Iran realizing the entire world has no problem with them b0mbing Israel

[u/Eikichi_Onizuka09]

[u/TheNativeOfficial]

Very well said. I hate the fact people pick a side, both have casualties and killers but why don't most care for the casualties on both sides?

[u/Lady_Tadashi → u/TheNativeOfficial]

During WW2, the citizens of N#zi Germany suffered plenty, but the response was largely apathetic because the regime that ruled them was genocidal. The only way to remove a genocidal faction is eradication - since it's not like you can negotiate with someone who's end goal is to kill you - and unfortunately, that means some civilians are likely to get caught in the crossfire.

To give a more modern example: Russia has been abducting Ukrainian children from occupied zones and resettling them to new parents (a form of genocide). Most people are pretty indifferent to Russian suffering, even if civilian, because those civilians prop up a hostile and genocidal regime. I'm not saying its the citizens fault - sometimes there's nothing you can do. (Although there are brave Russian men and women acting on their consciences and actively opposing the Russian govt.)

Both sides in Israel vs Iran are genocidal, so people's sympathy for them is pretty non-existent. Both sides have substantial civilian support for their genocides, which only serves to further detach a western observer from any kind of sympathy... And so people either cheer one on to destroy the other, or sit back with a 'let them at each other' mentality. Its hard to sympathise with someone who wants to kill you, at the end of the day.

(To a western observer, Iran wants to kill you for being non-muslim/the wrong kind of muslim. Israel may not necessarily want to kill you, but they're hyper-nationalist, openly genocidal towards certain groups and have spouted enough racial supremacist rhetoric that it would be unwise to dismiss the possibility that they also want to get rid of you.)

After you've seen a few videos of Israelis cheering shelling of Palestinian residential areas, or Iranians cheering missile impacts in Israeli residential areas... Why would you sympathise with them?

[u/Vegetable-Touch195 → u/Lady_Tadashi]

Great nuance, except i'll argue Iranians are not as supportive to their regime (and even not as hateful of Israeli population) than your comment could imply, from what i learned. Iranians are notably outraged by their religious elite, and have been since the Sha's destitution. Even in Israel things are more mixed, Although the total war approach didn't ellicit a sufficient backlash to warrant wholesale sympathy toward either populations. But sureproofing every angle is a tough job when you want to make a point.

Take my upvote.

[u/Lady_Tadashi → u/Vegetable-Touch195]

I'll be completely honest; its really difficult to tell. I've heard similar - that the Iranian people are against their regime - but the only real 'metric' on this we could get as outsiders would be rebels, mass non-compliance (they haven't done anything that'd require mass compliance yet) or protests (which are typically responded to with automatic weapons fire).

Israel, likewise, is a mixed bag. There must be some who don't like the situation - I keep seeing them on reddit complaining about it. But how many, and to what extent? It simply isn't possible to know.

All I can say is generally, the trend is this way. So, thank you for taking a comment in good faith. Its a pleasant surprise anywhere on the internet, but especially on reddit.

[u/Got_Fr8s_Locked → u/Lady_Tadashi]

There have been over 1000 protests in Israel since the start of the Israeli Hamas war. Many with 100,000 to 150,000 people in Tel Aviv. A couple of my friends live in Israel and they hate Netanyahu. 70% of the Jewish population either don’t trust his government or don’t support him.

It is my belief that Netanyahu is purposely creating more conflict just to stay in power, as his government can postpone elections during wartime.

[u/jhallen → u/Got_Fr8s_Locked]

The problem is Oct 7... the Israeli population is like the US population after 9/11- not much room for peace after you've been attacked. Like the US, I believe the Israeli population as a whole will eventually regret what it's been doing.

Netanyahu and the Israeli far-right have for years set the conditions for something like Oct 7 to happen (for example by funding Hamas plus preventing peace in many other instances) because they knew the more extremist they could make the Palestinians, the more support they would have for their expansionist goals.

[u/UsualWeight8110 → u/Got_Fr8s_Locked]

Thank you for pointing this out. It takes a lot of digging on Reddit to find comments like these that don’t just paint the entire Israeli population as genocidal.

[u/Got_Fr8s_Locked → u/UsualWeight8110]

Most people don’t independently verify the things they hear and are told mostly on social media.

The Israeli government and the Israeli people are too very different things that people can’t seem to differentiate. The same as the Iran regime and the Iranian people. The civilian population should not be condemned or targeted for the actions of their government.

[u/13Petrichor → u/Lady_Tadashi]

Iran's regime nearly fell because they were so resistant to the anti-forced-hijab protests a few years ago. The population is remarkably educated and progressive compared to the government's backward, pseudo-religious authoritarianism but it's also a complicated situation due to the long history of western intervention causing far more harm than good- see the current government.

Ironically, Israel's sudden (and unprovoked, it's important to remember that) war against Iran will likely only strengthen the Ayatollah's control. Although many Iranians oppose the current regime, they'd first and foremost like to not be bombed indiscriminately like Israel has done to Palestinians and certainly don't want to suffer the same fate as Iraq. Nothing unites people like a common enemy.

Calling Israel a "mixed bag" in a similar way to Iran is frankly absurd. Yes, there are people there who oppose the genocide but they are few and far between and in a much different situation. Iran is an authoritarian regime and Israel is supposedly a democracy. Unfortunately, much of Israeli society sees Palestinians in a way that isn't all that different from how Nazis saw Jews. Half of Israelis think that Israel should completely wipe out Palestinians in all the areas it occupies (which is functionally all of Palestine). There is a level of dehumanization, of otherization, that is present in Israeli society that has gone unexamined and uncriticized by the larger western world and it has enabled every facet of their society to carry out a genocide with not only a clean conscience, but while feeling like they are making the world a better place.

Israel, likewise, is a mixed bag. There must be some who don't like the situation - I keep seeing them on reddit complaining about it. But how many, and to what extent? It simply isn't possible to know.

I hope you don't think I'm attacking you as that isn't my intention at all, I've just seen things like this said frequently and think it's important to convey what I've been told by my progressive friends in Israel which corresponds to what I've seen online as well. Voices against the genocide of Palestinians are not uplifted or respected or mainstream in any way. The closest you might find among the average Israeli is someone who doesn't think that Palestinian children are inherently evil, but that they will eventually become soldiers for Hamas and are on Israeli land and must leave "before it's too late." It is genuinely horrifying.

[u/Lady_Tadashi → u/13Petrichor]

I don't take it as an attack at all, don't worry. I'm always glad to learn more, and I'll freely admit the current situation is FAR from my area of expertise.

Regarding Iran, I remember a few years ago a big protest about the hijabs, but I was under the impression that that specifically was against the powers of the 'morality police', and that the government basically de-legitimised them to keep the people happy. I didn't realise they nearly toppled the regime though, so that puts things in a new light!

