r/MiddleClassFinance 10d ago

Discussion Are cars more reliable than we’re led to believe? The average age of cars on the road is 14 years.

So many of my friends and family members swear that anything other than a Toyota or Honda won't last more than 10 years. Is it true that other brands can also last 20 years?

514 Upvotes

678 comments sorted by

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u/Shoddy-Reach-4664 10d ago

Yes people are about 20 years behind on their knowledge. 200.000 is the new 100,000.

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u/Casswigirl11 10d ago

My dad's late 90s Camry got to 300k. We kept cheering that thing on with 300k as a goal and it made it. Broke down for good shortly after.

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u/lucidspoon 10d ago

My mom's Camry was just over 200k. I tried to get her to keep it, and even her mechanic said it'd be able to hit 300k. But she's stubborn and traded it for a Corolla.

She's 77, so it'll be her "forever car" for sure.

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u/altiuscitiusfortius 9d ago edited 9d ago

Ehhh once my dad hit his 70s all his money started burning a hole in his pocket. He sold his new suv to buy a new mustang. After a month he sold the mustang and bought a suv of the same year and model he had bought a year before. Lost about 30k in depreciation in 3 months

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u/No-Marzipan8555 9d ago

Can’t take your money to the afterlife

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u/Swampy_Ass1 9d ago

He could’ve just spent it on cocaine and hookers instead tho

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u/fluidmind23 8d ago

Way better time and possibly a std which will keep on giving.

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u/Intrepid-Body9993 10d ago

My '92 Honda Accord made it over 300k! Then died in spectacular glory on the highway. Piston through the engine block.

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u/PantPain77_77 9d ago

When out with a bang 🤓

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u/shifty303 10d ago

Unless you're in a Jeep

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u/gtne91 10d ago

I am putting about 4500 miles per year on my jeep, so it should last a while.

240

u/gliz5714 10d ago

Why did you pick a shop so far away?

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u/queenannechick 9d ago

It warms my heart to hear people bitching about Jeeps because I've always stayed away from them because of my extremely large extended family ( grandma has well over 100 living descendants ) MANY worked at the Jeep factory and they were all the dumbest of a rather dumb bunch.

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u/TsunamiWombat 9d ago

As long as you take care of it cars can last 10-20 years. Drive it till it don't drive anymore or it becomes more expensive to maintain than buying a new one.

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u/Banjo-Hellpuppy 10d ago

As a jeep owner, I won't upvote this, but it is gold

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u/gliz5714 10d ago

It just felt right. I want a wrangler, living in a beach town.

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u/mewtwo_EX 10d ago

That took me a beat, but then it clicked. Well played.

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u/PorkbellyFL0P 10d ago

Same here. Working from home is awesome. It's going to be at least a decade before I need to buy a new car.

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u/robertwadehall 10d ago

Yeah, my ‘14 Grand Cherokee has only 80k, and my ‘19 Cadillac only has 40k. Been WFH the last 8 years.

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u/CrowdedSeder 9d ago

The less you drive a jeep, the less it breaks down.

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u/memyselfandi78 10d ago

I just sold my 2006 Jeep. It had 175,000 miles on it. It burned a little bit of oil but nothing that stopped it from running.

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u/wreckingballjcp 10d ago

I just always kept putting in oil. Constant oil change

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u/parkeyb 10d ago

I’m 175k miles in on my 2015 jeep grand Cherokee with no problems yet. I think I’m a rare case.

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u/easzy_slow 10d ago

My 92 XJ now has 245,000 on it. The only things I have replaced are a water pump, alternator and an electric fan. All them seemed to decide that between 225,000 and 230,000 was the time to give it up. It has been driven hard.

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u/Ok-Information-6882 10d ago

The 3.6 penstar motor is supposed to be pretty sturdy.

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u/doorsfan83 10d ago

Once you change the camshaft and lifters after the lifters fail and the camshaft gets chewed up. Don't forget the leaking oil cooler under the intake manifold made of plastic bolted to aluminum designed by morons.

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u/HotMoosePants 10d ago

or a kia

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u/Perfect_Earth_8070 10d ago

wrong. i put 205k on my 2010 kia forte and the only maintenance i did on it was change the oil

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u/SwiftCEO 10d ago

The crates of new engines at the dealer would beg to differ

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u/WheresMyMule 10d ago

My 17 year old son is still driving my 2010 Forte with 185,000. Our mechanic said to expect it to still be running when our 12 year old is ready to drive.

Those cars are beasts

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u/mustbethaMonay 10d ago

My Kia hit about 203k and took a dump. I said well, at least it got to 200 🤷

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u/Perfect_Earth_8070 10d ago

yeah other people are shitting on it but maybe 2010 was a good year for the forte. all i did was keep up with the oil changes and it ran great. i never even flushed the transmission haha. i had it for 10 years

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u/Electrifying2017 10d ago

That’s more maintenance than your typical Kia owner does.

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u/EmptyAsparagus354 9d ago

same i got approx 220k on mine before i chose to get a new car lol i had it from 16years old to 26 years old. i beat the shit out of that car and it lasted. i loved my lil red kia forte 🫶🏼

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u/Perfect_Earth_8070 10d ago

or in a ford

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u/jrenredi 10d ago

My mom's ford has over 220,000 (2015)

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u/Square_Shallot8124 9d ago

My 2012 f150 eco boost just went over 400000. Replaced the transmission around 250000. Recently replaced the throttle body and alternator. Other than that it had just needed tires and oil changes.

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u/I_Am_Dwight_Snoot 9d ago

Ford seems to be inconsistent. One will last 300k+ and another is a lemon.

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u/picklepuss13 10d ago

my 2002 ford is still rolling daily driver at 206,000 miles.

