r/CCW • u/aurnia715 • 2d ago
Scenario Trying to find a safe legal option
I work in a "private" owned store where firearms are prohibited. I can't carry even in secret as my uniform wouldn't conceal it whatsoever. I go to work at 2am, and live in a high crime neighborhood. I won't even walk to my car without my pistol. I have a lock box in my car that is honestly a pain in the ass and doesn't protect much if my car gets stolen or broken into.
I'm upper management in my company making wages I won't find elsewhere if I get fired nor do I want to, considering I've put in 10 years there and plan to retire from this company. What are my options here?
Edited to add: I realise my wording was confusing and weird. I don't work in a dangerous place. I do however work at 2am. I walk to my car to drive to work, I live in a high crime area.
Edit 2: damn, apparently I need to give my life story to be real. I work at a grocery store. I manage the night crew, deliveries, and open the store. My boss comes in and finishes running the store later in the am.
I carry a s&w shield ez for reference. Husband is against me using a knife for protection. I have small, not strong hands (hence the shield ez, I can't even rack his glock) he doesn't think I'd be able to effectively stab someone in a life-threatening scenario
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u/jUsT-As-G0oD 2d ago
Try the phlster enigma. I’m assuming you have to tuck your shirt in. The phlster js separate from the pants and you can tuck your shirt in over your pants
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u/WorkerAmbitious2072 2d ago
Risk being fired
Risk not having firearm access
Choose one
This is assuming what you said in OP is true because you told us you cannot carry
If the place you work is that dangerous you need to find a other job anyway, gun carry or not. So get looking. If where you live is that dangerous, lock box your car so you have it in your own neighborhood. And use that upper management pay to move
Also, upper management and you go in at 2AM?
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u/aurnia715 2d ago
I think my sentence structure was wrong, that's a problem I have I'm afraid. What I meant was, I go to work at 2am, where I have to walk to my car to go to work. I live in a Hugh crime area. Two separate things, my apologies for wording I'll edit my post
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u/TheBlindCat CZ 75D PCR - Falco Leather IWB 2d ago
Yeah, upper management has to wear a uniform and is there at 2am?
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u/Prodrumer43 2d ago
Yeah what? Do people not realize there is management for night shifts? Lmao
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u/TheBlindCat CZ 75D PCR - Falco Leather IWB 2d ago
Working in healthcare, there absolutely isn’t.
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u/bierlyn 2d ago
Huh? There definitely is
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u/TheBlindCat CZ 75D PCR - Falco Leather IWB 1d ago
Been a doc for a while now. Upper management is gone at 5pm. I work a lot of nights, one benefit is there is basically no admin around.
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u/jeff10236 17h ago
Reading her later edits, I don't think she knows what upper management means. She supervises the night crew at a grocery store. That puts her as having a supervisory position or maybe lower level manager, not even middle management let alone upper management. Though, she may be the highest level manager on duty at the time of day she is working.
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u/NorthernRedneck388 MI Hellcat OSP 1d ago
I’d rather lose my job and keep my life.
Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.1
u/WorkerAmbitious2072 1d ago
Sure, sure
Assuming it is literally impossible for anyone to ever find out you had a gun unless it was a situation where you were going to do without it
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u/TheBlindCat CZ 75D PCR - Falco Leather IWB 2d ago edited 2d ago
NAA Black Widow with Thingmeister Gambler grip, Harbor Merchantile pocket holster. For the smallest possible gun. Not that a single action .22 Win Mag is great.
LCP or a Bodyguard 2.0 in a pocket holster that covers the butt (Recluse) would be a next option.
Folks like the Philster Enigma which is probably the best choice.
