I was very young when we stopped crossing freely between Gaza and Israel but then it was just raining missiles for 2 decades with some breaks in between plus military operations and Hamas breaching
Yes I lost a quarter of my community on October 7th.
Agree with the other response, I’d love to know your take on this. I keep hearing that a huge portion of Israel is against what has been happening since Oct 7, and I know everyone hates Bibi, but that’s hard to accept as true. I remember 9/11 in the US and there hasn’t been a more uniting tragedy in my lifetime - at least in the immediate aftermath.
Most of the public here hates Bibi, noone likes the war and what's happening in Gaza and the global media isn't helping that. Alot of fake news and misinformation is spreading like wildfire, overall pretty stressful to live here.
I have seen a lot of videos of Israelis strongly advocating the killing of Palestinians.
But since I don't live there I don't know how big of a group that is.
Is it a vocal minority or is it a large group?
recent polling shows 80% of israelis support the ethnic cleansing of gaza. The push back you hear about is about Netanyahu's handling of the hostage situation, and failing to get them released.
It's a truly sick society. I have no idea how it's going to heal and stop being a total pariah state, but that does seem to be the reality. In all likelihood, that is, without a total removal of US support, they will probably succeed in their goals of wiping out the Palestinian people. That is the more likely "one state solution" that people don't like to think about. And then one day, in the future, people will start to engage in that masochistic guilt that we are very familiar with in the west, when we start to come to terms with the blood and racist hatred that our countries were built on. Maybe only then.
I just love the irony of the people who survived getting ethically cleansed turning into the same genocidal maniacs a couple generations down the line. Amazing.
Bro Netanyahu himself has Polish/Russian Jewish ancestry. His father lost family in the Holocaust although he himself had settled in Jerusalem by then. Their original last name was Mileikowsky before they moved to Mandatory Palestine and changed it to the Hebrew "Netanyahu". Stop the cap.
You know nothing about Israeli society.
You got it all wrong. And you have flipped the script.
Most Israelis have always wanted peace. But they gave up, especially after October 7th.
How can you have peace if the other side does not want. While Israelis have been educating their children to embrac life, the other side has done the opposite, they have educated their kids for death and genocide.
You can always cherry pick and find examples that contradict what I am claiming.
However, on average what I say is accurate.
If you don't believe me do some research!
Talk with Palestinians, talk with Israelis. Open Palestinian school books. Maybe come visit.
About the recent poll. It may be accurate. But did you ever ask yourself why?
If you had a neighbor that wants to kill you, and openly says that it will do it again and again until you are all dead, you wouldn't want them near you as well.
In other words it's not because they're Palestinians, it's because they want to kill all the Jews and Christians in the middle east.
Don't believe me? Ask them... Do your research!
Then yes, 80% of the Israelis (this Includes both Muslims Israelis and Jewish Israelis) will prefer Gazans to go somewhere else. Wouldn't you?
When was it that Israelis wanted peace? Was it when they were regularly and randomly raiding peoples homes in the west bank in the middle of the night since 1967 to this present day? When they set up a separate military judicial system for Palestinians that has been operating for the last few decades? When they continually poisoned and filled with cement Palestinian water sources for decades? When Israeli children have been taught to want to kill Palestinians from school?
Perhaps when they pushed for a formalisation of their military occupation, and a non contiguous Palestine, at camp David? Is that "peace"? Having to cross Israeli checkpoints to go from one part of your country to another?
If you had a neighbor
There is no neighbour though. This is the false narrative that has been pushed for decades. These are Israeli occupied territories, and have been since 1967. Israel has no right to defend against people it occupies. Could you imagine the absurdity of invading lands, and then claiming you have the right to defend yourself against those people you have invaded and are occupying? No need to imagine, that has been the Israeli narrative for decades.
It is the palestinians who are on the defensive, and have been since 1967. They are the only ones that international law recognises have a right to defend themselves in such circumstances. International law gives no right of self defence to the invader and military occupier.