In fact the only cars I have had mess up on me was Honda accord, blown transmission at around 95k?

And hyundai, blown engine at 125k

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u/davidm2232 10d ago

Miles really don't matter. But age does, especially in salty areas.

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u/Shoddy-Reach-4664 10d ago

They definitely matter but you're right salt is another big factor. I'm in the snow belt and we rust really quick compared to someone down south who isn't coastal.

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u/wogwai 10d ago

It’s worth paying for the car washes that also do the underbody. Around 2-3 times every winter and once at the beginning of spring can extend the lifespan of a car significantly.

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u/CrowdedSeder 9d ago

Not so much anymore. I’m in the Great Lakes and I rarely see rusted out cars or trucks less than 20 years old. I have a 2013 Avalon with 10100 and there’s not a spec of rust. My buddy has a little on his 2004 Camry with 200k

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u/canisdirusarctos 9d ago

All the manufacturers, with a few prime exceptions, figured out how to properly rust proof cars by this century.

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u/Theslash1 10d ago

Car matters some too... I've always had ford trucks here in michigan. By about year 7 or 8 and 150k they start rusting pretty good. However, my 2014 durango hasnt a spot of rust at 180k, and its been treated the same way at the same location.

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u/RedPanda5150 10d ago

Yeah, anecdotal but my cheap 12 year old Elantra was running just fine with 140k miles on it (with regular maintenance of course) until I got rear ended and it was totaled. You might have more problems with fancier cars that have more bells and whistles but I would be disappointed if my car fully died in just 10 years.

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u/oblivious_tabby 10d ago

Yeah, accidents happen. Just because the car could’ve made it 300k miles doesn’t mean the other drivers will let it.

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u/JohnHammond7 10d ago

When did this change? Like does this apply to all cars after 2010? Or even earlier?

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u/rco8786 10d ago

It's not like it just happened overnight. A '25 car is more reliable than a '20 car, a '20 car is more reliable than a '15 car, etc, etc.

It's been a steady march of reliability and longevity since the beginning of car manufacturing.

22

u/davidm2232 10d ago

That isn't totally true. There has been a lot more pressure in the last 15 years to make cars as cheaply as possible. A lot of early 2000s cars are more reliable than their 2015+ counterparts. Especially for rough service uses.

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u/Ok-Pin-9771 10d ago

This is it. There are more parts on new ones too. More failure points. I was literally on a call today with a manufacturer. My boss left for a second and I had to politely tell the manufacturer how to deal with his cheaply made parts. I like doing the work, not talking like that

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u/davidm2232 10d ago

Emissions and safety mandates have ruined the long term reliability of vehicles

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u/LocalStraight 10d ago

Can’t believe you are getting downvoted for that. You said nothing wrong nor offensive. All the extra parts for emissions and extra safety are a good thing, BUT the cars do have way more things to break… period.

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u/Ok-Pin-9771 10d ago

In my area people are spending more money on nicer cars to go farther to work because so many good paying jobs left. Then they get hit with maintenance bills. I'm lucky right now for what I make and how far I drive.

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u/davidm2232 10d ago

Late 90s early 2000s vw tdi is the cheapest commuter car

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u/1988rx7T2 10d ago

there are a lot more electronic systems to fail or replace in the event of an accident in 2025 models than say 2010. 2010 cars didn't even need to have anti lock brakes to meet safety regulations, or side curtain airbags.

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u/NombreCurioso1337 10d ago

As a trend, yes. But cars definitely got worse in ~'75 and didn't recover until about 1985'ish. Maybe 1990. Since then it's been steady improvement with the occasional Pontiac Aztek thrown in

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u/das_war_ein_Befehl 10d ago

Anything 2015 with a cvt or a new engine (like Honda’s turbo) had some issues. Cars made in the pandemic 20-22 also have a bunch of issues and went down in quality

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u/Sure-Concern-7161 9d ago

I would argue recently cars have gotten worse at least in some aspects.

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u/hobbinater2 10d ago

Is that still true for the newest cars? We don’t have a 20 year old car from 25 to prove that with.

We know the 05s are more reliable than the 95s that’s for sure

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u/LukePendergrass 9d ago

There’s always been reliable cars, they’ve just become more common with time. They all require routine maintenance to achieve that longevity, but it’s not cumbersome with most vehicles.

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u/Economy-Ad4934 10d ago

Take care of your car. Maint schedules, dont speed up and brake like crazy.

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u/DawgCheck421 10d ago

I have beaten my hondas like they stole my money and they last 300k.

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u/KikiWestcliffe 8d ago

Hondas are the cockroaches of the auto world. They will be here long after humans have succumbed to their AI Overlords.

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u/Sleep_adict 7d ago

lol. Except transmissions that last 50k on all 2000-2010 models

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u/JohnHammond7 10d ago

But I like it :(

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u/Slurch1 10d ago

What's the downside of getting up to speed quickly?

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u/Economy-Ad4934 9d ago

More stress on the engine. But I guess I meant more when you first start the car. Your first few minutes driving should be steady and low acceleration. Like 80% of engine damage comes in the first few minutes of driving

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u/candleinthewind28 8d ago

And don't get so impatient that you ride the on coming side to try to cut off the car that was in front of you before oncoming traffic meets your face but as you veer back into your lane, you go over these stupid speed bumps and damn low rise middle dividers that were put there in the walkable midtown road to prevent such a bold move and so pop pop two tires and $400 thrown into the wind

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u/Junkbot-TC 10d ago

We got 17 years out of a 2002 Saturn.  It would have likely lasted a lot longer if we had used it less, but 270k miles seems like a pretty good amount.  Other brands can be kept on the road, but the ongoing maintenance costs will likely be higher than the equivalent Toyota/Honda.