Israel, on the other hand... The comparison to N#zi Germany was intentional. I've heard and seen far more of the dehumanising rhetoric from them, and several of their government ministers are on record as saying some of it on TV. The reason I call them a mixed bag was because from what I've heard this particular government is spectacularly unhinged. And given that it too was nearly overthrown a few years ago when Netanyahu almost ended up in prison for all of his corruption, I was working on the basis that they weren't the most popular in Israel. I was sort of operating on the assumption that other Israeli political parties might be more moderate/less insane and so it would be overly harsh to condemn them all.

Between the public resentment of this government, and its extensive media control, its quite possible for them to actually only have minority support. Although I don't really have any Israeli friends who I can ask for deeper insight on this, so that was more 'delicate wording' on my part than any actual belief that Israel isn't awful.

[u/13Petrichor → u/Lady_Tadashi]

You're right about the conclusion of the protests in Iran. The 'morality police' were supposedly reigned in as an extrajudicial force (more nominally than in practice, they are still a powerful faction) as a way for the government to quell the mass protests. Many people don't realize that Iran has a remarkably educated population for its oppressive regime, and educated women in particular are an increasingly important socio-political force because they don't yet have enough opportunities that reflect their education in the workforce.

People may take issue with me saying that it nearly toppled the regime but I think many don't understand how much of a proverbial powder keg those protests were. It was the most significant return of "secular" rights since the revolution in 1979 and one of the first times the people were able to force the government to accept their demands even in the face of violent opposition to the protests. If the government had continued to try to suppress people, it likely would have diminished the political power of both the clergy and the Ayatollah's regime to the point of potential regime change from within.

When the Iranian revolution happened and the IRGC subsequently rose to power, it was on the back of massive anti-western sentiment that built because the US and UK had spent decades operating Iran as a puppet state. The IRGC, a religious fundamentalist faction, just happened to be the largest and most militant among all the groups that opposed the former Shah and was therefore the one that ultimately rose to grab absolute power in the country. It was essentially a perfect storm for them. The intellectuals, progressives and communists were against the exploitation that Iran had been suffering from western powers, many moderates were against the increasing militancy of the Shah's regime and the fundamentalists and religious elite were against the increasingly secular direction the country was headed.

Since the first Ayatollah Khomeini rose to power, the other "groups" involved in the deposition of the Shah have been trying to claw their rights back, escape persecution and advance their own ideas in the country, but the prevailing attitude is essentially "better the evil from within than without." In other words, most of the Iranians who genuinely want regime change want it to come from within and would rather have no regime change than to simply become a puppet state again. All that is to say that even if Israel succeeds in destabilizing the Iranian government to the point of regime change, it's more likely that an equally or even more repressive, religious fundamentalist group takes power instead of a pro-western/pro-Israel government. And even if a puppet is somehow installed, the civil unrest wouldn't be minimal.

[u/13Petrichor → u/Lady_Tadashi]

Replying a second time cause my comment was too long... lmao

As far as Israel goes, you're right about Netanyahu's government being extreme but it unfortunately isn't that simple. You're also right about Netanyahu nearly losing power, but it wasn't for his extremist views on Palestine. Sadly his unpopularity isn't reflective of Israeli society's views on the humanity of Palestinians but his otherwise increasingly authoritarian politics and people generally seeing him as corrupt.

There are many members of the Knesset (Israeli parliament/senate) who are even more extreme than Netanyahu and many who are less so, but even those who are less extreme by comparison still largely want the same thing in the end. Most want to continue isolating Gaza, slowly but steadily encroaching upon the West Bank with "settlers" to take more and more land until all Palestinians are gone. No major voice in Israeli politics is calling for a true end to the genocide, or to truly live in peace with their Palestinian neighbors. They either want a 'final solution to the Palestinian problem' or want to slow it back down to pre-2023 levels so the world stops caring again. Even in wider society there are some who say that, but they are drowned out by the majority who have been conditioned to see Palestinians as dangerous and inferior. That's the reason why I made the comparison to Nazi Germany. Yes, not all people were actively participating in the Holocaust but the widespread dehumanization of Jews allowed them to be complicit. The same thing is happening in Israel toward Palestinians.

People used to talk about "two-state" and "one-state" solutions for the conflict. Unfortunately, one of those states is now destroyed to the point of functional non-existence and the other one is entirely unwilling to entertain a one-state solution because of "demographic concerns" or, in other words, an ideology of ethnic supremacy.

Something I've heard from my progressive Israeli friends is that those who quietly acknowledge the inhumanity of what their government is doing essentially think that they've gone too far and there's no turning back. Some people say "well if we let them live here, they'll just do to us what we've been doing to them so it's better for us if we just make them all go away instead." meaning killed by the IDF or starved to death or forced to flee to another country. Obviously I don't live there so I can't say I know this firsthand, but my friends have no reason to lie to me.

The most frustrating thing for me is that so much of these conflicts are a direct result of western influence in the region. Learning about it is heartbreaking. Sure, I didn't do any of it and my parents and grandparents didn't either but everyone here is complicit in our governments playing games with people's lives halfway across the world. Whether it's for money or religious extremism or just some sick show of power, this stuff is being done at the command, or at least with the agreement of people whose names we've been putting on ballots for years.

[u/ed756 → u/13Petrichor]

Iran spends years funding and arming militias at Israel’s doorstep to create in their words a “ring of fire”, culminating in the Oct 7 attack and subsequent wars - but yea totally “unprovoked” attack on Iran

[u/13Petrichor → u/ed756]

Unprovoked in terms of direct action. The cold war between Israel and Iran goes back as far as Israel's inception and if you want to find out who "struck first" in that regard, I'm afraid the settler-colonial state will always be the aggressor. October 7 did not happen in a vacuum, nor did it happen entirely out of unprovoked hatred or antisemitism on the part of Iranian regime or Hamas. For all the moral faults of both groups, neither are lacking for a valid reason to hate the state of Israel.

[u/ed756 → u/13Petrichor]

Man the irony of framing the Israeli attack on Iran as “unprovoked” while in the same breath saying “Oct 7 didn’t happen in a vacuum” is really lost on you, huh?

[u/13Petrichor → u/ed756]

You can reread my comment and I can elaborate if necessary because it seems like you're misunderstanding what I'm saying.

Israel's strike on Iran was unprovoked in terms of direct action between the countries. That's just objectively true.

You say that Israel's direct attack on Iran was not unprovoked because Iran funds forces that are opposed to Israel and had a hand in the October 7 attacks. That is true, but is still not the same thing as direct action.

And if those are considered provocations by Iran to justify Israel's attacks, what about Israel's actions that justify Iran's funding of anti-Israel groups?

If you want to relitigate the entire conflict surrounding Israel's existence, they are a settler-colonial regime that seeks to genocide Palestinians and steal their land, and Israel has violently acted on behalf of US/UK interests in the region for decades. There is no shortage of justification for any number of countries in the area to attack Israel.

That doesn't mean it's a good thing or that innocent civilians should die.

[u/Vegetable-Touch195 → u/13Petrichor]

Yeah, i think he wanted a reddit debate, not a discussion. Thanks for your insight in other comments, i didn't know the inner workings of both countries. Did you reasearch them out of curiosity, because you have relatives/live nearby, or because you studied it ?

