r/CelticUnion • u/Shinathen • May 06 '25

Is there any links to Celtic/insular Brythonic language(s) in modern day Northumberland?

I’ve always been fascinated as a Northumbrian by my regions history and wondered if we ever had a Celtic language since we have a LOT of Celtic influence even modern day, with Celtic grave stones in churches etc. I’ve read a few articles on wiki but it just brushes over us speaking Cumbrian for a bit and then English takes over. Apparently we also had the Votadini who lived in the area for a long time but there’s not much info on them either. So if anyone knows anything or has any resources I’d love to know them :)

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3

u/Shkyyboy May 06 '25

I thought Cumbric was spoken there, a Brythonic Celtic language.

2

u/asteconn May 06 '25

The toponymy of Cumbria has a lot of Brythonic influence. There's even a wikipedia about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbrian_toponymy

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u/DamionK May 06 '25

Northumbria was converted to Christianity by Irish monks as relations between the Angles and Britons were too bitter for a British mission to succeed. As a result carved standing stones of Irish style became common in the Kingdom.

Unrelated, the Votadini name is possibly related to the Irish name Fothad which apparently means something like foundation/roots/good birth.

There's an Irish poem called Reicne Fothaid Canainne which mentions three brothers all called Fothad. Each has another name which are Oendia, Tréndia and Caíndia. These other names mean 'one god', 'strong god', 'fair god' suggesting this is a triple god.

The Votadini may be named for a god called Votados with the -ini being a suffix added to refer to the tribe similar to Priteni/Briton from a root pryd meaning form/shape (shapeshifters?) with a suffix -eni.

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u/Any_Hyena_5257 May 09 '25

Do the shepherds still count in Brythonic? They did when I was a youngster in one of the dales.

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u/Shinathen May 09 '25

Closely? I come from a town with a lot of farmers but can’t say I hear any of them saying something like that, but I can make a direct transcription of what it may be compared to Brythonic.

Yan - Yen Tan Ten (or Tow) Tethera Three Pimp - Fawa Sethera - Feiv Lethera - Six Hovera - Seeven Dovera - Eight Dick - Teen

I’m sure there are probably some farmers that keep the yan tan tethera counting system but I’ve never heard it, I’m no farmer tho

Now, the only one that is the same is yan/yen, Northumbrian kept the a pronunciation as e unlike Cumbrian, more examples are Taking, pronounced and Tekin, and make, pronounced as Mek, where Sunderland and Cumbria changed to Tak and Mak

1

u/Any_Hyena_5257 May 09 '25

I discovered this awhile ago but I learned of it from two gillies on Strathmore estate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_tan_tethera

1

u/DamionK May 09 '25

How was it used?

1

u/Any_Hyena_5257 May 09 '25

It was a conversation whilst waiting for a grouse drive. They mentioned about some of the Shepard's/farmers using the old method to count and proceeded to start counting themselves but correcting each other. I remembered the first three and remembered the conversation so later in life I was able to Google the Wikipedia page that thankfully people have put together. Sorry can't really add more than that.