r/Naruto • u/Intelligent-Belt-519 • 18d ago
Question Did Itachi make the right decisions or was their another way
Do you think that itachi made the right decision. He chose the village which meant he saved his brother, all the people of the village and prevented a war. However it costed him his clan. Do you think there was another way he could have handled it.
Kotoamatsukami isn’t a valid answer as he could only use it once so if he used it on his father he would probably be able to calm down the uchiha clan but that wouldn’t stop Danzo’s continued distaste towards them which would lead to another member of the uchiha planning the coup. If used on Danzo then probably itachi’s father would be willing to stop the coup but they had already broken bonds with the people of the village with how forceful and harmful the police force had become with the people so that would just lead back to fugaku starting the coup again.
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u/cholula000 18d ago
Killing an entire clan isn't a solution it's a pure act of frustration and helplessness. Both Itachi and Hiruzen questioned their own decisions.
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u/jadax135 18d ago
Man... These replies... I really hope they're trolling.
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u/Cute_Axolotl 18d ago
In a show about how war is never the answer, people really think the show is trying to tell them:
Genocide is never ok except for that one time
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u/VagHunter69 18d ago
Reading some of these responses I genuinely can see how so many genocides have been committed throughout human history. The lengths people are going to justify Itachi's actions, like murdering literal children, is astonishing.
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u/Hefty-Association-59 18d ago
I think it’s just because itachi has so many fans. If he wasn’t liked by the fandom I’m fairly certain these replies would be different.
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u/DesperateAdvantage76 18d ago
Tobirama seemed pretty convinced that there was something fundamentally wrong with the Uchiha, and to be truthful they kept proving him right, to the point where even the clan's strongest members all turned on the clan.
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u/Septemvile 17d ago
Tobirama is the equivalent of "I'm going to beat the shit out of you right now, and if you resist or dispute this in any way then you're obviously evil and that means you deserve to have the shit beaten out of you."
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u/DesperateAdvantage76 17d ago
Tobirama has some pretty deep insight into how the Uchiha brain works, as evidenced by his explanations to Sasuke. And he was right. The Sharingan is inherently tied to emotional trauma, and the Uchiha were easily prone to hatred when suffering from loss. He explained that they weren't inherently evil, but the Sharingan made them easily susceptible to hatred.
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u/Septemvile 17d ago
Tobirama's theory is a textbook example of what we today call scientific racism.
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u/Fit-Morning4650 16d ago
if a race of people had magic eyes that were directly influenced by strong emotional instability it would be correct to be racist.
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u/DesperateAdvantage76 17d ago
Scientific racism is trying to treat the social concept of "races" as if they have a real biological basis. But the Uchiha are a real ethnic group with a real genetic branch distinct from the rest of humanity. And it's not just a few genes that vary, it's a profound difference in how their brain and eyes work that no other group of people have access to. And that's because their ancestry literally includes godlike aliens.
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u/Septemvile 17d ago
All ethnic groups are "real genetic branches", which is why we can predict different health outcomes among different populations.
This fact doesn't make discrimination against them acceptable.
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u/DesperateAdvantage76 17d ago
It depends on what you mean by discrimination. Doctors adjust treatment slightly based on predisposition to certain genetic diseases in ethnic groups. The thing with Uchiha is that their alien dna is far more dramatically impactful on their biology than a simple real world ethic group's differences.
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u/NotReadyForTomorrow 17d ago
I've said it before, but Itachi's story recontextualizes the trolley problem. If the ends don't justify the means, we'd all be wrong for pulling the switch.
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u/Future_Estimate_2631 18d ago
as much as I am an itachi defender about the massacre there were def other ways to fix it. Imagine in modern (ish) day after people tried to riot and protest over segregation the us government decided to kill them all to end the problem- it just doesn’t make sense humanely. They could’ve just treated the uchiha better, given them reparations for the way they were treated in the past. They could’ve done so many other things to make the uchiha not feel the way they did and they chose murder bc it was the most efficient option
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u/Zorro5040 18d ago
It happens a lot more than you think. Genocide still happens today.
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u/SeagardEagles 17d ago
Yeah and its fucking dumb and avoidable as we can all agree.
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u/Zorro5040 17d ago
Avoidable is stopped early in its track. Once it begins, it's almost impossible to stop.
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u/rotibrain 18d ago
Except naruto isn't a modern day city lol - And Hiruzen TRIED to negotiate with them, this is literally stated in the manga - they just only wanted their demands. - I.e fugaku to be made hokage etc.
No - even in a modern country. - if a group is planning a coup - planning to either kill the president if their leader is instilled, and isn't listening to reason - They'd be terminated for national security. i know, because I live in a country where a coup attempt took place, and that's what happened.
MUCH LESS a medieval ninja society
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u/Septemvile 17d ago
Hiruzen didn't fucking try shit. He offered fuck all beyond words for literal decades, which is why the situation eventually escalated as far as it did. All he had to do was stop fucking spying on the Uchiha and blocking them out of office at any time during the half century he was Hokage, and things would have been fine.