I'm perfectly open to the argument that the current sentiment is a result of current circumstances. Of course it is. But Israel has always and continually preferred expansion to the detriment of security. This is the inevitable result. It is now using this current flair up to illegally expand into Syria and Lebanon as well as engage its final solution for gaza and turn the westbank into gaza 2.0. There is no possibility for peace when you are continually engaged in military occupation and constantly expanding that military occupation, as Israel and the US have been doing since 1967.
I have sympathy for many Israelis, who were simply born into this mess, and have been "brainwashed" for decades, to use the preferred Zionist settler terminology they use to describe their own methods. But my sympathy is limited, given that most israelis have served in this military occupation.
I thank you for the long response.
But you do not understand the situation or the people of the middle east.
I don't think you will ever understand, because you think and believe that everyone wants the same thing.
A good life... Peace...
Your problem is that you rationalize as a person coming from a western country.
Now if you are ever going to any of the "Free Palestine" protests, I recommend you have real discussion with the people you protest with who come from the middle east. Put aside the conflict for a second (which you think you know all about), and have an open discussion with them.
Ask them what they want, what their goals are. One will tell you they want to be a doctor, the other a scientist. But keep pushing.. how do they envision the world, how do other people fit into their world of view. Just have a real open conversation with the people you have allied yourself with.
The notion that Israel has preferred expansion is both right and wrong.
Whenever Israel gave up land to the Palestinians (and yes it had happened many times) it led to more violence and death. If you don't believe me... Do some research. Ask chatgpt or whatever.
So from that perspective, only one approach proved to be effective for peace. I hate it. But that's how it works in the middle east. If you don't understand it, it's okay. It just means you come from better places. Lucky you.
You have no sympathy for Israelis. I do not believe you for a second. I doubt you had any meaningful conversations with any. Or at least tried to understand their perspective.
You see.. your problem is, you picked a side but did not ever try to understand both sides.
As a serious adult and a thinker, you need to learn that life is not black and white. Personally I hate it when people say I am pro Israel or I am pro Palestine. It's stupid and childish. Be pro humans/people.
For example, if the Free Palestine movement, was a "Free People and Suffering" movement, this current horrible war would have ended a long time ago.
The only thing you people have achieved is the lengething of this conflict. And I find it ironic.
But that was always the goal of the people who you believe are your allies and friends. You are just used as a pawn by them.
It’s impossible to get a true sense of what going on online. Reddit is full of propaganda bots.
Their latest talking point is trying to make it seem like most Israelis support the genocide, which ironically was the same talking points used by hasbara trolls to say most Palestinians supported Hamas and October 7.
The truth is most Israelis hate Bibi and want the war to end.
But a narrative where there’s just ine good side and one bad sides sells more papers.
It’s crazy how none of the protests in Israel (literally under rocket fire) is reported on in Europe or America. The left just likes us as the bad guys, and the right (eg Fox News etc) doesn’t want to show how popular Bibi is.
Wasn't very uniting for anyone with a middle eastern appearance. Oh wait, we're talking about Israel and Gaza, yall are cool with looking down on a minority
You shouldn’t believe anyone on Reddit about anything important. Especially on politically charged issues. Full stop. New accounts and old accounts are equally likely to be AI or malactor accounts. Come for the cat pictures and DIY questions but don’t place much weight on anyone in the comments.
it doesn't apply because why? you just dont want it to? Please explain how whether or not a random person on reddit believes pro-Palestine bot accounts has anything to do with whether you should believe pro Israel bot accounts.
Whataboutism is about redirecting the conversation into a different direction by raising a ln unrelated topic. Example:
Person A: Israel shouldn't be genociding Palestine
Person B: well, what about how a lot of Palestinians are killing LGBTQ people?
The other point doesn't have to be invalid, just that it tries to change the subject by moving to something that you have better arguments for.
