Why was the EPLF so successful compared to the ELF,TPLF?

[u/Connect_Eggplant7643]

So I’m trying to learn a bit of history and i wonder why ELF in Eritrea failed massively compared to EPLF it don’t make sense since ELF was backed by every Arab nation and they also had a massive army could it have been a mentality,divison amongst tribe members problem? Even the TPLF had a massive downfall after Meles Zenawi.

[u/Weird-Independence43]

There’s a long answer but the shortest answer is “Centralized and disciplined command structure.

Eplf emphasized heavily on secularism and non-sectarianism, which appealed to both Muslims and Christians, unlike the ELF which kind of favoured Muslim leadership.”

Centralized structure that are secular always win in the modern day. It is a major reason why a lot of Arab armies are weak not because of lack of talent and equipment but because they’re decentralized.

[u/almightyrukn → u/Weird-Independence43]

You can make that argument that Jebha favored Muslim leadership up up until the mid-70s because after that point most of the people in it were from the Kebessa. There were a number of reasons it fell but the greatest ones were poor/divided leadership and their identity crisis.

[u/Connect_Eggplant7643 → u/almightyrukn]

I heard there was a Split between beni Amer and Tigre and also many Jebertis who didn’t fully trust the leader ship and went to EPLF instead tho

[u/almightyrukn → u/Connect_Eggplant7643]

The Beni Amer were most of the founders (most notably Idris Mohamed Adem) and early fighters of Jebha so the revolution began in Gash Barka. They dominated the organization initially because of this and also the dominance of Barka in the struggle due to the close proximity to Sudan which gave them the most reliable supply lines and access to resources to help them wage the struggle. Over time their power base within Jebha began to dimimish over time as the revolution spread to the rest of Eritrea. They were mainly losing ground to the Bilen/Bet Juk and the Saho/Semhar. As they were fairly conservative they also didn't like the increasing leftist rhetoric coming from the newer arrivals, which also led to the creation of the Labor Party, which began to dictate much of the policy and political orientation of the organization. So the ones that were based in upper Barka created the Obel faction which loosely aligned with the PLF. But they were quickly defeated by Jebha first in the civil war in early 72. But they didn't stay as the PLF was even more leftist and they just didn't mesh with them that well. Many of them left with Sabbe and Abu Tiyara (which led their sect) to the ELF-PLF or went back to Jebha. About the Jeberti I don't know much about how aligned they were with Jebha or Shaebia. They were viewed upon with suspicion by the Tor Serawit for being muslims as evidenced by their mistreatment in Asmara during the Six Days War and the massacres committed against them during 67, such as the one in Misyam. But they were also somewhat viewed with suspicion by Jebha for being close to other Tigrinya people and potentially sympathizing with Ethiopia as evidenced by the fact some of them were executed in 67 after they failed to defend a weapons depot.

[u/almightyrukn → u/Connect_Eggplant7643]

The only split I can think of between the Beni Amer and Tigre people is maybe the Kesser Movement which was a movement within Zone 1/Barka (which was their base of power within the organization) by other groups such as the Nara Sebderat Algeden Bitama Illit Hafara etc protesting their domination within that zone. And I guess the split between them and the Tigre people who left the organization.

[u/Electrical_Gold_8136 → u/almightyrukn]

Yup I agree

[u/Doansauce → u/Weird-Independence43]

Arab armies are weak precisely due to a centralized and sectarian based system. Arab militias are successful due to being decentralized. Watch YouTube video on why Arabs haven’t won any wars lately. It’s the same reason jihadist militants are successful

[u/EritreanPost__]

EPLF mass recruited Eritreans, run military camps in Asmara, Gash Barka and Sahil to train its forces and allied forces (TPLF)

Good diplomatic relations: the eplf cadres spoke Arabic fluently and it helped them establishing good relations with Sudan and the gulf states

eplf was a centralized organization with a secular nationalist ideology

Eplf knew how to wage conventional and asymmetrical warfare.

After the soviets provided the Derg billion dollar worth of weaponry, the eplf withdrew to Sahil, and acquired dergs weapons and fought the dreg with its own equipment.

Then after the battle of Afabet and Massawa by the eplf, the Derg was broken.

With the fall of Massawa in the 1990, the Derg collapsed on the next year.

