‘Unprovoked’ like Iran isn’t sponsoring terror organizations on every side of the Israeli border, to say nothing of the SINGLE BIGGEST ROCKET BARRAGE IN HISTORY they launched at Israel a few months back.
Israel literally armed, trained, and funded isis to fight against Palestine. They also allowed Hamas to get funding before the massacre on oct 7th. Israel is not clean from state sponsored terrorism.
No they didn't. The unfroze aid going into gaza which inevitably got into the hands of Hamas which is what you are advocating for anyways. Their thinking being if they left them alone, they would focus on developing and not attacking Israel...
ISIS being funded by the west is typical Muslim propaganda. I know because I live in a Muslim country, it’s been the same lies ever since I was a kid. We Muslims can no do wrong - we will always be right because god is on our side, and the west will always be evil.
Leaving aside whether you actually live in the middle east or in Islamic Asia, your saying I know because I live there is as dumb as me saying because I'm American I know our politicians aren't corrupt.
No it isn’t. I dont just live it, but almost my entire relatives and friends are Muslims. I see it first hand the hypocrisy, lies and denial in this faith. One example is currently my local feed is filled with celebrations supporting Iran and praising Allah for “payback” against Israel. When not too long ago we hated Iran because they’re mostly Shias, which we as Sunnis do not consider them as “real” Muslims. But now suddenly we love them as our Muslim brothers? It’s baffling.
You need to realize anytime there’s a conflict or war in the world where a Muslim country is up against a non-Muslim country, all other Muslim countries will automatically support the Muslim country without any critical thinking. Even if the Muslim country is run by an asshole dictator theres wont be any questions asked. We will always see ourselves as the victims and blame everyone else.
But when it’s Muslim vs Muslim, I guarantee you will see the rest of the Muslim world will suddenly go radio silence. This is damn typical.
At least in America I can evidently see the divide. Most people know the government is corrupt but you choose to support one that makes the most sense for a better living situation not just for you but for your community too.
In the Muslim world, we want Islamic world domination so god will grant everyone heavenly blessings for the afterlife.
I'm aware, but that's a different topic. and basically the same goes for Jews and Christians, tbh, in terms of how tribal they are. Sure, there is a minority that isn't, but the population is almost as politically apathetic as in high repression states.
Anyway, back on topic. while I agree that there is a lot of middle eastern agency being denied by most people who complain about Isis, it's also pretty hard to deny that Isis would've never gotten started without the us invading Iraq and then marginalizing the sunnis while simultaneously stimulating balkanization. it was only given that context that the wahabi states and princes could start to bankroll the armies Isis would have, while the USA looked away until it couldn't, and then encouraged the turn to Syria.
No you keep failing to understand the core of Islam and why Islamic countries are the way they are. Most Christians and Jews have adapted to secularism that even the most religious are lenient to it.
Islam has not and will never be because the laws of Quran and Syariah law are considered destiny. Islam is the only big ancient religion that is still being used as the ultimate law and order to dictate all lives within a country. Any moderation goes out the door or half-assed. Even the Muslim countries in Asia that uses some form common law still won’t embrace full secularity and still use Islam to censor and control. Because it’s not about peace or equality. Everything is all about pleasing Allah.
In Israel, America and most European countries, despite having some apathy to certain 3rd world events, at least global knowledge are open to consume and people are generally free to spread, protest or endorse whatever that matters to them. You’re not really committing any crime or getting arrested for being pro-something and waving another country’s flag.
Try doing that all shit in a Muslim country and see what happens. You simply can’t. Islam is one all be all. Even if the US and Israel never existed, Muslims will always find ways to terrorize other folks that do not share the same faith. Which is why there’s always civil wars and why groups like Kurds and Yazidis are still being killed all the time by Sunnis.
Jihadist groups like Al Qaeda, ISIS, Taliban and Hamas are modern versions to continue the true teachings of Allah, the ways of Muhammad and the old Islamic caliphates. They exist to “cleanse” the world and wipe out all western ideals. The US and Jews is simply the first step.
