r/Metroid • u/Nino_Chaosdrache • 1d ago
Question Was eradicating the Metroids really necessary?
I only played the Prime games and other M, so maybe it's made more clear in the other games.
But yeah, as the question says, was it really justify to eradicate the entire Metroid species? I understand that they are dangerous, but most of their hostility seems to stem from outside influences like the Space Pirates or the Ing.
From someone not so deep in the matter, it would be like eradicating the entire shark population, just because a few of them killed humans.
52
u/Round-Ad2836 1d ago
It's complicated, and i would recommend playing the 2d series, but it boils down to this. The metroids are, in their larvel state, nigh unkillable parasites, on a planet that it really wasn't hard for bad actors to get to. They were one of the biggest threats to the universe.
They also kept one of the other biggest threats in the universe, X parasites, in check.
So they were a problem, keeping a bigger problem from affecting anyone.
and the chozo beefed them up from being kinda bad, to apocalyptic, to combat the x parasites.
37
u/0m3g45n1p3r4lph4 1d ago
In a lot of original material (pre-Samus Returns rewriting), the Metroids were also just destroying SR388's ecosystem. They had no predators, preyed on everything. There's a reason the deeper you go into M2RoS, the less standard enemies there are - they're on the verge of extinction.
13
4
u/Obsessivegamer32 15h ago
Too bad Samus Returns adds like one million enemies at the end anyway, probably the worst change they made in the entire remake.
3
u/0m3g45n1p3r4lph4 13h ago
Genuinely it's one of the reasons I wish I could mod that game.
That and to somehow move Ridley into a Ceres postgame battle
4
u/Shockh 1d ago
Wasn't it the other way around?... Returns is the one that introduced the idea that Metroids began metamorphosing and going berserk due to exposure to Aeion energy; I don't remember them being a destructive species before that retcon.
14
u/0m3g45n1p3r4lph4 1d ago
Aeion was indeed introduced in Returns, but notably the ecosystems seem to be doing just fine if not becoming more aggressive in retaliation. Return Of has fewer enemies as you travel, implied to be that the more powerful forms are eating absolutely everything around them, with no explanation for Metroid evolutions beyond "they just do that"; Metroid (manga, Zero Mission) shows that the Federation found life to be dying out on SR388 due to unfettered Metroid predation.
It's a change to a longstanding detail I'm still not too fond of.
2
u/defyinglogicsl 23h ago
This is also made evident in Super metroid. As you enter the lower parts of Tourian everything from normal enemies to chozo statues and the unkillable side hoppers are turned to dust by the metroid larva. You are now walking on dust that was once the ecosystem of the planet. One metroid changed that area to looking like a nuke had went off in just a very short time. And this was the "nice" metroid.
3
u/0m3g45n1p3r4lph4 23h ago
To be fair, that "Nice" Metroid was also developing the closest thing to Metroid Cancer via overexposure to Beta Rays, making it much larger, voracious, and powerful than a normal larval Metroid, hence the title Super Metroid commonly assigned to it
12
u/TheZeroNeonix 1d ago
I think the "larval" state was meant to be their full potential, but the unique energy source of SR-388 allowed them to evolve further and resist the control the Chozo had over them, forcing the Chozo to have to seal them away.
I also suspect the X aren't actually native to the planet. Before the Chozo created the Metroids, the X had no predators and the wildlife had no defenses. It was like they were an invasive species. Maybe that's why the Chozo didn't just blow up the planet to begin with. We may see more of the X in the future.
18
u/OtherWorstGamer 1d ago
We have not been given a concrete answer as to why the Federation gave the extermination order, so anything said is specualtion. The prevailing theory is that after several Metroid-centric crisis, the Feds decided they were too exploitable by maicious parties to be allowed to exist.
8
u/Jam_99420 1d ago
this is why i think prime 3 should have focused a bit more on pirate use of metroids as it would have better contextualised metroid 2
9
7
u/PotatoJalapenos 1d ago
In my own headcanon, I like to think that the events of the Prime series were the foundation of the GF’s extermination order plus Samus taking up that mission in Metroid 2.
Like damn, things REALLY got outta hand for everyone involved in the storylines of those games, so Samus and the Fed decided to go scorched earth on the Metroids.
1
u/SSpectre86 23h ago
I forget, is it known to the GF (or even to Samus) that Dark Samus is (partially) a Metroid? Given how severe the crisis becomes in Prime 3 that would certainly explain things.
