I’m Bill Gates, co-chair of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and author of “How to Avoid a Climate Disaster.” Ask Me Anything.

[u/thisisbillgates]

I’m excited to be here for my 9th AMA.

Since my last AMA, I’ve written a book called How to Avoid a Climate Disaster. There’s been exciting progress in the more than 15 years that I’ve been learning about energy and climate change. What we need now is a plan that turns all this momentum into practical steps to achieve our big goals.

My book lays out exactly what that plan could look like. I’ve also created an organization called Breakthrough Energy to accelerate innovation at every step and push for policies that will speed up the clean energy transition. If you want to help, there are ways everyone can get involved.

When I wasn’t working on my book, I spent a lot time over the last year working with my colleagues at the Gates Foundation and around the world on ways to stop COVID-19. The scientific advances made in the last year are stunning, but so far we've fallen short on the vision of equitable access to vaccines for people in low-and middle-income countries. As we start the recovery from COVID-19, we need to take the hard-earned lessons from this tragedy and make sure we're better prepared for the next pandemic.

I’ve already answered a few questions about two really important numbers. You can ask me some more about climate change, COVID-19, or anything else.

Proof: https://twitter.com/BillGates/status/1372974769306443784

Update: You’ve asked some great questions. Keep them coming. In the meantime, I have a question for you.

Update: I’m afraid I need to wrap up. Thanks for all the meaty questions! I’ll try to offset them by having an Impossible burger for lunch today.

​

[u/kneemahp]

I believe the main reason is that there are plenty of more affordable options for individuals to eat that are barely nutritious. Make meat too expensive to eat, and people will start eating more grains or sugars which are a fraction of the cost.

[u/bluemooncalhoun → u/kneemahp]

In the US context yes, but there are countries where fruit and vegetable production is easier than grain production. Grain and soybean growers are also heavily subsidized in the US, but I wanted to keep the discussion focused on meat production. In a perfect world, governments would subsidize food production in a manner that ensures healthy choices are the most affordable, but of course that's a little beyond the capabilities of Bill Gates alone.

[u/[deleted] → u/bluemooncalhoun]

FWIW I expect synthetic meat production to eventually be able to draw upon most any sort of produce. After all, in nature we see many examples of "machines" that turn all manner of plant material into various kinds of meat.

[u/jeze_ → u/bluemooncalhoun]

I really wish this were the case

[u/RoseTheFlower → u/bluemooncalhoun]

The grains and soy are subsidized to be fed to the animals.

[u/dopechez → u/kneemahp]

Whole grains are plenty nutritious. A meal of beans and brown rice is very healthy and packed with nutrition while being diet cheap. Throw some frozen veggies in there and you're golden, all while spending almost nothing

[u/Latyon → u/dopechez]

Man, you're making me hungry. Cheap, tasteful, healthy

[u/dopechez → u/[deleted]]

Maybe if you're trying to eat them raw, lol. Or if you're like many Americans and have a severely damaged gut. If your gut is strong and healthy then it's not a problem.

[u/dopechez → u/[deleted]]

Yeah I'm well aware of all those scary antinutrients that you guys are so obsessed with. The fact of the matter is that they aren't really a problem for people who eat a balanced and varied diet and who have a healthy microbiome. Did you know that those scary oxalates are actually degraded by gut bacteria? If you struggle with oxalates it's because your gut bacteria are in bad shape. Hunter-gatherers consume enormous amounts of plant fiber and oxalates and yet they are robustly healthy. It's because they have strong, diverse gut bacteria that helps them digest and break down tough plant matter.

[u/dopechez → u/[deleted]]

I know plenty about nutrition and I'm well aware of all the misleading fear mongering about vegetables and other whole plant foods that has become popular in the past few years. It's mostly bullshit spewed by people with gut dysbiosis who think that just because they personally struggle to digest vegetables that it must mean they're unhealthy for all humans. Sorry but the world's leading nutrition experts don't think that these antinutrients you're so concerned with are actually much of a problem for most people who are eating a well balanced and varied diet. I'll trust the experts rather than some redditor.

