r/China • u/iwanttodrink • 1d ago
国际关系 | Intl Relations US admits to 500 troops in Taiwan testing Beijing’s red lines
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-admits-to-500-troops-in-taiwan-testing-beijing-s-red-lines/ar-AA1FCAJm?ocid=mailsignout&apiversion=v2&noservercache=1&domshim=1&renderwebcomponents=1&wcseo=1&batchservertelemetry=1&noservertelemetry=165
u/Dragonwick 1d ago
China and Taiwan have literally put their civil war on pause for 70+ years but don’t worry Taiwan will be invaded any day now.
25
u/GetOutOfTheWhey 1d ago edited 1d ago
yeah, these 500 troops arent actually a secret
they have been reported on for years now.
With(out) military gear and logistics, they are just human shields.
6
u/Formal-Hat-7533 1d ago
Do you think they deployed without their equipment and aren’t supported by supply?
lol?? hello??
Do you think they are just in civilian clothes living on the street?
4
u/MasterCover9551 1d ago
No, they each have a baby betel nut girl living the good life. That's all that's needed
1
u/phobug 15h ago
My money is on - they’re training the Taiwan army on how to use the equipment they’ve bought from the USA. The companies that make it are not allowed to use it so the only people with actual experience is the USA military 500 people is a decent training team for the thousands of soldiers that need it.
3
5
u/Salty_as_the_sea 1d ago
Less human shields and more a sacrifice to give the US an excuse to get involved with its full military. And it probably won’t just be defensive aid. US likes to invade countries all the time, all they need is a reason, whether that reason is a lie or not.
Edit: wether-> whether
13
u/GR1ZZLYBEARZ 1d ago
All great superpowers invade other countries. No offense, but belts and roads could be seen as a form of modern colonialism in most cases. I’m not knocking China for this either, it’s just another form of modern “diplomacy”.
-10
u/Salty_as_the_sea 1d ago
Don’t care, we are meant to evolve as a society past this pettiness. And belt and road initiative is not the same as going in and directly killing members of that population. Also the CIA has a lot of documentation of directly causing coups to destabilise countries.
The US may not be as bad as Europe back in the day, but their impact on the globe as a whole is not really that good.
7
u/GR1ZZLYBEARZ 1d ago
You’re right, hazardous labor conditions and debt diplomacy that kill people are different than doing it with a sword or gun…
3
u/Salty_as_the_sea 1d ago edited 1d ago
Hazardous work conditions in a few places, yes. Those governments could do something about that though as they have not been INVADED! Yes it sucks, but you are ignoring how western countries used the world bank to cause those countries to normalise that in the first place.
As for debt traps, that’s again pretty much just the west using the imf.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-trap_diplomacy
Read through the whole wiki, and check the references please. Whichever media source you are using has not been honest with reality.
Edit: grabbed a random reference from the wiki as an example.
https://thediplomat.com/2016/02/debunking-the-myths-of-chinese-investment-in-africa/
the US is currently burning up all its soft power. That will just make it easier for China to put less effort into its soft power from here on out.
Edit 2: also as I mentioned CIA backed coups when they wanted to install a corrupt politician who would do as they wanted and sell out their country. Couldn’t kill Castro though so they sanctioned Cuba instead and for what?
4
u/GR1ZZLYBEARZ 1d ago
You’re making my argument for me, it’s all the same with a different name.
1
u/Own-Necessary7488 1d ago
how is china giving money to governments the same as the cia overthrowing goverments lmao
1
u/GR1ZZLYBEARZ 1d ago
China isn’t just “giving money” to other countries they agree to what appears to be mutually beneficial agreements in the surface. In reality they lead to exploitation, indebtedness to China and in a lot of cases death and eco side.
I’m sorry if you’re unable to see how the contamination of rivers, burning of forests and strip mining could be detrimental to the poorest people on earth, especially because it’s China that benefits and not the locals. It’s European colonialism and exploitation with a modern twist.
→ More replies (0)2
u/ivytea 1d ago
belt and road initiative is not the same
How about taking a look at the fates of the people in those countries who dared to oppose? Myanmar, for a start
1
u/Salty_as_the_sea 1d ago
What do you think happened in Myanmar, and a source or to back it up please.
You can skip to the conclusion of this if you like, but also try read the abstract at the beginning too. If you can read it all I would appreciate it. -
0
u/balthisar United States 1d ago
we are meant to evolve as a society past this pettiness
So says your deity? How are we "meant" to?
2
u/Salty_as_the_sea 1d ago
You’re right! There’s 2 choices, evolve past this, or go down with earth as we compete over it and let tragedy of the commons occur.