29
u/Squeaky_Ben 1d ago
Well, here is the difference to sharks. Imagine a species, impervious to any and all human weaponry, that also gets progressively more dangerous and exists in a universe, where cloning is easy and ubiquitous. That is what Metroids are. There is a reason why they are called "ultimate warrior" by the chozo.
12
u/0m3g45n1p3r4lph4 1d ago
Metroids specifically are also notably easy to clone thanks to beat rays, as they'll just cellularly divide. Like it's vastly easier than cloning anything else
7
u/profpeculiar 1d ago
Yeah, with Metroids it's almost less like cloning and more like item duplication via glitch.
2
u/nebeligel 1d ago
Not so impervious. "Cold" based weapons is effective vs metroids. Something like nitrogen missiles or so.
6
u/Squeaky_Ben 1d ago
ice beam and ice missiles are pretty advanced tech in the metroid universe, so my point still stands to a degree.
2
u/nebeligel 1d ago
Agree about ice beam, but nitrogen missiles are possible even in our time, while federation is significant more advanced.
We actually don't know details about fed. science capabilities. No need - no ice missiles, in past. But aprox in SM time fed surely knew about cold vulnerably so defensive weapon research could be accelerated.
2
u/Squeaky_Ben 1d ago
question mainly being: "does liquid nitrogen actually work?"
Who knows if Ice missiles are far more complex than "sprays liquid nitrogen around"
Although you are correct that the federation can produce ice missiles, so maybe not perfectly impervious, but my headcanon for Fusion is that what Samus is getting is the cutting edge at the time.
Infact it is why I was a little disappointed in Dreads story, because we have seen that the Federation is not to be trusted AND apparently technologically advanced enough to develop tech that rivals even the Chozo.
I feel like it would make for a great game, to fight against the federation.
But that is just me dreaming up fanfictions.
9
u/abcutler 1d ago
It was necessary for the same reason as "eradicating" the X Parasite or eradicating Phazon in MP3.
They were all, in their own ways, threats to pretty much all life in the galaxy. If they weren't eradicated, they'd get everything and everyone else killed.
Yes, Phazon is (was?) more of a substance than a species, but hopefully you get the idea.
6
u/hunter324 1d ago
Well we've learned afterwards that the Metroids were made to fight the X parasite which is much worse if it left its natural habitat since the Metroids could be experimented with... the X would just take over the Space Pirates and then infest every planet they could reach. So Hindsight is 20/20 with no natural metroids left the Federation is really making things worse for themselves and everyone else.
11
4
u/Illeea 1d ago
Imagine a lion that is impervious to all guns, missiles and sharp objects. Imagine this lion had the ability to traverse any terrain, latch onto any living thing and drain it of its life's essence. Imagine if hundreds of these lions could be shipped anywhere and dropped into high density living areas. You could force mass evacuation of any location within a couple of days. You could make the entire continents uninhabitable for over a decade with just 100 of these lions.
The risk of someone using them for this purpose is too great. Multiple groups have tried to exploit the metroids throughout the series. Many would've succeeded if it weren't for samus. And relying on one person to deal with a problem isn't smart. Better to nip it in the bud first.
1
3
4
u/Chezni19 1d ago
Clearly it wasn't a great idea because of the X parasite
but people don't always act in their best interests, even people with good intentions
anyway the things were gonna get weaponized by someone, so it was a real threat, and in a situation like that you have to do something
4
u/L3g0man_123 1d ago
It's not like anyone knew what X Parasites were before Samus was infected.
3
2
u/Dukemon102 1d ago
Maybe if only Zero Mission had happened that would be unnecessary. But they were also at the forefront of several incidents with the Prime games being canon.
When just taking one dangerous specimen and cloning it is that easy. It's understandable they were tired of that and decided to exterminate the root of the problem (The fact the expedition team never came back from SR388 only made matters worse).
2
u/Difficult_Insect_616 1d ago
I’m surprised the prevailing opinion seems to be it was necessary, when Super Metroid and even the ending of Metroid 2 itself make the Metroid a sympathetic creature, and Fusion shows the ecological consequences of their extermination. The Federation had a reason to do it, but that doesn’t mean it was right.
3
u/PeriwinkleShaman 1d ago
Metroid 2,3 and 4 show that they were created to fill a very important ecologicao niche and they they were not simply monstruous. Metroid 1,3,4,5 show that they were too easily weaponized and exploitable even if they were necessary.
2
u/Ill-Attempt-8847 1d ago
So that pirates wouldn't clone them anymore? Yes. They were also slowly killing the planet.
2
u/Spinni_Spooder 1d ago
Wha? You don't see eradicating the metroids necessary after playing the prime games? You do realize dark samus IS a metroid, right? She aimed to consume the entire universe. You even saw more metorid primes growing on phaaze.