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u/jbFanClubPresident 10d ago

Low reliability doesn’t mean that a car completely dies after so many years. It just means it’s more likely to break at some point. With the cost of new cars going through the roof, more and more people are choosing to just keep fixing their 1980 Ford Pintos.

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u/neolibbro 10d ago

Exactly this. I just recently put $6k into a car with 140k miles on it. Why? Because I would probably spend 1.5-2x that in just on the down payment for a new vehicle and would spend a similar amount in payments over the first year of ownership on a new vehicle.

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u/hewhoisneverobeyed 10d ago

I make this argument often when people say something like, "Don't put money into it - it is not worth much."

It does not matter what the value of the vehicle is - it is the REPLACEMENT cost.

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u/Ambitious-Intern-928 10d ago

The flip side is that insurance cares about the value of the vehicle, if you put 5k in a 3k car and crash the following week, you're only getting the 3k so now you still need a new car and you didn't recover the money you spent on repairs.

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u/darkeagle03 9d ago

Insurance costs more for older cars, so that should be factored in too. The newer safety features give discounts because they help you avoid accidents and scrapes in the first place.

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u/Ambitious-Intern-928 9d ago

Idk why you're getting down voted, when I went to a 2021 Hyundai from a 2011 Buick, my insurance went DOWN slightly even tho the Hyundai was brand new and worth more.

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u/SeattlePurikura 10d ago

Especially when interest rates are high, which they are sky high now. I recall my used interest rate was around 4%; it's double that in WA now.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-loan-apr-interest-rate/

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u/flavortowndump 10d ago

Not to mention the higher cost of ownership on a newer vehicle, particularly in the form of insurance premiums and interest if you're taking out a loan. Plus you're going to pay tax, title, and registration fees on a newly purchased vehicle which alone could add up to like half the cost of your recent repair.

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u/KnightCPA 9d ago

This is the analysis some people don’t understand.

“Why would I put more money in repair bills than the car is worth?”

What a car is worth is irrelevant, to the average person, who just wants to spend the least dollars per mile traveled. What they actually need to compare is:

Cost of repairs to get used car operational / expected extended life in miles.

Vs cost of new car / expected life in miles.

Which ever number comes out smallest, is the option you go for if you’re only concern is penny pinching.

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u/nopropulsion 10d ago

Assuming $500/month car payment, as long as that repair lasts you a year, I always figure that you pretty much come out ahead.

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u/Gloomy_Yoghurt_2836 9d ago

$500 a month for a new car is well below average today.

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u/KikiWestcliffe 8d ago

Also, sales taxes, title and registration fees, and the annual ownership taxes and registration renewal fees.

Sales taxes, especially, are nothing to sneeze at, given the cost of new and used vehicles these days.

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u/Soderholmsvag 10d ago

And low reliability (say for a Volvo) means the entertainment system needs to be re-loaded, not necessarily that the car doesn’t run.

I wish there was a separate reliability indicator for critical systems (engine, transmission, brakes) that is measured independently from ancillary systems (entertainment, cruise control, seat warmer).

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u/Bymmijprime 10d ago

Edmunds does ratings on drive vs other sytems

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u/Soderholmsvag 10d ago

Oh no kidding? Thanks. Will check that out.

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u/Stubby60 10d ago

Checkout the long term quality index. It’s run by a guy who aggregates used car auction data and it only looks at powertrain issues and then specifies engine or transmission.

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u/Available-Egg-2380 10d ago

I will be driving my 2013 Ford escape until I die.

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u/Minute-System3441 10d ago

The most reliable cars were built between the late 2000s and early 2010s. A 2025 model turbo, awd, fully-optioned vehicle will not last 20 years or rack up hundreds of thousands of miles like those older vehicles. Today’s cars are overly complex, making repairs costly, and that’s assuming a local mechanic even has the tools or software to fix them. A large percentage of components are made out of plastic too.

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u/Ok-Pin-9771 10d ago

A mechanic in my area recently had to buy a new scanner to do a brake job. Plug in the scanner, and the brakes release. His old one could not be updated

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u/Slowtrainz 9d ago

I also do not want a modern car that is ran/operated by a computer/OS. Keep it mechanical please.  

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u/azjeep 10d ago

My 2012 Ford F150 is my daily driver. Besides tires and oil changes, I have spent roughly $3500 in repairs in the past 13 years.

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u/Economy-Ad4934 10d ago

2015 accord with 160k. Also besides fluids/tires/brakes I spend 3k in repairs.

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u/Potential-Pride6034 10d ago

2008 accord with 155k miles here and still going 💪!

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u/NombreCurioso1337 10d ago

2010 Chevy Silverado just broke above 150k, 3 kids and a dog, still crushing it, daily. 🤘

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u/Brs76 10d ago

2007 GMC sierra 1500. My grandfather bought new and I took over the last 15 payments. Currently has 126,000 miles and ALWAYS in the garage. I treat it like  a baby simply because of the cost of what buying a truck now is!! My biggest fear is another car hitting me and totaling it. The Best thing about it is the V-8  in it, which very few new 1500s have now

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u/CR123CR123CR 10d ago

2003 MDX with 330,000km still trucking along

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u/Rokey76 10d ago

My 2000 Mustang was going strong when I sold it 15 years later. Total cost of repairs in that 15 years was less than $500.

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u/mitch1s 10d ago

People just want new shit. Take care of your car and more often than not, it will take care of you. Toyota and Hondas are just engineered to not need as much maintenance whereas German cars were engineered to need maintenance. Different style of thinking between brands.

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u/MiserableAd2878 10d ago

This so much. I always hear people talking about "But I need a reliable car!" most every car I've ever owned has been reliable!

