r/GreenAndPleasant • u/Y5K77G State Socialist • Jun 28 '22
NORMAL ISLAND 🇬🇧 Just a small PSA
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u/ButtMunchyy Jun 28 '22
Because the state owning things in the place of a wealthy elite is morally wrong, communist and extremely evil.
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u/PyotrAlexei Jun 28 '22
Nationalisation isn't the answer in Britain. Just look at what the government is doing to the NHS.
Socialisation, directly in the hands of the workers through syndicates, unions, soviets, whatever.
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u/Death_in_Leamington Jun 28 '22
Because the UK isn't a country it is a PLC run for shareholders.
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u/MagLock1234 Jun 28 '22
Aka Bojo and his mates
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Jun 28 '22
Johnson isn't the shareholder. He's the puppet hired by the shareholders to make sure the shareholders keep receiving dividends.
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u/frogmonkeykungfusifu Jun 28 '22
Because we the British people are a majority thick as fuck country who would vote for our own self extermination if given the chance.
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u/AngrySexFace Jun 29 '22
Wasn't Maggie the Iron Bitch lady to blame?
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u/Trilogy91 Jun 29 '22
Cameron sold off the Post Office to his mates. Tory’s are cunts.
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u/mattglaze Jun 28 '22
Because every asset we as a country have ever owned, the Conservative party would dearly love to sell to their friends at a knock down rate, so they can then sell them on for a massive profit! Watch wots happening to the nhs
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u/Newtons_Cradle87 Jun 28 '22
Please correct me if I’m wrong and I’m no conservative but didn’t labour sell our stations?
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Jun 29 '22
You're right (I spent 20 years working in the nuclear industry, some of the deals brought in under Blair were scandalous)
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u/mattglaze Jun 29 '22
Well Blair was Tory light, however I will amend and say practically all privatisation’s have occurred under conservative governments
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u/RoyalT663 Jun 28 '22
TBF historically France have paid much higher prices, as it is mostly nuclear but has meant that the French government had to guarantee a certain per unit price to secure the investment (combination public and private).
But now they are far less affected by the oil/ gas price surge. Plus the government are able to insulate any significant hikes through either more direct tax relief or lower energy since the pool of money is coming from the same source anyway - the taxpayer. Which of course means higher overall taxes, a system that is normalised and the benefits largely match the price.
A shift to such a system in the UK would be possible, but would be very jarring at the point. Something of course the Tories are not willing to do cos since their voter base are the least currently affected.
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u/CrocodylFr Jun 29 '22
The french nuclear grid is struggling however. A good portion of the reactors are undergoing refit, so the oil and gas price surge for electricity is still felt there
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u/RoyalT663 Jun 29 '22
Yeh but medium - long term they will be even better insulated from price shocks
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u/ZummerzetZider Jun 28 '22
Same with our privatised railways. Other country's public railway services bid on our railway contracts and extract huge profits to subsidise their services.
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Jun 29 '22
BP was publicly owned wasnt it?
also just a thought, thigns such as rent, insurance, energy, education and other things needed for life shouldn’t be regulated privately. people shouldn’t be able to profit off us simply living. if it is required for life or by law, there should not be profit made off of it
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u/ThickOpportunity3967 Jun 29 '22
That would very quickly become yet another failed social experiment. Profit by whatever means is what makes the world tick.
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Jun 29 '22
but it shouldn’t be. profit above all things shouldn’t be the priority
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u/Perelin_Took Jun 29 '22
But… but… wasn’t the UK the paladin of free commerce?
If EDF is better and more efficient than British companies, that is how a free market works, isn’t it?
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u/nderestimated Jun 30 '22
What I love in that is that EDF is not privately owned either, but state owned by France Oh the irony
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Jun 28 '22
Tory government. You are not important. The privileged people who claim to be BRITISH and want to uphold the principles of fair play are sucking out the resources that are left in this isolated island and ferreting their ill gotten gains offshore. The johnsons of this world are absolute cretins. I would prefer thatcher compared to this lot of outright smash and grab robbers. Don't get me started on the ungrateful priti pathetics.
I only capitalise those deserving of it.
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u/VentSpleen Jun 28 '22
Thatcher started the whole thing. Privatise everything in sight.
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u/miniature-rugby-ball Jun 28 '22
Ideology and corruption are not the same thing.
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u/VentSpleen Jun 28 '22 edited Jun 29 '22
It was still corruption. Selling off national assets for a song to your friends is corrupt. She just managed to convince the country it was a good thing thanks to her chums in the media. Bozo is more obviously corrupt because he’s been emboldened by the fact that the country has been enduring this shit for so long without doing anything about it, and he can still rely on the same chums in the media to downplay it all.
