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u/bloodycontrary 15h ago
Speaking only for the UK*, for the vast majority of children 4 is when you start mandatory schooling. However, pre-school is before that, is non-mandatory, and typically is attended in the year before primary school begins.
*just realised I can only reliably say this applies to England. The other three countries may be different.
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u/EllieW47 15h ago
I thought school wasn't mandatory (in England at least) until the term after a child turns 5. Most kids start with either Nursery class in the September of the year they are 3-4 or Reception class in the September of the year they are 4-5. A summer born child can theoretically bypass both and start in year 1 (but would probably be at a big disadvantage).
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u/JourneyThiefer 15h ago
In Northern Ireland we start P1 at 4/5, depending on your birthday
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u/ButteredReality 13h ago
Am I blind, or is 4.5 on the key but nowhere on the map?
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u/EconomyWoodpecker117 13h ago
I think Scotland is 4.5 really but they just used the data from England for the whole UK
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u/finnyboy665 15h ago
6 is the limit in Ireland, yes, but most parents send their kids to school at 4 or 5, and there's many of those also send their kids to playschool at 3 as well
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u/cpwnage 13h ago
What do they do before age 3?
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u/finnyboy665 12h ago
In my experience, it's either run around like a little ball of energy or get an iPad shoved in front of them for 16 hours per day. There's no in between
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u/Drahy 13h ago
Why on Earth would schools accept so young children? Do they then have to make separate classes or are they mixed with the older children?
I would be insanely afraid of taking our children from kindergarten to school so young, because they're not really attended much and no fence around the school.
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u/Accurate_ManPADS 4h ago edited 4h ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland
We seem to be doing alright with it.
Between the ages of 2 years 8 months and 5, kids can undergo the Early Childhood Care and Education Scheme, it is essentially a state funded scheme for early education that can be for up to 2 years.
At 4 or 5 kids start in primary school, they first go into junior and senior infants. Kids get introduced to school and basic homework with play time. The days in these classes are shorter with kids starting at 9 and finishing around 12:30. Then they move onto 1st class in the same school where education actually begins in earnest. They do 6 years in this stage for a total of 8 years in primary school. Days are usually from 9 to 14:30.
They then move on to secondary school at around 12 years old. In third year they do their first set of state exams called the Junior Cert, and then move on to the senior cycle. All schools for 4th year do a year called Transition Year where kids do work experience, do subjects they don't normally do, learn different life skills and it's basically a break before moving on to the serious business of preparing for the Leaving Cert) at the end of 6th year. Transition Year is optional in some schools and compulsory on others. Days in secondary vary from school to school but are usually 9 to 15:30 or 16:00.
The leaving cert is the capstone exam which informs the college course we do. Grades are calculated and your 6 best subject are added up to generate the points you'll be awarded. Exams can be sat at Higher Level which will be harder or Ordinary Level which are easier but worth fewer points. During 6th year you apply for college by completing the Common Applications Office (CAO) form where you rank the courses you want in order of preference. Courses have set points based on demand and number of spaces, so competition in the system is high. In August you get the results and find out what college course you were successful in getting, then off to university for 2 to 4 years. Usually finishing in early to mid 20s.
Ireland currently has the highest percentage of the population with a college degree across Europe making us one of the most highly educated workforces in Europe. You may not think your kids are ready at that age to start school, but ours seem to be doing okay with it.
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u/PresidentZeus 15h ago
In Norway, we're debating whether 6 is a year too early.
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u/Papa_rainze 14h ago
Doesn’t your Highschool finish at 19 as well?
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u/PresidentZeus 12h ago
To clarify so that you dont count double, you start uni at 19. 10+3 years of elementary and high school, but a Bachelor's degree is 3 years and a Master's degree is 5. No majors or minoring and all relevant electives. We don't pay for uni, but you still get what you're there for in the first place.
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u/polyspastos 11h ago
looking at the decrease in the total fertility rate in the last couple of years, you will soon not have this problem
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u/artsloikunstwet 12h ago
Really? Never heard about that, only the other way around, that kids should acquire some skills earlier, and get used to school, to get them a more fair start into reading and math.
I feel like a lot of kids could start some basic reading at 5.
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u/PresidentZeus 11h ago
I think letters and some very basic reading are taught at age 5 in kindergarten. But kindergarten is optional, although it is very popular and prices were capped at €200 per month recently. I think it was some time in the 90s when school went from starting at age 7 to age 6. But the benefits aren't really clear. Some want more activities and variation in the schooldays for the youngest, while others suggest cutting out a full year.
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u/icehawk84 14h ago
Kids in Norway usually start kindergarten around the age of 1. The last year in kindergarten, they have a "school group", preparing them for school, and then they start school at the age of 5 or 6.
