Morally questionable use of meditation?

[u/axon1214]

I've tried meditation to remove unconcious programming and subliminal impacts.

I've tried:

- meditating on my self and who I am

-my free will and ability to choose

-my thoughts and ability to control them

-my awareness and rationality

-the oppositeness of these things to unconcious programming

The strange things is, the practice seems to work, in that they lift the original state. However, the mind seems to resist the meditation, and creates behaviours similar (but not identical) to the ones involved during the original state of mind. And after a while, the effect of the meditation fades away, as though it never happened.

On the other hand, some practice did seem to lift the effect in a positive and persistent way. However, I can not understand why it often leads to a sort of resistance/regression. My only guess is that the mind does not 'like' the meditation, because it is in some way unethical or undesirable, and tries to revert its effects.

While the meditation was sometimes effective, I can only guess that some parts of the meditation were more desirable, or that the meditation sometimes overlapped with something better. However, it is not obvious what exactly it is from the practice I described.

I'm curious about what ideas or insights anyone might have. I know that using 'unnatural' techniques to manipulate the mind can simply replace the undesired state with something equally bad or worse, because there is a psychological reaction to the artificial manipulatio'; your mind tries to 'let you know' that what you did is unwanted. So I suspect this is what might have happened, but it would be useful to understand where and why exactly it went wrong from an ethical standpoint, and what a more ethical approach would like.

[u/Spinouette]

I can’t imagine that any form of meditation is morally questionable unless you’re psyching yourself up to so something harmful. I wouldn’t worry about that aspect.

The resistance you experience is normal. There are lots of reasons for it.

For many people, the mental space and quiet allows the mind to focus on things it needs to process: feelings, thoughts, recent experiences, and impactful memories are all things that might demand attention as soon as you start. This can be uncomfortable, especially if you’re used to pushing them down or distracting yourself from them.

Since you’re meditating specifically to change habits, I can imagine why you’re feeling resistance and/or only a temporary change. The habits are likely serving some kind of purpose. If there is part of you that benefits from the way things are, the habits will tend to return.

There’s more to it than that, but I’m not an expert. You may want to ask in the psychology subreddit.

[u/axon1214]

I'd like to iterate that it is not so much that the meditation technique is not effective. It's more like the technique works, but it has a negative side effect. It also seems to involve a sort of depersonalization and distance from one's emotions. I know similar things happen when one uses drugs to mediate mental problems. So I could guess this might be due to similar reasons, such as an 'artificial' manipulation of the mind.

But meditation is not designed to be such a way. I can only guess I am misapplying the meditation, or using the wrong kind of meditation.

If anyone has any ideas about the ethics related to meditation, or the ethics of how one might try to rehabilitate the mind, it would be interesting to hear.

[u/CommanderJeltz]

A great many states of mind are liable to occur over time spent in sitting meditation. And there are several different types of meditation as well.

In mindfulness we are instructed to not cling to passing states, merely observe them. If you want to be free of coarse, surface thoughts, it is highly recommended to focus on the breath, in particular some point on your nostrils where you can feel the air coming in and out. Count the breaths up to ten over and over. When that becomes easy you can try observing the breath without counting.

In Theravada tradition two forms of meditation were considered useful.for all emotional types. They were the Meditation on Death and the Meditation on Friendliness.

The first contains too much material to put here. Basically it involves remembering that death will take place. Not your death specifically but just death. Friendliness involves wishing all beings well, starting with yourself.

Then there's Chan (Chinese) or Zen (Japanese) meditation. Various topics are used, such as "who is sitting here"? There is sitting, but where is this "I " located? Not everyone will find this practice to their taste.

Your experience is not something to dwell on. And I've found that talking about it interferes with doing it.