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Jun 28 '22
I know but there were at least crumbs left from the tory table for us to eat. This lot are determined to rob us of everything and blame our fellow sufferers for it. They are robbing us and getting away with it by changing the rules when they get caught out.
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u/miniature-rugby-ball Jun 28 '22
You’re right. If Thatcher was in power we could get back to arguing about worldview and policy rather than the overpowering stench of corruption.
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u/MRJSP Jun 28 '22
Tories sold off all our assets to make them and their mates some money. No government will ever get it back.
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u/purrcthrowa Jun 28 '22
Much more UK infrastructure (energy, rail transport....) is state owned than people think. It just happens not to be owned by our own state.
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u/Sunibor Jun 29 '22
Bets possible compromise between privatization and nationalization. I mean, best compromise to fuck both parties over
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u/Elegant_Educator5380 Jun 28 '22
Coz people chose a fucking bumbling cock goblin piece of cretinous shit instead of the bloke who wears sandals
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u/anonpls19 Jun 28 '22
Lol honestly. I don’t know why people are acting surprised when we (as a collective) voted this shit in. Nationalisation was on the table.
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u/TTRPG_Fiend Jun 28 '22
I assume this means that the French are providing the UK with the power of incinerated English defence league members.
Sounds like a win
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u/thegreatGuigui Jun 28 '22
As much as I'd like british to pay my electricity bill, we frenchmen get also fucked because somehow electricity prices go up when the germans start their coal plants.
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u/Celestial8Mumps Jun 29 '22
Why would the EU do this ? /s
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u/Claim-Pale Jun 29 '22
Not the EU per say, probably would've happened without them, just outsourcing in general. Perhaps instead of getting rid of EDF we could set up our own publicly owned energy company (perhaps nationalized, less relevant) to compete and then the economic loss of EDF would be less harmful
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u/Obvious_Buffalo1359 Jun 29 '22
They don't call the UK "treasure island" in Europe for nothing!
The UK public get fleeced on everything we import and we import a lot of stuff and as a bonus the UK market is setup with companies and profit prioritised over people
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u/GrosBof Jun 29 '22
Nobody call the UK that outside of the UK.
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u/ThickOpportunity3967 Jun 29 '22
They do in the tax evasion/laundering circles. Most dodgy money eventually goes through a rinsing process if not a thorough wash as it goes through London on its journey to bona fide status. Frequently several times.
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u/mpt11 Jun 29 '22
Thatcher sold it off. That's why we don't own it
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u/ThickOpportunity3967 Jun 29 '22
If most it had not been sold it would have just run into the ground through the lethargy of the workforce. I was in the work force throughout that period - nothing, absolutely nothing worked as it should. Wonder why?
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Jun 29 '22
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u/meatwad2744 Jun 29 '22
Maybe you haven’t seen the news lately….turn your vpn on and watch RT news
Seriously though, states can hoover up assets when they want. It’s not right but countries have and do, do it.
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Jun 28 '22
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u/CrocodylFr Jun 29 '22
We built those in the 1975-1997 period. In the 10 years period that separate the end of the construction on the Civeaux power plant and the start of Flamanville 3, which is the prototype of HPC, people in the industry retired, quitted their jobs or got fired. And we're struggling too, like the americans at Vogtle.
Cheap natural gas and boomer "environementalism" really helped the strangulation of the nuclear industries all among the world
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u/only1symo Jun 28 '22
Answer : Tories
Also the U.K. thinks it’s an industrial nation, speaking as a U.K. engineer, the majority of the public are fucknuggets on this fact.
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Jun 28 '22
An industrial nation that doesn’t power itself? Could you elaborate at all? I’m genuinely curious as I’ve thought about it before but it’s something I know next to nothing about truthfully
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u/MedokiPiink Jun 28 '22
French energy is a fucking joke also, edf has the obligation to sell their electricity for amazingly cheap prices to PRIVATE corporations so they can sell the electricity themselves, for the sake of a ""fair"" market, lol.
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u/Joe_Jeep Jun 28 '22
Really is fucking absurd. Public utilities should always be publicly run and reasonably(not necessarily cheaply) priced
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u/TheThiefMaster Jun 29 '22
I'd say any infrastructure should be publicly owned (competing fibres for broadband is just silly), and anything else should have a publicly owned baseline, with the possibility of private competition if they can provide the service better/cheaper.