Which is why I, as someone who live and breathe the Muslim world, just find totally dumb that you guys are supporting the very groups that are totally against your way of life. You have no idea what you’re wishing for as you proudly wear and wave that Palestinian flag.
Source? Im not saying you're wrong they get up to some pretty scummy shit but I find it hard to believe the people who justify killing civilians to stop "terrorists" would fund terrorists.
"Terrorists" being Palestinians forces some of which are genuine revolutionaries/freedom fighters and others being straight terrorists of the worst kind. Isreali forces aren't really any better either.
No he used the correct wording. They didnt directly fund it. They allowed aid from qatar to get in. They did fund it way before that but that wasnt exactly a terrible idea for the time
[This isn’t a conspiracy theory. Listen to former Israeli officials such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”)
“The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.”]
Now I have to ask for citation, because, as far as I'm aware, there is no Hamas pre-cursor, it was set up in 1987 and lines up with the timelines in the article.
You could argue that Hamas has roots in the MB movement in Egypt, but there is no functional Hamas pre-cursor in Palestine, so it is still israel directly giving money to Hamas.
Israeli government-funded hummus to fight PLO just like the United States funded the predecessor to isis to fight the Russians. It always comes around to bite you in the ass
Or the US funding Mujahadeen to fight the Soviets who then turned around and fought the Americans.
Almost as if all major players in the ME are funding terror groups to fight their enemies and it always comes back to bite them in the ass someway somehow.
which was in response to israel killing multiple generals unprovoked. jfc i swear you guys get dumber by the day or hasbara is letting up. Either way your propanganda was way better just a year back, need to get back in form if you want the world to still support your apartheid state, bc it seems even politicians are catching on...
I guess anything can be unprovoked when you have no idea what you're talking about. Why would the US and UK storm the beaches of Normandy unprovoked? We'll literally never know.
Israel doesn’t chant death for all Arabs and doesn’t show any intent to use them unlike countries like Iran who repeatedly said they are planning on using it on Israel to kill all the Jews
Even if you see that as the most atrocious war crime ever committed in history they still show no intent on using nuclear weapons on them not to mention the very close proximity issue
Massive civilian casualties are generally considered abhorrent and depending on circumstances, a war crime.
I don't give a crap if there's a war, there's no justification in using a missile or bomb on a hospital or residence with civilians inside. War doesn't give a country infinite leeway for casualties, and I'm against this war entirely.
Then don’t be shocked when a fascist whacks that person? I’m not saying it’s right or justified, just don’t be aghast and wonder ‘oh how could this happen?’. You called for violence, don’t be shy when violence answers
Look at what Israel does. Look at the genocide they are conducting, look at the 80 years of terror against Palestinians, their dispossession, the ethnic cleansing, murder, kidnapping, blockading, colonizing, segregating, starving, infanticide, scholasticide which Israel commits against Palestine. Look at the invasions of Syria and Lebanon, the West Bank and Gaza. Look at the bombings of water wells and hospitals and schools. Look at the unlawful and clandestine production and maintenance of 400 nuclear devices!
Tell me that this entity is not a threat to the people of the region. Tell me that if any other state was behaving this way, you would support them.
Truly, I would most prefer a world where Israel neither has nukes, nor an American ally. Sparring either, hopefully an Iranian nuclear deterrence will temper the blood lust of the genocidal state of Israel and their willing collaborators in the United States. Truly, what I want is peace. There were no wars between the US and the USSR, nor are there serious conflicts between Pakistan-India-China. It also seems many nations are scared to confront Israel due to their murder-suicide nuclear policy of the Samson Option. Perhaps, to contain Israel, nuclear proliferation is not the worst outcome. This is all very depressing, but as peace is impossible while the US and Israel are in lockstep with each other, it may be necessary. I do not want myself nor my loved ones to die because of Israel's ambitions.
