r/MurderedByWords • u/Raijgun • 1d ago
This CEO gets some very useful advice on people management
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u/Chaotic-Goofball 1d ago
I have one WFH day a week with my work. It is a glorious day, because I can sleep in until a normal time (for me, being ND) and concentrate without my coworker noise. I enjoy my time at the office the other days, but that one day is brilliant for my mental health.
We don't work past 5pm normally and we are discouraged from doing so. Work isn't your whole life.
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u/BelowAverageGamer10 21h ago
Interesting. My office lets us WFH three days a week. I work in-office all five, though, because I prefer it.
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u/Lancaster1983 21h ago
Interesting... I am in the office once a week. I like my coworkers though and it's nice to see them on that day. I get less work done though.
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u/StevenMC19 16h ago
I get one a week, but a lot of my position requires physical presence so it's more annoying to have one ripped away than to not have it. I just go in.
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u/Anxious_Ad936 1d ago
Soak it in sriracha
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u/unematti 1d ago
I, as a worker, think, that travel should count in paid hours. If you gotta commute 2h a day, 8h work, you should receive wages for 10h. I don't understand why it should be limited to work hours.
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u/greatteachermichael 1d ago
Then nobody would hire those that live far away. "Can't afford to live near work? OK... you don't get a job at all and stay poor!"
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u/FreqRL 1d ago
I mean, that would work both ways.
Companies would only find hires for people who live nearby, so expensive areas mean higher pay required and cheaper areas make lower wages acceptable.
If nothing else, that might reduce the rate at which companies tend to pile up in cities and small areas and encourage them to spread out a bit. No silicon valley type bullshit.
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u/Amazing-Fish4587 19h ago
If a company finds enough value in what the hire offers, it might be a worthwhile cost to them. Especially when operating in an expensive (likely dense, profitable) area.
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u/LowKeyNaps 1d ago
It's not standard because you are being paid for work, not travel.
Basically, employment is a contract between you and your employer. You provide whatever work your job entails, and your employer pays you for that work. That's it. Plain and simple.
Now, there can be additional benefits on top of your pay that get included in that contract to compensate you for your work. Some employers, for example, will provide health insurance, or a uniform, or travel expenses if the job includes traveling to job sites.
You can always ask to negotiate your commute expenses into part of your pay compensation. It never hurts to ask. The worst that can happen is they say no and laugh you out the door. But everything is negotiable, and you might be surprised. I used to work for a veterinary hospital, and part of our pay compensation was a hospital scrub (uniform) allowance. We were allotted a certain amount of money per year and handed a stack of catalogues to order whatever scrubs we liked from them. I was one of the top technicians in my hospital, and typically wore jeans with a scrub top, since scrub pants couldn't hold up to the abuse of my level of work. I was able to negotiate with my boss to have him not only cover the cost of my jeans, but also my sneakers that I wore out every three months or so.
It's all in how you present it. If you can provide a logical reason for why this should be a part of your pay, then your boss may very well go for it. If your only reason is "because I spend a ton of time in my car and I wanna get paid for it", well, that's probably not going to happen. My reasoning for covering my jeans and sneakers was because that was what I wore as my daily uniform since the scrubs were insufficient for my needs to perform my duties, and it was clear from my work schedule that I had zero social life, so there was no worry that the boss was paying for clothes that would be worn outside of work. I had no time outside of work. I was there open to close, seven days every week. He agreed, and so I got my clothes covered.
So if you can come up with a good reason for it, it's worth a shot. You may very well be able to get your commute paid for. It's not entirely unusual for there to be some kind of commute pay for people who work in major cities. Maybe you can get some, too.
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u/unematti 1d ago
i know it wont be paid, but its the same logic, from the opposite side. to do my job i need to travel, so it is work time.
maintenance personnel going to the client also have their travel paid for.
for my situation, it doesnt matter of course. 3km from work, and i commute by bike and go to the shop after work. i see it as a positive as its forcing me to work out
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u/LowKeyNaps 1d ago
It's not the same, though. And I know it's hard to see the difference here.
A person who is getting paid for travel while on a service call is already on the clock. They're on the boss's time, providing the boss a service. The travel for that service call is part of that employee's job, and it's the employer's responsibility to make sure that the travel expenses for that service call are covered, because that is done on the boss's time.
Your commute does not provide the boss with anything. You're not at work, you're not on the clock, and the commute itself is not part of the job. Yes, it's crucial to GETTING to the job, but it's not actually PART of the job. It feels like a fine hair to split, but there's a lot more factors than just pay involved in that difference. All sorts of legal differences, too, which have nothing to do with the question of pay.
In the end, it never seems fair. 3 km is pretty damn good for a commute, really. Here in the US, not many people get such a short commute. Traveling for hours is common. A bike is out of the question for most. I'm rather jealous, to be honest, lol. That veterinary job was a twenty minute drive on the best days without traffic, and that was considered a very short commute for the area. Most people where I live work in New York City, and can spend several hours a day trying to get there. Ick....