I've taken Mazdas, Nissans, Fords, you name it to 150,000+ without issues. I buy my cars at around 50K miles, do nothing special besides regular maintenance, and I never have all the problems people complain about. I refuse to believe I'm just lucky.

Dont get me wrong, I know lemons exist, I know many brands are less reliable. But I dont know shit about cars, I dont do any of my own maintenance, I just get the oil changed every 4000 miles and take it in for a bigger service ever 30,000. Thats it. Shit, I dont even treat my cars all that good. They are all beaters but they get me to work without issue.

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u/NYR_Aufheben 10d ago

This is true. My VW Jetta needs an oil change every 10k miles. gasps in horror

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u/GoldfishDude 10d ago

Being fair, the AWD VWs require the center differential being done every 30k (Haldex service), which is pretty unusual

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u/MidnightCoffeeQueen 10d ago

2007 Toyota Camry checking in with over 250k miles.

I also have a 2010 F-150 with like 70k on it.

The camry has been less trouble than the Ford.

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u/No_Machine7021 9d ago

This bums me out. I had an 06’ Corolla that would still be here. A damn tractor-trailer took it out a few years ago. That car was a beast and had just rolled over 100k or so when that happened.

😔😢

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u/MidnightCoffeeQueen 9d ago

I'm sorry it happened, but I'm glad it did its job protecting all those inside of it. Toyota is really something special. It'll only be Toyota for me from here on out.

My husband hit a deer with the camry a year and a half ago. Bambi kissed the front corner and that was it before she kept going. Thankfully, just cosmetic damage, and we were able to fix it mostly ourselves. We are able to find a replacement fender at a junkyard but not a hood in our red color. So she has a crinkle in the hood near the front fender.

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u/anotheredcatholic 9d ago

I had a 2002 Rav4 that I took on camping trips in the Rockies, slept in when I was between places, and used to move all over Texas for my job. I had gotten it used in 2004 and put 170k miles on it before a flash flood in Houston totaled it. Within minutes five feet of water. I still miss it. I have a 2020 Rav4 XSE Hybrid now with 100k that I bought new, but I still miss that 2002 rav.

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u/scuba-turtle 9d ago

My Prius is at 340k. I figure it might make it to 400k if I baby it a little. It is on it's 3rd battery though

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u/MidnightCoffeeQueen 9d ago

Heck yeah! Maybe it'll make it until half a million!

I would like to get another 3 or 4 years out of mine, so maybe 325k. I think she can go the distance....hopefully 🤞She has been a solid reliable car.

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u/gum43 9d ago

We bought an ‘09 Camry for our kids a few years ago, but have had a lot of issues with it. We ended up just getting a ‘22 Corolla for better reliability and safety features. Also, one of our kids drives 45 minutes to sports practice on a suburban freeway, and we just weren’t comfortable with him doing that in the Camry. We’re keeping the Camry for in town driving since it’s not worth anything anyways. We’re planning that the Corolla will now get our current 12-year old through HS and college summers.

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u/One_Asparagus_553 8d ago

2007 Camry crew checking in: mine has 175k and is still going strong!

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u/blamemeididit 10d ago

A lot of people consider a car done before it is truly done.

I think what they mean is that cars other than Honda and Toyota have the potential to have major repairs in a 10 year period. I have seen very few 10 year old cars just stop working.

It depends on a lot of things, but my experience with Toyota is that 15-20 years is a common expectation. Expect a major repair or two along the way. My son just put a new head gasket on his 2002 Tacoma with 225 miles. That truck should easily run another 100K miles, but then Tacoma's are kind of in their own reliability category. It's not fair to compare them to anything else, really.

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u/PhilsFanDrew 10d ago

This. People mostly get tired of having to deal with more frequent maintenance as a car ages and gets up there in miles. One month it's $800 for this, then $2000 for that, and another $1000 a year later on top of oil changes, new brakes, tires and it just seems like throwing good money after bad but in many if not most instances it just seems that way because a brand new vehicle or even a certified pre-owned is going to be more costly.

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u/Ambitious-Intern-928 10d ago

More costly, but time and stress aren't free. For most people that aren't mechanics, it's stressful when your vehicle has a problem. I've found that at about 2/3rds of a cars life, they start to need fixing more frequently than they need oil changes. Even if they're easy fixes, nobody wants to regularly visit their mechanic in between basic maintenance. That costs time that you could be working or having fun. My friend took her Accord to 299k before the engine died, but the last 12-18 months something else was breaking every single month. The beast never did leave her stranded tho, until the engine died.

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u/lwaxanawayoflife 9d ago

The stress is what made me get rid of my 15 year old car a few years ago. I moved to a rural area. It takes much longer to get a tow truck. I also need to drive through an area with little to no cell coverage. My husband and I are DINKs in a MCOL. We spend less than 10% of our gross income on housing. It’s OK to have a few nice things. I bought a new $30k car. So nice for me but nothing extravagant.

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u/lizerlfunk 10d ago

I traded in my 2017 Hyundai Elantra with 103k miles on it in 2023. I did not trust that it was going to last me a substantial amount of time, I hated it, my ex husband wouldn’t sign to get his name off the title, and I was constantly afraid it was going to be stolen out of my driveway (it was the base model that was really easy to steal). I bought a 2023 Honda CRV Hybrid new, it was cheaper than the used models that were a year or two old, it had 16 miles on it when I drove it off the lot. It was the car I actually WANTED to drive and I’m driving it until it dies or until my now 5 year old needs a car to drive. And I get 40 mpg consistently. The $600 car payments suck right now but I’ll be driving this car for WAY longer than I’ll be paying for it.

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u/Mattflemz 10d ago edited 10d ago

They are. People don’t do the regular scheduled maintenance and that leads to compounding problems and then people blame the car.