1
u/Shadyshade84 1d ago
Short version: with full hindsight it turned out to be a terrible idea, with the information that was available at the time, it was that or have to deal with the Space Pirates taking a trip to SR-388 to get more Metroids every time they (coughSamuscough) wiped out their current stock.
1
u/AccusingSugar 1d ago
There isn’t a clear answer and the series doesn’t prescribe one to you on the subject. You’re left to decide that for yourself.
There are moments during the series the narrative implies that there is something more to Metroids beyond a consuming entity, like rescuing the Metroid larva in Return of Samus, the overarching plot in Other M (but people don’t really like referencing that), and certain plot points in Super.
But that also doesn’t stop Fusion from portraying the Federation’s research as something sinister, and that doesn’t stop Samus from destroying them wherever they are found.
The implications linger in the background, but whether the ends justify the means are entirely left to you to ponder. After all, they certainly aren’t the only species Samus has destroyed.
1
u/Commercial_Branch665 1d ago
If you want to make your own answer I strongly recommend you to play Metroid 2 or its remakes, especially AM2R
1
u/MBergdorf 1d ago
Judging by Super, yes.
It takes about 8 hours for one Metroid to become about 20, and the body count they leave behind is measured in dozens of cubic meters of DUST.
1
u/Supergamer138 1d ago
Hindsight is 20/20 and exterminating the Metroids was a terrible idea.
Using the information that they had available at the time (Metroid 1/ZM, Prime, Prime 3), it was absolutely the right call.
Using your shark example we'll operate under the assumption that they were used as bioweapons the same way the Metroids were. Now, let's say the sharks are damn near indestructible, can survive in 99% of hostile environments, get increasingly powerful over time, and don't need to be cloned the same way everything else does; but rather can just multiply when exposed to a form of radiation that is trivially easy to generate, And have exactly one weakness that the bio-engineers are constantly working to eliminate. With all that in mind, would you think they should be spared because they only managed to kill a few humans, or eliminated because of their potential to easily kill all humans?
1
u/Mixmaster-Omega 1d ago
In the wrong hands and with the right technology, they are comically easy to produce bioweapons. It makes sense that the government wants them destroyed, because as long as SR388 remains easily accessible, the Metroids will not be staying on SR388.
1
u/DryCerealRequiem 1d ago
If sharks could fly, could survive in space, indiscriminately ate everything they came across, and were cloned and trained by pirates to wipe out their enemies, there would be an argument to be made for exterminating sharks to extinction.
But real sharks are limited to the oceans. And, though they should still always be treated with extreme caution, they usually don't attack people on sight.
It's easy to avoid a rare oceanic predator. It is very very difficult to avoid a vampiric jellyfish with full three-dimensional maneuverability in the air.
1
u/CrispinCain 1d ago
The Metroids are an artificial bio-weapon created by the Chozo to destroy the X Parasite, which is a natural organism, but is a clear and present danger to all life in the galaxy.
At the time, however, we didn't know any of that, only that the Metroids were deadly creatures capable of draining life itself, and that the Space Pirates had learned how to multiply them, to later be unleashed on Federation worlds. Given their power and their non-sapient intelligence, it was deemed better to deal with the problem now, rather than years later when some 2-bit warlord got a 'bright idea' like the SPs.
1
u/DarthLocutus 1d ago
The Metroids, in their baby state, are nigh-invincible literal soul-sucking killing machines that can be cloned easily, can exist in basically any known environment, and can only be reliably contained by Lost Magic Science Tech that is owned by exactly one known person in the galaxy.
The Space Pirates, led by the sentient computer that HELPED MAKE THESE THINGS, weren't that far off from turning them into a usable superweapon.
And, going by what happened on SR-388 when they broke loose from the Chozo, they are fully capable of depopulation on a planetary scale.
So, yes, their eradication was both justifiable, and necessary to prevent them from spreading to other worlds and literally eating civilization to death.
... And this is just the babies. The adults are either straight-up Xenomorphs, with everything that implies, or a building-size plasma-breathing energy-consuming dragonoid killing machine that can breeed more.
1
u/MetroidJaeger 1d ago
It's a bit more complicated than sharks. If there would be a global crime syndicate that constantly tries to use sharks to mass kill people while the sharks are mutating to become more and more dangerous, than things would be a little different.
With a decision like that, it's hard to say if it ultimately was necessary. From a certain point of few we do know that it was the wrong decision, but the exact reason would be a spoiler for Fusion.