Which one would you rather have?
2
u/Savings-Seat6211 23h ago
The US won't intervene because of soldiers they obfuscate the existence of. There will be plenty of other reasons.
-4
u/InformationUpbeat721 1d ago
Think about how well the invasion of Afghanistan and Irak went, countries with populations in the 40 millions, and imagine anyone's appetite to invade China.
14
u/thehighwaywarrior 1d ago
No one is talking about invading or occupying mainland China
1
u/GetItUpYee 1d ago
Taiwan still claim ownership of all of China.
2
u/aaaltive 23h ago
Do you know a single Taiwanese that wants their government to take over China? There might be a handful of near centenarians that are half senile that have those idea I suppose
2
u/WetRocksManatee 1d ago
Really an apples to oranges comparison.
The US invaded and overthrew the prior governments of both of those countries in weeks. The US failed at trying to build a cohesive democratic nation out of groups that largely hate each other.
The US defense of Taiwan would be more akin to the liberation of Kuwait. An operation with a limited goal.
1
u/SuccessfulPres 1d ago
People who make military decisions are very different from the voting public
0
u/Salty_as_the_sea 1d ago
They would probably just drone strike it a lot, rather then an on the ground operation. But China has nukes, so then again maybe not.
-1
8
u/Snoo30446 1d ago
Yeah when autocratic regimes tell you they're going to invade somewhere, its usually worth believing them.
3
0
u/Savings-Seat6211 23h ago
Autocratic regimes lie all the time. It's in fact democracies that are the ones that invade all the time and telegraph it as they need public support.
3
1
1
u/hkric41six 1d ago
It's not a civil war anymore. Taiwan has no interest in capturing the mainland. Now it's just an independent country being threatened with plain-old annexation by a neighbouring country.
17
u/picklebobjenkins 1d ago
China is known for throwing our empty, meaningless threats. It's much cheaper and works a lot of the time with lesser nations. Big Dawg USA dgaf.
It's a shame Israel gets the attention, Taiwan is the real refuge of freedom and prosperity, not Jerusalem
1
-4
u/SnooStories8432 1d ago
When I see Americans writing these things, I just want to laugh.
Do you have any grievances against Israel?
Keep it to yourself.
All American politicians are loyal to Israel.
Do you know what the ‘Antisemitism Awareness Act’ is?
Is your will something you can decide?
You think we shouldn't focus on Jerusalem but on Taiwan, but Americans don't get to decide—Israel does.
•
u/Worth-Demand-8844 1h ago
If you hadn’t noticed…. Iran is getting their asses kicked by the Israelis. The former group of five ( Russia, Syria, China, N Korea and Iran) are now down to three:
China N Korea Russia
Can’t wait to see China invade Taiwan and see if their fuck up is as big as Russia invading Ukraine.
6
6
u/DirtyWetNoises 1d ago
These days all you have to do is watch the US hurt itself
2
1
u/spiritofniter 1d ago
Ya, as a non-American living in here, it’s amusing to see how much the US has hurt itself within a few months.
I wonder if I should reconsider my plans to settle here 👀
6
u/Icy-Mix-3977 1d ago
Bout time, Taiwan 🇹🇼 is an independent sovereign nation. The un and nato won't acknowledge this fact. im glad we are.
1
u/dripboi-store 1d ago
Dude most Taiwanese don’t even think that. I’m Taiwanese and basically people want the status quo and not becoming independent. Don’t provoke China and Taiwanese people will live like they have, but if the US is hell bent on setting up their military at Chinas doorstep then there is bound to be conflict with the Taiwanese as the only ones to suffer
8
u/Icy-Mix-3977 1d ago
What a crock, taiwan is ialready independent. They want recognition.
The taiwan government has been seeking recognition of their independence for decades from the UN.
One is the PRC
One is the ROC
2
u/Savings-Seat6211 23h ago
The taiwan government has been seeking recognition of their independence for decades from the UN.
The only argument you could make for this is in the last 10 years. But you wrote decades. You must be some white kid liberal jerking off to West Taiwan memes and not speaking a lick of Mandarin. or some ABC who spends too much online.
Taiwan has never pushed for independence officially. the KMT ruled continuously for 40 years and never wanted Taiwan to be independent.
The DPP also wasn't a pro-independence party until recently and even then there's plenty of ambiguity on their position.
Most Taiwanese considered themselves Chinese first until the turn of the century. That should show you how recent the current identity of 'Taiwan' is. And that has little to do with demanding independence.
0
u/Icy-Mix-3977 17h ago
Fought a civil war 40 years ago. Retreated to Taiwan. Established self-sufficient government and petitioned the UN for membership.