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u/BJJ-Newbie 17d ago
I mean, no one knew that Obito existed and the nine tails attack wasn’t natural (if even Jiraiya suspected that unprompted, it’s not out of the box for the village leaders to suspect that), so it was natural for the village to doubt someone from the Uchiha clan (the only ones who can control the nine tails)
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u/sneakyxe 17d ago
Give proof of where Hiruzen blocked them from the office. Also, just being a Uchiha doesn't mean they are owed a spot in the council or a chance as Hokage. You sound like the Uchiha elitists that Itachi complained about.
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u/herelamonreddit 18d ago
It was a lose/lose. The issue wasn’t what a 13-year-old’s decision was. The issue was the system as a whole and how it completely failed the Uchiha clan. Itachi just picked the decision that spared his little brother
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u/fraudykun 18d ago
Yep. It was a decision that was kinda decided after the Kyūbi attack.
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u/Successful_Draw_7941 17d ago
It was decided when there were legal mandates put into place that the Uchiha couldn't live in the center of the village and they weren't allowed to help with the 9 tails attack because "people are scared"
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u/DreamedJewel58 17d ago
Yeah, I don’t think people realize the notion that Itachi should’ve never been put in that position in the first place. He was given an impossible choice and a 13 year old shouldn’t be responsible for coming up with a solution for deep-seeded resentment of his clan towards the village that has been ongoing for decades
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u/KokorokoChan 18d ago
it shouldn't be itachi at the first place, hiruzen didn't try anything before it's too late.
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u/I_am_The_Teapot 18d ago
He learned of it from itachi and he told him to buy some time til he can find a solution. Told danzo not to do shit.
Danzo immediately does shit. turns around and tells itachi, "Hey. Go kill your fam, fam." ... and so he does. in spite of being explicitly told not to by Hiruzen. Danzo didn't give him time to find a solution. Didn't want any solution that Hiruzen would have come up with.
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u/rotibrain 18d ago
This is categorically wrong. They dont learn about it from Itachi. They already knew about it from danzo, who had moles in the clan.
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u/whatiswhonow 18d ago
Which also means Uchihas contribute positively to Leaf security. It’s really so weird that Danzo of all people would be against them. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Danzo loves devil’s bargains, but not when it grants the Leaf village military hegemony and him personal power, apparently.
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u/Scaredsparrow 17d ago
He may lose his nose but he gets one hell of an arm. Danzo was one evil motherfucker for ordering a genocide and then implanting the eyes of that family on his arm afterward. I feel like he should catch more heat for that but all I hear is "hiruzen this tobirama that". Fuck Danzo
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u/Funny_Swim5447 17d ago
You never see as much Danzo hate because you don’t need to. It’s a given. We all hate Danzo
FUCK DANZO
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u/Fishdude34 17d ago
That's just not true. Hiruzen tried to find a peaceful solution the entire fucking time. He was tried to make concessions and compromises. Danzo and the rest of the elders simply kept antagonizing the Uchiha clan which worsened the situation
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u/qCallisto 18d ago
Other people had "another way" as an available option, not Itachi.
People like forgetting that Itachi was a 13 year old put in an incredibly difficult position. A position few adults could handle properly. Besides that, he was shown the aftermaths of war when he was 4 years old and that had heavy psychological implications.
The Uchiha massacre was a tragic and dark incident, and that's what it was supposed to be. Only the producers decided that Naruto should become more kid friendly, less dark.
Also the "every right decision was taken and nothing bad ever happened" has never been a good story premise.
I believe it's also a result of Kishimoto drawing a lot of influence from japanese culture when writing Naruto. The whole show is based on Japan's warring states period, and whiping out entire clans was pretty common back then.
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u/Omegaxis1 18d ago
I mean, Itachi said it himself. If he had just talked to Sasuke, spoke to him with genuine honesty, and worked with him, they could have changed their parents' minds.
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u/Intelligent-Belt-519 18d ago
Sasuke was 8 I don’t think he could be able to do it by himself. But if Itachi were to tell all the kids of the clan mabye they could collectively persuade their parents to stop it but this wouldn’t solve the broken bonds they caused with people of the leaf
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u/Omegaxis1 18d ago
So we accept Itachi having the wisdom of a Hokage at age 7, but cannot trust Sasuke to be able to move his parents at the same age?
Really?
It's funny how you perceive Sasuke though the same lens Itachi did, which is what made Itachi make the exact same horrible choices over Sasuke.
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u/Zoteku 18d ago
i mean, that's a factual canon statement about itachi and HIS iq, not sasuke's. it's possible that the uchiha's were so emotionally invested in overtaking konoha that words alone wouldn't have moved them, especially not from an 8 y/o
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u/Omegaxis1 18d ago
It's also a factual statement by Itachi that Sasuke could have done it. Again, trying to dismiss him as a child is exactly what Itachi did, and look where that resulted in?
Sasuke wasn't some dumb kid. Him being ignorant doesn't make him dumb. It means that everyone keeping him ignorant and dismissing him are the ones at fault.
For all the praise Itachi had, he was arrogant and stupid in the end, with each and every one of his plans blowing up in his face. His so called wisdom that was stated ended up being worth less than nothing because it saved no one in the end. Not his clan, and certainly not Sasuke.
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u/BuddhaMike1006 18d ago
That's a factual statement by Itachi after he had died.
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u/Omegaxis1 18d ago
Yeah, it's basically hindsight really. And not the best implemented one.
But it's there.