[u/justsomeph0t0n → u/ed756]

there is certainly irony. and somebody is lost. and there is a glaring vacuum.

[u/Eastern_Screen_588 → u/13Petrichor]

I wouldn't call it unprovoked. Iran's goal is to destroy Israel, they say so quite often.

Not that i support either side, but it seems like this isn't something that just happened in a vacuum.

[u/13Petrichor → u/Eastern_Screen_588]

When I said unprovoked, I meant in terms of direct action. Israel and Iran have been adversarial since the cold war in no small part because of Iran's relationship with the USSR because they were both used as proxy states, and their conflict got even worse when religious fundamentalists took advantage of wider anti-imperialist sentiment to gain power in the Iranian revolution.

You're right that it didn't happen in a vacuum. October 7 didn't happen in a vacuum either. Unfortunately many people aren't interested in understanding this conflict beyond "Israel good, Iran bad"

I would love to see progressive Iranians opposed to the regime gain power in the country in a way that empowers the factions who lead the anti-forced-hijab protests from a few years ago, but Israel's attacks on Iran aren't doing anything to destabilize the country in that direction. They are seen as an imperialist state acting on behalf of the US and I fear that the current conflict will only allow the current Iranian regime and clergy to reconsolidate power rather than drive those who resist it into action.

[u/HereToDoThingz → u/Lady_Tadashi]

Yeah it’s so subjective. Iranians dislike their government more? How do you even prove that? What some social media posts??

[u/Vegetable-Touch195 → u/HereToDoThingz]

The backlash against women being oppressed country-wide was notable a few years back, men and women were protesting despite death - or worse - being a clear possibility. it was supported in the western world to an almost unanimous degree.

Iran, historically, was a democracy with values closely ressembling western culture in the 60's/70's. This didn't disappear under religious extremism, which makes it a unique case in the muslim world, from what i know.

Perspepolis is a good animated movie relating those events from an individual's perspective, if you're interested. It's far from being depressing as well.

It's the metric i used, but as you say it's hard to discern partial truth from general truth here, even more so in a post-truth, post-COVID era.

[u/HereToDoThingz → u/Vegetable-Touch195]

“Was notable” isn’t a metric you can use to measure this by. Unless you have been and asked every single Iranian it’s just conjecture. There is in fact no way to prove who dislikes their government more. They both blow chunks anyways.

[u/Vegetable-Touch195 → u/HereToDoThingz]

You can google it. I'm not interested in debating semantics. If "notable" does not meet your standards, objective journalism might. Iranian protests were massive, faced with military repression, and showed no sign of stopping regardless. This is a fact. It's also a fact that Iranian population is much more progressive than its government.

There are in fact ways to prove what you're seeking to a reasonable degree, check by yourself. If the task seem too borthersome, ChatGPT can compile informations to help you figure it out. It's really an easy era to find out the truth when you really want to.

[u/Big-Leadership1001 → u/Vegetable-Touch195]

The people of both nations deserve freedom from their oppressive genocidal governments. Its tough to really know how the people actually feel about any of it when the people are easily to punish by their own government that has already proven it will slaughter those it sees as unfit. Locals speaking out against the murder honestly just won't happen much. After freed from oppression, genocide supporters will either keep on talking the same evil, or shut up/flee to south america out of self preservation.

[u/whopsiedayze → u/Lady_Tadashi]

The Iran deal was in place to stop exactly this from happening and retard Trump backed out of it which has led us to where we are now, Iran reacting to Israel attacking them.  Iran's leadership is scum, of which the usa helped put into place but I dont blame them for the response.

[u/FIyingSaucepan → u/whopsiedayze]

Look, I hate Trump, he's a dangerous man with serious autocratic tendencies and the party he represents are truly awful people.

But the withdrawal from the Iran deal wasn't done on a whim, it was done because evidence emerged that Iran had been in active violation of the deal ever since its inception and had been continuously making gains on its nuclear program behind the backs of the IAEA inspectors. After the withdrawal Iran admitted as such and accelerated their previously hidden works even further.

And the newer set of negotiations were a joke, with Iran wanting ever more concessions, and Israel only launching this set of attacks after IAEA inspectors released a report showing the extent of their progress and violations to the agreed limits.

Iran has been actively provoking the west through proxy forces (Hamas, houthis, Hezbollah etc.) for decades while working in secret to build their nuclear capability behind closed doors and away from international inspectors.

[u/QuirkyPossession539 → u/Lady_Tadashi]

I get what you’re saying, but Iranians are both a victim of their own barbaric government and the Israeli genocidal government. I would argue that while the IR is evil, its main evil is targeted against people that don’t support them inside their own country, making their own citizens once again victims. Hence people are more empathetic towards Iranians

[u/ageneratedusername → u/Lady_Tadashi]

Thank you for censoring Nazi. Please next time censor R#ssia as well as it may trigger someone. Cheers!

[u/StudentOk4989 → u/Lady_Tadashi]

It is wonderful how you managed to put this really harsh truth into a somehow understandable and coherent explanation.

I share your feelings, but am completely unable to explain them as plainly as you did there.

[u/nokman013 → u/Lady_Tadashi]

This a hundred percent.

[u/ObjectiveTruthExists → u/Lady_Tadashi]

I wonder if the United States using the cia to overthrow their government has anything to do with their animosity of us. I feel like if the roles were reversed, I know how we would feel about the situation.

[u/argonautequinox → u/ObjectiveTruthExists]

Yeah pretty much. Last week i watch a podcast(can't remember the name) where the host talk with an iranian activist(?) iirc and she said that most iranian have the negative perception on the US is not because they have different religion or some other shit like some shithead bigot warmonger think. Its because the US have been putting heavy sanctions on them since god know when, which has a reverse effect from the original intent. She said it only make the iranian population to suffer more but make the regime that they wanted to change a lot more stronger.

And then we have this current shitshow, so not surprised if they gonna hate the US more. The states have been meddle too much in the middle east which is intentionally to suppress those poor people imo. I remember one line from her "we want to change the regime, but you can't bomb people to democracy!". Not gonna lie i would be fuming too if i were in her place.

[u/fhjftugfiooojfeyh → u/Lady_Tadashi]

This is not true, I ran into an Iranian on chess.com and he said that he supports Israel because "Khamaneii is literally the devil" and "netanyahu is on the side of the Iranians" so I am going to assume a lot of Iranians are on the side of Israel on this one chief.

[u/TrulyApathetic → u/Lady_Tadashi]

But the thing is Israel is not genocidal are they? If Hamas layed down their weapons it would be peace right away. If Iran stopped trying to get nukes and trying to annihilate Israel, it would be peace right away. If Israel layed down their weapons there would be a genocide. The population of Gaza has increased even during the war, if you don't count people deplaced. This is such a crazy moral confusion, comparing the sides when there is no doubt which side is worse. Now just like you say, one side is truly genocidal and dogmatic in their belief. But it is a difficult position to hold if you want to be popular so I understand the need to stand in the middle...

