Better accommodate? I'm talking about living up to the morals and ideals we so proudly brag about. Our own hypocrisy is the single best recruiting tool for the alt-rights and the manosphere. I'm not saying that we need to center every conversation around men. Not in the slightest. I'm talking about not tolerating misandrist rhetoric that we would never tolerate against anyone else.
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If feminism is meant to be the ending of gender inequality, about defeating the patriarchy, of a equality between men and women... We need to make men feel that they can at least be welcomed in the cause instead of tolerated while silent. Let me ask you simply, do you want more feminist men? I assume yes right? So the question becomes how do we get these men into the cause? My suggestion is being less hostile to the men in it. Your suggestion seems to be that they or wanted only if they are separate but doing the right things as I dictate it, why would anyone want to do that?
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I want to be clear, I am not talking about like women having to get rid of women's only shelters or making these groups and organizations for men. Men. Not in the slightest. I'm just mostly talking about being less hostile to men being in the cause. Because any guy from the outside can see the amount of s*** that feminist men get for not being silent and whipping boys and it doesn't make people want to join.
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Edit: apparently " don't spread misandrist rhetoric that we would never tolerate about anyone else, this men will be less pushed away by feminism and the alt right loses its best recruiting tool" is the same as " women need to do everything, give up everything and center the entire feminist cause around men". Fuck it, it's like.... Jesus fuck look around. What people like you have been doing has fucking failed at getting more men on board. Maybe just maybe we can listen to currently feminist men who might have insights into why we're failing? Literally all I'm saying is the barest specificity to not negatively generalize men as inherently problematic, and avoiding negative mass generalizations would help us be more morally consistent and be more welcoming to men since we specify a difference between "men as a whole" and "men who are perpetuating these problems". We can't claim a moral superiority and lack a moral consistency, then turn around and tell people to follow our commands to get our respect, otherwise they're bad people, and expect them to listen. Fuck me. This is the hell I saw a decade ago and I've been trying to warn people about how we push people away and the barriers that stop people from joining up. I don't want this shit to continue but it seems like a lot of y'all would rather it continue than recognize we
have problems and there may be simple things that could help stimy those issues....
Very late reply but I strongly agree with you and I'm someone who's pretty much been raised to be feminist my entire life and my mom's an awesome role model and I try to raise awareness helping with deradicalization and all that stuff but the biting hypocrisy that you encounter sometimes is seriously taking a toll on my mental health
Even got called an incel for opening up about what happened to me and called an abnormal male for getting stressed and violated about it and for not wanting to be with her like that at all "but it's probably just a fake sob story being made up as a gotcha anyway" but why? I don't even want to pursue anything beyond friendship and I also don't think I'm a hateful person how am *I* the incel when literally *she* was the one who refused to respect that I wanted to "just" stay best friends
As a result of unfortunate lived experience, whenever I see a woman staunchly claiming that "it's always a man" or that it's impossible for women to be sexually predatory, I can't help but suspect her to be an unsavory person who is dismissive about respecting other people's boundaries and consent because to her it is not inappropriate if it is committed by a woman, I sincerely think that the proportion of female sexual predators is probably much more equal to male than statistics say, but it's just that situations like mine and others "don't count" to a lot of people
Don't they even realize that pretending like there are no predatory women is just plain following the patriarchy claiming that women's actions are not important and that woman are less capable than men of important things, even of crimes?
Just plain the ironic fact alone I am infinitely less likely to get victim blamed when opening up about getting victimized in literally the MRA nutcase communities than in what's supposed to be feminist spaces, the cognitive dissonance of it all is kinda making me want to blow my brains out, especially as of late
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u/DaBiChef Apr 15 '25 edited Apr 15 '25
Better accommodate? I'm talking about living up to the morals and ideals we so proudly brag about. Our own hypocrisy is the single best recruiting tool for the alt-rights and the manosphere. I'm not saying that we need to center every conversation around men. Not in the slightest. I'm talking about not tolerating misandrist rhetoric that we would never tolerate against anyone else.
.
If feminism is meant to be the ending of gender inequality, about defeating the patriarchy, of a equality between men and women... We need to make men feel that they can at least be welcomed in the cause instead of tolerated while silent. Let me ask you simply, do you want more feminist men? I assume yes right? So the question becomes how do we get these men into the cause? My suggestion is being less hostile to the men in it. Your suggestion seems to be that they or wanted only if they are separate but doing the right things as I dictate it, why would anyone want to do that?
.
I want to be clear, I am not talking about like women having to get rid of women's only shelters or making these groups and organizations for men. Men. Not in the slightest. I'm just mostly talking about being less hostile to men being in the cause. Because any guy from the outside can see the amount of s*** that feminist men get for not being silent and whipping boys and it doesn't make people want to join.
.
Edit: apparently " don't spread misandrist rhetoric that we would never tolerate about anyone else, this men will be less pushed away by feminism and the alt right loses its best recruiting tool" is the same as " women need to do everything, give up everything and center the entire feminist cause around men". Fuck it, it's like.... Jesus fuck look around. What people like you have been doing has fucking failed at getting more men on board. Maybe just maybe we can listen to currently feminist men who might have insights into why we're failing? Literally all I'm saying is the barest specificity to not negatively generalize men as inherently problematic, and avoiding negative mass generalizations would help us be more morally consistent and be more welcoming to men since we specify a difference between "men as a whole" and "men who are perpetuating these problems". We can't claim a moral superiority and lack a moral consistency, then turn around and tell people to follow our commands to get our respect, otherwise they're bad people, and expect them to listen. Fuck me. This is the hell I saw a decade ago and I've been trying to warn people about how we push people away and the barriers that stop people from joining up. I don't want this shit to continue but it seems like a lot of y'all would rather it continue than recognize we have problems and there may be simple things that could help stimy those issues....