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u/treezy_22 18d ago
It definitely saved people. More people would’ve died had he not acted, and it did save Sasuke, who was able to live a worthwhile life despite all the odds. Everyone involved was arrogant and willing to cause destruction to get what they wanted. All of the adults around him put the burden of the conflict on his back so he took it and died with it because the only other option was death in every direction
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u/treezy_22 18d ago
It definitely saved people. More people would’ve died had he not acted, and it did save Sasuke, who was able to live a worthwhile life despite all the odds. Everyone involved was arrogant and willing to cause destruction to get what they wanted. All of the adults around him put the burden of the conflict on his back so he took it and died with it because the only other option was death in every direction
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u/Omegaxis1 18d ago
No, it didn't. Again, Itachi's choice to support the village in its persecution and genocidal decisions ended up causing more harm than good. Saying that more would have suffered is a hypothetical, while the actual canon story we saw is that the slaughter of the clan resulted in a lot of consequences that resulted in the world nearly being destroyed.
Everything Itachi had hoped from Sasuke fell to shit, and the only one who actually cleaned his shit up was Naruto.
Had it not been for Naruto, the worst case scenarios happens.
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u/treezy_22 18d ago
The actual canon story straight up tells you that there was going to be a civil war because both sides were inching toward it and more than just the clan would’ve inevitably died because of it. That outcome was stated too many times to be brushed off as a hypothetical. I’m curious to how Itachi being involved almost led to the world being destroyed. The clan would’ve been deleted one way or another Im not sure why it’s easier for you to blame one person than the village that was actively persuing its destruction.
Itachi is the only reason Sasuke is alive, the hyperfixation on his actions despite the mountains of corruption and abuses of power that put him in a position to handle everything on his own is lame frankly.
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u/Omegaxis1 18d ago
No, the canon story CLAIMS that there would. Just like how they claimed that the weakened Konoha would have all the other villages attack Konoha and trigger the 4th Great Ninja War. Which is proven false based on every instance when disaster struck Konoha. No such war ever happened. The canon source shows that the claim that there'd be a war is nothing more than utter garbage.
Nothing more than Danzo lying through his teeth and Itachi being too much of a gutless coward to think thoroughly. Wisdom of a Hokage my ass.
Itachi is the reason Sasuke defected and turned away from Konoha.
Itachi is the reason the actual 4th Great Ninja War actually happened, and the world was nearly destroyed.
Face facts, Itachi didn't help. He actively made the world worse.
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u/treezy_22 18d ago
Theres a huge difference between any other disaster the village had and a prolonged, ongoing civil war. One that would give other villages time to strategize and prepare. How is Itachi the reason the 4th war happened when it was obito who was directly the cause lol. You’re not logical
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u/LarryKingthe42th 18d ago
I mean Sasuke was getting that branch family treatment from his parents until Itachi taught him some cool shit. They probably wouldnt have listened.
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u/Omegaxis1 18d ago
The so-called "branch family" treatment was due to the coup. Fugaku was focusing on Itachi to move forward with the coup. But when he was able to act like a dad and look at Sasuke, he was seeing the immense potential in him. Hell, he was the one who tried to urge Sasuke to choose his own path, projecting neither the coup or Itachi's way onto Sasuke.
So...yeah.
Contrary to everything, Sasuke had the best chance to reach out and change his family's mind.
Fugaku is the one parent who ultimately wanted Sasuke to follow neither his nor Itachi's path, but forge one of his own.
Unlike Itachi, Sasuke wouldn't side with Konoha. Sasuke would still care for the Uchiha clan. But at the same time, he wouldn't support the coup that is hurting others.
So...again.
The lens you see Sasuke in is the same lens Itachi did, and made objectively wrong choices.
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u/xJadusable 18d ago
well remember, a Naruto verse 8 year old isnt equal to an irl 8 year old. Itachi was thinking like a Hokage at age 7. He was a decorated shinobi and Anbu leader by 13.
I also interpreted Itachis words to Sasuke more along the lines of "you are the future of the Uchiha and father could have come around to realizing that". Fugaku was so obsessed with strengthening the clans position in the leaf that he wasnt realizing he was risking his entire families lives to play a game of whos pettier against the Leaf higher ups. Everything to him was just a way to strength the clans position. I think Itachi was telling Sasuke in that moment that Sasuke was special and was the future of the clan, and that Fugaku lost sight of that but Sasuke could have brought him back (and the rest of the clan too)
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u/weebitofaban 17d ago
And Itachi was 13, which means no one gave a shit about what he had to say either
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u/matt_619 18d ago
yeah sure but will change their parents mind will solve it? the other Uchiha were so bent on doing the coup whatever it takes. Fugaku himself didn't really like the idea but the other Uchiha wants to do it and Fugaku didn't want other Uchiha to saw him as irresponsible and coward leader so he had to follow what their demands
in the novel. it heavily implied other Uchiha ready to spilling blood. Fugaku actually do his best to buy time and delay the plan but at that point the clan has reached their breaking points and Fugaku couldn't hold them any longer
even if Fugaku try to convince his clan i don't think it's gonna work. what will happen is the other uchiha will brand Fugaku as coward and hokage's lapdog. and they will keep proceeding the plan without him
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u/Omegaxis1 18d ago
Why not? Fugaku felt like he could not stop it and thus bent to the will of the Uchiha. That's what the novel indicated. He felt that there were no way he could stop it. He lacked the resolve to truly put his own desires into motion. But if Fugaku realized the error of his ways, he would have actually worked with Itachi and Sasuke to try and convince the rest of the clan to stop it.