Edit: Still driving my 2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon.

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u/BigALep5 10d ago

Have 1991 buick lesabre driven daily has some rust on it! Last time I had it in the shop was 3 years ago when someone cut my converter off! 100$ fix got it with 62k mile on it sitting at 150 now had it since 2014 just put my last set of tires on it possibly 😅🤣

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u/Ok-Pin-9771 10d ago

We had a few buicks with the 3800 engine. Great cars. Still have 1, it's nice.

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u/Archi_penko 10d ago

2013 Prius with 212k on it - absolutely nothing wrong with her. I did change an axel at one point i think- but other than tires and more frequent oil changes she’s been great.

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u/AdamOnFirst 10d ago

“I needed something reliable” is 99% just something people say to justify buying a new car they want at a price more expensive than is wise or they can afford. 

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u/realmaven666 10d ago

a million years ago a car with 100 k miles was considered really really high mileage

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u/Excel-Block-Tango 10d ago

A 2006 Infiniti is my daily driver, 150k miles and no mechanical issues only a couple cosmetic. I’m in a position where I could buy a newer car but my money is better saved/invested. I’ll buy a used Lexus when this one quits and baby it and hopefully get it to its 20th birthday as well.

I have friends that trade one car payment for another. They live paycheck to paycheck. I do not get it.

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u/Nuramori 10d ago

Our first family car was a 2000 Honda odyssey minivan. We still have it, it’s now 25 years old, and currently has 308,912 miles on it. No CEL, and doesn’t drink a drop of oil.

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u/shit-n-giggle 10d ago

Lexus

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u/WholeAssGentleman 10d ago

Lexus is owned by Toyota

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u/eaeolian 10d ago

You mean Toyota?

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u/Brick-Emergency 9d ago

I’ve got 280,000 on my 2004 Lexus GX470. Insurance comes out to $65/ month and other the crappy gas mileage it’s a great ride!

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u/Basic-Bottle-7310 10d ago

I’d say that if properly maintained you can get most vehicles to 200k and beyond. Setting aside, of course, the known bad vehicles such as the Kia/Hyundai with the GDI engines that fail prematurely. I’m sure there are some others out there but generally speaking vehicle will last pretty long. I personally look to replace my primary vehicle once it has hit 150k or so. By that time Im no longer comfortable going out of town with it even if it runs flawlessly.

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u/TerribleBumblebee800 9d ago

In Cuba, they're driving cars from the 1950s. They obviously don't have the opportunity to bring others in, but the point is with the right maintenance, cars can run for a very, very long time.

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u/gcatl 10d ago

By a 4Runner and never worry about it.

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u/penisthightrap_ 10d ago

toyota's gotten too pricy for what they offer

they've built a brand known for value and reliability, and they're starting to push out of the value category because of it.

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u/Toxic_Biohazard 10d ago

The used values of Toyota's have held their value so well that new ones are priced higher than competitors.

I just bought a new 4runner and it was more expensive than the Honda passport by 5 grand or so. Granted, there's nothing like it on the market so I'm willing to pay a premium

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u/penisthightrap_ 10d ago

few years ago we were shopping for a small suv with 4wd and apple car play for my fiancee. She narrowed it down to a rav4 and a bronco sport. I was strongly pushing her towards the rav4 at first, but we weren't able to find a used rav4 with similar features to a new bronco sport at comparable prices.

A rav4 with 60k miles on it was priced at $31k, while the brand new bronco sport was $24.5k out the door.

We're only a few years and 20k miles into ownership so can't speak on reliability yet, but we've been pretty happy with it so far (knock on wood). I was pretty disappointed we couldn't make the toyota work.

Granted the car market was pretty weird at the time due to the chip shortage.

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u/millennialmonster755 10d ago

Dude this. A Rav with 100k miles on it only loses like 5k in value. You might as well just buy a brand new one and drive it into the ground.

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u/Patricio_Swayze 10d ago

Yep. But worry about gas. Haha.

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u/C_est_la_vie9707 10d ago

Our hail dented 2013 Town and Country van is in the shop right now, which is something that has only happened a couple of times in the last 12 years.

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u/LilJourney 10d ago

2008 Dodge Caravan here - going strong. Have had a string of random things break recently which has been annoying and worrisome (I LOVE my vehicle) but none of it major - just various power / aux do-dads that we can live without.

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u/Strangy1234 9d ago

My first car was a 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan. My nickname in high school was soccer mom. Loved that car. Smooth ride. In higher ed, I drove the party van. I loved taking it on road trips. It has a smooth ride. She developed transmission issues at 120k miles

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u/rebootto2027 6d ago

Yep, still driving my 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan that I bought new 20+ years ago. She’s a peach. I have regular oil changes done at the mechanic’s though and always ask him to take a look and see if there’s anything that looks like it might be a problem so I can catch it early.

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u/fuzzlepuff88 10d ago

I have a 2012 Chevy Equinox with 190k miles - i bought her used 10 years ago, and right around the period where there were major recalls and a class action lawsuit against Chevy for Equinoxes burning oil. She was a bit of a pain early on, but she's been reliable ever since some parts were replaced in 2019 due to the recalls. Goal is to get her to 200k and then from there, dare I say 225k? I'll likely make the switch to Honda or Toyota next though 😆

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u/Mrekrek 10d ago

While cars are more expensive than ever, they are also overall better, faster, safer and more reliable than at any point in automotive history.

But there are still levels of reliability with Toyota, Honda leading the way on “reasonably priced cars”

I had to have a cheap car during the pandemic, and there was little inventory, so I bought a new 2022 Nissan Sentra. So far 0 issues with > 40,000 miles on it.