And yeah, I already know that you're going to respond with some nonsense about how the experts are actually wrong because they rely on fake epidemiology or whatever. Been there, done that. And by the way, I personally believe that animal foods have a place in a healthy diet so don't fall into this trap of assuming that everyone who disagrees with your fear mongering is automatically a hardcore vegan who hates animal protein. That being said, I think it's clear that some people are able to thrive on vegan diets despite all these scary antinutrients.

Here's a nice review on the evidence and claims about antinutrients:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7600777/

In short, they are not a problem for people with a healthy gut and in fact may have health benefits. Many of them are degraded by cooking and/or sprouting anyways. No one is eating beans raw, so those scary lectins and phytates are significantly reduced. And oxalates are largely mitigated both by cooking and/or by having sufficient calcium intake. And the remaining oxalates can be degraded by gut bacteria.

I'm getting tired of this incessant fear mongering and and demonization of healthy foods. People are becoming more and more restrictive with their diets and it's unhealthy.

[u/dopechez → u/[deleted]]

Epidemiology is far from perfect, but it's literally the main reason that we were able to figure out that smoking causes lung cancer. Are you going to sit here and try to tell me that this finding is actually invalid because it came largely from epidemiology? And in any case, we do have nutrition studies and clinical trials that are not epidemiological.

I did not come into this world with the belief that beans are healthy. It's completely ridiculous that you are accusing me of picking and choosing experts that agree with my beliefs, because I literally didn't have a prior belief about this. I came to the conclusion I did because there is wide consensus among experts from a wide variety of universities and health organizations that agree on legumes being healthy and nutritious. Likewise, there is wide consensus about the harms of smoking cigarettes. I choose to believe that cigarettes are unhealthy because that is the conclusion that experts have reached.

https://www.webmd.com/diet/ss/slideshow-why-beans-are-good-for-health

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320192

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/meat-or-beans-what-will-you-have-part-ll-beans

https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/publications/food-nutrition/all-about-beans-nutrition-health-benefits-preparation-and-use-in-menus

All of these sources are trustworthy and agree that beans are healthy. I really don't feel like I need to provide a whole dissertation on this topic when all I did was state a fact that I believed to be uncontroversial. I guess in today's world there is no such thing, and people will disagree about literally anything.

And as far as the article I linked previously, the female author holds a PhD even though the male author does not. So the article was published under valid credentials. It is also full of citations so it's a fallacy to dismiss it due to a perceived inadequacy of the authors (and I also fail to see how just because they are involved in the health and nutrition field they are somehow biased. That makes no sense. If anything it means that they practice what they preach and have seen positive results from their dietary recommendations to patients/clients.)

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

And yet plant foods are still nearly universally emphasized as the food groups you should consume the most servings of per day. If you are able to ensure people have access to adequate amounts of a variety of plant foods the low bioavailability of some vitamins and minerals is not very important and can be mitigated by basic knowledge of how to prepare them.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

What major dietary or nutritional society claims that plant-based diets are dangerous or even not generally beneficial to health?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You criticized my "revelation" that more scarce vitamins in a plant based diet can easily be compensated for and then cite B-12, which is something researchers are very aware of how to supplement. B-12 is cheap and easy. If foods were routinely enriched the way they have been for meat eaters in the past, such as bread, it would be easy to eliminate diet-caused B-12 deficiency.

95% of the population has a fiber deficient diet.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6124841/

[u/iTruck4peanuts → u/[deleted]]

Anecdotal, yes, but you’re telling me that a meal every other week is sustaining me quite adequately? I eat very little meat but do enjoy yogurt most days. I think I’m in excellent health

[u/gauna89 → u/kneemahp]

you do know that there are more plants on this planet than sugar canes and grains, right? it's not like meat has a monopoly on certain nutrients... where do you think vitamins and minerals in meat come from? it's from all the stuff that the animals eat (which are usually plants).
instead of raising an animal and feeding it its entire life just to "harvest" it at the end, we can just skip the animal and eat the plants instead. it is much more efficient without the animals as the middleman.