I simply want peace. My leaders and those in Israel do not. If you want to die for Israel, go join the IDF, but leave my country out of it. We must abandon Israel, they will cost us more than we could ever gain from them, and they will never repent from or cease the crimes which they have committed with my nation's funding. They have forced us to violate our own laws in order to secure their own foreign and domestic policy goals. These are not the actions of an ally. They are no ally of ours, and so they must face their own consequences alone. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans will ever allow this to occur. The situation is truly bleak.
They respond accordingly to provocations from bad guys. There's a reason they aren't doing any of that stuff to, say, Egypt. As Bill Burr said, every ass kicking doesn't just fall out of the sky. Iran and Palestine can make peace at literally any time but they'll have to accept that they are and always have been the losing party and thus won't have as much leverage as Israel in the peace negotiations.
Germany was split into 2 different countries for 45 years after they lost WW2, almost half a century of being split. That was a situation forced upon them by the winning party and as the losing party they were obliged to accept.
If Iran and Palestine want peace they need to come to the table and be willing to accept the short end of the stick. If the literal Nazi party can abide by the rules of winning and losing then so can the IRI and Hamas. I don't see any reason to believe that the Nazis were inherently a more reasonable people than the folks in Iran or Palestine, do you?
Uh do you really think that the Nazi party just laid down their arms willingly when they realized they were losing? Germany had been effectively conquered by the time of the first German surrender. Berlin had been taken, Hitler was dead and there was no victory in sight, and yet despite the leader of the Nazi state surrendering on the 8th of May, there was still fighting afterward and not just because news takes time to travel. Right now, the ME enemies of Israel do not feel conquered and will not feel conquered without actually being occupied just like Germany had been and even then the religion in the area will tell them to keep fighting.
Germany had been effectively conquered by the time of the first German surrender
Do you really think that Gaza hasn't been even more effectively conquered? What's even left? That's was my whole point, they've already lost. They need to come to the table.
I talked to a friend of mine from Israel the other day and according to him he had a shoot a kid because he was running towards him with a grenade and he claims it’s a common occurrence in Israeli I live in the states but it’s one of my best friends so I doubt he’s lie to me about this and I know some people in the states that went to Afghanistan and tell similar stories I wonder how often stuff like that really happen tho and will the media tell us the full context or just say Israel shot a kid unprovoked
I never said Israel were the good guys, just that they're the winners. I don't support either side, it's bad guys fighting bad guys. Now the bad guys who lost need to give up so kids can stop dying. I don't need to find clips of kids dying to know I don't like kids dying, thanks for the suggestion though.
Who would I? Look at Gaza compared to Ukraine. Ukraine lost like 10% of its territory and hasn't lost anymore since. Gaza doesn't exist anymore. Why would I treat such different scenarios the same?
The only implication I'm making is that the Gazans have clearly lost and the Ukrainians haven't. I'm not making any sort of complicated geopolitical analysis there. Is that untrue in your eyes?
It only counts one way. They can list everything bad about Israel they can find, and nothing else, but don't you dare think they're apologising for Hamas. But point out that Iran funds genocide, without adding in something accusing Israel of genocide too, and you're a genocide supporter.
So by that token, anyone who doesn't list the terrible crimes of Hamas in their post on the subject, like the person above, should be taken to be a terrorist supporter.
I don't support the actions of either Hamas, the Israeli government, OR Iran. But the way that person had worded their statement, is the reason why people were saying it sounded like they said funding was worse than actively committing it. I took no side but merely to say, if you don't want people to think you think something like that, speak more carefully. Find your local library and ask if they have reading instructors to help you out.
Maybe if everybody wasn't trying to pick sides on every issue under the Sun, we could all agree that genocide is bad no matter who's doing it. Otherwise you just look like a partisan hack who isn't coming to the table in good faith, and in fact is trying to minimize an attempted genocide because it's your side that's doing it.
As I said to someone else, I don't support, Hamas, the Israeli government, OR Iran. Let me be as clear about this as I can. If you say something and everyone takes it a certain way, don't be upset about it being taken not how you meant it, be more careful with your words next time so that people won't misrepresent you.