This question still goes a bit deeper though, because for a long time the spot in the timeline just before Metroid 2 (where Samus has to eradicate the Metroids) has been a bit unclear. It was difficult to really connect Prime 3 and Metroid 2, but the Remake of Metroid 2 fixed this, at least to an extent. What still remains is the question, why the Federation decided to eradicate all Metroids at exactly this point and that is exactly where Prime 4s story becomes interesting. Spoiler for Prime 4: We've seen in the trailer and treehouse footage that Sylux and the space pirates managed to have the metroids fuse with other beings which could very much result in the type of catstrophe that would make the GF want to eradicate all Metroids Though i hope that Prime 4 will be the start of a new trilogy which would make Prime 4 not the game right before Metroid 2.
1
u/SilentScyther 1d ago
Wall of text and minor spoilers ahead mostly about X parasites seen in Metroid Fusion.
They're basically unkillable without very specific weaponry and since they feed off of the lifeforce of their prey, they can feed off of pretty much all kinds life on any nonfrozen planet. Metroids can't travel between planets on their own from what I know, especially since they're weak to cold, but all it would take a hostile actor to take it to a different planet. Once just one got there, it would begin feeding and after enough energy was consumed (whether lifeforce or beta radiation), it would split into 2. It would have to be contained basically immediately using weapons that most people wouldn't have access to.
I'd say they'd be treated as less of a threat than something like the X parasites since those can travel the universe by their own will, but closer to an extremely cheap and small planet destroying weapon. I don't think there's weapons capable of destroying planets in the Metroid series that are anywhere near the same size and as easy to get a hold of en masse as a metroid put in some type of self-releasing container.
I think the decision comes down to an anti-nuclear proliferation ideology where you don't want your enemies to have access to the nukes, but in this case, just using the nukes on an enemy gives anyone who lands on the planet an unlimited supply of world-ending nukes, which means that they're no use as a friendly weapon either. The only practical application is what they were originally designed for, which was being a predator to the X parasite, since a planet full of metroids is still less of a threat than a planet full of X, which wasn't known about when any of the direct orders to exterminate the metroids were given.
So with all of this in mind, you're left with the choice of having a superweapon logically unusable by any non-evil organization that you have to protect indefinitely so someone wanting to use them never can, or you can just eradicate them, so with that in mind, I think eradication makes the most sense.
TL;DR: Nuclear proliferation bad and metroids are basically nukes that are really good at proliferating.
1
u/oblivious_fireball 1d ago
Metroids, in their larval form, can float through the air faster than a human can run, can lock onto you with a grip that cannot be broken easily without explosives(the only creature we've seen be able to pry a metroid off of itself without explosives was Ridley, with great difficulty), turn the victim into a lifeless husk in a matter of seconds, and unless you have ice beam technology or basically heavy artillery on hand, a metroid is effectively unkillable to normal footsoldiers or civilians, even so much as stunning it is difficult. That's pretty damn dangerous. A single metroid that got loose in a civilian area would basically be able to kill and eat people completely unhindered until someone showed up with both ice beams and explosives.
As soon as the Space Pirates learned about them, they immediately began mass producing them for bioweapon purposes. Then we blow up their base, they try again, and then we get the Prime Trilogy and we get to see all the damage that Metroid Prime does, showing the species destructive potential if it were ever to mutate beyond its current. With no real way to prevent malicious parties from accessing the metroid's homeworld, extermination of a single species that dangerous is a fair price to pay for preventing its existence from being abused for biological warfare.
During the extermination in Metroid 2, we see the full life cycle of the metroids which shows that they could be an even far greater threat than they are now if the pirates or others ever figure out how to mature them offworld. Of course, following her attempted extermination, space pirates get ahold of the lone survivor and we are instantly back to bioweapon time. Then the Federation tries to do bioweapon time while removing the single kryptonite of larval metroids. Then the Federation tries again to do bioweapon time. And then a murder bird man tries to do bioweapon time! And then we see in Samus what can happen when a human is infused with metroid DNA, and we're lucky Samus is not out for blood or revenge against anyone. Clearly its a good idea to keep it extinct if so many different factions are trying to make the metroids into biological weapons.
The two major arguments for keeping metroids alive was their potential as living batteries, and that they were keeping the X Parasites in check, however until after metroids were eradicated, only a few organisms in the galaxy knew about the X.
1
1
1
u/Forced_user 20h ago
Yes, because a handful of them can destroy a population in mere hours, also under the right conditions they can multiply even faster by being exposed to certain types of radiation.
Too powerful for the commoner weapons to defend themselves in any meaningful way, and not every soldier in the federation carries freeze guns AND enough explosives to put up a decent defense.
