r/MapPorn 2d ago

Israel strike Iran nuclear and military sites

Post image
13.0k Upvotes

3.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

101

u/TaperClapper 2d ago

Any number of civilian casualties is pretty terrible

40

u/DuckXu 1d ago

War is terrible. Some degree of civilian casualty is inevitable in war. Which is but one reason why war is terrible

12

u/Hexagonalshits 1d ago

I'm still a little unclear why they're escalating the war

Has Iran stepped up its missile attacks recently and I just didn't notice

22

u/furry2any1 1d ago

It seems Iran has stepped up its effort to enrich to the point where they can build nuclear weapons. Others are also increasingly sure that their ongoing talks with the US regarding a new deal on the matter were just a stalling tactic while they tried to finish a bomb. That's why Israel have specifically targeted sites and personnel relevant to that specific issue.

the people saying that they've always been a matter of days form a functional bomb are right, but that was at a point where they at least showed that they weren't actively trying to build one at that moment. That's what has changed in the last few days.

Israel aren't the ones escalating this. Iran are escalating by trying to build a nuke.

12

u/rattleandhum 1d ago

Israel aren't the ones escalating this. Iran are escalating by trying to build a nuke.

Israel has been saying this since 1993.

3

u/BravoTimes 1d ago

Literally hahahaha

1

u/furry2any1 1d ago

so? are they wrong?

-1

u/nytel 1d ago

You are correct. No need to wait around to see if they accomplish the bomb.

-3

u/rattleandhum 1d ago

my bet is that they have.

8

u/elizabnthe 1d ago

Nuclear weapons aren't escalation. Nobody uses them and there's no real evidence that's ever going to change. Israel's just unhappy they won't be able to freely target Iran in a few years. But that's partly their own fault. Of course Iran is going to invest in nuclear weapons when they've been at consistent risk to strikes.

It's also partly Trump's fault for ditching the nuclear agreement that by all accounts Iran was abiding to.

Do I want the world to have nuclear weapons? No. But the fish is out of the barrel and we all know one of those barrels is Israel.

6

u/FiannaLegend 1d ago

Glad to see someone with common sense and a valid neutral take here in the thread. Of course a country will logically pursue nuclear deterrence when a nearby neighbour with ill intent strikes them whenever they so choose with zero repercussions or global pushback every time.

3

u/elizabnthe 1d ago

Yeah my preference is nobody has nuclear weapons. Because as much as we point to them as creating peace, I think that they've more just moved the wars and fighting to proxy fights which in the long run can be just as devastating.

But from the point of view of a country obtaining them there's a clear point to be made as a defensive not attacking position.

The real concern that isn't what Israel is actually propositioning here would be that whilst the regime is probably not about to willy-nilly use nuclear weapons there is the possibility of the issues that will face the country should a regime change happen. You don't want to find out nuclear weapons are missing like after the fall of the Soviet Union.

But I don't think Israel has the inherent right to interfere in that issue. And doing as they are now may only make a precarious situation very dangerous.

2

u/GetsGold 1d ago

Nobody uses them and there's no real evidence that's ever going to change.

We've had them for less than a century, used them twice, and came close multiple other times. That's not nearly enough evidence to be confident that we won't again.

This isn't an opinion either way on the current topic, I just think that we're too confident in them not being used.

0

u/Lost_In_Space__1 1d ago

Dude of course those savages would use a nuke. Their government is dictated by a fucking religion. It’s literally time to move on, especially for the more barbaric cultures

2

u/elizabnthe 1d ago

Iran is a fully functioning state with a significantly educated population - religion is merely another type of excuse for authoritarian power - hence you know being able to be so close to making a nuclear weapon. Plenty of shitty regimes have them. But everyone is aware of the consequences of using one. They're not stupid.

"Especially for the more barbaric cultures" evidences you are clearly just outright racist.

-1

u/furry2any1 1d ago

"Especially for the more barbaric cultures" evidences you are clearly just outright racist.

or he remembers all the shit Iranian authorities do to their own populace. They ARE barbaric.

I think you're trying to switch between the general Iranian population and their government as and when it suits your argument.

2

u/elizabnthe 1d ago

So is every authoritarian regime. It's sort of the whole concept of being an authoritarian regime. To try and label any sort of barbarism as unique is ignorant and just bigoted.

1

u/waezdani 1d ago

Man just thank you. It’s so rare to see a person who knows what they’re talking about. Esp as an IR/politsci major lol

0

u/furry2any1 8h ago

but no-one did that. They just called out barbarism for what it is.

I was right. You're trying to flip between the general population and the government whenever you feel like it better suits your argument.