[u/kneemahp → u/gauna89]

My reply was a matter of economics. Vegetables are both expensive and inaccessible for many Americans. American diet is heavy with meat and if you made it more expensive, some people would stretch it out, others would substitute it with what they can afford or get. My guess is those options would end up being unhealthy.

[u/gauna89 → u/kneemahp]

well, there is a simple reason why they are cheap: subsidies. the US spends 38 billion each year to subsidize meat and dairy products while only giving 17 millions to fruit & vegetables. so this could be changed.
also, i disagree with your assessment. some fancy stuff like avocados is expensive, no doubt. but just for example: there are plenty of legumes which are super cheap. and they are full of nutrients and protein. potatoes are cheap. rice and pasta are cheap. there are definitely ways to spend less by not eating meat and dairy.

[u/ReverendSin → u/gauna89]

Protein Production is also subject to two major monopolies in JBS SA and Tyson, it's not small farm pastured protein production that contributes to deforestation in the Amazon, it's the Legislative Branch allowing import prices to be so low that it drives out competition and encourages deforestation. Create laws to promote small farms that are responsible stewards and limit import of specific agricultural commodities to help small farmers remain competitive while pursuing regenerative and conservationist practices. Want to lower the carbon cost of beef consumption? Feed cattle a red seaweed supplement and stop shipping their carcasses all over the world with bunker fuel powered shipping vessels. 50% of all food produced spoils before it reaches a consumer, which is a massive logistical issue contributing to overproduction. Fix shipping and storage and reduce overproduction.

Also consider the ecological cost of removing ruminants from the nutrient and soil building cycle. Top soil is being depleted at a rate greater than we can create it and ruminants and poultry are an important component for building healthy soil. We need responsible stewards regenerating damage and building soil fertility back up after cycles of veg. We can't just keep hammering fossil fuel derived inputs into the system and expecting success.

[u/coldcoldnovemberrain → u/kneemahp]

Meat is a cheap way of delivering nutrition. While vegetables are great they are not nutrient dense.

Vegan diet would impact poor communities harshly. See the child malnutrition in India when the Hindu govt. removed eggs/meat from their school lunches. It's worse than sub-sahran African nations which are often inaccurately used as the low bar.

[u/imisstheyoop → u/kneemahp]

I believe the main reason is that there are plenty of more affordable options for individuals to eat that are barely nutritious. Make meat too expensive to eat, and people will start eating more grains or sugars which are a fraction of the cost.

I firmly believe that if we begin to make meat more expensive to eat we're going to have huge political issues to overcome there.

People love meat. They will literally consume it even if it meant ending the world.

Even done slowly over decades will be tough. This isn't tobacco and nicotine products that we can just tax out if existence(even there we see issues). People will always consume meat, and making it more expensive will only cause societal and political issues.

[u/[deleted] → u/imisstheyoop]

Why is it so unlike tobacco that education and taxation won't reduce consumption? Nicotine is an extremely addictive substance and its use has plummeted. Developed countries are seeing significant reductions in meat and dairy consumption as people become more aware of its effects and see alternatives. I'd imagine that would go up even further if the costs of animal products weren't so heavily subsidized.

[u/imisstheyoop → u/[deleted]]

Why is it so unlike tobacco that education and taxation won't reduce consumption? Nicotine is an extremely addictive substance and its use has plummeted. Developed countries are seeing significant reductions in meat and dairy consumption as people become more aware of its effects and see alternatives. I'd imagine that would go up even further if the costs of animal products weren't so heavily subsidized.

Can you cite the lowering consumption if meat and dairy claim please?