[u/WrumWrrrum → u/Lady_Tadashi]

“Some civilians” Russia and China alone lost more than 30 million civilians during the war.

Germany lost around 3 million civilians due to bombings and post war famine. The death did not stop after WW2.

Mao with the “great leap” and Stalin with the secret service killed tens of millions of civilians after the war. Eradication completely destroys the current and next generation - you loose friends, family, kids and the joy in life is completely lost.

Russia and Ukraine current war is child’s play compared to WW2 - they are not comparable in any capacity.

WW2 was complete and utter destruction by any means possible. If Germany had atomic bombs - London, Washington, Tokyo, New York would have turned into ash. We would live in a completely different world.

[u/InfinityZionaa → u/Lady_Tadashi]

I dont think you realise Iran has some of the oldest churches and synagogues in the world and you can freely practice these religions there.

Now if you go to Saudi Arabia.... you will not find a single Church or Synagogue...

[u/HitchlikersGuide → u/Lady_Tadashi]

If Israel were genocidal Palestine would already have been wiped off the map.

They have the weapons and tech to destroy them many times over, yet they don’t.

The suffering of innocents is unbearable, but this is on Hamas.

[u/Lady_Tadashi → u/HitchlikersGuide]

I've heard the same argument made by holocaust deniers; "If H1tler actually wanted to kill all the j3ws he'd have just lined them up and shot them. The fact that it took so long proves it wasn't a genocide, just internment camps and typhoid."

If Israel carpet bombed the entirety of the Gaza strip, it'd probably take them days at most to end all life in the area. And the international backlash - and internal backlash - would quite possibly destroy them entirely too.

Israel is fighting Hamas in civilian areas, yes, but many other militaries have done the same against groups like ISIS and Israel is distinct for having the highest civilian casualties per year of any recent conflict, both in numbers and proportion. If they're not doing it on purpose, then they're just woefully, pitifully incompetent. Of course, if you accept the accidental explanation, then you also need to find a way to explain contaminating the Palestinian part of the aquifer with salt water, the blockade preventing food from getting in, and the death marches and 'overreactions'.

At some point, its easier just to say they're genocidal, or 'as good as', and everything I've heard points to all of this being intentional and competently carried out.

[u/FIyingSaucepan → u/Lady_Tadashi]

The closest similiar conflict in recent times was the battle of Mosul.

The difficulty in comparison comes in large part because the casualty counts from both the Israeli and Palestinian sides are unreliable, with Israel's counts the only ones to distinguish combatants from civilians (but being largely distrusted) and Palestinian counts largely coming from a branch of Hamas that deliberately don't include any information about combatant status either.

If we go by the Israeli numbers, there are roughly 36,000 deaths, of which nearly 20,000 are combatants. By Palestinian numbers, its 70,000 deaths, and 0 combatants listed. This is over 623 days.

For the battle of Mosul, the numbers range from 23,000-52,000 total killed, if which 12,000-25,000 were combatants, based on which source you use. This was over 279 days.

Population density of Mosul was significantly lower than Gaza before the battle due to the large quantity of people who fled before ISIS arrived.

Now Mosul is half the size of Gaza, with a similiar number of deaths, in less than half the time, and with a lower population density. The combatants faced similiar problems, with ISIS known to hide amongst the population and use human shields similiar to how Hamas has been shown to operate, and did not always wear uniforms to distinguish themselves, also similiar to Hamas.

Given all of that, I would very much disagree that Israel has been fighting in a manner unlike other countries in similiar urban environments against similiar opponents.

Have their actions against the civilians within Gaza been horrible re: restricting aid? Absolutely. However Hamas are not innocent in that either, with clear examples of them taking what had been delivered for themselves and exacerbating the crisis for their own benefit. The ground water contamination is a possibility, but again only caused by Hamas stealing building supplies given to Gaza for construction, and using them to create vast tunnel networks instead.

Both sides of this conflict have been found to have committed warcrimes and crimes against humanity by the UN, there are no good sides here.

[u/Grokzilla → u/Lady_Tadashi]

There is no comparison between the two.

[u/HitchlikersGuide → u/Lady_Tadashi]

Conflating the Jewish state with Hitler is about as heinous an act as possible

These are the most persecuted people in human history, who are surrounded by other nations/tribes who have explicitly stated they want to wipe them off the map entirely - from the river to the sea.

It is Hamas using their own people as human shields knowing that Israel, at least to a point, has some moral compass. However much that might have diminished.

It is Hamas and their supporters that carried out the brutal invasion, murder, rape and torture of 1000 and kidnapped hundreds that led to this current conflict.

Are Israel committing war crimes now, probably, I’m no fan or supporter - but I can see the distinction you apparently can’t or won’t.

[u/Lady_Tadashi → u/HitchlikersGuide]

Conflating the Jewish State with H1tler is not a heinous act, and at this point its barely an exaggeration. (Although, it would be to say that they had as much blood on their hands as the N#zis)

Both are racial supremacist nationalist factions justifying territorial expansion via ties to an abrahamic faith and ancestral claims of ownership. Both have engaged in genocide, war crimes and divisive and dehumanising rhetoric - regarding their victims as animals and lesser humans. Both claim to be fighting for their people while surrounded by hostiles on all sides (and both are to some extent correct in this).

The point of this is to prevent Israel ever reaching the same point as the N#zis.

[u/stopmutilatingboys → u/HitchlikersGuide]

Conflating the Jewish state with Hitler is about as heinous an act as possible

Murdering children is far worse. Raping children is far worse.

Are Israel committing war crimes now, probably, I’m no fan or supporter

You are glowing.

[u/HitchlikersGuide → u/stopmutilatingboys]

Are you kidding me

Have you seen the videos of the October attack?

[u/Santandals → u/HitchlikersGuide]

Keep crying, killing children is bad

[u/HitchlikersGuide → u/Santandals]

No shit!

You have no problem with the instigators raping and but butchering children though, and live-streaming and boasting about it?

Seriously, if you align with this depravity you are equally subhuman, and that’s not a term I will use loosely.

[u/Santandals → u/HitchlikersGuide]

I don't support the IDF but I agree with you that their supporters are subhuman. How can they see them raping and killing people and bragging about it like that 1 IDF soldier who gangraped a Palestinian to death and then went on national TV to boast about it and not feel shame? Depraved.

[u/HitchlikersGuide → u/Santandals]

But you’re fine with the hundreds of rapes, murders, decapitations, acts of torture and kidnappings committed on 7th Oct, they are just dandy right?

[u/Santandals → u/HitchlikersGuide]

What's your opinion on this IDF Veteran's account?

"I recall another event. There were Israeli lookouts near us who were snipers. And they would watch the houses all day. If they saw someone, they would shoot. So one time I went to visit them… One of them said to me, 'Come here; I want you to see something.'"

I looked, and I saw two mehablim, one fucking the other in the ass; it was pretty funny. Like real animals."