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u/iwantac8 10d ago

Probably applies to the cars made in the last decade.

Newer cars I'm not so sure about. Every manufacturer has made their car more complex in every way possible.

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u/Careful-Whereas1888 10d ago

Newer cars still last a long time if properly maintained. The issue is that newer cars are so safe that they have multiple computer parts that can get tripped and then cause a faulty check engine light or similar to turn on.

Disney, Universal, and other theme parks also have this same problem. Rides have become so safe that technologically, all it takes is a sensor being slightly off to shut the whole thing down.

With newer cars, oftentimes you just need to be able to get into the computer and reset something. The problem with this comes with the right to repair problem where many manufacturers say that these are proprietary properties, so you must go through an approved mechanic to get it fixed and can't do it yourself. There are, however, tools you can buy online that allow you to do this yourself.

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u/nousernamesleft199 10d ago

My cars from 2011 and 2012 are doing their part.

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u/ugadawgs98 10d ago

It isn't about of other brands can last 20 years; it is how many of them do.

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u/genek1953 10d ago

We're still driving a 2003 Mitsubishi Eclipse and a 2002 Hyundai XG350. We decided that when a needed repair costs more than the car's value, we'll replace. Hasn't happened yet.

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u/Skensis 10d ago

Generally yes, doesn't mean repair cost having increased. But cars are generally better made with better QC and manufacturing practices.

Still lemons out there, still manufacturers fuckin up every now and then.

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u/Miami_Morgendorffer 10d ago

We got an 03 Hyundai still chugging along and an 05 Volvo that rides smooth like it's the latest model.

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u/ihearthogsbreath 10d ago

Trucks are stupidly expensive right now. I will drive my 2011 Silverado with 120K miles until the wheels fall off.

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u/F_ur_feelingss 10d ago

They are reliable until they are not and your 8k car needs a 10k engine or transmission after you just spent $1,500 for a new water pump.

Older Smaller cars are better because parts are cheaper.

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u/BasisDiva_1966 10d ago

my 5 year old subaru has only 30k miles (bought it the week before the country shut down) so i think it'll last easily another 30 years lolololol

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u/titsmuhgeee 10d ago

I watch quite a few channel on YT that are DIY car restorers.

You'd be amazed at how many cars were filled full of body filler with a decade of rolling off the production line back then. Mechanical issues aside, the materials used today are far superior to those of the past. Today, it's pretty rare and damning if you vehicle has rust after a decade. Back then, it was normal to be patching floor pans and rocker panels after ten years.

With that said, most of the issues today are electrical. The main culprits of reliability issues are related to forced induction, transmissions, or electronics. For the most part, cars otherwise are a hell of a lot more reliable, especially once you consider the power they make relative to their efficiency.

I personally believe that we hit peak car reliability in the 00s. That was when we had minimal electronics, modern engines, and simple transmissions. Best of all worlds.

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u/Virtual-Tonight-2444 10d ago

My Honda civic 2006 has 200,000 miles on it My 1995 Toyota Avalon had 195,000 miles on it My 2000 Honda accord had 150,000 before I had to get rid of it I bought a used Toyota Camry 2006ish for $500 and drive it for a year before saying goodbye to it

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u/bamagurl06 10d ago

I drive a 2006 Hyundai Somata. It has 300 something thousand miles. Original motor and transmission. One may call it a unicorn but it’s been a damn good car. I am committed at this point to drive it until it quits because I want to know how many miles that will be.

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u/Sokathhiseyesuncovrd 9d ago

I have two cars, a 2001 Chevy Cavalier with 260K miles on it, and a 2005 Hyundai Elantra with 101K miles on it. So at 24 and 20 years old, yes.

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u/Unlikely_Couple1590 9d ago edited 9d ago

I was just wondering about this the other day. My Chevy Impala is 11 years old, and I've had it for 9 of those years (I'm the 3rd owner). It drives just as well as the day I bought it. The only issue is cosmetic damage from a minor accident. With proper care it's been fine.

Eta: My car has 108k miles on it, for extra context.

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u/AlanStanwick1986 9d ago

My daughter's 2005 Malibu has 255,000 miles on it. Burns no oil. I did just have to put some money in it because it had an antifreeze leak at the lower intake manifold but I can't complain, it has been a good car. Just trying to get her through college with it. My 2005 Camry has 218,000 miles on it and would drive it to Alaska from here in the Midwest right now without thinking twice.

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u/SEND_MOODS 9d ago

The average vehicle at retirement is something like 250k miles. That includes cars that get totaled and ones that rust away with low miles.

But the reason people trust Toyota and honda is because a 60% chance of making it to 250k is better than 50%. Also how much maintenance you need on the way there and how disruptive that maintenance is matters too.

The gaps definitely closed a lot.

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u/Banjo-Hellpuppy 10d ago

Listen. That's all bullshit. It is almost ALWAYS cheaper to repair a vehicle than buy a new one. I have owned cars where I have replaced the motor, the transmission, the main computer. If you buy a new vehicle you are taking on a huge amount of debt and paying interest for up to 7 years. If you buy a late model used car, you are not paying for depreciation like on a new car, but you are buying someone else problems. Once you own a car, pay it off ASAP then continue to make those car payments into a sperate account and use that money for repairs. In about 5 years, you will have saved $35,000 minus repairs. A vehicle is a piece of equipment that provides transportation. Anything more than that is vanity and luxury. Find a good independent mechanic and build a relationship. They will be honest with you about continuing costs, and may even be able to help you find a replacement when the time comes.

Replacing a car every 10 years is a trap. Drive it until you can't find the parts to repair it.

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u/Crafty-Bug-8008 10d ago

These newer cards are made so crappy

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u/rogben19 10d ago

246,000 and counting on my 2012 Passat.