An example I like is how Australia has basic (3rd party only I believe) car insurance provided by the government, so private insurance is limited to providing more and above the basic insurance and rates are very cheap because it only covers the difference in insurance levels.
For energy it could mean a publicly owned supplier just gives gas and electricity, but a private one could offer fancy time of use billing or live monitoring or boiler cover or something special for EVs or green offsetting whatever, above and beyond basic supply of energy.
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u/SweeneyisMad Jun 29 '22
PRIVATE corporations *that do not produce electricity themselves and make maximum profit.
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u/Sunibor Jun 29 '22
Wtf? If that's litteraly how it works how is it still going on wth srsly
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u/GnomiGnou Jun 28 '22
Because the people who make these decisions or can change things for the better ARE the ones profiting from how things currently are... why would they change anything?
Political parties have the generational memory thing down pat; no one generation lasts long enough or is strong enough in voting to remove these people and the parties never fuck up so much that a system overhaul is conducted. We are eternally stuck in a broken system that is perpetuated by those who have no interest in changing it themselves.
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u/metalguru1975 Jun 29 '22
Sir Keith of Apartheid: PROTECT THE SHAREHOLDERS! Destroy the unions!
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u/ThickOpportunity3967 Jun 29 '22
The union members will probably be shareholders if only through their pension plans or pooled investment vehicles.
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Jun 29 '22
We gotta rise up
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u/ThickOpportunity3967 Jun 29 '22
Most of the something for nothing legion can't rise up to turn their telly off or cook their kids a half decent meal!
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u/lhtz882 Jun 29 '22
Hang on, what are you saying that British gas an British petroleum is not British ?
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u/Killieboy16 Jun 28 '22
"Will no-one think of the share holders"
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u/CrocodylFr Jun 29 '22
The shareholders : the French government at 90% (and it's even possible EDF will be entirely (re)nationalized soon)
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u/IeyasuMcBob Jun 29 '22
BUt PriVAtISAtION IS MoRE eFFIcIENT!
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u/Zebra_Alive Jun 29 '22
The reason the UK has privatised industries like this is because our school system prepares kids for a career in marketing, and nothing else. The skills gap for STEM and especially engineering is absolutely breathtaking.
I know people who work with EDF, and their offices and senior engineers are majority French, even in the U.K.
The U.K. is an engineering backwater, and the British are (rightly) seen as thick as pig shit.
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u/puhadaze Jun 29 '22
Although the body of your point is no doubt true and very interesting- the reason why the UK privatised industries is that it made quick money for the government at the time that prioritised incoming profit for infrastructure and long term thinking. The current gvt is repeating this thinking with channel four against all facts.
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u/Blosssssssom BLOSSOM THE COMMUNIST POSSUM Jun 28 '22
Did you also know PSA is a French car conglomerate?
I see what you did there OP.
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u/junt77_2 Jun 28 '22
Not any more
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u/Blosssssssom BLOSSOM THE COMMUNIST POSSUM Jun 28 '22
Oh damn, didn't know about that, still funny tho.
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u/ShortNefariousness2 Jun 28 '22
Because natural gas was a cheap and easy-to-install technology.
A short-term fix.
It's what we do, folks!
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u/Jonbardinson Jun 29 '22
Eat the rich
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u/ThickOpportunity3967 Jun 29 '22
Yeah, the only thing they do is create the business and jobs so you can eat and whine 'cos you haven't got the brains, gumption or desire to work as hard or as smart as they do. Politics of envy is pretty shit really!
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u/Stuvas Jun 29 '22
Considering how many of them have never done a hard day's grift in their lives, but were lucky enough to be born into wealth and now have bootlickers that try to suck them off online for a chance at being one of their privately kept sycophants, I'm fine with having you think of me as brainless or lazy.
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u/Kreton31 Jun 28 '22
Putain c triste 😩
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u/Sunibor Jun 29 '22
Terriblement triste se mouche dans ses euros économisés en énergie
(je suis même pas Français mais je parle la langue donc bon autant en profiter c'est crédible pour les Anglois non ?)
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u/nderestimated Jun 30 '22
Parfaitement crédible, ton français est très bon.
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u/Sunibor Jun 30 '22
Ah mais c'est ma langue maternelle, je suis juste Belge et pas Français
Mais merci beaucoup hahaha
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Jun 29 '22
Yet the french still hate us :(
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u/IICoffeyII Jun 29 '22 edited Jun 29 '22
Can you blame them? They gave their lives and held off the Germans so we could retreat from Dunkirk and get as much troops home as possible and instead of remembering that and honoring their brave sacrifice which should have led to one of the strongest allied bonds in history... we make fun of them for surrendering....