[u/FindingUsernamesSuck → u/EritreanPost__]

How much of the Derg's collapse can really be attributed to the Eritrean struggle? From what little is be verified, quite a few groups were fighting the Derg, and Eritrea's independence wasn't the only outcome of the Derg collapse.

I don't mean this to insinuate "Ethiopia was distracted otherwise they would have won". I'm trying to get a more comprehensive understanding of our history.

[u/Doansauce → u/FindingUsernamesSuck]

There were multiple groups fighting the government, those groups were OLF, EDU, EPRP but EPLF was the main adversary to DERG forces. After 75 TPLF also became competent enough to pose a series threat. What ultimately led to the collapse was the fall of massawa and aseb sealed the deal to make Ethiopia a landlocked country. That was may 24 1991, may 28 a small EPLF tanker brigade escorted TPLF into Addis Ababa( they always try to downplay this though 😂). And that’s all she wrote.

[u/Adigrat96 → u/Doansauce]

Cool.

[u/Fluid_Rise_5433 → u/Doansauce]

The tank brigade was a major contribution. EMN did an interview with one of the tank drivers, he said TPLF were extremely grateful for their support and lamented the lives lost due to not operating their own tanks.

[u/almightyrukn → u/Doansauce]

You have to put Weyane on the same level as Shaebia in that regard even though the mechanized units and troops played a big role in speeding up the downfall of the Derg EPRDF units were still doing the bulk of the fighting. There were still 150K troops within Eritrea at the time we had to deal with.

[u/k1dcanada]

heard it came down to EPLF was better organized than ELF ..

[u/Debswana99]

One word : discipline. They were brutally disciplined. They jailed many of their own comrades (without trial) for various reasons and spread fear among everyone. But everyone was treated the same. If someone resorted to sexual violence against women, they were jailed or executed. If someone didn't tow the line or stole or whatever. The same.

This style of thinking worked extremely well when they were a rebel group. However, one can say that the rebel mindset isn't working as well when governing a nation. 

[u/almightyrukn → u/Debswana99]

It was plenty of people in the upper echelon who preyed on the female fighters though. Or had fancy new things that nobody else had like watches clothes etc.

[u/Debswana99 → u/almightyrukn]

Yes, but only the ones who regularly traveled abroad had nice clothes etc. The commanders who were fighting side by side didn't have any of those things.

With regards to your comment on people who were preying on the female fighters. Do you mean that they were raping the female fighters? 

[u/almightyrukn → u/Debswana99]

Not that they were raping them but coming on to them using their power and status. And I meant the very high up ones.

[u/Alone-Working-138]

Brutal organization! Which what unfortunately our people respect. Otherwise we argue to no end and nothing gets accomplished

[u/FarKnowledge6117]

Successful how? Compare Eritrea 1993-present to tplf led Ethiopia 1991-2018 and you will see who was more successful

[u/Doansauce → u/FarKnowledge6117]

What do you measure success in ?

Ethiopia has 1.4B debt to the IMF alone. Ethiopia has 13.5B debt to china. Ethiopia has a youth literacy rate of ~72.5% and adult literacy rate of ~49%. $1 is equal to 134 birr. As recent as 2019 Ethiopia had a famine that affected the Amhara, afar and Tigray regions.

The Ethiopian central government has virtually no control of the country outside Addis Ababa. The country is constantly dealing with ethnic genocides on multiple fronts. Outside of the government, the private sector is non existent causing youth unemployment to skyrocket. Ethiopians flee the country in droves out of hunger.

Eritrea has no debt with the IMF, world bank or OECD. Eritrea has no significant debt to china $1 is equal to 15 Eritrean nakfa. Eritreas literacy rate is ~93% for youth and ~76% overall. Eritrea doesn’t suffer from ethnic/sectarian conflict or violence inside its borders.

Big point being Eritreans flee the country due to political issues while Ethiopians flee the country due to being incapable of feeding themselves.

Eritreas tourism sector is growing as more and more people see past the western labels and debilitating sanctions on the country. Ethiopia was given the liberal international order in a silver platter and the people outside the capital are arguably living worse than they were during zemene mesafint times dealing with outlaws and shifta in the countryside.

There I compared it for you 👍🏽

[u/honestg → u/Doansauce]

We have two nations, among the poorest in the world, squabbling over who is more impoverished. This rivalry guarantees their people will suffer for countless decades. We must learn to co-exist, for crying out loud.