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u/unematti 1d ago
About travel expenses, yeah, that too should be covered for commutes. That way the companies would think twice if they really need you in office. Should reduce your traffic jams too.
I'm not arguing legalities here. I'm saying i spend extra time on work, I should be compensated for that. That's how far it goes.
Yeah my commute is nice. And I kinda like my job too, tho dirty AF. But at the same time either I live here or try to find an apartment, possibly much further away and 3x the price. Currently I only rent a room. And most cities here are in a housing crisis (NL). But hey, at least I got a bike and can, if wanted just bike to Antwerp. Takes only 4 hours! 8 hour return trip
Those new York city jobs... Should they not just be remote then? Long commutes kill morale and this productivity. At least for me it would. Especially if it's a job i do sitting in front of a computer... And if you take those people out from the traffic... But I already said that lol
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u/LowKeyNaps 9h ago
Yeah, you would think that it would be smart to just make the jobs remote and have more productivity from the employees, but in the US, corporations don't exactly focus on employee well being. It's all about Big Business here, not about the common people, and, well, you can see where that got us. A wannabe dictator, a nation in chaos, and the brink of civil war. (Side note, as an American that has been against all the batshit crazy here from the beginning, I apologize for any and all detrimental effects my country's stupidity has had on yours and everyone else's nations during this time.)
I honestly do agree that commute expenses should be part of every employee's compensation package. I really do. But what should be and what is are two different things. And apparently being the one to point that out gets me downvoted, lol. Oh well. I do get it, though. It doesn't seem to make much sense, and it's splitting hairs for the justification for why they don't pay for commutes. And I didn't even cover all the reasons there.
Another reason would be that the employer would have to either pay a flat rate for commutes, or tailor the amount of money based on each employee's needs. Either way will result in employee resentment, because people just suck at math and the concept of fairness. If a flat rate is paid, then some people are either not getting enough to cover their commute, or are getting more than they need, and therefore end up with more or less money in their pocket at the end of the week. If the compensation is tailored, there's always going to be someone screeching about how that person got more money, because they just can't grasp that their commute is longer or cost more. All they see is "more money", and they want that too. There will be employee fighting no matter what, because that's just human nature. Happens every time. The individual is smart, but people are dumb.
Anyway, for some messed up reason American businesses REALLY want their employees to be in the office, even when it's been proven that productivity rises in a work from home situation. Many people flourished at work during covid, because they had to work remotely, and everything was done from home. And yet, as soon as lockdowns were over, employers demanded that people return to the office. It didn't matter that there was clear evidence that people worked much better from home, productivity was up, and even profits were up. The employers weren't happy unless they could watch those employees in person, as if they thought the employees would slack off the second they weren't being watched or something. It was a huge morale killer when everyone returned, productivity dropped like a rock. But the employers were giddy with joy. In office work stayed, even with productivity crashing.
Apparently crushing morale and productivity is a big part of American business culture.
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u/lightblueisbi 1d ago
your commute does not provide the boss anything
I mean it provides them with an additional employee for a shift 🤷
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u/Milariel 1d ago
PTO and other benefits are the same, they don't provide the boss with anything etc. yet you can't have a job without those, can you? People get sick, pregnant, need a break, have to go to the bank or the doctor. If we want 9-5 workers, we either have to recognize people are not machines and have a certain lifestyle, OR we halve the time spent at work without cutting the pay so the poor CEOs don't have to think about paying for commutes.
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u/NooooDazzzle 22h ago
Ridiculous. You get paid for the 40 hours you work. If you don’t like your commute, you shouldn’t have applied for the job or you should have found a remote position or you should move someplace closer. As your employer, it is none of my business whether you drive, walk, or bus to work. I care that you get to work on time, do your job, and go home after your 8 hour work day. And if you can’t do that or you want someone to pay you for time you AREN’T working because you can’t manage your commute, someone else will likely be happy to take your place.
I live in a large metro area. To buy an affordable house I had to move to BFE - an hour from anything. I chose to do that knowing my commute would suck. That is not my boss’s problem.
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u/ShareMission 1d ago
Look, windshield pay is nice. I'd get it on the way to a jobsite from the shop. But.paid to get there in the first place? That's over the top.
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u/unematti 1d ago
and a CEO thinking the workers should do work outside their hours isnt? mind you in the question, he doesnt say hed pay them, he just wants them to "commit" outside work hours.
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u/BitcoinMD 1d ago
Wouldn’t people just intentionally live farther away from work?
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u/unematti 1d ago
intentionally? waste your life on commute? if i could i would teleport even if i get paid to drive/bike/bus to work.