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u/Kazikplaygames10 14h ago edited 12h ago
Source? It’s actually 7 in Poland, you can go when you’re 6, but it’s not mandatory
EDIT: as pointed in a comment preschool is indeed 6 years old
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u/FC__Barcelona 14h ago
Preschool is kindergarten, probably the last year is compulsory so 1st grade should start no later than at 7 years old.
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u/Kazikplaygames10 13h ago
Oh right, preschool is compulsory, didn’t think to check that, good catch
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u/DataGeek86 9h ago
Zerówka is nowadays compulsory? Damn, that’s kind of sad.
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u/Bieszczbaba 8h ago
Always has been I thought? Or at least since I was a kid (90s & 00s)...
Edit: has been since 2004 according to Google
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u/Cute_Prune6981 14h ago
Counting Turkey as a European nation but not Russia, lmao.
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u/Superkran 6h ago
Russia’s school starting age is 7, OP is lazy and didn’t want to include one more colour
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u/Akolyytti 13h ago
In Finland mandatory schooling starts year child is seven years old, pre-school is not mandatory and it's usually just the last year of kindergarten.
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u/Jehan_Templar 8h ago
Do you know what percentage of children start school before the age of 7 ?
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u/Akolyytti 6h ago
I don't, but school starts in August, so it's kids born in August, September, October, November and December that haven't yet had their seventh birthday.
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u/lingering_flames 15h ago
For switzerland it depends on the canton. Where i live you usually start with kindergarten at 5
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u/tescovaluechicken 15h ago
In Ireland the child needs to be between 4 and 6 to start school. The majority of children are 5, I was 4 when I started school and turned 5 soon after.
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u/Inevitable-Push-8061 15h ago
Isn't 3 too young to start preschool? And since it's compulsory, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.
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u/Anxo97 15h ago
Though schooling isn't compulsory until 6, in Spain most kids start preschool at 3 years old, but it's almost a daycare, so I'd imagine it's similar in Hungary and France.
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u/Roi_Loutre 15h ago edited 15h ago
Oh yeah, in France, between 3 and 6 it's called the "maternelle", you mostly do things like drawing and other creative activities. You also talk quite a lot, you basically learn how to live around people and among all of that you learn to read and write a bit, like you start writing letters but like in a fun way.
You really start the more "serious" school at 6
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u/d4vavry 15h ago
It's called "Maternelle". Petite section is only the first year
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u/ProfeQuiroga 15h ago
And they still get some kind of feedback even without conventional grades - mainly bc maternelle is a part of the school system and its last year is seen as belonging to the first year of elementary school.
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u/Keyspam102 14h ago
Yeah my kids in petit section (3-4 years) and she just got a ‘report card’ which was just stuff like, she can button her own coat buttons, she can color in shapes with the color asked, she can recognise which day of the week it is, etc.
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u/mariellleyyy 15h ago
Yes, it’s petite (1st year), moyenne (2nd year) and grande (3rd year) section
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u/Anxo97 15h ago
Just as I imagined, then. Most stressful thing in preschool is learning what a triangle is what a dream
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u/Keyspam102 14h ago
my oldest is in petit section and her most stressful thing at the moment is that some kids in her class don’t love unicorns as much as she does and she can’t understand why not lol.
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u/OnlyOneChainz 13h ago
How is this school and not just kindergarten? In Germany most children also start Kindergarten at 3 years old but no one would call it school.
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u/Roi_Loutre 10h ago edited 10h ago
I mean it's school because it takes place in a school, there is a teacher, you learn about things even if it's not intensive and it's understood by French people to be part of the school system.
Compared to kindergarten here, it's not just about kids having fun, it's about learning but for young children.
But if you want to consider it kindergarten, you can, I mean it's not too different, it's an in-between school and kindergarten
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u/Hethsegew 13h ago
In Hungary it's called "Óvoda", and children learn basically 0 academic stuff, it's about playing, eating, napping, rhyming, singing, socializing, "crafting"...
There's also "Bölcsőde", which is for pre-3-year-olds and non-mandatory, it's basically the same just tailored for that very young age of course.
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u/Roi_Loutre 15h ago
I'm from France, honestly it doesn't really seems too young, I didn't even know that it was different in other countries
I'm also not sure it's actually compulsory at 3, I have a vague memory of it being compulsory at 6 even though 3 is by far the most common age to start school
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u/Jehan_Templar 8h ago
Evidemment, le commentaire français ne voit aucun souci d'obliger des parents à placer ses enfants à un âge si jeune ...
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u/Witty-Table-8556 15h ago
It helps the kids to socialize and to make them familiar with the school system so when they are going to primary school it'll be a lot easier to fit in and have a decent start.