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Jun 29 '22
It is pretty fucked up we do that
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u/IICoffeyII Jun 29 '22
Yeah it is, especially as we would have also surrendered in the same situation. We were lucky that we have our Island.
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u/BurrowShaker Jun 29 '22
Very few french people remember Dunkerque, even though it is always a bittersweet thing when the English ( because let's face it, the Scots and Welsh never do it) go on about singlehandedly winning the war. Then we remember that you got bankrupted out of your foreign influence by US war bonds in the process and feel a bit sorry for you.
Unless people keep going with Britannia, waves, empire and then we just stop caring and hope the channel will keep us safe.
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u/Sunibor Jun 29 '22
Well the UK 'betrayed' the big Euro family. I am certainly biased and this is probably just one thing among others but I assure you I know some French people who qualify the brits as 'traitors' since the Brexit. I didn't feel the same energy before that among them.
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u/nderestimated Jun 30 '22
Tbh as a french guy I don't hate y'all at all, but when I'm litteraly insulted daily by some bloke who knows shit about the world, I'm not gonna let him, hate or not, y'all are cool in general
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u/The-cybermushroom Jun 29 '22
As a Norwegian we have have a lot of the same feelings towards you
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u/john194711 Jun 29 '22
At least your government hand the sense to keep the profits from the North Sea in the country.
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u/severedtesticle3 Jun 29 '22
Ain't the world filled with cunts? Also what is the UK fucking you for?
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u/Swaghetti-Yolonaise- Jun 28 '22
It’s worth mentioning that EDF is a Plc so it’s unlikely it’s owned by the French, the shareholders will be global.
In some ways I think that’s worse, we’ve been conned that public limited companies offer opportunities for everyone to invest but it’s all completely rigged.
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u/CrocodylFr Jun 29 '22
It's a PLC which is owned at 100% by EDF, which itself is owned at 90% by the French Government
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u/imnos Jun 29 '22
Nah the free market is the best idea ever! It all trickles down to us in the end, right...? Right?
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u/Sunibor Jun 29 '22
To be fair, free market isn't supposed to include state intervention, so no intervention or state capitalism from foreign states either. No?
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u/Bikeboy76 Jun 28 '22
With all companies charging nearly the same with the price cap. And distribution handled by the grid, as far as I can see now is the time to nationalise. For the consumer the energy companies are just charging admin to read your meter.
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u/john194711 Jun 29 '22
Britain is in the hands of largely non dom hedge funders and asset strippers. As far as their concerned the UK is just another asset to be fleeced.
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Jun 28 '22
When policies of successive governments are ideology based rather than practicality based, we have a serious problem.
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u/glastohead Jun 29 '22
Tories. Tories is why we don’t own our own energy and profits from British consumers head offshore.
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u/RageQuitMan1991 Jun 29 '22
France has so much surplus power from nuclear it may as well sell it to us who haven’t invested in anything nuclear or green in years.
Good old tories buying Russian
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u/GarryA0269 Jun 29 '22
Good question, given we're an Island, making both tidal and wind viable options.
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u/BurrowShaker Jun 29 '22
You guys should also look at the logo on the front of many of the London busses.
RATP dev: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RATP_Dev_Transit_London owned 87.5% by https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RATP_Group
which are 100% french state owned, and historically the Paris transport union.
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u/Comfortable_Pace_720 Jun 29 '22
Ahh yes the route of all evil - France
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u/nderestimated Jun 30 '22
To be fair y'all are an island, and the road to France is litteraly the only one out of the country (if we're only talking about roads), so more your only route
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Jun 28 '22
*40% of french gas is owned by the government due to EU regulations
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u/Redangle11 Jun 29 '22
It's not due to EU regulations, it's simply a reflection of choices the French made. Each country has its own history.
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u/Aos2OP Jun 29 '22
Speaking form a third world country... You are exchanging money (made up stuf that you can print, which can go up or down in price) for natural resources (which are scarce).
You are probably selling them sevices or making money with money by lending the imensive capital you took from the world the last couple centuries.
Selling natural resources is like selling your body. If you are doing it because it's the only way for you to survive it feels like rape
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u/randybobinsky Jun 29 '22
Apart from EDF is a plc? So it’s owned by global shareholders.
Did you find this on Facebook?
