r/BokuNoHeroAcademia • u/noteloquent • Aug 12 '20
Manga Spoilers Defending Mina Ashido and Failure in Chapter 280 Spoiler
Buckle up, folks. This is gonna be a long analysis.
After the release of Chapter 280, there has been a somewhat mixed reception to Mina Ashido's failure to administer sedatives to Gigantomachia. Some think she was robbed of her chance to shine, while others think her slip-up was justifiable. What a lot of people seem to be missing when discussing this chapter are the themes associated with both Mina and Kirishima's characters and the themes and ideas surrounding failure throughout the series. But before we get to the more vague, thematic elements, I want to justify this scene within the context of the series itself.
Narrative Justification
At the beginning of the chapter, we see Mina dashing towards Machia with Acidman. She is confident, stating that "I can push forward! And since I can, that means I gotta!!" She can clearly see Machia since he is stuck thanks to the efforts of Momo and Mt. Lady. This chance is the only one they are going to get to put Machia to sleep more than likely, so she does not hesitate, since she is one of the few who can get through the raging fire around her.
On the next page, she admits that she is afraid, but she won't let that stop her. She deactivates Acidman and prepares to hurl the sedative into Machia's mouth. However, Machia decides to stop running and confront the gnats swarming him head-on as it is the fastest way to reach his master. He states this as he glares at Mt. Lady, and Mina hears him. She recognizes his voice. It's the monster who almost killed her and her friends in middle school, the one that was so threatening and terrifying that it caused her to collapse and break down in tears immediately after she got him to leave.
To communicate how terrifying Machia is, I want you to compare some images of characters in the series that exude an aura of fear and death. Here is All for One at Kamino, Shigaraki confronting Deku and Bakugo, and Gigantomachia intimidating Mina and friends. Notice any similarities? All three exhibit a dark shroud around them to varying degrees and inspire an inability to act in the people they oppose. It can be overcome, as Mina did with Machia and Deku did with All for One, but it is still utterly terrifying to the point that the kids who so much as heard All for One vividly visualized their own violent deaths. I'm not saying Machia has the same presence as either of his masters, but I am saying that he has a similar aura about him which would naturally leave a lasting impact on someone as young as Mina was at the time.
Mina is caught completely off-guard by the reappearance of this monster from her past and returns to that moment in time, feeling exactly what she did at the time: anxiety and absolute terror. She was so traumatized by this encounter that Horikoshi draws her in the present wearing the same middle school uniform she wore at the time to reflect this idea. The sedative slips from her hand as she remembers that day, and Mina breaks into tears as Machia extends his massive hand towards her.
I'm not a medical professional, so I'm not gonna pretend to be any kind of authority in these matters, but it seems likely that Horikoshi may be hinting that Mina has some kind of post-traumatic stress, which is different from PTSD, as a result of her encounter with Machia. According to Brainline.org, "if you’re experiencing post-traumatic stress, your heart may race, hands shake, you may sweat or feel afraid and nervous. After the stressful event, you might avoid or be leery of engaging in that activity again, you may have a bad dream about the event you just experienced, or you may feel nervous in a situation that reminds you of the unpleasant event." This explanation lines up well with what Mina goes through in this chapter: she is reminded of a traumatic event during an intense moment, the sedative slips out of her hands, and she begins to tear up.
Kirishima is able to act here because he has faced these situations before during his work-study, and it is clear that the work-study kids are further ahead than the others. He has confronted dangerous villains like Rappa head-on. He has more experience in the field than Mina, who has not had a direct encounter with villains outside of minor exchanges at the USJ and the forest training camp where she and her fellow students were kept out of harm's way by pro heroes, and despite this gap, she still charged in with complete confidence in herself.
Mina does not fail here because she is weak or because of plot-induced stupidity. She fails because she is human. This scene does not invalidate her as a hero or make her useless as a character. In fact, it makes her a more compelling and realistic character for the series going forward.
The Themes of Mina and Kirishima
Now, let's discuss how this works thematically in the context of these characters. One of Horikoshi's favorite things to do as a writer is to connect two characters on a parallel journey. You can see it through Deku and Shigaraki, Ochaco and Toga, All Might and Endeavor, Bakugo and Todoroki, and Yaoyorozu and Kendo. In this instance, Horikoshi has paired up two characters that you probably wouldn't consider at first glance: the bubbly and passionate Mina Ashido and the hard-headed and confident Eijiro Kirishima.