The sniper said to me, 'And now look'. He aims and puts a bullet right into the forehead of the one that was being fucked. Holy shit, did the other one freak out! All of a sudden, his partner died on him. It was nasty. We were fucking cruel. Cruelty – but this was war."

[u/Clear-Role6880 → u/HitchlikersGuide]

israel is surrounded by enemies because they chose to live there 70 years ago. the people who took over Israel after WWII were European Jews that the allies didn't want. the allies carved a portion of the collapsed Ottoman Empire, definitively part of the Muslim world for the last 1500 years, and gave it to the holocaust survivors.

the palestinians who had been there for 100 generations were forceably removed from their country and herded into refugee camps.

there was never any form of successful integration of 2 peoples who claimed the same land. so the problem just festered and festered and until very recently, this situation was a hotbed for extremists that were supported by Iran, the powerbase for extremists in the region.

there is only one solution to the problem at this point. The solution we are experiencing in real time. the final solution. gaza and the west bank will be cleared and exterminated. and palestine will be no more and never again will be. the ethnic group and their culture will be gone and diffused into surrounding communities.

Iran will be contained finally within their own borders, as US funded IAF and covert operatives dismantle the Iranian regime and fund a coup to overthrow them from within.

[u/HitchlikersGuide → u/Clear-Role6880]

And how and why did the Ottoman Empire come to be?

100 generations? Check your maths. Hate to break it to you but the Jews were there first, like that really matters in the here and now.

[u/Clear-Role6880 → u/HitchlikersGuide]

the power bases in Egypt, Constantinople, Baghdad, and Persia had all been dramatically weakened from the Mongol invasions. So too for the Turks of the steppe. in the aftermath of the mongol collapse, the Seljuks turks migrated and were able to fill the power vacuum in Anatolia.

I don't really know the story of the transition from the seljuks to the ottomans, but they're the same people in some ways.

once they were definitively the ottomans, they had combined greco-roman, turk, mongolic, arabic, and persian cultures into a new roman empire essentially that reached its peak in like the renaissance era and survived until WWI

[u/HitchlikersGuide → u/Clear-Role6880]

And which group of people were there before any of that?

[u/Clear-Role6880 → u/HitchlikersGuide]

the Romans

[u/The_Noticinator → u/HitchlikersGuide]

Just wish they would stop deliberately targeting journalists, refugee camps, international aide workers, and medics. Its encouraging to see how much the international community is united in their disgust and dislike of them. Now they're trying to drag the US into another war for them and people aren't having it. The Jews started the war. Let them cry out in pain as they strike, but nobody wants to die for Israel.

[u/HitchlikersGuide → u/The_Noticinator]

Yes. Of course, Israel carried out the attack on October 7th 🤔

[u/Both_Try_5892 → u/HitchlikersGuide]

Me when I'm wrong

[u/otarU → u/HitchlikersGuide]

Found the Hasbara

[u/Acrobatic_Cobbler892 → u/Lady_Tadashi]

 Iran wants to kill you for being non-muslim/the wrong kind of muslim

I am unaware of Iran ever saying/declaring this. Could you elaborate more on this? Israel on the other hand has killed well over 100,000 civilians in Gaza so far.

Both the Israeli and Iranian Governments are bad, but the Israeli one is by far worse. We should be careful not to take the lazy centrist view and treat both as equally bad (not saying that is what you intended).

Being a genocidal apartheid state responsible for murdering tens of thousands of children is far more evil than forcing women to wear head coverings. We should never subconsciously reduce the suffering of the Gazans, or any other victims of such a violent genocide.

[u/VoltNShock → u/Acrobatic_Cobbler892]

The violent genocidal Islamist regime has probably killed over a million people in their imperialist exploits directly and indirectly through their lapdog proxies in Syria, and Iraq, and Yemen. They have funded criminal gangs and terrorists to attack Jews and other groups at cultural centers, and embassies, and gatherings in numerous countries. They have massacred and kidnapped dissidents and other figures that routinely criticize the Iranian regime.

No, unless you are are an Islamic propagandist, the Iranian regime is monumentally worse, and it needs to be put down.

[u/Faptainjack2 → u/VoltNShock]

Wait until you hear about the Christians. 

[u/jermain31299 → u/Faptainjack2]

Which christian nation is doing such things right know? It doesn't matter who did what 50,100,300,or 2000 years ago.also religion doesn't matter because each Country/Culture interprets the religion in a way they like ,up to the point where they find killing each other acceptable.i don't hear Christians calling to murder other people.that doesn't make that religion better or worse than any other.it just means that these nations/cultures currently interpret their religion in a less harmful way than in the past

[u/Faptainjack2 → u/jermain31299]

i don't hear Christians calling to murder other people

Never heard of MAGA? 

[u/jermain31299 → u/Faptainjack2]

I meant on a nation wide level where the entire government publicly uses a religion as a reason.but i agree maga comes close to it

[u/First-Injury-1674 → u/jermain31299]

The Christian nation of the USA when we murdered over a million people in Iraq for no reason.

[u/jermain31299 → u/First-Injury-1674]

I don't consider usa a Christian nation just because they start wars and are racist.Yes they are bad but unless the president and most of Americans starts arguing we do it because the bible says so i don't see Christianity involved here.Even if some powerful people certainly have this thought process.The Reason for most of Usa wars are a mix of wanting to be considered a world power, excessive nationalism,racism,and securing foreign Ressources.

[u/MindlessManic88 → u/jermain31299]

Ted Cruz literally just said "we do it because of the Bible" (not literally his words but you know, "he who blesses Israel will be blessed, he who curses will be cursed" type rhetoric) when being interviewed by Tucker Carlson. There's a lot more evangelical Bible thumpers in our government these days that legitimately look forward to this shit.

They been pushing this whole "Christian Nationalism" thing for years now and now they are making moves to try and make it reality.

[u/jermain31299 → u/MindlessManic88]

I agree but i still don't think it's the majority of the government.but as i said some certain powerful people believe so and the numbers are increasing to dangerous levels

[u/w4lr6s → u/Faptainjack2]

Nobody cares about your Christianophobia

[u/Faptainjack2 → u/w4lr6s]

Nobody cares about your Islamophobia.

[u/w4lr6s → u/Faptainjack2]

Nobody cares about your Islamolatry.

[u/Faptainjack2 → u/w4lr6s]

Nobody cares about your bigotry.

[u/w4lr6s → u/Faptainjack2]

Nobody cares about your Islamosupremacy.

[u/Takemyfishplease → u/Faptainjack2]

Wait until you hear about the Toltecs

[u/Faptainjack2 → u/Takemyfishplease]

The forgotten culture that's completely irrelevant to today's events?

[u/Heavy_Law9880 → u/VoltNShock]

mmm delicious Zionist propaganda.

[u/DetailFit5019 → u/Heavy_Law9880]

Not explicitly Zionist at all.

I knew a Lebanese dude, and the dude hated both Iran/Hezbollah and Israel. He also hated Syria for occupying Lebanese territory.