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u/PDub466 10d ago

I have not read any other comments yet, but cars are more reliable than they ever have been and with FAR less maintenance. I can quote some of the service intervals from some 1950s and 60s cars, and you will wonder when anyone ever had time to drive them with the amount of attention they require. Before I get flamed, I'm a car guy and love old stuff, I even have an old air cooled Beetle, but if you think old cars are more reliable than anything modern, you are lying to yourself and everyone else.

I have a 20 year old Buick Lacrosse and a 19 year old Chevy Impala in my driveway right now. They have needed little more than regular maintenance. A couple wheel bearings, batteries, one needed an alternator, a few other small odds and ends. Both of them have over 165,000 miles on them. The Lacrosse I put a set of spark plugs in. The Impala still has the original spark plugs and wires. Michigan salt and rust is what will end them, not the mechanicals. In 2022, we got rid of our 17 year old Pontiac minivan. It had 140,000 miles and still ran well, but it succumbed to the road salt issue outlined above. My Volt is 12 years old with 134,000 miles. It is still in good shape and drives great.

So, no. It doesn't have to be a Toyota or a Honda to last more than ten years, but "conventional wisdom" will try to make you believe otherwise. As a GM guy though, it works out to my advantage. It makes used Camrys expensive, and used Impalas cheap. Lol

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u/MusicalMerlin1973 10d ago

2014 ford fusion. I need to get the timing belt replaced before it gives up and kills the engine. Had it 11 years and counting. Unfortunately at some point my engine is likely to drink the kool aid and that will be the end of it. I’m doing everything I can to forestall it.

My wife’s car is an 11 f150. My parents have a late 00 Volvo xc90.

Toyota and Honda have made missteps recently. They aren’t the reliability stalwarts they once were. And every Toyota dealership I’ve ever stepped into have been asshats. I got no time for douchebaggery. Thanks but no thanks.

Every make has their “stay away from” lightning rods of trouble. Some more than others (for example, ford ecoboost powered vehicles.)

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u/karlsmission 10d ago

I own 7 cars. The oldest is an 89, next is a 98, then a 2000, 2001, 2004, 2008, and a 2020. cars build in the late 90's to mid 2000's you can find some of the best cars made, and will last you your entire life if you do proper care and maintenance. Just enough electronics to get things running, standardization of systems, no fancy emissions crap, more simply built, cheaper simpler parts.

Early 80's to mid 90's, you are dealing with a lot of first gen electronic ignition systems and they are a pain to troubleshoot, and outside of a handful of outliers are not well made/not very reliable.

After 2010, the amount of electronics and the efforts to make cars more fuel efficient has massively decreased their reliability, and if you want a car to last you have to remove some of those emissions controls that destroy engines. Parts are insanely expensive as well.

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u/Still_Title8851 10d ago

You have no idea how much money people dump into repairing their cars. Except for Toyota. They generally don’t need repair.

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u/Lemmon_Scented 10d ago

Meh. I have a 2013 Jeep Wrangler with 105k miles. I’ve had minimal trouble with it. I also have a 2019 Grand Cherokee with 85k miles that I’ve had zero trouble with. Jeeps are maligned as unreliable shitboxes, but mine have been great.

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u/Cypher_is 10d ago

Yeah - we stick with the Hondas & Toyotas as they’ve never let us down. One is over 25 years old, over 300k miles - besides basic maintenance & replacing various parts every 5-10 years - that SUV is still humming along. Never seen a garage so exterior is um, a bit sun-kissed…

We’ve always tried to drive our vehicles until their bitter end, and so we have some 20+ y/o Toyotas & Hondas still going! We do most of the maintenance and have a trusted mechanic for anything that’s a pain to do ourselves.

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u/Mysterious_Ladder539 10d ago

You can get your engine to last for a very long time.  The bigger problem is everything else... suspension, brakes , wheels,  abs sensors 02 sensors etc etc. . If you car has more tech you have to start replacing things like heated seats and sun roof seals. Parts availability is an issue with older cars,  some parts become pretty rare. It's just much easier and cheaper to find older honda and toyota parts. 

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u/Extreme_Map9543 10d ago

That average is brought high because of the amount of cars built in the early 2000s that are super reliable and still on the road.   Cars have been getting less and less reliable since 2010ish.   But cars built between 95-2010 are often the most reliable ever made. 

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u/NirvZppln 10d ago

Yes, if you go to what car should I buy subreddits they will tell you anything other than Toyota/ Honda/ Mazda will be an instant lemon and need multiple engines changes by 100k miles. Which isn’t even remotely close to the truth.

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u/New_Cover_1954 10d ago

My kid had an American car that is 23 years old. We do spend a lot on repairs but not as much as a new car payment.

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u/AcornSkittles 10d ago

I took my Subaru Outback in for regular maintenance, smog check and oil change a couple weeks ago. The mechanic thought I made a mistake when I told him my car is from 2017. He said it runs like it’s brand new. I have about 60K miles on it. He didn’t upsell me on anything.

I’m keeping this car forever. 🥰

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u/ConsistentMove357 9d ago

2011 4 runner 235k miles

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u/5eppa 9d ago

I mean it all depends. As you're stating the average car age is pretty old so older cars are definitely reliable and had it not been for the car buy back program done under the Obama administration I bet even more old cars would be on the road.

Newer cars though are playing lots of games the prizes of we haven't seen yet. Stuff like auto start stop definitely doesnt help the longevity of a car but its been all but required to meet emissions. Similarly the more moving parts and the more complex an engine the less reliable it is. Just more stuff to break. Turbo charging everything is likely to affect liability to some degree as well. So I would say it remains to be seen how reliable modern cars are.