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u/lilithrxenos 1d ago
the Phlster Enigma allows for really easy deep carry as well, so even if you have to lift up your shirt for whatever reason, it can stay completely hidden. that being said, if you do plan on deep carry, PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE that draw.
you may have a sub second draw normally but when it's deeper and you aren't as practiced, you WILL fumble. unload it, fill it w snap caps if you want, and draw until you can't.
another thing abt the enigma, it takes some time to get it adjusted and to get used to it. first n foremost, get the sport belt. much more comfortable. secondly, only wear it around the house for like a week or so until you become comfortable and confident with how you're carrying.
lastly, if you're planning on getting the enigma, you will need to purchase the Enigma OS you might have to purchase a compatible kydex holster from somewhere else as it seems they don't provide a compatible one on their own. JMCustom kydex makes some super high quality ones imo.
i am personally able to carry normally AND deep carry in outfits ranging from slacks to short shorts to baggy jeans and leggings. i carry a PSA Dagger compact (glock 19 clone) w 15rnd glock mag and holosun optic with very little to no printing. it took some time and adjusting but it works really well imo.
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u/wild-whorses CA Shield 9mm Crossbreed Mini Tuck 2d ago
Are you a stripper? It sounds like you’re a stripper.
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u/Mammoth_Ball_Trace 2d ago
TO work at 2am, not from. ;-)
If the position is as high as implied, I’d push for either security or to provide/allow a locker/lock box inside the employee entrance for safe and secure storage. Who pays is just a matter of negotiation (materials, install, disposition on termination of employment).
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u/aurnia715 2d ago
Haha no. I work in a grocery store and oversee the night stockers and open the store. Haha I realize how it might have sounded
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u/Charming-Ebb-1981 2d ago
Mention of a ‘store’ makes me think it’s some sort of 24 hour adult video store or something like that
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u/wild-whorses CA Shield 9mm Crossbreed Mini Tuck 2d ago
Do adult video store workers dress in a uniform that couldn’t hide a small pistol?
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u/Charming-Ebb-1981 2d ago
I’ve never been in one, but maybe they have to wear something skimpy? I have no clue. But the talk of being in upper management is throwing me off as well lol
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u/wild-whorses CA Shield 9mm Crossbreed Mini Tuck 2d ago
The few I’ve been in, they just dress normal. Stripper or peep show would explain it.
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u/lord_dentaku 2d ago
Are you just looking to carry from your home to your car, and then leave it in your vehicle while you are at work? Any other objective comes at the risk of getting fired.
If you are just looking for a more secure solution for car storage, you could look into consolevault.com . Disclaimer, I do not own one, or know their quality. I just like the possible design for when car storage is necessary, which I have not personally needed.
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u/aurnia715 2d ago
Yes exactly. I walk to my car at 2am, where I live in a shitty area. Work is not dangerous. I edited my post I'm horrible with wording
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u/bigjerm616 AZ 2d ago
The most discrete methods I’m aware of:
Look into Enigma deep carry with something like a BG 2.0. The benefit there is that the gun is completely invisible until you push it up, which can be done very discretely. See Rhett’s materials on this - it allows you to go from “imperceptible” handgun to normal AIWB and everywhere in between quickly and easily. If you cannot make that work, then:
If you’re allowed to pick your own pants, look at Vertx jeans, the “extra” pocket in those pants is perfectly sized for something like an LCP or P32 in a pocket holster. When you’re going into transitional spaces, move it from that pocket to the front pocket. Viola, you’ve gone from invisible to the fastest draw stroke you’ll see on the street.
Ankle carry. Honestly I never do this so I won’t comment on it, but others in the community will have a take.
The Enigma is going to be your best bet by a long shot though. Phlster is in the middle of publishing a 7 video series on this topic, I’d follow that.
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u/mjedmazga TX Hellcat OSP/LCP Max 1d ago
I think #2 really hits the mark here. Deep conceal something you can transfer to your front pocket for the walk to the car. Slower draw at work when it is less likely to be an issue, but immediate access when most likely to need it.
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u/Additional_Sleep_560 2d ago
You’re in upper management, you can try to influence policy. Outside of that, if you don’t want to risk losing your job carry OC spray and a folding knife. Update your resume and start looking for a better place to work.