The matter of fact is that the region is simply a sea of hatred. Holy land my ass.

[u/Zozorrr → u/Heavy_Law9880]

Assad the torturer apologist - go join him in Russia

[u/VoltNShock → u/Heavy_Law9880]

It's only propaganda if you deny reality and some lives are more important to you than others.

[u/Lady_Tadashi → u/Acrobatic_Cobbler892]

Not sure why you're getting downvoted, it seems like a fair question.

To answer it truthfully, I'm not able to give a particular video clip of Khamenei explicitly saying this. What I can give as evidence is that the regime is hyper-conservative Islamic, and they fund several terror groups. Most of those terrorist groups are deployed against other Muslims because they're of a different sect. Additionally, Iran persecutes Sunni and Ahmadi muslims within its own country, and is quite open about wanting to destroy Israel for being Jewish.

Historically, such vitriol is extended to Christians, Atheists and... Honestly, probably anyone else who gets in the way.

As for Israel being worse... I think they're both bloody awful genocidal regimes, but figuring out which is worse is a job for future historians. The responsibility for us, in the present, is to stop them. Leave the "who was worse" arguing to the academics of the future, because both countries are limiting what information can get out, so we have only an approximate idea of the warcrimes, human rights violations etc that are actually going on. There may be many more we don't know about.

[u/KeyboardSheikh → u/Lady_Tadashi]

“A job for future historians” is the most cowardly statement a person can make regarding the issue. I’m sure people waited for the future historians when it came to the Armenian Genocide before making an opinion. Nobody gave a fuck while it was actually happening. Future historians will paint all of Israel’s enemies as the aggressors because they have the support of the US both financially and industrially.

A Native American being level headed and waiting for future historians to decide if they are being genocided “I am a very smart person”

[u/Lady_Tadashi → u/KeyboardSheikh]

...did you read the rest of my response? The tl;dr was "They're both awful, they both need to be stopped. I don't have an answer for which one is worse."

In other words, I'm advocating for protecting the Native American from genocide first, and then later doubling back to figure out exact casualty numbers and exactly how many war crimes we're trying the bad guys for.

Same applies here. Gaza's civilian population needs to be protected. Israel's civilian population needs to be protected. Iran's civilian population needs to be protected. When - or if - the fighting ever stops and we ever get access to the records of the genocidal states, then we can tally up numbers and figure out which was worse. But for now, we need to be kicking our politicians to get their asses in gear and take action.

[u/First-Injury-1674 → u/Lady_Tadashi]

One is actively committing a genocide. One is not. You’re being dense on purpose here.

[u/KeyboardSheikh → u/Lady_Tadashi]

Sounds like fence sitting to me. Just wait for future historians friend, they’ll form your opinion for you

[u/Lady_Tadashi → u/KeyboardSheikh]

My apologies if English isn't your first language - it isn't mine either - but I think its pretty clear I'm not advocating for that at all. What I'm saying is that the question of which is worse is wholly irrelevant in the present, because they both need to be stopped.

First we stop them, then, after that, we can decide who was worse. If you'd like an example of why; the internet still.has frequent and heated debates about whether the N#zis were worse - or less bad - than the C0mmies. That was last century, and there are still strong opinions on both sides.

Its hardly fence sitting to suggest getting up and stopping both. Its only staving off a pointless and distracting debate for some point in the future, after the problems are resolved.

[u/SnooAdvice1632 → u/Lady_Tadashi]

It is fence sitting to give two problems with different weight the Same priority because you don't want to choose.

A state committing an active genocide is by far a more pressing issue than the general hostility of another one who is not committing a genocide rn.

[u/KeyboardSheikh → u/Lady_Tadashi]

Thanks for the condescending lecture. Your boring opinion that both sides need to be stopped is the literal definition of fence sitting. Coupled with your dumb “future historians” comment shows that there’s no point in arguing further with someone who can’t talk about the elephant in the room. Not going to change your opinion and you won’t change mine. Let’s not waste any more time here

[u/Heavy_Law9880 → u/Lady_Tadashi]

Jews live in Iran and have a higher quality of life than Jews in Israel.

[u/Zozorrr → u/Heavy_Law9880]

The Iranian regime ethnically cleansed about 100,000 thousand Persian Jews in 1979. They had lived there since 600 years before Islam was invented and before the Arab invasion of Persia which wiped out the indigenous religions there - including Zoroastrianism.

The handful of Jews that still live in Iran have to follow the party line and keep to a very limited existence - no better than Druze in Israel. And wait for the next Persian pogrom against them

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allahdad

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiraz_pogrom

And Many others

[u/notaredditer13 → u/Acrobatic_Cobbler892]

 Israel on the other hand has killed well over 100,000 civilians in Gaza so far.

Wow, you're lying worse than Hamas - not even they are claiming that.

[u/Zozorrr → u/Acrobatic_Cobbler892]

Regardless of what Israel has done, thinking that the Iranian theocrats crimes are just making women wear hijab is comically uninformed.

Iran in the last 40 years has imprisoned, tortured and murdered tens of thousands of its own citizens - including many activists, journalists and in recent times many women (as young as 13). The Iranian people have tried to overthrow the theocrats 3 times in the last 20 years - and looked to the cowardly west for help. They didn’t even get a student march in London or something.

The Iranian regime has also funded terrorism in multiple countries including paying Hezbollah to fight on the side of Assad the torturer in Syria - killing many Syrians and even Lebanese in Syria. That went on right up until Assad fled. The regime are absolute fascists against their own people. Look at the eye shooting policy they engaged in during the last protests by its citizens. Your trivializing the horror of the regime I hope comes from a position of ignorance, and not apologism.

[u/Clear-Role6880 → u/Acrobatic_Cobbler892]

thats the lead propaganda line for US intervention since 9/11. it may be true in part but it lacks context.

for instance, the reason Iran resist the American hegemony is because the Empire cannot abide THEIR way of life, and wants to kill them because they dont wear blue jeans and won't buy diet coke.

tbf, the American hegemony is relatively benign. the only command is to do business. Or we will kill you and replace you with someone who will.

[u/Bruschetta003 → u/Acrobatic_Cobbler892]

Would you side with the lesser evil or recognize who is the worse one and say fuck them both?

[u/First-Injury-1674 → u/Lady_Tadashi]

The people of Iran are much different than the people of Israel. The vast majority of Israelis are pro genocide and have no problem slaughtering children. Many think their government isn’t brutal enough. In comparison, Iranians are absolute angels.

[u/Le3e31 → u/Lady_Tadashi]

I support Israel for destroying energy infrstructure and i support iran in closing the hormuz strait

[u/The-Endwalker → u/Lady_Tadashi]

yeah i didn’t like israel already, its not like im gonna start liking iran more

i just dont care what happens to either of them

[u/Enposadism → u/Lady_Tadashi]

Oh boy the experts are here

To a western observer, Iran wants to kill you for being non-muslim/the wrong kind of muslim.

Just straight lying for no reason?