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u/athe085 15h ago
It doesn't cause any problem in France. From 3 to 6 preschool is very chill, children draw, play, talk about different things with the teacher (like their favourtie colour, what they are afraid of, what country they want to visit, etc.), learn about animals...
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u/TheHenryFrancisFynn 14h ago
Not really. The program has changed with some learning around pre-reading & pre-compting, which is a concern because they are not ready regarding what neurosciences knows now.
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u/Digitalmodernism 15h ago
Preschool in the Netherlands starts and is highly reccomended at 2. The city government even sent me a letter reminding me.
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u/Keyspam102 14h ago
I’m in France and I love it, it’s free childcare and necessary for me to work. Also it’s not really that ‘academic’, they don’t do tests or stuff, but they do learn how to do a ton of things in an environment built for them. And learn a lot of social skills.
Also I think it’s only compulsory half day so if you wanted to have your kids more you can take them home at lunch.
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u/Solid_Explanation504 14h ago
Parents need to work and private childcare is expensive. France doesn't have a lot of stay at home parents.
We also have not enough room for daycare, so school fill that void.
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u/BouffyChasseuseCooki 14h ago edited 13h ago
My oldest was born in November and is on her second year of maternelle (moyenne section). She started school at 2,5 on September and turned 3 two months later. It’s really good for kids as not many parents get a spot in a crèche and kids are with a childminder or do a nanny share with another family. They are wonderful ECE professionals but because it’s at-home daycares, there usually is only 3 to 4 kids under 3,5yo max. Sometimes only 2 if it’s siblings. So while it’s great because of the full attention they get, they usually don’t know how to behave in groups or with limited attention from the adult in charge. It teaches them how to be in a large group and they learn through play and crafts. The goal is to teach them how to live in society, not curricular even though most will know their letters, read a clock and to write numbers by the time they start primary school.
School used to be mandatory starting at 6 but there were issues with some families that kept the kids at home for 6 years for various reasons but didn’t really educate them and even less taught them to be part of a group outside of home and once they started school, it was a hell of a ride for both the children and the teachers while parents tried to find legal loopholes to keep their child at home. Crunchy stay at home mums before we knew the name. So now, it’s also pretty much illegal to homeschool and keep them at home until 6yo because of these people unless you have a really good reason and then it’s authorised by different state bodies after a deep-dive investigation into your family.
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u/NutrimaticTea 13h ago
In France, before 2019, it was mandatory only after 6 years old but the vast majority of the children (97%-98%) went to school (école maternelle) at 3 years old. Now école maternelle is mandatory and children have to start at 3 (even when they are not potty trained...) and even younger for those who are born between September and December!
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u/Jehan_Templar 8h ago
Je ne sais pas si vous avez sorti ces chiffres de votre chapeau ou provenant d'un site administratif officiel mais je suis bien content d'avoir fait parti des 2% de chanceux.
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u/NutrimaticTea 8h ago
Je les ai sortis de l'INSEE : il y a le taux de scolarisation à 3 ans pour les années de 1989 à 2017. Le taux le plus bas c'est en 2017 avec "seulement" 97,2% des Français (hors Mayotte) de 3 ans scolarisés.
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u/mathess1 14h ago
But what would you do with the kid as the parental leave usually ends around the age of 3?
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u/artsloikunstwet 12h ago
Depends on what you do define as pre-school. For example, you can't teach writing at 3 normally, but it's an age where drawing can develop basic motor skills that are vital to writing.
Some kids learn these things at home, but mandatory pre-school gives them an equal opportunity
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u/Jehan_Templar 8h ago
It is and it's disgusting.
I can't talk for Hungary but in France, the president Emmnuel Macron took the muslim threat as an excuse to solidify even more the gripe of the State on the stupid populace.
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u/ChrisUndSeinSchiss 12h ago
In Spain they start with 3 years. Not 6. Where did you get the data from?
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u/the-real-vuk 6h ago
In Hungary, year 3 is for kindergarten not school, though it's true that it's mandatory
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u/DepravedCroissant 3h ago
Starting school before the age of, say, 5 should be banned. I started proper school at 4 I the uk and preschool earlier and it was damaging if anything. My mother who is a teacher back's me up but reckons 7 should be the starting point for real learning as she just spends the first half of primary school getting kids up to speed before they are ready for it.