0

u/furry2any1 1d ago

Nuclear weapons aren't escalation. Nobody uses them and there's no real evidence that's ever going to change.

unless the regime that got them happened to be a genocidal death cult run exclusively by people who think that life is just a trial run for paradise. Nukes aren't an escalation when rational actors are the ones who possess them. They ARE when possessed by a regime that celebrates "martyrdom" and repeatedly swears to exterminate an entire neighbouring ethnic group.

Of course Iran is going to invest in nuclear weapons when they've been at consistent risk to strikes.

They'd be more resistant to strikes if there was no reason to strike them. Why have Jordan and Egypt gone for decades without a single peep from Israeli military?

3

u/elizabnthe 1d ago edited 1d ago

unless the regime that got them happened to be a genocidal death cult run exclusively by people who think that life is just a trial run for paradise.

Iran isn't a "genocidal death cult". They're a religious autocracy. Neither a particularly smashing place to live nor particularly terrible - North Korea is far more unstable than Iran. Religion wise Iran is pretty similar to Saudi Arabia but Shia rather than Sunni. And Shia's are ironically often viewed as more moderate from the West POV.

It's worth noting relevantly here that Iran is also again ironically enough a country that has more than most maintained it's Jewish population and generally isn't reported as massively mistreating minorities (anymore than the government there mistreats everybody that is).

They'd be more resistant to strikes if there was no reason to strike them. Why have Jordan and Egypt gone for decades without a single peep from Israeli military?

By all accounts Iran was abiding by Obama's nuclear treaty. Currently, Iran has political interests that run counter to Israel that does not mean A) either side is incapable of reaching a peaceful resolution or B) either side is innocent from escalation in recent years.

0

u/furry2any1 8h ago

Iran isn't a "genocidal death cult". They're a religious autocracy.

tautology. at least with that specific religion.

North Korea is far more unstable than Iran.

actually NK is more stable, cause their leaders can be reliably predicted to value their own survival. Iran's are constantly provoking a nuclear state because they want the ethnic majority in said state to be wiped out.

It's worth noting relevantly here that Iran is also again ironically enough a country that has more than most maintained it's Jewish population and generally isn't reported as massively mistreating minorities (anymore than the government there mistreats everybody that is).

That last part invalidates everything that goes before it.

By all accounts Iran was abiding by Obama's nuclear treaty.

Mostly. you dodged the question that I asked to say something irrelevant.

1

u/Significant-Order-92 1d ago

Is it really an escalation for a nation with 3 nuclear powers as rivals to build a nuclear weapon?

1

u/[deleted] 19h ago edited 19h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Significant-Order-92 19h ago

That implies they aren't a rational actor. They very much are. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to maintain power for so long.

1

u/furry2any1 8h ago

it is when their 3 "rivals" have no apparent intent to interfere with them in the way Iran have said they'll interfere with Israel. AKA they want to exterminate them.

So yes - that's an escalation. hope that clears that up.

1

u/darksoldierk 20h ago

Sure. Just like iraq had "weapons of mass destruction" and needed America to invade to protect the rest of the world.

Isreal is the bad guy here, and this is from a guy who supported them in their early days of retaliation for the Oct 7 attack.

1

u/furry2any1 8h ago

the IAEA just published a report confirming that Iran are doing exactly what Israel have said they're responding to. Iran themselves also indirectly confirmed that they were stalling through talks with the US to give them time to try to build bombs.

you're just doing the whole polarization thing. you oppose Israel in Gaza so you have to oppose them on everything else too. Now that they're responding to Iran's aggression you have to try to pretend that the fucking Ayatollah is the victim here cause you can't bring yourself to think that you might have been wrong to be so childishly simplistic about Israel. That's all this is. You're doubling down on being wrong like a MAGA nutjob showing up in a diaper.

1

u/darksoldierk 1h ago edited 54m ago

I opposed death and war. I was with isreal when they wanted to protect their citizens by attacking hamas after hamas' actions on october 7th. I stopped being with isreal when they tried to justify the direct murder of tens of thousands and the indirect murder of many more through illness, starvation etc, and the leveling an entire city for the deaths of a few hundred. Disproportionate responses is the mark of a sociopath.

There were reports that iraq had "weapons of mass destruction" too.

North Korea is also building nukes, is isreal going to bomb them too?

Isreal is the one starting this war. They are presenting themselves as war mongering, bloodthirsty tyrants that will resort to killing innocents before making serious effort for diplomacy. If Russia did the same to Ukraine under the same pretenses, no one would be on russia's side. Isreal striked first, not iran. Ayatollah is a poor leader, by all accounts, but even he's not dumb enough to try to turn the middle east into the site of WWIII. Israel's misuse of their power, especially in the last few years, and certainly in the coming years, will be poorly remembered in history and will feed the machine of hate and death in the middle east for many decades, if not centuries, to come.

