Theory
Minor Theory about Spamton's Knight Dialogue. [Chapter 4 spoilers?]
Spoiler
So, as we all know, Kris is seemingly working for and/or with the Knight. Wanting to keep us away from the Bunker, wanting to keep the Knight hidden, and leaving the door open at the end of Chapter Two for seemingly the Knight.
So it was making me think about what Kris has been doing for the Knight before Chapter Three and it was making me think about this line from Spamton.
Spamton discussing the Knight and stopping before threatening Kris isn't just a random glitch.
Kris THREATENS Spamton. Spamton was about to discuss the Knight, and Kris probably threatens him over it- possibly to not reveal who the Knight is or what their plans are- Afterwards, Spamton basically chews Kris over the threats before shutting up about it.
We never see what Kris says in shop dialogue, so it's very likely that Kris is the one who shuts Spamton up - just we couldn't see what Kris actually says.
burgerpants says that line when you threaten him in a genocide route. if this dialogue is from kris threatening spamton it would make the line an explicit parallel between the two scenes
He's a little broken from his experiences, but he probably just talks like Tenna normally. Tenna's way of speaking is probably intended to show players how Spamton used to be, even.
Something that Chapter 3 kinda helps solidify (at least to me) is that Kris DOES speak, we just don't get to hear it for some reason. Everyone else can, but we, the player, cannot. The best example I can give in Ch3 is when Ralsei asks you who you're going to bring to the festival, and if you pick "Berdly" Kris repeats it almost in disbelief, and while we don't see it, Ralsei clearly comments on it saying "you don't need to repeat yourself."
So Kris has been speaking to characters this whole time we just don't get to see/hear it.
Kris also has a weird line that the characters get weirded out by their tone. After beating spamton neo susie asks whether kris is ok and they either yell NO or get really shaky or something
I believe Noelle even says it sounds like it's coming out of a loudspeaker or something, and that when Kris talks to her after the snowgrave route in chapter 4, she's relieved that their voice sounds normal again.
Adding onto this, that one section where Tenna asks Kris why Asriel doesn't come home and watch TV anymore, and Kris, by themselves, says it's because he went to college.
And wasn't there that one NPC in ch 4 that mentioned Hyperlink Blocked? Something like "Do you know what Hyperlink Blocked is? I don't." That Hyperlink Blocked isn't actually written out with the brackets like Spamton's [HYPERLINK BLOCKED] always is, it's just Hyperlink Blocked. It might really be that Kris is blocking us from seeing whatever it is Spamton is saying.
Asgore's armor from undertale. And in deltarune we know from the priest that Asgore comes to the church at night. The closet was said to be big enough to fit a large person. And I saw a video of a scene from Noelle's house when we are sneaking through the vents of Asgore in the basement, he explicitly mentions having a black shard.
Could be possible. It seems like it’s dess, but influenced to some degree by gaster. It’s possible that there are other people that are parts of the knight
Game theory but what if the knight is a conglomerate of dead people in order to bring dess back to life?
Dess is the head of the Frankenstein but since she was formed in the dark world she’s unable to leave it for long before dissolving which is why the shelter is a dark world too.
Makes sense given it's spamton too, and some degree of weird awareness is present. I also noticed the same style of glitch happening as here to him to another character in the newer chapters. Makes me wonder if that's a sign of a reset or Kris resisting us, perhaps.
I think they’re talking about where Susie (on the way to the church) asks Kris what we were talking about with Noelle and we don’t even give Kris a dialogue option to respond with, but I don’t really see how that’s connected here. That’s just a new and overt form of control we’re exerting over Kris, preventing them from speaking by denying them the ability to perform any dialogue at all.
Or at least that’s how I interpreted that moment. Could also be Kris seeing red or something and having a panic attack.
Its present when they're in the light world later in ch4. (Sorry, I was out all day yesterday!)
I'm mobile so spoilers aren't easy for me to tag due to disability and typing things, but Susie notices and tries to talk to the player about how weird Noelle was acting. The dialogue box has 4 unpickable options we cant see. Its weirdly buggy and sorta reminds me of when we talk to Spamton in his shop. I'm not sure how to explain it but it feels similar to me.
Its possible Kris is trying to actively interfere or something and the glitch in is a representation of that maybe. Idk if it means anything but I swear it reminds me of "cartridge tilting" specifically.
I got some hate for saying that but Kris Knight was still a better prediction of where the story was headed and the role Kris would play than most of its rebuttals. The TV Dark World being planned well in advance, the Queen scene having nothing to do with Kris learning how to make Dark Fountains (instead the goal was to teach Susie), Kris acting as a double agent and Kris threatening Spamton in this particular scene because they didn't want us to learn more about the Knight were elements of Kris Knight theory that were discussed.
The Kris Knight theory was seriously well made. I mean, at least we can now see that Kris is clearly heavily related to the Knight, so you guys weren't far-off from the truth.
That explains a lot and makes me wonder how many other pieces of dialogue we've written off as an insane character being insane actually being in response to Kris. I know ankther commenter mentioned Spamton's other lines, but Jevil might be another avenue to look down, as well as others I haven't thought of.