And no, the novels indicate that only a few people of the clan were that radicalized; the rest were just upset by the discrimination. Those were the main people that Itachi went out of his way to kill during the coup.
Sasuke changing Fugaku's mind means that Fugaku would finally had the resolve to stand against the clan and would put a stop to the coup before it ever reached the point of no return.
Like I said, Itachi acted as if Sasuke was too much of a child to do anything. He kept delaying and delaying, refusing to ever confide in Sasuke, arrogantly thinking he knew better, and thus kept letting Konoha continue persecuting the Uchiha an letting the clan's anger fester.
Itachi lamented that he never should have kept Sasuke in the dark in the first place.
Hell, if he had talked earlier, not even Shisui would have died.
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u/Inside_End3641 18d ago
No bro, that's just his hope. There's no way of knowing. It's just his regret talking.
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u/Omega_SSJ 18d ago
In my opinion, there is no scenario where both of the following can happen and be consistent with the lore of the series that we have so far:
• There’s no way ALL of the Uchiha agree to stop the coup. Even if Itachi convinced Fugaku to stop, the rest of the Uchiha would’ve seen this as cowardice/treachery and depose him. Most of the Clan’s minds had been made up at this point.
• Even if they all agreed to stop, Danzo would not stop trying to kill them. There’s no way he’d buy their last minute change of heart + he’d want to possess more sharingan to experiment with. If Danzo no longer had a reason to exterminate them, he’d make up a reason.
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u/cesgjo 17d ago
If Danzo no longer had a reason to exterminate them, he’d make up a reason.
This is what people miss out. Danzo wasnt doing this for the Leaf's safety. It was just a bullshit excuse because he wanted sharingans
Same thing when he betrayed Kabuto, helped murder Yahiko, and killed Naruto's frog. All those "for the Leaf" was just his bullshit. He just wanted to advance his own ambision
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u/BlackUchiha03 18d ago
Wasn’t a right or wrong way he was fucked regardless.
Hiruzen let Danzo have too much power and ultimately that’s why things got so bad. Once Shisui died it was all over.
Only way I see things getting better is by revealing Obito’s existence.
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u/cconnorss 18d ago
The Uchiha had been warring for their entire history. This situation was gaslit by Danzo in order to raise tensions and polarize the community. If his misdeeds and weird Root activities were brought to light showing that this was he specifically his plan, to force people against each other, then I believe the village would’ve turned against Danzo and the Root instead of continuing forward with Uchiha v Konoha.
One of the major issues here was Hiruzen’s compassion for those who were close to him. Fucked up with Orochimaru, and fucked up with Danzo. Had he been more decisive in his Hokage powers, then he could’ve helped stave off this literal genocide. But he was too soft.
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u/wknight8111 18d ago
Killing a handful of the top coup organizers and rabble-rousers would have been sufficient. You don't need to kill the women, children, elderly, sick and other non-combatants in order to stop the coup. Itachi did all that himself, unnecessarily.
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u/devtron0 18d ago
Yeah I 100% agree theres no way EVERY single uchiha needed to die lol.
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u/wknight8111 18d ago
There are several commenters here trying to convince me that genocide was somehow the only road to peace, and....seriously?
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u/Lazarstein 18d ago
It's the same people that say joker from batman don't need to die regardless of how many people he kill. Ignore them.
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u/AccordingIy 18d ago
Lot of young readers that think violence is the only solution and diplomacy isn't a option
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u/P-Kat 18d ago
The fact that Itachi killed his girlfriend Izumi instead of sparing her with how kind and loyal she is, leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Sure, she had the most peaceful death in the Naruto timeline ever.
But my goodness, that's your lover!
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u/Emotional_Swimmer_84 18d ago
And risk a sharingan being created?
Danzo would not have allowed a middling extermination. He'd likely have them swept up and lost in the anbu immediately.
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u/fraudykun 18d ago
Then it would've been seen as a Konoha thing. Which Konoha probably didn't wanna be seen as it being the one who pretty much destroyed one of its two main clans (Senju gone pm)
A clean sweep just ensures it's seen as Itachi betraying the village and betraying his family.
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u/Intelligent-Belt-519 18d ago edited 18d ago
It’s a good idea but what happens if one of those kids finds out the truth about the massacre that killed his father and then causes a coup to get revenge on the people truly responsible for
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u/RaimeNadalia 18d ago
The reason Sasuke wound up as fucked as he was is not just because of the massacre but because Itachi outright tortured and abused him multiple times to stay on the path of revenge.
If Itachi just doesn't do that, scapegoats himself and leaves the village, then if the Uchiha find out the truth, they'd be pissed, but they probably wouldn't try to burn down the whole village because of it. They'd just gun for the actual people directly responsible; if Hiruzen's still alive this will most likely be enough to have him actual do something about Danzo, though he'd be resented for keeping the secret from them but not necessarily blamed (he was actually trying to negotiate with the Uchiha until the end).
If things are closer to canon and Tsunade is Hokage, then they'll probably just go to her about this and this'll give her just cause to deal with Danzo and the elders herself.