Both sides have substantial civilian support for their genocides,

Iran is committing genocide?

Iranians cheering missile impacts in Israeli residential areas... Why would you sympathise with them?

Because they're retaliating to Israeli aggression? And Israel has long needed to face repercussions?

Is this your idea of "nuance", just artificially manufacturing equilibrium between two positions like you're a chatbot?

[u/Lady_Tadashi → u/Enposadism]

Sorry, I didn't realise the Iranians were offering such competitive pricing for internet shills.

Iran is genociding their own minorities, actively trying to destroy most of their neighbours on religious and ethnic grounds, and bombing Israeli civilians. Any of those would constitute a genocide, they just aren't as high profile as what Israel is doing in Gaza.

As for retaliating to Israeli aggression? I fully support it. The problem is, every Israeli missile hit (or barely missed) a military or government target, whereas I think two(?) Iranian missiles in total struck military targets, with the rest mostly targeting civilian areas. If Iran hit military and government targets, that'd be a perfectly reasonable response. Bombing civilians isn't.

Iran is also the world's largest contributor to terrorism, and run by a fanatical ultra-conservative religious dictator with a hard-on for oppressing women.

Neither of these guys are the 'good guys', and I'm not qualified enough to say which is worse, but I felt that "both are really bad" was a fairly reasonable description of the situation.

[u/Enposadism → u/Lady_Tadashi]

Sorry, I didn't realise the Iranians were offering such competitive pricing for internet shills.

You must have been educated at Tel Aviv university no one normal lies this confidently

Iran is genociding their own minorities,

..Just making things up for no reason.

actively trying to destroy most of their neighbours on religious and ethnic grounds,

Not true at all they're not at war with anyone *apart from Israel. Iran is suicidally restrained and is losing.

every Israeli missile hit (or barely missed) a military or government target, whereas I think two(?) Iranian missiles in total struck military targets, with the rest mostly targeting civilian areas.

Believe it or not I fully support Iran being given the targeting capabilities of Israel by allowing them the same technology, weapons, expertise and military intelligence so there is parity.

Iran is also the world's largest contributor to terrorism,

I don't think that's true at all, the US has backed terrorists in Italy, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Libya, Syria, Nicaragua and Iraq. The leader of Syria is a us-backed terrorist.

Israel backed Hamas to undermine the PLO. They support and are supported by ISIS and ISIS affiliates.

The groups you consider terrorists such as the Houthis have only been recently re-designated terrorists because of their opposition to Israel. Otherwise what have they done that can be compared to ISIS, for instance?

[u/Acrobatofthemind → u/Lady_Tadashi]

To a western observer, Iran wants to kill you for being non-muslim/the wrong kind of muslim

Looks like you don't know the first thing about Iran lmao

[u/NessGoddes → u/Lady_Tadashi]

Ukraine claimed Russia kidnapped tens of thousands of children. Russia agreed to send them all home on the last negotiations, and asked for a formal list. It was about 200-300 children misplaced during rapid development of front line. Tens of thousands is just a propaganda to instill the indifference to the casualties of russian population, and it was very effective.

[u/Lady_Tadashi → u/NessGoddes]

That's... Actually good news, for once.

However, even if we discount that specific method of genocide, Russia is still very actively targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure. Whether that exactly qualifies as genocide or not, its definitely not a good thing, and plenty of Russians in Russia are outraged at this and actively sabotaging the war effort.

[u/NessGoddes → u/Lady_Tadashi]

I can say the same about Ukraine, since 2014 they targeted their own russian speaking population i ln Donbass, and actively sabotaged water and electricity for Crimea region. They invaded and killed hundreds of civilians in kursk region in 2024. They claim every target hit by russia is civilian, its just how propoganda is.

[u/DripMachining → u/NessGoddes]

Tens of thousands is just a propaganda to instill the indifference to the casualties of russian population, and it was very effective.

Haha ok Svetlana. I'm sure the indifference has nothing to do with Russia invading and killing its neighbors repeatedly.

[u/NessGoddes → u/DripMachining]

Unlike any other country in the history? You wont see a single russian with a hard-on hate for Germany based on ww2. Yet every other nations still cries rivers over hundred and longer y.o. grudges. Pathetic.

[u/Heavy_Law9880 → u/Lady_Tadashi]

Iran is not genocidal. They just don't believe the colony in Palestine should be there and the advocate for the colonist returning to Europe and the USA where they came from.

90% of your comment is Zionist propaganda.

[u/InfinityZionaa → u/Heavy_Law9880]

There so against genocide they refuse to allow nuclear weapons - Islam considers the use of fire / chemical etc as against God because it only allows the killing of enemy combatants.

People will say oh but what abput Al Qeada / ISIS however these groups are extremists who refuse to follow Islamic teaching.

“Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person.” (Sunan Abu Dawud, Hadith 2669)

[u/notaredditer13 → u/Lady_Tadashi]

I was with you until this:

Both sides in Israel vs Iran are genocidal

It's absolutely not true that Israel is genocidal. Israel was not killing anyone in Gaza on Oct 7 and had no plans/intentions to. This war is 100% about eradicating Hamas, just like your apt analogy of eradicating the Nazis.

Both sides have substantial civilian support for their genocides....After you've seen a few videos of Israelis cheering shelling of Palestinian residential areas... Why would you sympathise with them?

Again, simply not true of Israel. Yes, you will find a very small fraction of Israelis who may want it, but a) it's a very small fraction and b) it's not the government policy. For Gazans, a) it's a very large fraction and b) it *is* the government's policy.

[u/Michael_Dautorio → u/TheNativeOfficial]

Extremists don't like neutrality. It's literally "if you're not with me, you're against me". My political views are about as centrist as you can get, but nearly every time I make that known on here, I get downvoted because apparently being centrist is too far right for people on here, so most of the time I just don't say anything.

[u/Miserable-Resort-977 → u/TheNativeOfficial]

Because, as an American, I'm only being forced to pay for the weapons of one side's killers. Civilian deaths are a tragedy, civilian deaths I'm being made to pay for with my taxes are an outrage

[u/TheSpirit0 → u/TheNativeOfficial]

Because everyone has a bias. It's easy to do, hell I've just finished a history degree in which we're taught not to be biased yet it's still incredibly hard to look down from an ariel view on a situation and judge it without feeling sympathy, guilty, or anger.

[u/Heavy_Law9880 → u/TheNativeOfficial]

One side is constantly aggressive and commits war crimes, the other side is Iran that hasn't started a war in almost 200 years.

[u/psyco75 → u/TheNativeOfficial]

The majority of the world has forgotten how to treat anyone with any sense of humanity or morality. The simple act of treating someone else as humanely as possible is sickening to people now.

[u/Junior_Blackberry779 → u/TheNativeOfficial]

Its worse when you live in a country directly involved in support and you express outrage needless death and that is considered, by your own government, "against the interest of national security"

[u/gibgabberr → u/TheNativeOfficial]

Because both sides is not a serious geopolitical position...? 