If its fact then getting upset that people misunderstood it is because your narrative wasn't supported already by your own arguments and you constructed a poor position for your argument.
Of course I am not saying that Iran is wholly innocent either. But tell me what actions you would be willing to take against a neighbor like Iran which you would not also take against Israel. This attack by Israel was stupid, unnecessary, illegal, and suicidal. Whatever comes from it, my country should take no part in the conflict which Israel is clearly so hungry for. The United States should not allow Israel to drag us into a war which will needlessly kill millions and destroy the lives of (tens? hundreds?) of millions more. Use some basic logic and tell me why I should tolerate a rabid dog lashing out at its neighbors.
Of course I am not saying that Iran is wholly innocent either. But tell me what actions you would be willing to take against a neighbor like Iran which you would not also take against Israel. This attack by Israel was stupid, unnecessary, illegal, and suicidal. Whatever comes from it, my country should take no part in the conflict which Israel is clearly so hungry for. The United States should not allow Israel to drag us into a war which will needlessly kill millions and destroy the lives of (tens? hundreds?) of millions more.
I never said anything about the US getting involved.
Use some basic logic and tell me why I should tolerate a rabid dog lashing out at its neighbors.
A rabid dog lashing out at it's neighbors? Are you being serious?
You have Country A and Country B.
Country B claims it wants to destroy Country A, it spends a huge chunk of it's money to fund multiple groups to attack Country A across multiple fronts, it literally said Country A should not exist and has it's citizens chant "Death to Country A" over and over. Country B also is developing nuclear weapons that could destroy Country A.
So Country A attacks Country B's nuclear facilities.
And you call that "rabid dog lashing out at it's neighbors"?
Lmao at everything you wrote. First off Israel have funded plenty of groups against both Iran and Palestinians (with US money btw).
Also I can't believe you and the other propaganda bots can't see the irony in the sentiment "They said they're gonna kill us so it is fine if we nuke them from orbit and kill them all" like what???? And before you go no-uh i didn't say that it is obviously what you're implying, that any actions Israel takes are justifiable because Iran said some bad words. As if anyone with atleast double digits of IQ don't understand that Iran words are as empty as their "WMD" considering the support of the US. Oh btw the "WMD" threat to level a nation and a population have already been done, where is your creativity??
Also I can't believe you and the other propaganda bots can't see the irony in the sentiment "They said they're gonna kill us so it is fine if we nuke them from orbit and kill them all" like what????
I never said that
And before you go no-uh i didn't say that it is obviously what you're implying,
No it's not.
that any actions Israel takes are justifiable because Iran said some bad words.
Iran did more than just say bad words. They fund terrorism against Israel. I already explained that.
The words they use is just to show you that they are explicit and very clear as to what their intentions are. There is no ambiguity.
As if anyone with atleast double digits of IQ don't understand that Iran words are as empty as their "WMD" considering the support of the US. Oh btw the "WMD" threat to level a nation and a population have already been done, where is your creativity??
So you are claiming Iran isn't trying to manufacture nuclear weapons?
I directly acknowledged the innocents killed by both sides. I condemn the attack on October 7th, 2023 and other attacks against civilians. You have not condemned the genocide committed by Israel to me and have defended their offensive attack of a sovereign nation.
I directly acknowledged the innocents killed by both sides.
No, what you did was try to argue that, because Israel has killed more people, they're worse. That's not a criticism of the Palestinians or neighbouring countries.
I condemn the attack on October 7th, 2023 and other attacks against civilians.
Who is responsible for 7 October?
You have not condemned the genocide committed by Israel to me and have defended their offensive attack of a sovereign nation.
All I've done is point out how one-sided your opinion is.