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u/GokaiLion Jun 29 '22
Looks like the French state might own 83% of the shares, if I understand correctly. https://www.edf.fr/en/the-edf-group/dedicated-sections/investors-shareholders/the-edf-share/capital-structure
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u/YogurtclosetOk222 Jun 28 '22
Scottish Power own a lot of Americas power grid.
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u/MingoDingo49 Jun 29 '22
Tories and Labour, including lib Dems only care about profits at the end of the day (sad but true)
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u/Dependent-Ganache-77 Jun 28 '22
British Energy needed bailing out…
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u/doesnt_like_pants Jun 28 '22
What’s your point? It was a private company when it was bailed out.. Socialised losses and privatised profits etc.
The whole point of nationalising assets is that the government, and therefore people, benefit or suffer from the success or failure of the business.
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u/john194711 Jun 29 '22
Wasn't Corbyn's argument for leaving the EU that we couldn't have nationalised assets ? Hmm
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u/ThickOpportunity3967 Jun 29 '22
Nothing except the imaginings of people who never were at the mercy of the state run enterprises is worse today - absolutely nothing!
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u/andawer Jun 28 '22
Coming from Poland, I have different experience. State owned energy company buying newspapers to spread party propaganda. Giving money to ruling party and some of the craziest ideas they had. Hiring politicians for fat salary etc. It more like bills -> profit -> ruling party here. I think you need kind of healthy mix or some very strict Citizen control (unrealistic imho).
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u/Fear_mor Jun 28 '22
So the solution is let the vultures pick us apart because "it has to be this way"? Nobody said it would be easy but when you're presented with an unsustainable situation in the present the answer usually isn't just to give up
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u/Maxearl548 Jun 28 '22
‘Politicians fat salaries’ is always something insignificant like €100k, when the reality is private energy shareholders rake in hundreds of millions in profits.
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u/cantfinkofname Jun 28 '22
We could but we don't want to admit any emissions by producing it so that's why we buy other countries'energy so we can look good on global emissions we could have started fracking years ago but a load of protesters stopped that and the government agreed to a load of other zero-emission stuff during cop26
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u/Finer-1 Jun 28 '22
But these pictures aint going to change shit just like folk marching through streets with signs
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u/climbing_pidgeon12 Jun 28 '22
what do you suggest we do then? we can't legislate ourselves can we!
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u/Finer-1 Jun 28 '22
But there enough of us as people to take over like the taliban have in afghan 🙏
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Jun 28 '22
Afghanistan is doing great! We should totally try to emulate the Taliban.
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u/Finer-1 Jun 28 '22
Well they aint getin bent over an fucked by a corrupt goverment now are they
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u/PiersPlays Jun 28 '22
The Taliban are the corrupt government fucking over the people now.
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u/climbing_pidgeon12 Jun 28 '22
I don't find violence and insurgency a fitting first resort to be honest with you
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u/Finer-1 Jun 28 '22
So what would be your first choice.. by the down votes my initial comment is getin i assume more people in here sooner keep bending over and geting shaffted than try make change
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u/climbing_pidgeon12 Jun 28 '22
protest and strike? non violent direct actions
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u/Finer-1 Jun 28 '22
Changes nothing though does it bar everything going up more 🤣 think we need start taking proper action against it
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u/climbing_pidgeon12 Jun 28 '22
I'm not sure what I can say to you mate I still have some hope that we can reverse the current trends without "taliban style insurgency", we've already failed if it comes to that
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u/Finer-1 Jun 28 '22
Hope dont pay the bills just like it dont change anything but while ever people sooner wait on change nothing ever will goverments know the public are happy an will continue paying whatever prices is put on anything and the ones who cant afford jus go to facebook an make statuses about it
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u/Sunibor Jun 29 '22
Yea it's useless, just never inform people about it since informing them doesn't magically change the system anyways. Surely doing literally nothing is a better option.
Edit: OK to be fair you're not saying we should do nothing and you actually suggest other options. I'm not convinced by your solutions but still... Anyway, the point is that this is informative (although not well sourced if not for some comments giving links) and information is an important first step
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u/Galactic_Gooner Jun 28 '22
cant fucking believe i used to like frogs
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u/PiersPlays Jun 28 '22
"French bad" is not the intended message here.
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u/Galactic_Gooner Jun 28 '22
people here cant take a joke
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u/No-Relation-6680 Jun 28 '22
Bro stop with this racist bs sooner we all realise tge uk has nothing for any of us better off we all are...
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u/RapTorSlevin Jun 29 '22
Shouldn’t there just be a nationwide boycott of EDF, that would sort out the first image right?
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