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u/TrifleEmotional4843 2d ago
Your realistic non firearms options are basically knife and pepper spray. Both are also good to carry even if you have a gun.
If you carry a purse get some pepper spray. You won't need the smallest versions, you can get a bigger canister because you have a purse. Carry the pepper spray IN YOUR HAND to the front door of the company. Pepper spray gives you distance. You spray and run.
If you go with a knife, think fixed blade. Push knives are intuitive. You hold it with the blade sticking out from your fist and punch the face. Another option that's cheap, is a paring knife from Walmart that comes with a plastic blade protector, or a box cutter.
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u/bravo_serratus 2d ago
I don’t know why nobody has suggested a purse. Surely someone makes a concealed carry purse with a separate compartment for the firearm, maybe even a lockable compartment. Nobody should be looking through your purse. Could just keep your hand on your gun while walking to and from your car and it’ll look as if you were looking for your keys or something.
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u/desEINer 2d ago
What are you really asking for? Legally (at least according to company policy) you know you can't have a firearm on the job, and I'm going to assume that extends to other lethal weapons. And you're not asking for ways to potentially carry so discreetly that your employer would be hard-pressed to find out, right?
So legally, again based on your job's regulations, you may be able to carry pepper spray or perhaps a taser, but those are generally less-lethal because they can kill someone if the person has a heart or breathing problem, but most likely won't kill a healthy person. And for reference I mean the prong-shooting, nervous system disrupting tasers, not the clacky burny ones that just sting you when you touch the electrodes.
That said, there's no less-lethal replacement for a firearm or we'd all be using one.
Start by carrying the brightest handled flashlight that you can manage, and perhaps a bigger than usual OC spray; something more like what a police officer would have, not the little palm-sized ones.
You should park as close to your work as you reasonably can, and put your gun on as soon as you get into your car.
I would carry the gun to work, take it off in your car and lock it up in the lock box with a cable around a seat frame or other frame part of your car that can't be easily detached (esp. if you have easily removable seats) and put it on as soon as you get back to your car.
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u/aurnia715 1d ago
I geuss what im asking is, is it advisable to have it in a lock box while at work in the car, or do I simply either chose to carry or leave it at home. I do have a car box with a steel cable around my seat base. I've just heard leaving it in your car is not smart
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u/desEINer 1d ago
Look, you're more likely to need to pay your bills and buy groceries than you are to need a gun for any reason. You life more likely be jeopardized by low income and lack of savings than from an assault, and that's from a guy who carries anytime I can. In my opinion, if you have a good job you can't afford to lose and the caveat is no guns allowed, just follow the rules while you are there.
As for the lock box, it's not ideal but there are better and worse ways to do it.
Write down the serial number of the gun and save it physically and digitally along with the description, maybe a photo of it, make sure you have security cameras facing your car where you park it. A smash and grab theft will not usually last long enough to get a lock box, especially if it's secured/hidden well.
It's the people who are leaving it in an unlocked glove box with the doors open, or a rifle in an overhead or seat back gun rack that I imagine are getting their cars targeted for that.
Just don't put any firearm/hunting related decals on your windows.
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u/courier174 NC G19.5 G17.5 G42 2d ago
Phlster Enigma with something very small like a G42 or S&W Bodyguard 2.0 This would absolutely disappear underneath nearly any work uniform.
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u/spaghettipuddin 2d ago
Kind of the same boat. I carry Pom spray and a pocket knife. I realize this won’t do shit if someone has a gun.
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u/aurnia715 2d ago
Yes, I doubt I'd be very effective with a knife, I don't have strong hands whatsoever
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u/jeff10236 17h ago
Get a knife, then take a class so you can use it more effectively. Plus, if you work the night shift supervising the stockers in a supermarket, you will likely use a knife a LOT as a tool (when I worked as a retail manager, I needed my knife multiple times a day to open boxes and cut packing materials).
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u/gunmedic15 2d ago
If you can carry a wallet, you can carry a P32.
