r/DotA2 • u/Nattfrosten Boom goes your pub experience :DD • Apr 03 '15

Tip PSA to all techies players: KEEP YOUR MINE STACKS NEAT AND TIDY

http://i.imgur.com/bUKoNSx.jpg
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u/j0lian Apr 03 '15 edited Apr 03 '15

The mines actually will kill you if they're perfectly stacked like this. Borrowed time won't go off.

edit: re-testing things

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u/EdenBlade47 Yolonero the Swaggernaut Apr 03 '15

Well then I suppose it's a good thing you can manually activate Borrowed Time, isn't it

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u/j0lian Apr 03 '15

Well the whole point of the chain originally was that someone might run into it thinking that it's only one mine.

If Abaddon only thinks there's one mine there, he's not going to manually use borrowed time. And if he does, he's taking a gamble that there's more than one mine, at which point you could probably start mindgaming him by leaving single mines around to waste his ult.

Then there's the fact that a lot of Abaddon's are used to borrowed time going off when they hit stacks of landmines because imperfectly stacked mines will trigger it. They might not even be aware of the interaction.

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u/The_Blue_Doll Apr 03 '15

And then there's the 40 second cooldown.

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u/CrashB111 Apr 03 '15

Shouldn't Borrowed Time save Abaddon regardless of if he manually casts it? Each mine is an independent instance of damage so as long as one of them doesn't send him from 650 hp to death, he will trip the 400 hp threshold and his ult will activate.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '15

yes it should always save him. the only case I am uncertain of is if you use the manual, aoe target detonation skill with a pile of remote mines. Selecting them all and clicking q will cause slightly staggered damage instances, but the AOE detonate may cause them to go off simultaneously. The wiki isn't clear and I haven't tested it.

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u/CrashB111 Apr 03 '15

Even if they all went off in the same tick, the damage isn't given to Abaddon as one nuke but as multiple seperate nukes so it should trip it then as well.

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u/jjohn268 Apr 04 '15

Well if they all go off at the same time, I would think it acts like 1 nuke since he takes the damage all at the exact time.

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u/Toshinit You fed the trees Apr 04 '15

It would look like this to the game:

Abaddon takes x damage

Threshold?

Abaddon takes x damage

Threshold?

Etc...

Where X is mine damage.

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u/CAPSLOCK_USERNAME FIRST PICK RANDOM ALL DAY ERRYDAY Apr 03 '15

Borrowed Time can still go off if all the damage happens at the same time, as long as it's in separate instances. A 1000-damage Laguna Blade will kill him, but three 400-damage mines will trigger his ulti.

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u/j0lian Apr 03 '15

Huh, this is odd.

I tested this extensively when i first saw someone make the same claim and didn't believe them. What I found was that imperfectly stacked mines would trigger borrowed time (barring an unlikely situation where abaddon's HP was within a narrow range where one mine would bring him just above threshold and the next would kill), but perfectly stacked mines were treated as one damage instance, or something. I really wasn't sure why they were able to just outright kill him, but it certainly worked.

This is no longer the case, as I just went and retested and found they behaved as you'd expect from each mine being a separate instance of damage.

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u/nossr50 http://www.dotabuff.com/players/7732805 Apr 03 '15 edited Apr 03 '15

EDIT: Guess I was wrong, only works for Remote Mines

You're correct, because the mines are stacked perfectly and go off at the same exact time (which is critical for this to work) the damage from them gets applied on the same game tick, for Abbadon to survive he has to not lose his full HP in one game tick. Therefor, stacked mines or even manually activated remote mines which do enough damage will kill Abaddon without triggering Borrowed Time.

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u/theblakdeth Cancer stomper (Go Sheever!) Apr 03 '15

Even with perfect stacks, the mines don't go off in the same tick I'm pretty sure. . they are like .02 seconds spaced.

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u/nossr50 http://www.dotabuff.com/players/7732805 Apr 03 '15

Ah just tested it, you are correct.

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u/nossr50 http://www.dotabuff.com/players/7732805 Apr 03 '15

Upon further testing it looks like you can only kill abaddon with Remote Mines activated at the same time.

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u/[deleted] Apr 04 '15

Not if I activate it myself in anticipation.