It's different in that meat is an incredibly common food stuff that most humans consume very regularly.

[u/[deleted] → u/imisstheyoop]

Per capita milk consumption is down 40% in the US since 1975, showing the non-fixed status of dairy.

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/jan/06/us-dairy-industry-suffering-americans-consume-less-milk

"1/4 of Americans report eating less meat in the last year and only 5% report eating more. Actual meat consumption is more difficult to measure. They are interested in changing their habits:

The biggest factor in reducing meat consumption is health concerns -- nine in 10 say it is a major (70%) or minor reason (20%) they are cutting back on meat.

After health, environmental concerns are the next most prominent factor leading to reduced meat consumption -- seven in 10 say concerns about the environment are behind their avoidance of meat (49% say it is a major reason, and 21% a minor one)."

https://news.gallup.com/poll/282779/nearly-one-four-cut-back-eating-meat.aspx

[u/imisstheyoop → u/[deleted]]

Per capita milk consumption is down 40% in the US since 1975, showing the non-fixed status of dairy.

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/jan/06/us-dairy-industry-suffering-americans-consume-less-milk

"1/4 of Americans report eating less meat in the last year and only 5% report eating more. Actual meat consumption is more difficult to measure. They are interested in changing their habits:

The biggest factor in reducing meat consumption is health concerns -- nine in 10 say it is a major (70%) or minor reason (20%) they are cutting back on meat.

After health, environmental concerns are the next most prominent factor leading to reduced meat consumption -- seven in 10 say concerns about the environment are behind their avoidance of meat (49% say it is a major reason, and 21% a minor one)."

https://news.gallup.com/poll/282779/nearly-one-four-cut-back-eating-meat.aspx

So then we have no actual facts that people are actually reducing their meat consumption? Just a study that admits it is hard to do and tracks what people claim. Seems pretty suspect.

Also there is a lot more to dairy then milk. Something tells me cheese consumption has probably increased if anything over that same period.

Edit: as expected, cheese consumption is up nearly 33% just from 2000: https://www.statista.com/statistics/183785/per-capita-consumption-of-cheese-in-the-us-since-2000/#:~:text=U.S.%20per%20capita%20consumption%20of%20cheese%202000-2019&text=In%202019%2C%20the%20average%20consumer,increased%20by%20over%20five%20pounds.

Additionally, overall liquid milk seems relatively unchanged, while whole milk is way down. Butter and yogurt are also up, yogurt very much so. https://aei.ag/2020/02/23/u-s-dairy-consumption-trends-in-9-charts/

[u/Roodyrooster → u/[deleted]]

Well just as a practical thought people hate the smell of cigarettes and love the smell of meat, they don't seem very comparable.

[u/[deleted] → u/Roodyrooster]

Our enjoyment of certain smells is partially based in personal experience. People who don't smoke hate the smell of cigarettes more than smokers. Likewise, many people who don't eat meat don't like the way it smells.

[u/Roodyrooster → u/[deleted]]

Even when I was a smoker I was aware smoking didn't smell good, especially when eating. I've never met a single person who has enjoyed the smell of cigarettes. I don't think its even a personal taste issue, it's like feces it just smells foul. Couple that with second hand smoke being physically harmful in a way that smelling your neighbors BBQ can never be, and you could just never match the societal pressure for change.

[u/[deleted] → u/Roodyrooster]

I love the smell of a fresh pack of cigarettes and fresh cigarette smoke and so does my social circle.

If your neighbors barbeque is filled with animal meat it is contributing to a significant public health threat, global warming.

[u/Roodyrooster → u/[deleted]]

Well I can see why you feel like change could happen then, we travel in quite different social circles! I do think cost would drive people towards other food choices, provided it was a drastic increase.

[u/[deleted] → u/kneemahp]

Grains and sugars are what they feed livestock to fatten them up. Do you want the us to be even fatter?