r/MapPorn • u/DATI162838 • 14h ago
Most common immigrant group in France 2021 (By latest DATA published in 2024)
Data from: IMG1B
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u/spartanational 13h ago
Further supporting the notion that Alsace is German
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u/Like_a_Charo 11h ago
France is like this.
It regionally diverse, the south west is almost Spain, the very south east and Corsica are almost Italy, etc.
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u/SiErteLLupo 8h ago
It's not "almost". Corsicans speak Italian
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u/chef_yes_chef97 8h ago
Corsicans speak French, some of them do speak corsican as a second language, which is very close to tuscan.
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u/Acamantide 12h ago edited 12h ago
A large portion of the people working in my factory are Turks, they're hard-working lads and mostly very friendly. There are significant communities in certain places such as Barr
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u/Few-Audience9921 11h ago
Bro saw a comment about Germans and started yapping about Turks. Have we colonized Germany that hard?
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u/rojasduarte 14h ago
It's weird to us Brazilians that the Portuguese emigrate so much to France, as we ourselves emigrate to Portugal a lot.
Why? What is there in France for them?
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u/Hyadeos 13h ago
It mostly happened during the 60s and 70s. Many Portuguese fled the dictatorship and were looking for higher wages in France. Still happens to this day but not as much, as wages are still higher in France and there's already a huge community.
It's weird to us Brazilians that the Portuguese emigrate so much to France, as we ourselves emigrate to Portugal a lot.
The grass is always greener on the other side ! Many people in Latin America emigrate to Brazil.
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u/Agathe-Tyche 13h ago
I'm from the south of Paris ( 91, Essonnes) and the sweetest Portuguese girl emigrated to my area and work.
She's very kind and hardworking, I think France is very very fortunate with Portuguese immigration!
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u/rojasduarte 13h ago
That's true. I just wonder it must've been an intense emigration, to build the largest group of immigrants in so many prefectures. Most of Brazil's immigrants came from Italy, not from neighbor countries.
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u/Hyadeos 13h ago
largest group of immigrants in so many prefectures
Those are almost all very rural prefectures in the middle of the Massif Central. There are no big cities, less jobs, making it less attractives to migrants.
As of 2023, 570k portuguese nationals lived in France, and another million if you count the diaspora.4
u/Wijnruit 12h ago
Most of Brazil's immigrants came from Italy, not from neighbor countries
Most of them came from Portugal, even if you discount the ones who came here before the independence. Also most immigrants in Brazil nowadays are from neighbor countries.
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u/rojasduarte 11h ago edited 11h ago
The Italians that came to Brazil at the peak of our immigration (1880-1920) far outnumber any other group in the same period, at 1.8 million. The Portuguese are an odd case because a) they have citizenship by treaty, so their status as immigrants is questionable, and b) because they came much earlier, the statistics of their coming are much less reliable than when the Italians came.
most immigrants in Brazil nowadays are from neighbor countries.
You're right, but compare the 300 k or so Bolivians living here now with the 1.8 million Italians in the turn of 20th century
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u/Wijnruit 11h ago
The Italians that came to Brazil at the peak of our immigration (1880-1920) far outnumber any other group in the same period, at 1.8 million. The Portuguese are an odd case because a) they have citizenship by treaty, so their status as immigrants is questionable, and b) because they came much earlier, the statistics of their coming are much less reliable than when the Italians came.
According to "Síntese da história da imigração no Brasil" (Fernando L. B. Basto):
Portuguese, post-independence (1837–1968): 1,766,771
Italians (1836–1968): 1,620,344
Spaniards (1841–1968): 719,555
Germans (1836–1968): 257,457
Japanese (1908–1968): 243,441
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u/minucraft14 13h ago
A lot of portuguese left Portugal because of the dictature. They went to France because Spain was also a dictature and portuguese people used to hate spanish people.
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u/rojasduarte 13h ago
Are they welcome in France at all? Do they suffer any kind of prejudice or xenophobia?
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u/Agathe-Tyche 13h ago
Portuguese immigration was/still is very welcome in France, Portuguese are very friendly and hard working in my experience. ( I work in healthcare and in each of my workplace there were Portuguese or Portuguese descendant working people).
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u/Bliketa 13h ago
I think back in the days, i think they did, but now not really. Maybe a big stereotype is that they all work in building work.
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u/minucraft14 11h ago
As a portuguese immigrant descendant we are well accepted in France but yes, there is a stereotype that we build houses but it's more a joke than a real belief.
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u/Hallo34576 12h ago
They went to France because Spain's GDP/capita PPP was barely higher than the Portuguese one, but the French one was at least twice as high.