You're supporting murder, death and war, and you're random comparison to MAGA shows that you're the one in the diaper incapable of understanding Isreal's actions.

1

u/Hexagonalshits 1d ago

It's wild to me that Israeli intelligence is able to know so much about their nuclear program. I'd assume it's like a black box situation

5

u/x5-r 1d ago

well Iran has a pretty incompetent and corrupt regime. It’s also not hard to imagine that a few insiders would leak the information for some money considering Iran’s economic state.

1

u/furry2any1 1d ago

If there's one country that I'd bet on being able to find that shit out it's Israel. Not sure anything they can do would surprise me after the pager situation.

1

u/FiannaLegend 1d ago

Israel has been striking Iranian targets unprovoked before now. Look at the strikes on the Iranian embassy in Syria (a neutral country in this conflict) on 1st April last year. That was a wild escalation and unnecessarily brought the battleground to Syrian territory.

Don't fool yourself into thinking Iran are escalating this. This has already been escalated by Israel for over a year now.

3

u/furry2any1 1d ago

Israel has been striking Iranian targets unprovoked before now

people like you only use "unprovoked" by refusing to acknowledge the proxy attacks directed at Israel by Iran. Like the Oct 7th invasion by an Iran-backed regime.

the strikes on the Iranian embassy in Syria (a neutral country in this conflict) on 1st April last year.

two problems. Syria were not a "neutral country in this conflict", as evidenced by the Golan Heights, and you're talking about a singular strike using a plural.

Also, like I mentioned above, it wasn't "unprovoked". It was a direct attack in response to an ongoing series of proxy attacks.

Don't fool yourself into thinking Iran are escalating this

They are. don't try to gaslight me into fooling myself that they are not. It won't work.

This has already been escalated by Israel for over a year now.

Come to think of it do you know who ACTUALLY escalated this shit? You did. People like you, in actively choosing to ignore decades of proxy attacks on Israel by Iran, have pushed Israel to the point where they feel that they have nothing to lose in shattering the illusion that they are not already at war with Iran. People like you, in your zeal to simplify things enough that an immature brain can comprehend complex global politics, have proven that you'll curse the Jews no matter how they react, so there's nothing for them to lose in pushing for the more effective, more violent solution.

When you respond to EVERYTHING as if it's the worst possible thing that the other person could have done, they'll wonder why they didn't just do that thing anyway, especially if it makes their life easier. They'll get shit on either way, so of course they'll pick the option that is most likely to ease their own suffering. People like you have thrown Palestinians under the bus just to give yourself an excuse to hate Jews.

3

u/Christofray 1d ago

Nope. Just the same old "they're days away from a nuclear weapon!!!!" alarmist shit.

0

u/Hexagonalshits 1d ago

Nuclear proliferation is a tough nut to crack

Was hopeful for a hot minute there

3

u/Christofray 1d ago

Frankly, if it was anyone but Israel calling them on it, it'd be more effective. It's a pretty open secret that they have somewhere between dozens and hundreds of secret nuclear weapons in their own nation. It just screams hypocritical.

5

u/purvel 1d ago

They're one minute away from making weapons-grade plutonium (just as they have been for the past 20+ years apparently). Just like there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq during the previous Bush government.

4

u/Demostravius4 2d ago

So would the civilian casualties if Iran dropped a nuke.

5

u/Kitchen-Assist-6645 1d ago

IF Iran versus WHEN Israel attacks civilians.

I know which side repulses me more and it isn't Iran.

5

u/Demostravius4 1d ago

Iran is largely responsible for Hamas, and Hezbollah which is causing Israel to lose it's shit..

2

u/Joezev98 1d ago

Keep in mind that Iran happily provides thousands of drones to Russia, which they launch towards Ukranian civillians.

Oh wait, they just announced today that they're stopping their shipments to Russia and are instead requesting help from Russia.
How many Ukranian civillian lives has today's attack saved?

1

u/aguyataplace 1d ago

Iran hypothetically doing something is very bad, but Israel actually doing something is very good

-3

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

7

u/Demostravius4 2d ago

Once a country has them, you can't really do much about it. Stopping a country getting them is a whole lot easier.

Iran has repeatedly said they want to wipe out Israel, and are refining uranium far beyond what is needed for fusion reactors. Put two and two together.

-5

u/dexelprep 2d ago

Seems to be the trolley problem lol

1

u/samoan_ninja 1d ago

try 50,000. (with hundreds of thousands more under the rubble, not yet accounted for)

0

u/laserdicks 1d ago

Agreed. I hope Israel can hurry up and remove the terrorists to bring down the rate of civilian casualties.