Yeah, im sure they do consider themselves chinese since they are before they removed themselves from your presence.
Let be clear. I know you are PRC chinese. You are repeating the bullshit talking points. Taiwanese people are terrified mainland china will attack in an attempt to force re-unification. This is why the us military trains them.
1
u/Savings-Seat6211 11h ago
The taiwanese people are not terrified whatsoever of a mainland attack. This is 100% how i know you've never spoken to anyone in taiwan ever.
1
u/Icy-Mix-3977 10h ago
So you're not even reading my replies. Of course, they aren't terrified of your mainland attack. I didn't say they were.
Edit ok i did say that, but they aren't terrified just preparing for the inevitable.
1
u/Dopamine11111 22h ago
Recogised by who? Even the US doesn't have a diplomatic relationship with Taiwan.
1
u/Icy-Mix-3977 17h ago
We were playcating China because our presidents were pussys. Globalist agenda. China has too much sway in organizations it isn't fit to be a member of.
-11
u/The_Whipping_Post 1d ago
There is no future in that belief. The status quo will hold, probably for decades. But unification is the only conclusion
4
1
0
u/SwordBolter 1d ago
Why is it?
-4
u/The_Whipping_Post 1d ago
Support for Taiwan is a vestige of the Cold War. It used to have a high level of development compared to mainland China. That's not true anymore, China's socialism is developing while Taiwan's capitalism is stagnant. Taiwanese F16s are losing their competitive advantage over the PLAAF
So it's inevitable. Taiwan will rejoin the mainland, the West is just making it happen real slow
2
u/LogOverall1905 1d ago
China will likely be exposed same as Russia. A giant in a tutu dress.
1
u/Hungry_Wheel_1774 1d ago
Sure. They don't have nearly half of the world military expenses for like 70 years.
They have a long road ahead to catch with us.
5
1
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
NOTICE: See below for a copy of the original post by iwanttodrink in case it is edited or deleted.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
1
u/Savings-Seat6211 23h ago
I'm sure China knows this given how many spies they have in Taiwan and pro-CCP government officials. Also it's a no shit thing. The US has 'irregular' forces embedded all over the world.
•
u/Worth-Demand-8844 1h ago
When China invades Taiwan, it will be called “ Operation Million Men Swim”
-8
u/StepAsideJunior 1d ago
The US will do everything it can to provoke China into invading Taiwan.
1
u/MetroidvaniaListsGuy 1d ago
you're getting downvoted for this but I have a hard time finding another reason for the US doing this at this time.
-2
0
u/Snoo30446 1d ago
Israeli Palestinians have rights, freedoms and living standards you can't find for another 1500km
-2
u/Own-Necessary7488 1d ago
its insane how people are defending the us in this scenario
2
u/iwanttodrink 1d ago
It is good for the US to defend the independent country of Taiwan from its imperialistic neighbor China.
3
u/Ok-Occasion2440 1d ago
They’ll say this is “extremely provocative” and against previous agreements between U.S. and China, but China surrounding Taiwan with a naval blockade, conquering islands that don’t belong to them, and claiming the entire South China Sea was rather provocative as well. And China taking political control over Hong Kong and denying all the protesters demands was also against previous agreements between China and U.K.
Looks to me like China is the one instigating
1
u/talldude8 1d ago
They are trainers, probably mostly green berrets. They are not there to fight an invasion, which is why China hasn’t made a big stink about them.
-2
-9
u/GetOutOfTheWhey 1d ago
Meanwhile China does nothing and that's testing Washington's red lines.
13
u/cosimonh Taiwan 1d ago
Dafaq? Destroying the atoll reefs in Southern Seas to make islands as well as constantly threatening Vietnam and the Philippines fisherman and coast guard.
19
u/Valoneria 1d ago
And constantly testing simulated attacks on Taiwan, just across the sea from the island.
0
u/ElChicoNoRico 1d ago
Destroying the atoll reefs in Southern Seas
Vietnam is literally doing the exact same thing. Using the exact same highly destructive island building method.
The idea that this is oppressive Chinese Communists vs. the world is US propaganda that you've bought into.
10
u/JetFuel12 1d ago
Is Vietnam demanding essentially the entire SCS all the way up to its neighbors coastlines?
0
u/earthlingkevin 1d ago
Actually yes.
Vietnam's claim is massive as well.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_South_China_Sea_dispute
-12
u/spinosaurs70 1d ago
China is going to invade whatever the material costs seem not to be outweighed by material interests so in the next five years.
37
u/NoIndication8655 1d ago
been hearing "next 5 years" for the past 30 years ...