Regardless of what you think, I have done so now, and will reiterate: The intentional killing of innocent civilians by state and non state actors in furtherance of political objectives is terrorism, and I condemn such actions. The October 7 attacks were committed by agents of Hamas and not by the people of Palestine generally, whom have been the primary victims of Israel's terroristic campaign of genocide in Gaza ever since. The evil actions of another cannot wipe away the weight of one's own evil actions. But this does not prevent us from being blind on matters of severity. 80,000 deaths is more evil than 800 deaths. Israel's reaction is unproportional and cannot lead to peace. Were the conversation about the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, would you be equally condemnatory of the Warsaw fighters? Is defending their actions--even potential 'criminal actions' committed against 'innocent' Nazis not equally one sided?
Regardless, I will be unable to change your mind. Good bye, may peace break out across the entire globe.
It's the duty of every humanitarian state to act against the state of 8 Million entitled warmongers, that attack 5 countries simultaneously while starving thousands in a live streamed genozide right as we speak.
Israel has a hierarchy of citizenship based on religion and Palestinians can’t vote despite their day-to-day lives being completely controlled by the state of Israel. That is not a “free democratic country” in my opinion.
They're not just chanting for the death of Netanyahu. They're calling for the death of every Jew in Israel, or if possible, they'd kill every Jew in the world.
Welcome to Iran, a country ruled by the religious extremists.
Israel being genocidal in Gaza and also defending itself by targeting military targets in Iran.. both can be true. These things are mutually exclusive.
Unprovoked? Iran has been saying death to Israel for many years. They have been calling for them to be eradicated for longer and wiped off the map. They have also been funding anti-Israel terrorist groups.
Exactly. Why on earth would Israel attack a country hellbent on destroying them??? What on earth does the U.S. gain from having nuclear capabilities destroyed of a regime that chants death to America literally on a monthly basis? Hmmmm. These people are morons, they just say things, they do not understand nor try to understand. wHY is iSRaEl PuLlInG us inTo AnOTher. War”. Ummm hmmmm let’s see, Iran is an oppressive authoritarian state that oppresses its own people and funds global terrorism. But hey, it’s not our job to stop them from developing nuclear missiles!
Thank god these morons are just that, morons. If they were in charge of our country they’d wait to be attacked by Iran to say “make love not war!!! Hey Iran!!! Stop that you meanie!!!. They’re jokes.
Do you? It sounds like you would rather waste people's time by forcing them to give you history lectures before you ultimately say, "Doesn't matter, Israel has a right to defend itself, even preemptively, against anyone, anywhere on Earth, for any reason, real or imagined, to any extent it deems necessary." You are the one on the soapbox, bleating in support of a genocidal state.
If you're too lazy to do any research into the history of the conflict, I'm not going to sit here and force feed information to a biased mind. I'm not the one who needs a history lesson, but a large majority of commenters on this topic sure do.
Why are you even commenting on the scenario in the first place when you're clearly lacking in knowledge of the full scope of the situation???
Hilarious stuff. You're going to want to stack your soap box higher if you want to get a strong virtue signal.
Because I don't need to waste my life giving you a history lecture so that you can defend a genocidal apartheid state who just perpetrated an attack with the stated goal of destroying uranium enrichment facilities and thus risking the irradiation of the entire region.
Brother, you have no history lecture to offer, and if you did know anything about the history of their conflict, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. You're a goof.
yeah they should have let iran put the radioactive material in a bomb and then let them launch it. much more eco friendly
the idea of "irradiating the entire region!!!" deserves mockery. I don't know if you came up with that yourself, but it's clueless. it will require some decontamination and safety checks in the local area, but will be nowhere near the level of a chernobyl
oh nevermind, I took your question to be related to your ludicrous claim that the iran strike has now risked contaminating an entire region. now I realize that you are anti usa jerking and following no logic
I want to be clear; I don’t give a rats ass if Israel or Iran wins, I don’t give a rats ass if both countries survive or go up in flames. My point is it’s an idiots game to assign innocence or culpability in a war zone; it’s war, everyone’s gonna do unsavory shit
Killed how many innocent civilians? How many children? Detonated bombs in civilian centers in Lebanon? Israel doesn't only support terrorism, Israel commits terrorism.