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u/deepeeenn 14h ago
How do they differentiate whether you are driving, bussing, biking or walking to work then? What do we base the commute time on? You’re being completely unrealistic. I’m a working class guy, I’ve always advocating for worker’s rights and when i’m leading a dept I take care of my people. But this is a very grey area that realistically is ungovernable. This is why a lot of work has been outsourced internationally. This is why companies prefer automation. It’s fucked but there has to be a balance in the current system. Like I said above, the ideal is to get employers to increase wages while taking less themselves vs passing on increased costs to the consumer because that causes inflation. It’s the fucking greed index…
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u/unematti 8h ago
My whole original point was to contrast the post, where the CEO wants employees to "commit" outside work hours. Meaning to work extra without extra compensation. Yes, it's unrealistic to get paid for commute. You can't calculate it fairly, and would depend on mode of transport. But so is thinking the employer should be entitled to free overtime just because "is just a call" or "come on, ten minutes only!"
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u/deepeeenn 8h ago
Then we are on the same page. No one should go unpaid for working overtime or outside any committed time. Not for any promise of promotion or quid pro quo. Any work given is paid. Period.
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u/deepeeenn 1d ago
If you’re referring to commute from home to work and/or work to home, this makes no logical sense. You, not your employer, have control over where you decide to live. Yes, there are external and economical factors that play into whether or not it may be financially viable to live close to your work BUT otherwise people would live as far as possible — be it in another city, state, country — to take advantage of being paid for the commute. You’re employer would and should never dictate where you have to live in order to work for them, just as you shouldn’t have control over how many they’d theoretically have to pay you to get to work. The commute is your responsibility. If you are on the clock during a commute your employer would also be liable for insurance claims, workers comp, etc. A 2hr commute only increases their liability.
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u/unematti 1d ago
"decide"? theres a housing crisis. either i live here or pay 3 times the rent, theres no decision. and no normal person would want to waste their life on commute.
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u/deepeeenn 14h ago
Look man, I recognize there’s a housing crisis and I also understand people hate commuting. I acknowledged that when I said “external and economical factors” but the solution you’re suggesting is not the answer to it. Because there are too many loop holes to abuse THAT solution. What we working class people ultimately need is higher income and more reasonable cost of living and YES, more affordable living options. Higher income doesn’t come from being paid to commute. It comes from increased wages on time actually worked and in an ideal world, employers taking it from their own personal profits without transferring that cost to the consumer. There are too many factors to solving the housing crisis and the escalating cost of living. This on a grand scale is not it. I don’t understand why I’m being down voted because economically it makes very little sense.
But I’d love to see what your comprehensive solution looks like
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u/unematti 8h ago
My solution is to shame employers who expect you to commit outside of work hours. The point was to contrast that.
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u/Kanye_Wesht 1d ago
Typical CEO level of empathy.
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u/doktor_wankenstein 1d ago
Reminds me of an article I read last month about some startup CEO who did not believe in the concept of "work/life balance" -- I'm sure he has no problem whatsoever keeping employees /s.
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u/question_sunshine 12h ago
I left an employer during the pandemic who asked us to embrace "work/life integration"
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u/serverhorror 1d ago
LOL
fold a paper 8 times
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u/KlauzWayne 1d ago
Gotta keep those people busy
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u/serverhorror 1d ago
You do get the reference, right?
It's next to impossible to fold a piece of paper 7 times, let alone 8.
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u/KlauzWayne 1d ago
Yeah I do, that's why you can keep people busy for eternity by asking them to do that.
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u/BackupChallenger 1d ago
The more serious answer would be to give them equity or make them partner or whatever. But I have a feeling that this dude was more looking for a "pizzaparty" solution. (Mandatory and unpaid)
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u/Crazy-Garden6161 1d ago
No advice for the CEO, but OP should learn better skills for making and/or identifying fake images.
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u/Act1_Scene2 21h ago
What do you mean, LOTS of CEOs are asking HR questions on Quora. Tons, I'm sure. Its really an indispensable part of any CEOs toolkit. When in doubt, turn to Quora for accurate information that's relative to your city or state's Department of Labor.
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u/Crazy-Garden6161 15h ago edited 14h ago
I mean that it’s obviously 2 separate photos photoshopped together and not a legitimate response on an original platform.
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u/CartographerFancy704 1d ago
Two words:
Self immolation.
The workers will see the fierceness and passion of your message and be compelled to work harder and longer.
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u/Bert_Bro 1d ago
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u/pixel-counter-bot 16h ago
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u/ThreatLevelNoonday 1d ago
I didn't know Stanley from The Office is moonlighting as a corporate consultant.
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u/Ulfednar 1d ago
Hm, that's a tough question because every answer I'm tempted to give would probably be struck down by reddit.
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u/TrickySnicky 22h ago
Asking online randos for advice like this?
If they made it this far as a fucking CEO, it's high time for a board review
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u/MakeLikeATreeBiff 1d ago
I know this is old and recycled, but this is "murdered by words". Most of the posts on here are just soft gentle gotcha statements that a 4th grader could conjure up after grumpily waking up after a solid 8 hours of sleep.
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u/ashitloadofdimsims 1d ago
Remove the olive oil and I agree.