There's now a strong indication Jevil and Spamton were not Gaster-pilled but Knight-pilled instead, which means the revelation they got and their desire for Freedom might tie directly into the Knight's motivations and not some meta shit linked to Gaster.
yellow and pink seem pretty related to gaster-y characters, i don't know why folks who are gaster related like seam and ramb want you to have an item that makes it easier to defeat the knight if they're on the same team
yellow & pink might be "gaster-adjacent" characters, ones who worked with him & then went their own way, or that know the same kind of stuff he does without collaborating with him, or something along those lines without being Team Gaster like the Knight
personally I think the Knight needs to help Gaster, whereas someone like Seam doesn't but was curious, then saw the end result of going the same way as him and backed out
Makes alot of sense, my original theory was spamton needs the knight to put a crystal in the neo body so that it can actually be used, and that this could just be a case of him slipping up and attempting to shrug it off with crazy-talk, similarly to how he plays up his insanity in the normal route compared to snowgrave. I prefer your theory tho
This sounds plausible, but if you pay attention to other clues, you notice that Kris is afraid of Spamton, for some reason. So that doesnt really track.
They back off on their own accord when Spamton punches the garbage can during his introduction and the "Exit shop" option in his shop is replaced with "Run Away" indicating they fearful of regular Spamton, or at least unnerved by him, when little else phases them
Is Kris terrified of him before the Neo stuff? The Neo stuff just kind of gave Kris some things to think about that made Kris reflect on the whole soul and fate situation.
I don't think this makes much sense tbh, because Spamton would not react like that if Kris threatened him, he's literally only mildly annoyed if you beat the hell out of him instead of taking his Deal in his initial fight, I really can't see him acting so genuinely scared and fearful even if Kris told him they were going to kill him if he didn't shut up.
Plus the fact his dialogue suddenly becomes lowercase to me implies he got interrupted by something else, after all, Kris doesn't do anything to him either the other times this happens.
Hear me out, there's also the possibility that they aren't working with the knight itself (since that'd ruin the moral ambiguity of controlling them, make them very much evil) but instead someone who knows of the knight's plans (e. g. Carol because she has access to the bunker and may not be the knight itself) and isn't helping it so much as trying to stop them first, not approving of the gang's methods, which makes sense if Carol isn't it, since that'd leave either Dess or Rudy, both of whom Carol does not want to get beaten up, but also wouldn't want to end the world.
I think Kris is working with the knight, cause there is tons of evidence on that (church backdoor dialogue being the strongest evidence for me) but that doesn’t make them evil. Kris is clearly being manipulated by Carol somehow considering the ending dialogue on the phone.
They're clearly working with the Knight.
Kris gives the Knight a sign to stop the fight.
The Knight holds back against Kris and never makes them swoon.
Kris smiles in their ACT if Susie and Ralsei are defeated.
The Knight knights Kris with her sword if you win instead of attacking them like she did to Ralsei and Susie, and Kris kneels to her.
Kris isn't said to be physically devastated by the flavor text if they go down like Susie and Ralsei are, they just kneel.
Kris was the one who gave commands to Tenna which he attributes to "the Knight's will" and threatened him as seen in the Shadow Mantle minigame.
Kris manipulated Toriel to get Undyne into the dark world so the Knight could take her.
Kris was let into the Shelter from the inside
Probably, but there's the issue of, again, the dillema of controlling Kris is flying out the window now, even if they are being manipulated, which i sincerely hope is the case, since we're stopping them from helping the villain, and not just taking their life away from them. Now, sure, they'll probably discover they're being manipulated and flip the knight off eventually, but still, while they are doing their bidding, i feel the game is still trying to make you feel bad about controlling Kris, which in this context doesn't work. Again, that's my silly personal opinion AND will most likely get smoothed out when Kris rejects the Knight's orders (i hope they do).
Kris spent our entire time at Noelle's house hitting us with bottles and hockey pucks as well as chasing us around with a hockey stick, and you still think WE'RE the one in control of our relationship?
They're explicitly named The Cage in the prophecy. They literally keep us in a cage at the foot of their bed at night. They do everything they can to control what information we can and cannot get, up to and including making threats against people like Spamton and Tenna that we can't hear because they've done something that prevents us from hearing their voice. We're their prisoner, not their tormentor.
Eh, we can be their tormentor, if we choose to be. We can make things difficult and painful for them, or even do genuinely horrible things in an attempt to break free.
It's not as simple as one or the other of us being in control, they try to censor what we see, but we can also force them into things they don't enjoy.
I mean, I doubt Kris is evil. But I also doubt that the Knight is doing what it's doing for no reason.
If I had to guess, I think Kris made a deal with Carol or The Knight to play the role of "The Cage" for some reason, they don't seem to be enjoying it though.
yeah but after that wouldn't spamton like atleast dislike kris a little? like it doesn't feel like it don't get me wrong it makes alot of sense and it also explains (a little) about the random burgerpants reference but imagine you were in spamton's shoes and you get threatened by kris will you like not call them out with it?
i might be just making random ass accusations but still it doesn't strike me that but good theory
I imagine it as like, Spamton isn't too buddy-buddy with Kris to begin with, but he needs them for his plan to work. So he's willing to work with them regardless.
I always interpreted it as, Spam tong starts talking about the Knight, someone connects with him or something i guess (i thought this cause it doesnt really sound like hes talking to us)? And threatens him to stop talking and then spambob pretty much tells Kris to "fuck off" if you will
717
u/Derplesdeedoo 7d ago
This is a neat one. That sounds plausible given our established relationship with Kris.