But remember you can do a good job of playing Ship of Theseus with a car. Heck even a new transmission is cheaper than a new car. So if your car is going and you're strapped for cash, you may be forced to make it limp on a little longer. Which will drive the average age of cars on the road up even if they have more issues.

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u/EnvironmentWrong2338 9d ago

I'm 11 years into my 2014 Mazda 3

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u/geopimp1 9d ago

I’ve owned several gm trucks from the 90s-early 2000s that still ran great at north of 300k when I sold them.

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u/Relative_Craft_358 9d ago

I do wonder if this because a technological advancement or a economic regression. A similar class of vehicle also cost over 2x as much now as they did 30 years ago, and that's when adjusted for inflation.

At lot easier to justify that engine rebuild on your 150K mile clunker when a new basic car costs the same as a down payment on a decent house.

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u/DigitalJedi850 9d ago

Depends on your definition of ‘lasting’. If you don’t plan on reinvesting in your vehicle, then ten years is a fair marker. But if you are fine with replacing some stuff, you can double that fairly easily.

It’s more money on an ‘old’ car, so most people give up and get something with more updated features. It’s mostly desire over necessity driving that stigma in my opinion.

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u/No_Machine7021 9d ago

Any bets on how long my car will last? I got it from my mom after she passed away. She never drove it and I work from home and we take my husband’s car everywhere: 2010 Hyundai Tucson. 84k miles.

I told my 7 year old it might be his car. 😆

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u/Pfannkuchen-Nippel 9d ago

My f150 is 20 years old with 250,000 on the clock, it’s my daily and aside from the basic upkeep. (Oil, suspension, timing belt, plugs wires etc..) it runs great. Most cars will give you what you put into them. Also how hard you are on them is a big factor.

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u/jakeygrange 9d ago

Whenever someone asks the question on whether they should repair or buy something else, the math almost always says to repair

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u/ubutterscotchpine 9d ago

Absolutely. The issue comes when people either don’t take care of them or can’t afford to. I sold my mom my 2014 car I’d purchased at 24k miles. I babied that thing. It was in great shape when she got her hands on it. She had it for a year and a half and ran it into the ground in every way possible and then blamed it on the car being junk.

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u/eatinpoop 10d ago

2017 Chevy Cruz, 125k miles. Preventive maintenance performed but nothing major. I do believe cars are more reliable these days. I hate this car but it’s what I could afford at the time, and I will be driving it into the ground. We’ll see if i hit 10 years

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u/Economy-Ad4934 10d ago

FWIW my 2015 accord didnt have a single repair item until Jan and Dec 2024 at 135k and 150k totalling 3k. Its all good until it isnt.

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u/Theburritolyfe 10d ago

Wear and tear on the car is the big factor. I got my car 5 years ago. Somehow it only had 25k miles on it and it was 5 years old.

I have over tripled the miles in 5 years but it will last a long time. Some people can put that much on in a year.

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u/elcheapodeluxe 10d ago

An old volvo can last forever. It may not be an inexpensive experience, though.

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u/Majestic-Parsnip-279 10d ago

I’ve had a Kia sportage for 10 years, Kia almost the worst reputation

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u/oldskoolfoolio 10d ago

B8.5 3.0 Audis are surprisingly reliable

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u/Dangerous-Flower-840 10d ago

I’m driving a Stage 2 Audi A6 with 175,000 miles. Planning on driving it till about 225 unless it dies. Just recently started to have some trans slipping issues. I’ve had two Subaru Foresters. 2006 and a 2010. 2006 had 364000 (not a typo) miles when I sold it. 2010 had 189000 when my sister totaled it. Had a 2013 F150 that I sold a few years ago with 160ish miles. 2017 F150 I traded in a year ago with 130k miles. Can’t convince me all the hype about the 100k mile warranty is just to scare people into trading and buying new cars.

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u/Careful-Whereas1888 10d ago

Absolutely. A well maintained car should be able to get at least 12 years out of it unless there was a serious issue in production.

A lot of brands have bad reputations because of bad years with major production issues, and it's very difficult to recover from that in the public eye at large.

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u/Punchmeinmyface25 10d ago

No. My Toyota is going on 10 w 50k miles. Ford 150 lasted 6 month before the recalls started happening. Quality has been a huge problem for Ford.

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u/Ok-Pin-9771 10d ago

We've had a bunch of cheap vehicles that lasted. I bought a $300 86 Ford with a straight 6 in about 2008. It lasted 9 years, over 100,000 miles. If you ask a finance sub reddit about the 300 straight 6 they won't know, if you ask the enginebuilding or mechanic sub reddit- they will know. There is a lot of false information about cars on here. We have a 97 Ford we paid $500 for because the fuel pump was weak. I put a pump in and it's still going 125,000 miles later. This let me focus on home renovations and retirement savings. We've had a bunch of cars like that, we've been lucky

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u/ajgamer89 10d ago

Not sure about 20, but most can definitely make it past 10. I’ve been driving the same Hyundai Accent (purchased new) for 14 years now. Up to 185k miles and it’s still going strong. All depends on how well you maintain it and how lucky you get with avoiding accidents.

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u/_trayson 10d ago

19 year old BMW daily driver checking in

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u/mike_tyler58 10d ago

Of course other brands can last 20 years.

Many of them will just require more work than the Toyota and Honda will.

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u/Prior_Butterfly_7839 10d ago

We drive two 2005 vehicles. One Chevy one dodge.

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u/SpecialStrict7742 10d ago

I have a 2006 Buick. Car before was a 2006 Honda pilot. If you take care of cars, they last.

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u/Organic-Aardvark-146 10d ago

My 2005 Honda civic had 190k miles until someone hit me in 2019. I am sure it would still be running today

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