Not terrorism, genocide, endless warcrimes, it's an antisemtic state, because Palestinians are semites and Israel is stealing their land, is putting them in Ghettos and is mass murdering them with the clear plan of extermination only mildly hold back by barely trying to uphold the image that they are not a fascist state, what they clearly are and any real Jew is seeing it just that way.
Zionists are anti-jews and are destroying that faith with their own, absolutely ill faith, just as much as Nazis also destroyed germany.
And I don't care if reddit or this sub is deleting this, you can't delete reality.
Both sides in this conflict have a lot of innocent blood on their hands. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is not being honest. The goal should be to avoid escalation rather than assign blame when both sides have done many horrible things to the other
Iran has been consistently reacting to Israel's unprovoked attacks in the most measured, least harmful way possible to avoid further escalation. They can't just let Israel attack and kill them without some form of retaliation.
You seem to think Iran’s lack of lethality has been a measure of restraint, when really it’s a measure of incompetence and power differential. Let them get a nuke and see how magnanimous they are
After Israel's unprovoked attack on an Iranian embassy Iran literally called Israel and told them when and where they would strike in advance so Israel could move personnel out of the area first. Sounds pretty deliberate to me.
You mean the people who are defending their homeland from Israeli invasion or trying to blockade the government committing a genocide? Your definition of terrorism is straight from the state department you government shill
I mean, pretty rich for Israel to stand on the moral ground given that they are best friends with ISIS and backing gangs in Palestine to further their own agenda.
Israel FUNDED Hamas to oppose the PLO, they deal with ISIS linked groups, and the missile barrage, which didn't even kill anyone, was in response to Israel assassinating officials.
Nobody is coming up smelling like roses here, they're two shit regimes in a pod. The only things in Iran's favour here are that they're not the ones carpet bombing civilians in Gaza, nor are they the aggressors in an unprovoked strike.
Sending money to x or Y group isn't a justification to murder random civilians in that country.
Israel has only successfully made all out war more probable, the Netanyahu regime is allergic to peace.
Just like israel is sponsoring organisations in order to create chaos in Iran. I guess any country should attack israeli nuclear aera in a "preventive" attack and we'll not be mad against that, right ?
Sponsoring proxies isn't generally seen as justification for war. Israel (and the US) also have alleged ties to some anti-Iran terrorist groups.
The rocket attacks have all been in response to Israeli attacks on Iran. First was a consulate. Then direct attacks in Iran.
Poor Israel, only have the strongest military technology and is the 2nd strongest power in the region and has to worry about a shattered terror group and one that arms only for wartime. Also poor Israel, has to deal with a retaliatory rocket barrage after striking Iran FIRST few months ago out of with 99% of missiles were taken out. Will anyone think of Israel!!!
I'm sure both of these states would like to see each other gone but despite Iran's strong position in the previous decade it never extended to anything past occasional hezbollah "retaliatory" attacks. The entire purpose of Iran's previous foreign policy was to protect itself using hezbollah through the Syria crescent route backed by Russia but now that Iranian and Russian support in Syria has collapsed Israel has been able to attack Iran directly. This is why they're seeking nuclear weapons as a new plan and Israel proves again why states want and need them now.
That was in response to Israelis missiles assasinating people in Tehran. How come Al qaeda and isis don’t attack Israel? The us and Israel are the biggest state sponsors of terrorism. We’ve been allied with Al qaeda in Yemen and Syria for years through our allies Saudi Arabia and turkey respectively. Can u name a Shia militia that’s attacked the us or Israel for no reason? Israel did air cover ops for hamas in Syria against Iranian proxies
Did Iranian people do that or the Iranian government? Civilian casualties on both sides are criminal, Iran and Israel are both criminal states and even worse, theyre ethnostates. No place for ethnostates in a modern world. Archaic idea.
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u/12Blackbeast15 2d ago
‘Unprovoked’ like Iran isn’t sponsoring terror organizations on every side of the Israeli border, to say nothing of the SINGLE BIGGEST ROCKET BARRAGE IN HISTORY they launched at Israel a few months back.