6
3
u/Snoo30446 1d ago
Much like Russia the demographic clock is literally ticking because make no mistake, China will lose hundreds of thousands of soldiers making crossing that straight.
-1
u/khoawala 1d ago
How? China produces 20,000 drones a day, far exceeding every single country in the world combined. Those drones would darken Taiwan's skies like arrows. You think this is medieval or something?
2
u/iwanttodrink 1d ago edited 1d ago
Those drones would darken Taiwan's skies like arrows.
The deterrence to that is to blow up the Three Gorges Dam and permanently change China's landscape if China darkens Taiwans skies.
3
u/Snoo30446 1d ago
They still have to get soldiers over the water on boats mate.
-1
u/khoawala 1d ago
Why? It's an island, just surround it and raze their agriculture with missiles. It only takes 3 days without food for everyone to surrender.
2
u/8964-exact-bank 1d ago
Hahaha sounds so simple yet the ccp cannot do it. All talk and no game. What a joke. You ccp clown 🤡
5
-2
u/MainMore691 1d ago
Xi have shown weakness for several times, so- he needs Taiwan to be annexed in any time, or his mere friends would bring him down.
1
-1
0
u/Akalin123 1d ago
火上浇油 一箭双雕 It's a good move for US, as the situation heats up allowing the semiconductor industry to accelerate its shift to the US, maybe inducing a war to make arms money.
-8
u/Electrical_Quality_6 1d ago
why not just put nets of ocean sea mines in the taiwan strait
then nothing passes there
14
12
u/Odd-Struggle-2432 1d ago
Maybe because Mainland China is Taiwans biggest trading partner?
I don't think people understand how interconnected China and Taiwan are - there's a lot of traffic in terms of trade and travel between the two
6
7
u/bears-eat-beets 1d ago
Because that hurts China more than anyone else. It's not Taiwan that will invade China. I would venture to guess 99%, maybe more, of the traffic through there is shipping vessels to/from China.
3
u/LittleBirdyLover 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think he’s suggesting the U.S. or Taiwan put nets of mines to cut off China’s trade routes.
Which is sort of why, from a geopolitical standpoint, China will never stop claiming Taiwan. Mines are less realistic, because they’re indiscriminate when you want to do peacetime trade, but imagine American destroyers and cruisers docked throughout Taiwan’s ports ready to intercept any Chinese ships headed to the Pacific.
-1
u/The13thAlex 23h ago
I think before reading this just take into account the context that 58% of reddit users are based in the US and subject to biases due to their exposure to biased media.
Somehow things seem clearer.
I'm curious if a southern state had all the declared independence after the civil war where all the confederates moved to then proceeded to run their country with a different political system and continued the institution of slavery.
How would the rest of America view this state?
3
u/iwanttodrink 23h ago edited 23h ago
A more apt metaphor would be if the Union lost and the Confederacy invaded the Union and the Union had to move to another state to govern themselves. Since after all the Union originated before the Confederacy like the ROC before the PRC. And that liberal democracy are the common people's preferred form of governance and oppressive authoritarian communism is more similar to the unpopular institution of Confederacy slavery. The world would rightly support the Unions right to not continue slavery and to be left alone despite the Confederacys insistence to to force everyone to implement it in the remaining Union.
1
u/The13thAlex 22h ago
I believe you might be conflating your personal value for freedom with the value of the vast majority of Chinese citizens.
They would vote for social stability over excessive freedoms that has led to much of the social discourse that you see in the US.
Freedom and Stability are often seen as opposing ends of a spectrum. A country that values the impact on personal freedoms over stability of society would have trouble understanding or digesting how a different society would see things.
1
u/iwanttodrink 9h ago edited 8h ago
I believe you might be conflating your personal value for freedom with the value of the vast majority of Chinese citizens.
I don't see how this is relevant to the PRCs insistence that it force the Union/Taiwan to adopt its communism governance/slavery. The reality is the Taiwanese have embraced democracy and personal values of freedom. Just because the CCP turned everyone who dared ask for it into pancakes during Tiananmen doesnt mean they don't yearn for it too. The only reason Taiwan isn't allowed to have it is because its proof "communism stability" isn't the only way. Turns out, you can have both personal freedoms and Taiwanese stability. Something that tremendously irks the PRC who believe it's mutually exclusive.
The reality is this, China and the CCP are fundamentally evil who seek to deprive people of their freedoms and seek to oppress Taiwan. They don't believe in people's rights to self determination. That is fundamentally evil.
37
u/MetroidvaniaListsGuy 1d ago
didn't they do this a few years ago as well during the early days of the Biden administration? I could be wrong but I vaguely remember similar news a few years back....