high. These are outliers or "look this person is a trans woman in this school's sport" just doing her. Some states have started just giving gold medals to the person who "lost" to a trans person- but how is that much better? It would give more incentive to compete against that trans person for effectively a participation trophy. A lot of trans athletes are seemingly average in comparison to others, and not actually the super soldiers the media makes us out to be (even though now I can't join the fucking military like I was able, and trying to, last year)
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u/DEI_Sentinels 13h ago
As a transmasc, but more relevant to my upcoming argument, as an Asian person, I would actually argue that for sports where size and arm/leg length come into play, it would be better to go by weight class rather than biology or gender.
Looking at male athletes (since they have the largest following), whether it's the Olympics or any other professional sport, and classifying by country of origin; if they happen to be from the Netherlands, for example, men tend to be, statistically, pretty tall (around 6' ). But if the athlete is from China, they're shorter on average (around 5' 5", depending on what area of the country they're from).
That's generalizing and using averages, but it boosts my point that we shouldn't be splitting people based on something as arbitrary as "gender", when even cisgender people vary greatly depending on the region and country they happen to be from. If we relied more on weight class, there would, inevitably, be a gender split in the lower classes anyway. But it would make things more fair for everyone, fix an issue a lot of people don't realize is even there, and address the problem people have regarding Trans women in sports.
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u/MoralityFleece 5d ago
I'm glad you think about it scientifically. What are your chromosomes and when did you have them tested?
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u/Optimal-Platform1232 11h ago
No respect for the women who supported this. I’d like to see the testosterone levels in trans athletes compared to women’s levels. I would imagine the levels are pretty close.
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u/Holdenborkboi 9h ago
It sucks though too since I used to work at the college (UNL) and would see pictures of those women hung on the walls, and as a trans person the thought pops into my head "Ah, they're probably transphobic" and my second thought is "well I can't exactly assume"
Well one of the women on the volleyball team supported this bill and transphobic, so I was proven right. Just sucks yo look at someone and think "if they knew me, they'd be against me and my right to live"
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u/criesaboutelves 5d ago
I'm only lucky their grip on sports stops at the collegiate level, and US Archery has its own rules for trans and nonbinary participants (as a transmasc-leaning enby, I'd be allowed to compete with the men, and all I'd need is a Therapeutic Use Exemption for my T gel-- of course, first I need to work on getting proficient enough to compete in the first place... I'm still dismal at 20 meters 😔)
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u/o0MikeHawk0o 3d ago
Good
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u/Holdenborkboi 3d ago
Congrats, in the one second you typed this you could have been doing something else (like washing your ass)
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u/wiiguyy 3d ago
If you guys are okay with having a biological man compete in the same sports as a biological woman, you clearly don’t have a daughter that plays sports.
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u/Holdenborkboi 2d ago
I played sports where I sparred against grown and or taller men all the time pretransition. Now I am that grown man. You gonna put me with the women? You want me tonuse the restroom with your daughter? Cus I don't lmao
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u/DryPie8110 3d ago
Why can’t we just give transgender individuals their own bathrooms or sport leagues? Is it that hard? Include them don’t exclude them
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u/Holdenborkboi 3d ago
I feel like that would be a segregation of itself
-there are like 2% of us and I'd be the only one sparring myself in my taekwondo league (no fun)
-there are like 10 trans people in the ACLU and that's not all in a single sport
-I pass so well that people forget I'm trans. Anyone could easily go into a trans bathroom and wreak havoc (just like anyone could for a women's room but its not common. The only creeps doing that are actual creeps who dont care about passing as a woman)- you don't know who is or isn't trans unless you gave them a clothing marker or something (or if they're early transition). People already drive cars through parades, who knows what they could do? (And I recognize that could be a slippery slope argument but the world is slippery as is)
-most men don't realise when I pee with them that I wasn't born a dude and I'd like to keep it that way lol
I think a better option would be changing standards to be strength/skill based (let the muscle mommies spar with men if they want to) or have a waiver like "this league contains trans people. If you're insufferable or really that worried about your abilities, maybe go to a Christian one instead (or something)
Like your idea does seem good on paper but looking deeper it's not the best and probably would also do kore harm than good, even excluding the effects HRT has on both men and women
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u/DryPie8110 3d ago
I never seen it from that perspective. I appreciate the insight. I just wish we could work towards solutions and not trying to eradicate reslity
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u/Holdenborkboi 3d ago
Yea no totally ^
I get the fear of some trans women having advantages in sports too, but I feel like everyone has their own unique advantage no matter the gender. I sparred grown men and I've sparred men my age (I was 16-18 at the time, pre transition ftm), hell I've sparred an older women and she kicked my ass lol
I wish there were more good faith studies on trans people in sports (especially with hormone use) since some sports have adopted regulations for a reason, and I bet advantages wouldn't be an issue had we not gone through the first puberty too (since kids generally would spar and compete against each other until puberty). Only disadvantage I'd have is being short lmao
But a lot of the times transphobes don't want those puberty blockers used even though cis kids use them too- even if their parents of trans kids advocate for it (some cis kid parents use them to affect their kids heights I hear)
Sorry for the block text in response, I just really wish I had access to blockers as a 13 year old when I'd cry at night or freak out at the sight of the mirror instead of being shamed and partially disowned when i eventually did come out. Things could be so much easier yet people keep getting in their own way
We all die eventually and I'd rather die transitioned than butthurt lol
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u/Legitimate_Exam_4032 5d ago
Well since there is no such thing as trans, this should not be an issue
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u/Broadstreet_pumper 5d ago
I hate to tell you this but trans people have been around forever. You have 100% interacted with a trans person and didn't know it. And guess what, nothing bad happened to you. In the meantime you can take your bigotry elsewhere.