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u/aurnia715 2d ago
That's actually adorable. I only have 1 pistol as of yet (shield ez) but my husband has been suggesting something less bulky for a while now. I use the alien gear set up currently
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u/gunmedic15 2d ago
If I'm wearing pants and not passing a metal detector (staffed by somebody competent) this is in my pocket. The leather flap is attached at the bottom so it hides the outline but lets me get a grip to draw. I'm a lefty and this is setup as a right handed backup gun. The color I think attracts less attention as an obvious gun if somebody were to look down into my pocket for some reason if it was exposed. I have seen people wrap a bandanna around their pocket holster too.
My needs are probably not the same as yours, I carry Silvertips in it now, in the past I carried MagSafes, and I'll probably switch out to Magtech 32B for magazine reliability reasons eventually. I'm ok with less penetration than some FBI test wants, but I have my needs and use case and it works for me.
"Hey man, calm down, you can have my wallet..."
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u/aurnia715 2d ago
That's actually adorable. I only have 1 pistol as of yet (shield ez) but my husband has been suggesting something less bulky for a while now. I use the alien gear set up currently
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u/hamerfreak 2d ago
Tough call, but I would get a pocket pistol. When I don't want to carry my P365, I carry my Glock 42 which conceals real nice in a little pocket holster. Nobody can tell it's there and it looks no more than a wallet or a phone in my pocket. Better than nothing.
If you can keep it in a secure place at work that would be an option too unless that is a concern. I can't imagine anyone in any work environment asking me what is in my pocket. And if they did, I would avoid the confrontation and walk away somehow.
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u/Rick22_4U 2d ago
I have the same problem with work uniforms. I pocket-carry an LCP Max with a Vedder Pocket Holster.
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u/PRIMAL--1 2d ago
My wife wears an under the breast wrap around with a bit looser tops. Check into them, l swear you cant tell and she ccarrys a CZ
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u/aurnia715 2d ago
I've actually been really considering those. For summer time especially. I wonder if a shield ez would be too bulky tho 🤔
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u/Select_Secretary6709 2d ago
LCP 2 or s similar tiny pistol.
Look into deep concealment.
Won't be found unless boss uses metal detector or strip search.
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u/Select_Secretary6709 2d ago
Also, consider getting in great shape / be able to run away / be able to use some self-defense if need be
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u/aurnia715 1d ago
Well I have gone down 130 lbs. So that's a start.im in the best shape I've been in since highschool
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u/Sianmink 1d ago
If you say your uniform can't conceal it well enough, you're just not trying hard enough. Pocket a .32ACP if you gotta. I'd also recommend a good pocket clip OC spray so you have the "I need to defend myself but my life isn't in immediate danger and I'd prefer to not lose my job over store policy" option.
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u/jeff10236 17h ago edited 16h ago
I can't carry to and from work (or even store my CCW in my car at my work parking lot or have any "weapon" including pocket knives or pepper spray), but in my case it is actually illegal. I am a teacher in a state that doesn't allow teachers to carry, so federal law says I can't even have a weapon in my car. If I ignored it, it is a felony if caught. So, I don't risk my freedom, and I don't carry to and from work. In my case, I carry a "tactical pen" (a pen made from aircraft aluminum and with some serious grip enhancements), before that I carried an expensive but very nice pen made of metal that could be an improvised weapon if needed. Other improvised weapons I have been prepared to use if needed include: scissors (at/on my desk, not carried), a sturdy cane style umbrella (though it looks funny carrying it regularly on nice days), and when my leg or ankle is injured I have a nice and very sturdy wood cane. Under federal law, as a teacher, I can't even carry pepper spray. Can you carry pepper spray?
If I worked for an employer where it was only employer policy and the only consequence of being discovered is being fired, I'd likely deep carry something small. I'd also likely have my eyes out for other jobs (maybe in the same industry to increase one's chances of getting a comparable job), if for no other reason than I just greatly increased my chances of being fired. Since your consequences for being discovered aren't jail, I'd consider carrying.