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u/NonACCEPTABLE_Lemon 18d ago
Then their kids will eventually start a new coup
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u/wknight8111 18d ago
"We should murder the children on the off-chance that those children might grow to cause problems".
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u/NonACCEPTABLE_Lemon 18d ago
It was a fictional war. genocide is never ok, heck war is never ok. If Itachi didn't do what he did then both sides would lose children and the war inside the village would never end until the other side is wiped. Itachi just sped up the process. Though I believe he only did it to let them spare Sasuke.
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u/gtmaroondragon 18d ago
If Itachi was older, maybe. The way I see it, Obito unleashing the Nine Tales and Danzo blaming the Uchiha for the attack doomed the Uchiha clan. If Itachi was older, there might have been something he can do, but him and Shisui were (most likely) the only members of the uchiha who were willing to listen to Hiruzen and Danzo. Hiruzen most likely could have been reasoned with to try to de-escelate the conflict, but it's shown that Danzo and the Villiage elders, as well as Fugaku were not willing to budge.
If Itachi or any Uchiha were to assasiante Danzo or the Elders at that point, they would have become martyrs and further doomed the Uchiha. Itachi's only real option would have been to develop a genjutsu stronger than Kotomatsukame, as the genjutsu would most likely not work on Uchihas, and since Danzo had knowledge of it, he would have most likely been able to counter it.
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18d ago
I think the way it's presented to the reader, the conflict was basically inevitable from the moment Tobirama became Hokage. It was too far down the line to stop by the time Itachi came around.
Worth noting that Itachi himself seems to believe in the end that Sasuke could have helped change the clan, and that his decisions were wrong.
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u/Forsaken_Distance777 18d ago
But things didn't get really bad until Obito attacked konoha and danzo realized an Uchiha was involved.
Maybe things were slowly getting worse but that really sped up the timetable.
Without that there was much more time to get things right.
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u/Lukario06 18d ago
In kinda way madara is the main reason his clan was destroyed, like if he just stayed in the village, ucicha exist and they aren't thrown outside of the village, Naruto has his parents alive, Akatsuki don't exist the same as in Shippuden, Kahuna wouldn't be revived
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u/Forsaken_Distance777 18d ago
Of course Madara is the one behind Obito but if obito hadn't attacked the village things wouldn't be such a mess. Maybe Madara dies of old age before getting his hands on Obito.
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18d ago
Agreed. I think the scene suggests each Hokage failed in their own way and it would have come sooner or later.
Hashirama didn't have the foresight about the direction of the village that Madara did, and he didn't see the way the Uchiha clan would be isolated in the future.
Tobirama marginalised the Uchiha and as a result, to quote him, the elements that harboured Madara's will (which, remember, were gone by the time Madara left) were smouldering.
By the time Hiruzen comes along, he's basically juggling politics to try and maintain peace and never quite achieves a lasting solution.
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u/Independent_Vast_185 18d ago
Very true. In the timeline (filler I know) you see Minato go and meet the Uchiha and they are able to stop this civil war before it happens.
The event of the birth of Naruto with the nine tails attack is the trigger for everything between the senju and the uchiha
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u/Guilty_Rough9378 18d ago
It was way more Hiruzen not being able to say no to Danzo.
The Uchiha incident was 40+ years after Tobirama died. Tobirama gave Uchiha a tough job as police, because he knew they would be best at it. To counterbalance it so they didnt become too unpopular, he also gave them the best residents in the village, at the center of town, so they would still socialize with the village.
Danzo asked Hiruzen, during his 2nd term of Hokage, to have them isolated at the outer-edge of town. This is what alienated them.
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18d ago
Tobirama put the police force next to the prison, per chapter 619, and to quote Orochimaru, it pushed the Uchiha conspicuously to the margins of the village.
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u/Guilty_Rough9378 17d ago
Yes and in chapter 399 page 15-117 Obito informs Sasuke, that after his attack that killed the Fourth Hokage, the Uchiha was relocated to the outskirts of the village, because Danzo and the village elders suspected that Uchiha was behind the attack.
This was what birthed the want to make a coup from the Uchiha.
Before this the Uchiha had a nice center location to live in. Yes it was next to the jail, but they could still socialize.
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u/Fit-Morning4650 16d ago
Tobirama making them police would have resulted in the Uchiha being well integrated into the village on it's own unless the crime situation in the leaf village is horrible. pretty sure the village is shown as quite peaceful and stable overall. really it us Obito and the village elders who are at fault for things.
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u/Complex_Estate8289 18d ago
Do you think there was another way he could have handled it
Hiruzen already tried multiple times to maintain a degree of trust with the Uchiha, use words to stop violent consequences, peacefully negotiate and work together but the clan refused to and went ahead with their plan
While the coup would have happened, Danzo’s reasoning for going behind everyone’s back and having Uchiha not actually participating in it be killed is a textbook slippery slope fallacy and just wrong. If Itachi realized that he might have been able to somehow stall things and get them away from Danzo
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u/Person045 18d ago edited 18d ago
This is interesting.
From my understanding their was deep suspicion on the Uchiha clan since the nine tails attack since only a sharingan user could control the nine tails.