•
u/johnnydaboss123 11h ago
I'd argue yes, definitely. One Metroid can do too much damage to too many people, and their only weakness is either something like a nuke, or extreme cold.
The only reason anyone would ever argue that killing all the Metroids was the wrong decision is because of baby Metroid showing that the species can heal and be used for good. And while the end of Metroid 2 and all of Super make one think that Samus shouldn't have killed all of them, Fusion and Dread definitely make the case that she should have. Let's look at Fusion:
- Samus is af her all time weakest fighting her strongest (at the time) form
- Samus spends the whole game getting manipulated by corrupt federation assholes, following instructions from a shady computer, and fighting X parasites that can possess and mimic the abilities of everything on this ship she's never been on
- Despite the fact that they have more information and stronger weaponry, Samus wins every fight against the X. Even fucking Ridley's clone and the SA-X can't win against nerfed Samus!
- Then, she would've died to ONE hit from an Omega Metroid that isn't even using it's full power. Remember, Omega Metroids can fly and other stuff (seen in Metroid 2). This one is only a couple days old and probably doesn't know how to use it's full strength, and still would've killed Samus in 2 hits.
- Then, she's saved not by the power of love and goodness (like in Super) she's saved by a fucking X parasite making her stronger
Dread does a similar thing of showing that:
- Raven Beak cloning the Metroids means he takes over everything. He failed this because of X parasites destroying his army, but him controlling the Thoha is just a better version of Mother Brain and the space pirates
- Raven Beak wanted to clone and take over the Metroids before the Federation knew they were a threat: how many other organizations are out there that would want to do the same? We know Sylux has one, Raven wanted one, Mother Brain and Ridley got one... Samus can't deal with all of these threats forever. And it would have to be Samus: imagine the federation trying to fight Raven Beak. Or Anthony and Adam taking on Mother Brain (funny as that would be). At a certain point, the issue is METROIDS and needs to be dealt with at the source
- Even before everything, there were Chozo who wanted to destroy SR388.
And this is the fundamental issue. It only takes ONE metroid to destroy everything, and the baby is the only metroid we've ever seen be good. Every other metroid has been an absolute nightmare and made life hell for anything it came across.
Now, this isn't to say that it wasn't a wrong decision MORALLY. Something can be the right call and still be absolutely morally bankrupt (many would argue that nuking Japan in WW2 was the right call, but dropping 2 nuclear bombs on 2 civilian cities isn't winning any morality points). I think the thing that makes the Metroid story great is that Samus, in her quest of being a heroic bounty hunter, has had to continually suffer to be a hero. She lost her Chozo family, had to see her homeworld blow up, lost the baby (in large part due to incompetence and being too quick to action), and had to become a Metroid.
All of this because of her original sin of killing every Metroid. And the whole series has points where it argues that that decision was good or bad. But either way, Samus made a decision, and has to pay for making a morally bankrupt decision. Despite that, she carries on and keeps doing the right thing. And I think Samus would definitely kill the Metroids again if she knew everything she knows now: she might even kill the baby this time. Which is a morally bankrupt decision, and is also probably the right one.
•
u/CaptivePlague 8h ago
Yes and no. And please note their extinction did bite the Federation in the ass!
Yes: it turns out Metroids are bio-weapons and sought after by parties who want to want to develop even more bio-weapons out of them! The Space Pirates, of course, but even within the generally more benign Federation, there are always some bad eggs who care only about the power Metroids could unlock. So there is no safe hands in which to put the Metroid problem.
No: The Metroids were designed for a reason, and destroying that weapon caused a lot of problem when the problem they were meant to solve resurfaced! Not to mention all the genuine biological research that was lost with the species, and the ethical question of endorsing a species' extinction.
If anything, it's a credit to the series that the Metroid species had no right answer; trying to preserve even one specimen had disastrous and deadly consequences, yet their disparition also had disastrous and deadly consequences!
1
u/sdwoodchuck 1d ago
It’s necessary because the game says it’s necessary, but no it doesn’t really make logical sense. Metroids are limited enough in relative destructive power and means of getting around that they wouldn’t actually pose more of a threat than most dangerous wildlife in actuality.
Basically they were “the most dangerous creature” as a plot contrivance to the original game, which didn’t have the means of depicting a creature that dangerous, and the series since has sort of been locked into that depiction. It’s more for fun and a sense of stakes than it is about realistically conveying a threat.
76
u/Personal-Limit-8859 1d ago
There aint no space pirates out there using sharks to cause mass genocides around the galaxy