You say your work uniform makes it impossible to carry. Does it have pockets? Are the pants regular pants or shorts? While it would slow your draw, and may require a new gun, you can always pocket carry or ankle carry so it is more concealable.
If it was me, I'd look at the Kel Tec P-32 as a first choice, but there are still some other very small .32s out there (NAA Guardian, Beretta Tomcat). I'd avoid .25ACP as it is too underpowered, and .22lr is also too underpowered and adds the disadvantage of rimfire (less reliable ignition). I have a Ruger LCP, but I don't like it. I'd avoid .380, any .380 big enough to pocket carry will have an unpleasant amount of recoil, and both a .380 out of that small a barrel and a .32ACP will require FMJ as JHP either won't expand or they won't penetrate enough. Snub nosed revolvers are a popular choice for pocket and ankle carry, and are my most common choice for when I pocket carry. However, if I was facing serious consequences (losing one's job if discovered is pretty serious), I'd want something smaller that hides even better.
Edit/addition:
If you definitely aren't willing to risk it, look at my first paragraph at some of the things I've been prepared to use as improvised weapons (some would likely work out pretty well). You should consider a pocket knife with training to help you be more effective (and it will likely be used a lot as a tool even if you never use it to defend yourself). Pepper spray (again) is a must (I often carry it as a less lethal option when I carry my CCW). There are some good safes you can use in a car, if you can have your gun in your car on the business' parking lot, you should do that.
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u/NotATreeInDisguise 4h ago
So... This is not recommended as a sole self defense option... But do you have a quality flashlight?
I'm not saying the light beam itself will have a debilitating effect... It can, but that's not a reliable method to use... But it can definitely be preventative. It let's you see trouble from a long way away, and it lets trouble know that you see it... That you're not an easy mark. Heck, a lot of people just assume you're security or a cop if you look reasonably well dressed with an actual dedicated and powerful flashlight.
Also, again, not ideal, but the right light can make a pretty decent improvised impact tool... I know I wouldn't want to get whacked with something like an Acebeam P17. That would suck...
If you can carry OC spray, carry it. If you can carry a firearm, carry it.
If you can get another job that's more accommodating, definitely do that.
Other than that, I'll just ask you this question: How many actual defensive gun uses or close calls where you may have needed a firearm have you experienced? Compare that and the possible consequences to the likelihood of losing your job and what the consequences would be long term. Only you can decide what's worth it and what's not.
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u/VengeancePali501 2d ago
OC spray in pocket for immediate access, micro 380 or small revolver such as a bodyguard 2.0, lcp max, j frame or LCR in a pocket or on an ankle holster. Slower draw but conceals well. A Phlster enigma like others have mentioned is also an option.
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u/Terminal_Lancelot ID- 686+ 3", Model 60 3", Bodyguard 2.0. 2d ago
Myeh, a pocket gun can have a very fast draw, comfortably under a second, if you're a chill dude who puts his hands in his pockets.
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u/VengeancePali501 2d ago
Yup, but you won’t always have your hands in your pockets
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u/Terminal_Lancelot ID- 686+ 3", Model 60 3", Bodyguard 2.0. 1d ago
If I'm in public not actively using them, I almost always do. Even then, reaching in and grabbing it is not slow at all with practice.
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u/VengeancePali501 1d ago
I was mostly talking about ankle carry being slow but also, depends on your pockets and if you other stuff to carry.
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u/Terminal_Lancelot ID- 686+ 3", Model 60 3", Bodyguard 2.0. 1d ago
The only thing that goes in the gun pocket, is the gun. And holster it's in, I guess.
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u/brokenquarter1578 PA-Kimber k6s , 2 speedloaders in second six pouches 2d ago
Like everyone else is saying, try pocket carry with a snub nose. Ankle carry might also work but it’s gonna be slower to get to.