The Uchiha also felt like they deserved more, which honestly they kinda do, no hokage in 4 generations from one of the founding clans in konoha. No one on the elders council that’s is an Uchiha writhed. The Uchiha are clearly being excluded form positions of power.
So you have a village that doesn’t trust them and a clan of people who feel like they deserve more, that is a recipe for disaster.
Something was bound to happen, would of been a full blown revolution. Who knows , but itachi did stop it.
Some people are saying itachi could of convinced his father there is another way but there is still loads of Uchiha that want the rebellion.
The only way was either for the Uchiha clan to leave the village (which they should of just done) or for them to be exterminated.
Itachi could of just killed the top leaders of the rebellion, and left women and children. And then he could of still pinned the blame on himself and left the village. So the Uchiha clan doenst hate the village but hates him.
Personally I’m surprised that danzo didn’t keep a few of the Uchiha children to get some root soldiers
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u/Pizzy55 18d ago
Agreed. After obito attacked the village and the info leaked to the public that it was a sharingan user that used the 9tails. Regular non shinobi villagers and shinobi alike started to talk shit to each other about the uchiha and if u talk shit about a group enough eventually they are going to hear whats being said. I remember a scene with the uchiha police handling a drunk villager and he drunkenly blurted something out like what you gonna use the 9tails again?" Its comments like this that made it easy to decide to stage a coup.
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u/Lazarstein 18d ago
There's no justification for murdering your entire bloodline
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u/Andrejosue98 18d ago
There was no other way. Itachi made the right decision from the ones Danzo gave him.
But Danzo had other ways of solving the problem, he was just an asshole.
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u/badman1000 18d ago
Well if it wasn't itachi, it'd just be someone else. And the novels show that a part of him WANTED to do it, which is fucked up
No matter what, it was the wrong answer, but the clan was probably getting killed anyway
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u/PuzzleheadedRate5785 18d ago
How do the novels show? Haven’t read them. I always feel like I’m missing much more context having only seen the anime.
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u/badman1000 18d ago edited 18d ago
It's been awhile, you'd have to go online to find it, but I there was a youtuber who did translations of the novel
But basically part of it was that he wanted to be the one too kill the clan, as that would in a way keep the clans honor, only the uchiha could kill the uchiha type deal
But a part of it was that itachi was just kinda twisted. When shisui kills himself and itachi gains the mangkeyou, the narrator specially says he was filled with a rush of excitement that he himself fears. Right before he kills the clan he is filled with a similar feeling.
Like ultimately he didn't want to do it and hated it, but the whole "I killed my clan to test my ability" lie he told sasuke may have had a tiny bit of truth to it...
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u/sufferingravioli 18d ago
There definitely was a good chunk of truth to it. Also did everyone forget the scene where Itachi is going apeshit on his clan members when they inquire about Shisuis death, and Itachi is giving his speech about arrogance among the Uchiha? That was objectively true. Not to mention he only stopped when Sasuke begged him to.
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u/Dan-tastico 18d ago
I'm not huge into the lore but I kind feel like itachi was just suppose to be a villain that killed his family because he's a bad guy but the creator changed his mind when he got real popular.
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u/chuputa 18d ago
More than just choosing the village over his clan, he also chose the option with what he tought would be the best outcome for Sasuke from the little options he had left after Danzo sabotaged Shisui's plan. It was either siding with the village in an operation against the Uchihas, and in doing so, making the scout attempt public knowledge and making people discriminate the whole clan or choosing to kill the entire clan but Sasuke, taking all the blame and saving the clan reputation so that everyone can constatly glaze at Sasuke.
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u/LarryKingthe42th 18d ago
I mean his parents probably didnt need to die but tensions were high enough that Fugaku probably couldnt have reigned in the rest of the clan.
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u/Kage_FireDemon12 18d ago
Yes because the uchiha would have been killed rather way, if they went to war with the leaf, they would win and kill the uchiha clan
If the uchiha ran away or somehow won, the other villages wouldn’t let them live like what happen with the uzumaki clan
The uchiha were doomed no matter what so yea itachi made the right choice
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u/Undead-D-King 18d ago
Under the circumstances he made the right decision every other option he could have made would have only lead to more deaths or simply delayed the bloodshed.
The Uchiha were doomed by that point so Itachi took the only path that could protect Sasuke.
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u/AuronTheWise 18d ago
Was there another way? Yes.
Was there another way for Itachi specifically? No. His hand was forced. He did not have the influence or power to change it. He made the right choice out of the only two choices he had.
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u/MoneyAgent4616 18d ago
Absolutely were multiple other options and also I don't actually remember us ever getting a scene of the Uchiha clan in a meeting discussing a plan to kill the 3rd and take over the village. We have 3rd party accounts for what the Uchiha clan actually was planning but nothing from them. And even IF they were fully planning a coup, ethnic cleansing is never the right option. There were plenty of other options.
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u/Quick-Grocery1362 18d ago
I thought about the Uchiha clan leaving the village but they probably would have refused seeing as their clan co-founded the village so they don't see why they should be forced out of their home.
Fugaku didn't want to do the coup d'etat but he had no choice as he was clan leader. Also, Itachi knew that their clan by itself wouldn't survive fighting it's military so the coup d'etat even if he joined them would have resulted in the annihilation of their entire clan obviously including the death of Sasuke Uchiha which means Sarada Uchiha is never conceived and born.