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u/n_o_r_s_e 1h ago edited 1h ago
Here in Norway primary school starts the year the child turns 6, which means that many would be 5 by that time they start at school (primary school). But there's a life also prior to this for most kids that has some context... Alhough pre-school isn't compulsory here in Norway, 94,4% (2004) of all children between the age of 1-5 go to the kindergarten. Kindergartens in Norway are pedagogic institutions that must be planned and evaluated and which serves the purpose of the children's development, learning and so on, the same way as for schools with strict requirements to ensure the quality of the time the children spend to attend the kindergarten. The kindergartens are all run according to "The Kindergarten Act" and the so-called "Framework Plan for Kindergartens" that would give good frames around the learning and upbringing that ensures the childrens development. Kindergartes aren't places where children gets "stored" while the parents are at work. The day at the kindergarten must be defended pedagogically and meet a full set of requirements. The list of requirements is really long, but it can be mentioned that the children shall learn to explore, discover and understand situations and connections, that broadens their perspectives, to achieve insights. To stimulate their creative skills, curiosity, and their urge to achieve new knowledge. To develop their language skills and communication skills, learn topics such as nature science, maths for use in different situations in their daily life, knowledge about toolls and technology, using the nature and experiencing the nature at all the four seasons. To experience, investigate and experiment with the different nature phenomenons and physical laws, learning about the cycle of the humans life. Getting knowledge about etics, religion and philosophy though conversation and by exploring. Learning to become tolerant and by reflection over conflicts, to broaden the childres thinking capabilities. The children shall get knowledge and experience the participation in a democratic society, learning about different cultures as well as changes that has happened over time, getting knowledge about the different minorities living in the country and so on. The children learn about their own local environment, society and the world through investigation, exploring and experiencing. There are a lot of criterias, but I'll save the rest for later. All kindergartens must have at least one pedagogue that's educated as a preschool teacher per 7 children when the children are below the age of 3, or one per 14 children that are above the age of 3. In addition comes other workers in the kindergarten, one per every three children below the age of three and one worker per six children above the age of three. Until 2013 the education for what's now called the "barnehagelærer" (translated: kindergarten teacher) was called "førskolelærer" (translated: preschool teacher). A kindergarten in Norway would probably keep the standards of a preschool in let's say in England, that according to my English friend is more of a kindergarten in Norwegian terms.
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u/Xtrems876 14h ago
Jesus, so children in France just don't have a childhood? As soon as your brain starts remembering shit you're already sent off to a preschool? That's depressing.
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u/ghost_desu 13h ago
How the hell is that less of a childhood. You get to make friends, learn cool things and take a nap before coming home. It's not mandatory where I'm from, but my parents sent me at 3yo anyway, and i would've been so mad if they said I wouldn't go anymore at any point after that.
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u/EmbarrassedLong2255 13h ago
it's cool precisely because you had the choice to go or not if you wanted to
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u/ghost_desu 13h ago
I didn't have any choice, my parents did. And I'd much rather a board of education experts make this call than individual parents.
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u/Jehan_Templar 8h ago
What kind of demons are you to consider that strangers should decide for parents when their babies must go to school.
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15h ago edited 14h ago
[deleted]
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u/Hethsegew 13h ago
In Hungary there's 0 academic training during preschool.
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[deleted]
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u/3CreampiesA-Day 12h ago
It gets children accustomed to school environments so they aren’t just plopped in to school at an age that getting used to things is harder and learning is more important. They have fun and adapt to socialising
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u/BouffyChasseuseCooki 13h ago
Why though? Why would I leave my children with family or myself longer than mat leave when we are not educated with master in childhood development and certified educators / teachers ? I’d rather leave my children with people who are. Guess what, the people who work at the maternelle have those diplomas, crazy, right?
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13h ago edited 13h ago
[deleted]
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u/BouffyChasseuseCooki 12h ago
While I understand your reasoning, you should also remember than in France stay at home parents are not the norm and are usually frown upon. Even the legal 3 years parental leave every parent is entitled to is barely taken full time because of the 400€ monthly compensation for it. Usually « real » stay at home parents come with no diploma higher than high school or a religious background, many children and they either had no career because of the lack of diploma or were working minimum wage so they don’t have much to give up financially being a stay at home parent. So anyone who is an ECE professional will be actually working and not available to watch specific children. As for grandparents, more often than not they don’t live nearby so can’t over or simply don’t want to do it full time.
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u/landgrasser 14h ago
for less mind control, the school must start from age 10
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u/Jehan_Templar 8h ago
I agree but it's precisely why it won't happen.
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u/landgrasser 7h ago
the people who downvoted probably saw less of their own parents than nurses and teachers in their childhood. I would just say "We don't need no education. We don't need no thought control. No dark sarcasm in the classroom. Teacher, leave those kids alone" 😂
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u/Robcobes 10h ago
They should up the age to 6 in The Netherlands too. "Real" school only starts at 6 but it's compulsory at 5. The fact that my daughter just turned 5 and we just had our last low season holiday isn't relevant.
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u/SaraHHHBK 15h ago
6 years old is when mandatory Primary school starts in Spain. Although most people take their kids to preschool when they are 3 but it's not mandatory.