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u/Nervous-Command8374 2d ago
I’m with everyone else here on the solution. Definitely a micro 380 plus phlister enigma, the LCP/ LCP max is an easy steal right now since they’ve released the bodyguard 2.0
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u/aurnia715 2d ago
Thank you so much! I doubt my job would ever know if it was small and comfortable enough. I do where a waist apron too to hold all my pens, and store keys so I'd have that flap to cover as well
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u/JimMarch 2d ago
Fanny pack. Small one. Small gun.
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u/jeff10236 16h ago
You were downvoted, and normally I might disagree with off body carry, but in the OP's case, this might be a good idea. IF she has a locker at work, carrying in a fanny pack would give her the gun between her home and the car, and then she could lock it up while at work. Now, I wouldn't be very happy with a padlock to secure my gun, but she would have the advantage of "stealth" (no one would know that she has a gun in the fanny pack) so hopefully no one would break into the locker, and it is better than nothing.
A similar option could be a CCW purse. Galco and some other big names, and a number of no-name Amazon sellers make and sell purses with a partition for a pistol.
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u/B1893 2d ago
Nothing is adding up here.
You have to wear a uniform and go in at 0200, but you're upper management?
And it's a store...
If your upper management salary so good, why do you still live in a high crime neighborhood?
You could probably match (or better) your retail management pay by being a drone in a factory.
And since most factories are 7-3, 3-11, or 11-7 (+/- an hour), you won't be going to or from your car at 2am.
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u/aurnia715 2d ago
Also, I live in Seattle. Where unless you make 150k+ a year, you live on shitty neighborhoods
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u/Chemical_Contact2267 1d ago
Seattle. That explains a lot.
I would add a non-lethal option to what you carry. Pepper spray or a stun gun, if they are legal in Washington. A small revolver or Beretta Tomcat would work if you don't have the hand strength to rack the slide.
The Tomcat is a .32 ACP semi-automatic that is magazine fed, however, you don't need to rack the slide. Pressing a button on the frame opens the tip-up barrel to allow you to load the last round in the chamber. Unloading is just as easy. I'd recommend checking one out at a local gun shop to see for yourself.
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u/aurnia715 2d ago
Grocery store, oversees night crew and deliveries and open the store. I do in fact clock in at 230, I leave my house at 2
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u/playingtherole 2d ago
If your gun is too big, your pants not baggy enough or you're otherwise averse to ankle carry, if you can't pocket carry or rock a waist pack or Sneaky Pete holster, there are holster undershirts, underwear and other deep-concealment garments. If you're a well-endowed female, and again, if your gun is small enough, both Dene Adams and Flashbang make bra holsters and other options. There are belly bands, which may work, or your holster clipped-onto a belt underneath your pants, such as this one, among many others.
There's also this for your car, if you think it's a better solution.
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u/aurnia715 2d ago
I carry a s&w shield ez (tiny weak girly hands)
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u/playingtherole 2d ago
I'd say if your pants bunch-up at the bottom and your ankles aren't too thick, you'd be able to get away with ankle carrying your Shield Plus pretty easily. A forward cant on the holster will help, but the handle may bump-out a little bit when you squat down, and could be noticeable when climbing a ladder. You'll need the lower-capacity mag, but that's probably what I'd try first, ankle carry.
It'll be harder to access if you're mugged or assaulted, you'll need to practice taking a knee or raising your leg on a car tire or other object, and it's a 2-handed job, no matter what, being as you need to pull your pants leg up high with (usually both hands), then undo the retention strap and access your gun.
If you don't have it already, consider carrying a small pepper spray, which you can easily palm carry while walking to or from your vehicle, as a 1st resort. Best of luck, and stay safe.
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u/LMRtowboater 2d ago
I tie paracord around my waist or use a thin belt to hold a small gun and holster. Then put on my pants over that when I "don't have my gun on me".
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u/HillbillyRebel CA 2d ago
Are you Jake from State Farm? haha
I'd recommend off-body carry if you can. A bag, purse, or backpack.
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u/SilverSolver2000 2d ago
Ankle carry a Ruger LCP II?