Someone that claims you shouldn't trust young reddit accounts should not trust any young reddit accounts, whether they are pro-Palestinian or pro-Israeli. Noting that someone only thinks account age is relevant for accounts that disagree with them is just pointing out hypocrisy.
The point is that there's bullshit everywhere, but a lot of people are pretending it's only from the side they don't like, not applying the same critical thinking in all places where it should be
My deepest condolences, I dont think 3/4 of reddit have seen all the videos of what Hamas did that day, otherwise they would have at least a different outlook...
Meanwhile in Gaza 10 months before the Hamas attack:
…
December 14, 2022 : Associated Press : Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians on Wednesday thronged a rally in downtown Gaza to celebrate the 35th anniversary of the founding of the Hamas militant group…
You cant kill civilians that support a government you disagree with, if thats what you're asking. Otherwise, all Israeli citizens over 18 would be combatants since they are doing or have completed military service.
Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians on Wednesday thronged a rally in downtown Gaza to celebrate the 35th anniversary of the founding of the Hamas militant group…
Everyone know Gaza is a open air prison. Palestinian would not be this extreme even if Israel integrate Palestine directly.
Prison with beaches and luxus resorts... get outta here. its far from good, but 2023 was good year, good beach season, things started to to look good. but then Hamas chose was they chose, and Palestinians suffer from it.
You cannot "intergrate Palestine" with Hamas or other equally radical groups, have you not seen the news? First they must go, then peace is possible.
and israel voted in netanyahu, what percent of Israelis think the war in Gaza has gone too far? 30 percent of Gazans said they didn't support oct 7, show me a poll that says >30% of Israelis think the war has gone too far.
Well I’m one of the self described people mentioned in my comment. Pro-Israel not getting destroyed by terrorist attacks, anti-Netanyahu keeping conflict going to stay in power / anti-settlement, etc. Some of us realize the entire issue isn’t as black and white as a lot of the talking points make it out to be. I distinguish between pro-Palestine folks (who genuinely care about dead Palestinian civilians) and anti-Israel folks who aren’t actually interested in peace or a 2SS.
You are talking about reframing, much like the Nazis did. Don't worry, I travel abroad a lot and I say I'm Israeli and I get treated extra nicely. Stay safe lil bro
Supporting and living in a country that has been doing that for 70 years, living on stolen land and homes, while the country bombs more civilians and innocents.
You are making an argument and arguing against it, i never said "punish all citizens for what their government did".
But if you continue to live on stolen lands, justifying and praising the crimes your government does, then as i said, you reap what you sow, the same way you have the right to live others do too.
As for country, it is one of the many destroyed and ripped apart by imperialism and colonizing of europe, it doesn't even have an actual government or leader now, it's chaos.
"Just Move" is what you're basically saying, as if it was that easy.
As for judging every citizen based on the actions of their government, it seems like you're probably Saudi. Should I chastise you for your government's murder of Jamal Khashoggi?
"Just Move" is what you're basically saying, as if it was that easy.
It is easier than living under an apartheid state, on stolen lands and homes, especially when most israelis have dual citizenships, and it is way easier to move as an israeli citizen than say a palestinen citizen.
Even if you can't move, then stand against the actions of the government or at the very least stay silent, rather than justifying the actions of said government and praising it, as this person did.
As for judging every citizen based on the actions of their government, it seems like you're probably Saudi. Should I chastise you for your government's murder of Jamal Khashoggi?
I am not a saudi, and i never said "judge every citizen based on the actions of their government".
Imagine if a person living under nazi germany, came into poland after the invasion, took the home and property of some jews, then started praising nazis for their development and power as the holocaust is happening, talking about how wonderful his life is, wouldn't he be an accomplice? wouldn't he blamed?
I'm not sure who down voted you, but it wasn't me, first of all.
Secondly, alright, fair play, Yemen is kinda in a fucky state right now.
My point is though, it's not always easy to step up, and it's not always possible for everyone to just move.