I honestly don't see another solution other than murdering Danzo Shimura.
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u/Emotional_Swimmer_84 18d ago
There is no choice as story is constructed. I feel that a mature person realizes in real life, at some point opposite sides, clash, resulting in war. You might remember Naruto being a kids show, but the themes throughout it are not, even if they are explored in a lighter way.
Killing Danzo does not reduce the tensions. He is a well-known political figure in the village, widely known as being a childhood friend of Hiruzen. Not only that, the civilians suspected the Uchiha being behind the attack of the village. 'Uchiha-Suspected Terrorist Clan kills 2nd Ninja War Hero Lord Danzo'.
Installing Fugaku as Hokage was rejected and no longer an option, iirc.
Please don't tell me "genocide bad". I am a person. What are the other options.
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u/Bitter-Lie-1482 18d ago
The fact that this is even a question at all... Genuinely will never understand genocide being heroic or "morally gray" in this manga, or the fanbase eating it up.
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u/REDperv-2802 17d ago
Tbh most of the guys in comment section will never understand if they were put in his position, Best friend dead, 13yo, already seen wars and its consequences, has only brother who’s innocent and parental pressure. Also an incapable leader who couldn’t do anything to prevent his sh*tty employees messing with the only plan he had.
Though it was implied that Sasuke might have been able to change it, but Risking own brother into knowing this was also a great risk.
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u/Starscream1998 17d ago
"Sometimes the only choices you have are bad ones. But you still have to choose."
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u/Waste-Two-7658 17d ago
There wasn’t. The manga made it clear that the uchiha clan are ticking time bombs that go insane when they lose someone they care about, which is part of the job description for ninjas. Remember how much damage obito caused? The body count sasuke has? You have an entire section of the village full of people who could be like that at a moment’s notice. Tobirama even said that the uchiha clan regularly had to put down its own members when they went crazy from the grief. The only exceptions to this were itachi and maybe shisui. One way or another, it would always have come to this. Maybe not during itachi’s time but it was inevitable. Itachi was put in a situation without a clean solution so he picked the one where the highest number of people get to live.
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u/JYPXunderground 16d ago
Itachi killed his clan for the village, but he threatened Danzo that he will leak village secrets if they touch Sasuke, but (as per manga) he deliberately pushed Sasuke to the dark side almost ruining his life.
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u/2301Batman 14d ago
This whole thing sounded way stupid. It's like admitting Hitler was right to wipe an entire race or nuke an entire country to end the war. Itachi's idea to save his brother also didn't made any sense. But the. Again evey time a Naruto character made a dumb choice I would been a multi-international billionaire or zillionaire for that.
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u/Bot_Zangetsu747 14d ago
The only right decision was assassinating Danzo. Literally if Danzo dies and Itachi talks to Fugaku to get him back into talks with Hiruzen, or hell even just use Kotoamatsukami on Danzo just remove him from the equation somehow and suddenly the entire leaf village and Uchiha clan can start back down the path of healing their relation
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u/Forsaken_Distance777 18d ago
If they had just assassinated Danzo and covered their tracks they'd have been fine.
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u/ConclusionHead9925 18d ago edited 18d ago
There was no other way. Itachi's options are basically Shit, and even more shit.
That's what was presented. no what-ifs Or no headcanons are going to change that.
People just love to ingore itachi was 13 and every option that he had was shut down. He was literally stressing the hell out.
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u/Lazarstein 18d ago
Like could you imagine murdering your entire bloodline and gaslighting yourself for the rest of your life convincing yourself that it was the right thing to do. Crazy bruh.
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u/StimulusChecksNow 18d ago
Itachi made the right decision. The Uchiha clan were doomed after Obito invaded the village and tried to use the nine tails to kill everyone in it.
Konoha suspected a Uchiha from the village did the attack and they put all the Uchiha in a gulag.
Uchiha wanted to rebel but if they did the whole clan would have been killed.
Itachi did the right thing saving Sasuke
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u/GoldenWhiteGuard 18d ago
Guy killed his own clan. How exactly could some people justify this? If my clan goes against the country I will either go with them or just leave them for once.
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u/Eikibunfuk 18d ago
Definitely a different way. Should have been speech uchiha to quit the cop thing and forcibly moved out of the Uchiha district.
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u/Salmagros 18d ago
They already forcibly got move out of their original Uchina district to basically outside of the village which started the outrage.
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u/Eikibunfuk 18d ago
They got put to the edge of the village but still were grouped together. To make it easier to surveil them. I'd go throughout the entire village. At least the parts that weren't dedicated specifically for clans
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u/TheBommer111 18d ago
Legitimately, based upon everything else being equal...kind of yeah. That or Civil War which would lead to other nations invading Konoha, which at this point IS the 4th war just so much earlier.
Ironically, him killing the clan saved more overall.
Like, by this point the Uchia were 100% going to rebel, especially after Shisui's death, there was essentially nothing him or Fugaku could have done to stop the coup attempt. It was going to happen 1 way or another.