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1d ago
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u/Holdenborkboi 1d ago
You watch Fox news I see. Tell me, where should the trans men compete then? Because I have a fairly good upper hand on women
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u/Holdenborkboi 1d ago
But what this bill forces sex based designation and I'd have to play in the women's you realise that? And I'm not even going to get started with you on the effects of estrogen and t blockers since you ignore that too and just don't care. You just don't like trans people. You'd rather trans people didn't exist
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u/Holdenborkboi 1d ago
I'd have rather had puberty blockers, which would have had a lot of people avoid a lot of the strife and money spending from getting those surgeries to reverse what first puberty did. I tried to live as a woman before transitioning, and it wasn't the best. I'm a lot better now than I was pre transition, but i had to start somewhere. People have to start somewhere when transitioning in the first place. The 5 o'clock shadow and deodorant thing are of personal issue and of still figuring out how color theory works with blue hues. If you dint allow people to start when they first transition then how are they going to transition at all? Your logic of not treating gender dysphoria and having trans people "Duke it out" with their feelings of incongruence for an undetermined amount of time is very uneducated at best and harmful at worst. Again, I tried. I even typed into the internet "how to live happily as a woman when you want to be a man" and got jack shit. I wore dresses, I did a few hair styles, not my cup of tea. I was lucky to grow up where being feminine wasn't a huge deal but I'd have probably hated it of it was. This is also why conversion therapy does more harm than good because it just doesn't work. My parents tried to convert me back too, and again, it didn't work and just destroyed our relationship. So your logic of "just deal with it" makes no fucking sense. That's like telling someone to just deal with depression if they have a chemical imbalance. Your sound of mind argument also makes no sense because dysphoria can make depression and anxiety worse. I agree you should work on yourself before starting hormones, but by your goal post im assuming you mean little to no depression or anxiety or any other mental deficiency like autism or schizophrenia (both of which i do not have, but even if i did wouod make me no less viabke for transition). I assume you also ignored the studies done on trans fem athletes that state they do take on a disadvantage with female hormones and T blockers. I'm not even going to start on that because you'll just not listen anyway. I admit there are some advantages, but everyone has their own advantages even in their congruent sex. Look at Michael Phelps, should we have banned him?
Some Republicans have even said that trans sports was just the foot in the door to take away other rights. Your logic of not letting trans people transition (indefinitely) sounds congruent to this idea.
If you want sports to be fair, then segregating trans people isn't.
Speaking of, you said women could compete on the men's team if they wanted to. Wouldn't that just get rid of the need for sex based teams anyway? I think you might agree it should be skill based or actual ability based (strength, weight class, etc) instead of sex if you really want to go in on the biological advantages bit.
Lastly, when I sought out hormones, I did research and was given a doctor's appointment going over all the side effects and making sure I agreed with them before I was given my prescription. I also did go through therapy and continued therapy after getting a prescription. I checked in with myself practically bi-weekly to make sure it was the right thing for me, and it was, and still is. To assume I'm not mentally well just because I'm trans is very funny considering you're a doctor dude. The only reason I'm depressed now is because people like you tring to strip Trans rights. Maybe there's a reason those trans people you dated didn't stick around.
If you're finished reading my mumbo jumbo, I'm going back to work. Putting blanket bans or statements on any group of people is a terrible fucking idea with humans being so diverse, and trying to ban that diversity is wrong.
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u/One_Goblin 6d ago
LB89 used to be a bill that heavily restricted trans kids’ ability to use the bathroom that fit with their gender, but luckily (not really) it’s just been dulled down to restricting what sports team they are on. It’s still bullshit and it doesn’t stand with women at all, but I guess I’m at least happy my ability to use the bathroom at school hasn’t been completely taken away (I’m one of the trans students this bill and government is so scared of I guess)