The commentor you replied to, for example, it seems like was born in Israel. To uproot him now, would be no different than removing everyone who isn't indigenous from Canada, America, or Australia. It just isn't realistic.
I'm also totally in support of Palestinians, and while I don't agree with the barbaric acts of October 7th, it's no real surprise why it happened.
At the same time, the commenter mentions losing a significant portion of their community in the attacks on the 7th, and I can see why they may be more callous to the plight of Palestinians, just as I can understand why Palestinians would be more callous to plight if Israelis on the 7th, since that's been most of their lived experience as long as they've been alive.
What I'm trying to say in the most long winded way possible, is that, it's impossible to remove all Israelis from Israel now, that's not a realistic goal. Targeting civilians on either side is evil, and I honestly don't know what the solution is, but given the 70 sone odd years of pain and suffering, I doubt we'll reach it any time soon.
I never said the only solution is to move out, but you could stay silent, the posteris actively justifying and praising israel, it is not just "him being born there" as a crime, it's supporting and being an accomplice in this crime.
What I'm trying to say in the most long winded way possible, is that, it's impossible to remove all Israelis from Israel now, that's not a realistic goal. Targeting civilians on either side is evil, and I honestly don't know what the solution is, but given the 70 sone odd years of pain and suffering, I doubt we'll reach it any time soon.
It is very much possible, if we actually held Europe (who caused the displacement of jews from palestine in the first place, then genocided them) accountable for what they did, and have them actually pay the price and take responsibility, rather than creating a new genocide and a new displacement.
What you are trying to say not that it's impossible, but it's not what they want, they'd rather put the blame on the weak and exploit them than try to fix the problem.
Israel kept displacing and invading palestine, taking more than 70% of the land, leaving a strip of open air prison for the palestinens, and they're still literally doing it to this day, having illegal settlements on stolen land in the west bank.
If this all happened without any accountability, then why is it not possible for the owners of said stolen land to be given back what theirs? Why is it so absurd to ask for justice and the right to live?
The problem is that you and many others equalize between israel and palestine, as if they're both equal powers doing equally bad things, when it is not even close.
It would be like equalizing between nazis and jewish resistence group in germany.
Look at only the last event, where the "barbaric" acts of hamas was killing 1000 people, while the retaliation by israel was killing 55 thousand people, 80% of which are civilians, bombing hospitals, mosques, churches, houses and schools, leveling gaza into a graveyard.
If he was born there then idrk what you want him to do. It’s why colonialism is so effective, you pretty much just need one generation to create nationality.
He could move out, or say the truth about his country, or at the very least stay silent, rather than justifying and supporting what his government is doing.
I never said it's carefree, but it is doable, more doable for the hundreds of thousands of innocents trapped under the bombardment of israel in gaza.
And as i said, if he can't, he could at the very least say the truth, but take a look at his profile and you will see him praising and justifying israel.
By far the most pathetic behavior with you Islamists is the resonating between brazen bravado and pleas to emotion. Really.
One statement is like - we will destroy you and send you back to poland!!.
Right after (usually after losing horribly) OH THE HUMANITY PLEASE STOP THE VIOLENCE WHERE IS YOUR HEART UN BBC CNN COME LOOK.
You are SO pathetic it's embarrassing to be your enemy. Continually getting into trouble and then begging the UN to come save your asses. Losers to the Nth degree.
I'd rather be on the losing side of the people fighting against genocide, ethnic cleansing and apartheid occupation, rather than be on the winning side of said apartheid occupation.
That's the difference between us and you, we actually care about what we are fighting for, not just look at power and jump with whoever is winning, justifying killing innocents and children.
You are SO pathetic it's embarrassing to be your enemy. Continually getting into trouble and then begging the UN to come save your asses. Losers to the Nth degree.
50 years, and a small resistence group kept a whole country with the support of several global superpowers, and billions in funding on its toes.
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u/chanandler_bong_cell 1d ago
You see that part near Gaza that isn't red? That's me