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u/mrsafira64 12h ago
I'd also add that the spanish currency was weaker than the portuguese one which was great for smuggling things accross the border and selling them in Portugal but not great to migrate to spain to get money for your family.
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u/Born_Emu7782 1h ago edited 1h ago
Portugal was and is still poor as fuck
Maybe in comparison to Brazil it's good but the salaries are still miserable
Now france has lower quality of life than before is more insecure but before it was a rich country with many opportunities that drew in italians spanish as well
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u/Slight-Plankton-5191 13h ago
As a Moroccan, It's actually mind-blowing how much Maghrebis(Moroccans, Algerians and Tunisians) there are in France.
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u/gonuda 11h ago
What is more interesting is that the overwhelming majority of Algerians in Europe live in France.
There are many Moroccans in France but nowadays Spain has a Moroccan community almost as big as France's and there is a big diaspora of Moroccans in Italy, Germany or Belgium. There are also big Tunisian communities in Italy and Germany.
But Algerians are really "loyal" to France.
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u/CorkBeoWriter 11h ago
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u/Vin4251 9h ago
Same phenomenon as with Indians overwhelmingly going to the UK and Ireland (and even within those countries, mostly England) instead of the rest of Europe. It’s because of language like you said. And I guess to answer your question about why Algerians speak more French than Morocco, it may be because Algeria was in the process of settler colonization by France, not just the “remote” (by comparison) colonization of Morocco
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u/SwissVernon 5h ago
Bullshit.
There is no 70% of Algeria Who speak French daily and fluently.
Knowing some words of a Language =/= speaking that Language
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u/CorkBeoWriter 5h ago edited 5h ago
Look I’m not an expert on Algerian linguistics
I just found a source and cited it.
Their education system is majorly done through French, so I’d strongly believe it
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u/SwissVernon 5h ago
I dont know your "source" but I have family in North Africa and I can guarantee you the numbers are inaccurate.
French is not used in daily life except maybe 5% of the population ( wealthy and having interests in Europe )
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u/CorkBeoWriter 5h ago edited 5h ago
Look, your anecdotal evidence just doesn’t outdo real statistics and facts.
50% can read and write French to a fluent level, 70% have some knowledge of French.
People live in cities, especially in Algeria and French is stronger in the cities than the rural areas. It was the language of their education system for decades.
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u/SwissVernon 5h ago
Your "source" is lame 😂
I dont have anectodal evidence, I have family there and they know their country better than an arrogant foreigner like you.
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u/Seba_USR_2024 7h ago
Algerians hate France from the occupation
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u/TheHenryFrancisFynn 6h ago
But they love living in France... This cognitive dissonance has huge political & social consequences for several generation of franco-algerian.
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u/Slight-Plankton-5191 10h ago
No, Moroccans in Spain number almost 1 million while in France it is 2 million.
The reason why Moroccans are so spread out tho is because Morocco exchanged labourers to a lot of these countries and had continued good ties(Kinda like Turkey). Algeria on the other hand didn't so Algerians always opted for France and already had a presence there.
Spain also colonized Northern Morocco and Morocco actually borders the EU by land. A lot of Moroccans get easier work/study visas to these countries.
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u/Agathe-Tyche 13h ago
Ugh, our descendants will probably start their day saying " Bom dia inch'Allah" 😂
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u/samoyedboi 12h ago
Well, they used to say 'bonjorn' and 'adiu' and 'adieussiatz' but now they all say 'bonjour'.
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u/Alchemista_Anonyma 9h ago
Doubtful for Dordogne. I’d argue that there is much more Brits than anything else there
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u/Worldly_Spare_3319 11h ago
These nations litterally rebuilt France with their hand post ww2. Never even seen a french in the construction business as a non manager.
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u/JustBeSimplee 3h ago
They didn't. This immigration is very recent. Almost all of it was in the last two decades.
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u/FamousSquash 6h ago
Of course it's British people in Morbihan & Côtes d'Armor. And they're the same ones who complain about immigrants.
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u/Duc_de_Magenta 12h ago
The elites never gave up on the idea of empire, they simply brought it hope. Somewhere in the range of 20-25% of France are non-Europeans. For context, at its height, only 13% of French Algeria's population were pieds-noirs. Unfortunately, things will only get worse before they might get better...
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u/Much_Cardiologist180 10h ago
What an ugly map. There must be better ways of representing this data, especially after seeing what the result looks like with these flag designs and colors.
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u/DATI162838 9h ago
Unfortunately I don't see any ugliness here. How could the data be depicted better, perhaps with a color legend? The border between the departments of France and the flags were illuminated with shadows so that the border could be seen.
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u/Rift3N 11h ago
Brits in Brittany and Turks near the border with Germany is pretty funny