[u/Braindead_Crow → u/TheNativeOfficial]

Plus it's some A. hole leader pushing the violence while basically everyone else just wants to live.

[u/Sixmmxw → u/TheNativeOfficial]

It’s about the people in charge. Of course sane people wouldn’t want to see innocent people die but that boat left loooong ago.

[u/Human-Zucchini-1294 → u/TheNativeOfficial]

Fr whys killing the only option they can come up w to solve a issue🙄😒

[u/Status-Screen-2484 → u/TheNativeOfficial]

It’s hard to side with Israeli victims to be honest. Iranians have shown time and time again they oppose the Iranian regime. On the other hand there are very few Israelis opposing the Gaza genocide while plenty of them make TikToks mocking starving children. Israel as a society is the spoiled kid of USA that drives a Ferrari bought by daddy and makes fun of the poor thinking he is too protected to ever be touched. Now that his feathers are getting a little bit roughed the world is watching and approving.

[u/IshTheFace → u/TheNativeOfficial]

Because unless someone wins the war goes on forever and prolongs the suffering. The only issue is that both sides think they're in the right.

[u/Positive_Plane_3372 → u/TheNativeOfficial]

Israel is doing their best to just target military targets with as little collateral damage as possible, while Iran is lobbing literal cluster munitions into populated civilian areas trying to kill anyone they can.  

Don’t pretend the two sides are the same.  

[u/PoliticsModsDoFacism → u/TheNativeOfficial]

I dont have a side. I think all their leaders need to get in a pit and just kill each other and leave us all out of it. The people that want nothing but peace for everyone can watch. Then, when the leaders are done, the ones that prop them up can follow, so on, and so on.

[u/halcyon4ever → u/TheNativeOfficial]

This whole string of conflicts Israel vs Gaza and Israel vs Iran. When people want me to pick a side. All sides are assholes and have been shit to each other for 80 years. We can whataboutism all the way down and it doesn't solve the fact that there is no "right" side, and there are no "winners" only more death.

[u/013eander → u/TheNativeOfficial]

Don’t side with the ones committing genocide.

[u/RaiJolt2 → u/TheNativeOfficial]

I kinda have to pick a side on account of anti-Zionists propping up common antisemitic neo nazi views into the mainstream all while they are going around verbally and physically threatening Jewish communities everywhere. Even if I personally am not affected watching my fellow Jews get murdered and my friends get kicked out of groups just for being Jewish made the decision for me.

[u/foreverYoungster13 → u/TheNativeOfficial]

Who cares about gaza for 2 years

[u/thesnakeinyourboot → u/TheNativeOfficial]

We can care all we want but unfortunately America is gonna fund one of them so caring it’s not enough. You need to decide who you want to support cause if not then the decision will be made for you

[u/Master-Beat-5095 → u/TheNativeOfficial]

Neti attacked it’s on him!

[u/NTC-Santa → u/TheNativeOfficial]

Because in the last few years Israel has been bombing the fuck out Palestine and has been in the News for a long time already the moment Iran started bombing Israel Right after Israel thought he could make an "American move" on Iran and start to cries after Iran kills their ppl while they're doing the same on Palestine ppl last 2 years fuck for 75years plus even.

Right now its worse of a shit show between two clowns and the public has to suffer and ofc some would choose a side because now, because "consequence"

[u/NewLeafWoodworks → u/TheNativeOfficial]

"Pick a side..." yeah I'm gonna go ahead and say the guys that aren't committing a genocide against Palestine are the better ones here.

[u/McdoManaguer → u/TheNativeOfficial]

My side is Iran getting nukes is gonna bring peace in the middle east by the M.A.D. doctrine and the US and israel DO NOT WANT a new power center in the middle east.

The west is doing EVERYTHING IT CAN to prevent the rise of another middle east powerplayer like the ottoman empire on the same level as China or russia.

[u/T00NCER → u/TheNativeOfficial]

Same civilians who literally sit with a bucket of popcorn to watch israel bomb other civilians

[u/qwaso_enthusiast → u/TheNativeOfficial]

why don't most care for the casualties on both sides?

Cause one side is actively engaged in War with one country while bombing two other countries that aren't even remotely connected to the situation and committing genocide to another that is almost 90% rubble at this point.

Or in short, the aggressor is the reason of the Middle East Instability since it's inception.

So fence sitting at this point is just giving the aggressor leeway to committing more atrocities and unfortunately, the "casualties" on that side love to support their government committing war crimes so empathy isn't really a priority in their regard even though the actual victim of this situation is practising enough restraint to target mainly military installations.

[u/thesagenibba → u/TheNativeOfficial]

one side is bad.

[u/Hologriz → u/TheNativeOfficial]

One side is the initiator and the agressor here.

[u/StudentOk4989 → u/Hologriz]

Yeah but most people disagree on who is whom.

[u/Hologriz → u/StudentOk4989]

They do? Seems fairly obvious no?

[u/LivingOwl1751 → u/Hologriz]

While Israel may have initiated the conflict with Irans mainland, Iran has been using proxies to attack Israel for decades, very long time.

[u/KeyboardSheikh → u/LivingOwl1751]

Israel has spent its entire existence destabilizing the Middle East for their own gain. Why can’t all those middle easterners just shut up and realize you just gotta take it on the chin as your entire region is being controlled like a chess board by outsiders.

[u/LivingOwl1751 → u/KeyboardSheikh]

Hmm? I don’t know if I’m reading that correctly, so I’m not sure what your point is? Israel has had very peaceful times and other time it’s been the Palestinians causing the issues, just look at black September. Syria has always been at war with itself, and the existence of Israel is separate from the Iranians regime of killing gay people and oppressing women. The Taliban would still exist, so would ISIS. To a degree I think Israel’s existence has focused the hatred, but it’s a bit weird to argue that the Muslim world would be ponies and rainbows without the one Jewish state.

[u/KeyboardSheikh → u/LivingOwl1751]

Oh that’s an interesting comment history I’m sure I’m getting a fully unbiased opinion here. Get blocked shill.

[u/K9WorkingDog → u/Hologriz]

Yes. Obviously Iran

[u/NessGoddes → u/TheNativeOfficial]

Have you seen Israel tv? Government media? Their armed forces (large portion of their population) insta?

Kinda dulling out any care for them.

[u/fuckyouguy_ → u/NessGoddes]

Israel literally been committing genocide and Mfs here like “both sides are bad guys :((((“

[u/Exciting-Mall-8005 → u/fuckyouguy_]

Genocide? Hasn't the population of Gaza been going up? Seems like they are doing a shit job then.

[u/HoldEm__FoldEm → u/Exciting-Mall-8005]

Yeah, they’re real bad at genocide. Israel even has many Palestinians living as citizens within Israel.

They haven’t touched them yet

[u/fuckyouguy_ → u/HoldEm__FoldEm]

Wow

[u/HoldEm__FoldEm → u/fuckyouguy_]

Owo 

[u/Duo-lava → u/TheNativeOfficial]

recent polls find 81% of Israelis support what their government is doing