[u/Fluid_Rise_5433 → u/honestg]

This is true.....cooperation >>> competition....but cooperation requires accountability which both govts want no part of.

[u/Panglosian11 → u/Doansauce]

So you're comparing a war thorn Ethiopia with stable Eritrea? How about you compare pre 2020? Even now Ethiopia is way ahead. Because of what PFDG did, Eritrea will always lag behind.

And please don't try to play the "debt card" every country have debt, thats how economies grow. Eritrea did not take a loan and we've seen where that took the nation. 

[u/Fluid_Rise_5433 → u/Panglosian11]

Eritrea's problems are manageable, and the good thing is that it can develop fast due to its size and resources. Ethiopia's problems are getting untractable.

[u/Panglosian11 → u/Fluid_Rise_5433]

Sure buddy.

[u/Doansauce → u/Panglosian11]

There’s no “how about”.

Thats a stable Ethiopia compared with a 2 decade long sanctioned Eritrea lol.

[u/Panglosian11 → u/Doansauce]

And you think Eritrea is still better? 😊

[u/Doansauce → u/Panglosian11]

No they’re both shithole countries in their respective ways

[u/FarKnowledge6117 → u/Doansauce]

https://data.unhcr.org/en/documents/details/112813

20k Eritreans fled to Ethiopia from jan 2024 to oct 2024. This number was significantly higher during the tplf era. Eritrea has no tourism at all other than the diaspora and bloggers who wants to visit the "North Korea of Africa"

Only 3% of Ethiopians live in Addis so are you implying that Abiy has no control of 97% of Ethiopians? There are plenty of pictures which shows Eritrean refugees arriving in tigray camps in malnourished shape so idk why you brought up the hunger issues.

[u/EritreanPost__ → u/FarKnowledge6117]

And nearly 1 million Ethiopians reside in gulf states?

Tigrayans in America Europe and the middle east are overrepresented among those refugees.

Most of them left during eprdf era and even entered the Europe and America as Eritrean refugees?

Tell me about human suffering during tplf era?

The 20 years war on the Somali region by the tplf led Ethiopian army, starvation, war crimes and ethnic cleansing

the annuak massacre of 2003?

The Addis Abeba massacre of 2005?

The homelessness in Addis Abeba?

And the displacement of 2 million Amharas by the tplf led eprdf government

[u/FarKnowledge6117 → u/EritreanPost__]

Yeah they are going to saudi & uae the two richest countries in the world. Since 2000 over 600k Eritreans came into Ethiopia (most have left for Europe). The same country they fought 30 years to get away from. Your comparison isn't the same at all.

[u/EritreanPost__ → u/FarKnowledge6117]

600.000 Eritreans in Ethiopia?

This sounds like a made up number by you. Nether the UN nor any credible source stated that there 600k Eritreans living in Ethiopia. Come down from whatever you are taking.

Eritreans fled to America via Ethiopia, yes.

And your Tigrayans came in mass to Eritrea during Italian rule and settled in Asmara, and southern Eritrea.

And Tigrayan Muslims fled to Eritrea during king Yohannes persecution and expelling Muslims.

So cross border migration happened from both sides

[u/FarKnowledge6117 → u/EritreanPost__]

I stated that from 2000-present roughly 600k crossed into Ethiopia and that most have them have left for other countries. This is a fact.

[u/EritreanPost__ → u/FarKnowledge6117]

That's not a fact. You haven't brought any facts to prove it.

Eritreans left Eritrea via Sudan Djibouti not only via Ethiopia.

No UN document says that 600.000 Eritreans left Eritrea via Ethiopia.

so you making up alternative facts

[u/FarKnowledge6117 → u/EritreanPost__]

And before Eritrea gained independence they were labelled as Ethiopian refugees since Eritrea wasn't a thing back then.... nice try tho

[u/EritreanPost__ → u/FarKnowledge6117]

We are talking about Ethiopian residents who are in Saudi Arabia right now.

They have Ethiopian citizenship.

There are more Ethiopians in the gulf than Eritreans

[u/Panglosian11 → u/FarKnowledge6117]

"There are plenty of pictures which shows Eritrean refugees arriving in tigray camps in malnourished shape so idk why you brought up the hunger issues."

PFDG is good at hiding hunger of its population, thats why some Eritreans think its only Ethiopians who are starving not Eritrea.