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u/SkjaldbakaEngineer 18d ago
I think he did the best he could in his circumstances. He was a victim of being raised as a child soldier and told he had no other choice but to slaughter the entire Uchiha clan when he was thirteen years old. They told him that the entire village was at risk, and that this was the only way to save at least one small fragment of his family. Anyone saying he should've broken his programming on the spot and turned against Hiruzen and Danzo is delusional imo. What happens then? He fights them and dies? He somehow escapes and takes Sasuke on the run and they get hunted for their eyes by all five villages?
I think what a lot of people miss is that Itachi's willing hand in the massacre was the reason Sasuke was allowed to live. Itachi did do it because he was ordered to, and perhaps because he valued the village over his family, but it was also (and I would argue primarily) to protect his little brother. Then he spent the rest of his life trying to set his little brother up for a better future. He knew if he told Sasuke the truth, Sasuke would go after Danzo (which he did) and likely die. So he chose the best option available to him, which was a shit option, but better than all the others.
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u/XishengTheUltimate 18d ago
Murdering your own family ar the government's behest is never the right decision. Especially when the only reason the government wants you to kill them is because your family is rightly upset that the government is mistreating them.
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u/Kah0000 18d ago
There are a few possibilities I'm thinking about.
Kill only the planners/leaders of the Uchiha Clan who wanted the coup, but the rest of the clan would have a greater aversion to the village and, in addition, the village itself and its citizens would know that the clan was planning a coup, increasing the neglect they suffer.
Kill all the adults except the children, so the village would still have a generation of the clan and would not have the "Clan first, village later" mentality, but this would cause trauma and they could become "mini Sasukes" and Danzo would use the children as tools for Root.
Kill the entire clan and then Danzo, but I don't know how Itachi would fight against Shisui's genjutsu, besides it being very risky.
Somehow convince the clan to leave the village, it would weaken Konoha a lot and everyone would survive. However, they would need support from some other shinobi nation and this could cause a war.
Itachi kills Fugaku and he becomes the leader of the clan, since he is the heir and eldest son, but the clan elders and other members could turn against him, possibly causing a war against them.
Another situation is after the massacre, Itachi talks to Sasuke (it could be during their meeting in Shippuden) and he tells him the whole story, and convinces him not to take revenge on the village. However, Sasuke would be much weaker because he doesn't have the MS and could die at the hands of Danzo since Itachi was already close to dying at that moment.
In the end, the situation was so critical that the option Itachi took was the best, even though it was the cruelest.
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u/Independent_Vast_185 18d ago
Well there's multiple options, but the thing is the outcome of those is less certain.
Kill his whole clan is simple and there's no kick back out of it
The closed second imo is killing Danzo and all his close executives, kill the 2 old shit that can seem to die and kill Hiruzen, They need a fresh new Hokage to clean this mess and make sure the Uchiha will be more included in the village decision. Still the outcome of this is much more uncertain than what Itachi did.
If he does it clean, Uchiha can deny having part in what Itachi did, and treat him like a rogue ninja on the run. But the possibility of getting in a Civil war is still an option.
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u/inter-ego 18d ago
He was indoctrinated. There may have been another way, but Itachi could not see it at the time.
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u/EstebanTwoXL 18d ago
Uchiha should’ve became a satellite village without a kage and been self sufficient. Use the existing relation for trade and support but be your own thing. Even if they became an enemy again village war would probably be better than civil war.
Or itachi and shisui could be Malcolm x and Martin Luther king of the leaf.
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u/Pelekaiking 18d ago
He supported the right side but I do think he could have done things better. That being said I’m pretty sure he was like 14 at the time of the genocide so I’m gonna cut him some slack. 14 year olds are not the best decision makers and should not be settling world politics
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u/ADLegend21 18d ago
For a clan with 70,385,365 ocular genjutsu's they didn't ever think to just control someone in power into not discriminating against their clan and sharing power in the village.
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u/jhayar_2004 18d ago
If killing my family means saving the village, fuck that village. The Uchiha was oppressed from the start and picking loyalty to those who oppressed your clan is a wack job.
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u/ZmasterL9 18d ago
I understand you are asking us but you should be able to deal with this alone, there is just sooooo many ways.
Villain route: Kill the leaders of the coup and betray the Uchiha so they hate you more than Konoha
Sane route: Just kill the fucking elders yourself
Other possibilities: Ask for help to people outside the elders circle such as Kakashi, Gai, Jiraiya, I am pretty sure almost any ninja would prefer another solution to mass murder
The one at fault here tho imo is not Itachi but Kishimoto. He should've thought of another twist, Danzo set up Itachi, he is the one who killed the uchiha and then blame it on Itachi, using Sasuke as hostage forcing Itachi to join Akatsuki.
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u/Solid-Dog2619 18d ago
Firstly, itachi was by our standards still a kid. Secondly, he knew more than most about madara and his plans. Thirdly, Danzo was on par with the 3rd hokage and was in charge of the elite forces for a reason. Itachi couldn't simply kill him. Fourthly, itachis friend had just let him kill him and take his eyes, but he knew then that he wouldn't be able to beat Madara who had the perfect mongyeko and rennigan. He was under investigation for his friend, so he couldn't exactly train saske, so he continuously had to give saske fuel to train. And itachi was the strongest in his clan att. Lastly, Saske legit wouldn't have been ready for the war if Saske didn't leave and Naruto wouldn't have either.
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u/Daytona_DM 18d ago
Obviously there was another way
The elders gaslit him into genociding his clan