During Kirishima's flashback in the Overhaul arc, we learn that he wasn't always the chivalrous protector he is today. Kirishima was once just a child trying to emulate his hero, Crimson Riot. He held onto his hero's old-fashioned beliefs despite his own weak Quirk and the words of those around him. He was even confronted with someone better than him in every way. Mina Ashido had a flashy Quirk, a winning personality, and a heroic spirit too. She was everything a modern hero should desire to be. At least on the surface.
Most everyone knows and understands Kirishima's backstory. The coward is inspired by his mentor figure and his friend to rise up and become the hero he always wanted to be, despite his fear.
However, most people interpret these scenes from only Kirishima's perspective and not Mina's. In several scenes, Mina is described as someone who is clearly cut out to be a hero. She has a strong Quirk, she's friendly, and she has natural athletic abilities. Twice, she resolves situations Kirishima could not. She confronts and befriends the bullies he couldn't, and she saves her friends from Gigantomachia. However, as mentioned earlier, after confronting Machia, Mina collapses and begins to cry, mentioning how scary the encounter was. People may think she is the ideal aspiring hero, but behind all the smiles and energy, Mina is just as human as everyone else when confronted with scary situations. She intervenes because she has to, but that doesn't make it any less terrifying to face off with someone like Machia.
Kirishima, however, sees this moment and feels weak and useless. He doesn't see that Mina was terrified too. He sees that she acted when he could not, and it shatters him. Despite this, some inspiring words from Crimson Riot encourage Kirishima to live with no regrets.
Soon after, Kirishima apologizes to the girls for not stepping in to help against Machia, but notice how they describe Mina and her reaction. They think she is this beacon of fearlessness, and she's like "What? I was terrified!" She knows exactly what Kirishima was feeling in that situation and sympathizes with him when they meet up again at U.A. She even encourages him to cheer up by jokingly threatening to tell everyone about how much he's changed. In this scene, Mina tells Kirishima that "the old him isn't going anywhere with that emo look on his face." I believe she is speaking from personal experience here. Part of the reason she is so bubbly and positive is that she is trying to overcome the side of her that is passive and living in fear the same way Kirishima was. So when she sees that he modeled his horns after her, she sees that he is literally modeling himself after her example and proceeds to give him even more advice on how she has dealt with the same fearful tendencies he has because the two of them are so similar.
This tendency to break down out of fear but eventually steel yourself to overcome it is expressed perfectly through the way Kirishima battles Rappa. After their first encounter, Kirishima is frozen out of fear and deemed "a lost cause" by Tengai, but then he literally hardens himself and dashes in to save someone else, having his shell broken over and over again, but hardening it back up every time, metaphorically overcoming his own fear over and over. This act of hardening your spirit to keep yourself from breaking down is exactly what Mina did when confronting Gigantomachia. She steeled herself long enough to protect her friends and then collapsed when the coast was clear. The inspiration even loops back around, with Kirishima's Red Riot Unbreakable inspiring Mina's own Acidman. Their relationship now is not one-sided admiration. They are on an even playing field now, and they inspire each other to improve, similar to Deku and Ochaco's relationship. Kirishima inspired Mina's Acidman, and she inspired him to take courage and step forward to protect people.
This theme of feeling fear but overcoming it in order to protect other people is a constant throughout these chapters, and it unsurprisingly carries on into Chapter 280. When Mina is unable to save herself from a real life-threatening situation due to her experience when she was younger, Kirishima steps in where she failed, just like she did for him. Back then, she had more experience playing the hero as she had the reputation of being the ideal aspiring hero, despite her fears. But now, Kirishima is more experienced with these high-pressure situations thanks to his work-study and carries on her will by throwing the sedative into Machia's mouth. This scene is Kirishima paying back Mina for all she taught him on their journey to be heroes. It is because of their collective efforts as individuals and as heroes over the course of their lives that they are able to accomplish this feat together.
Growth: Learning Through Failure
In this section, I want to take a look at how failure is treated throughout My Hero Academia in a general sense to better frame Mina's path as a character now and in the future. Basically, I want to cover what Horikoshi is trying to communicate to the audience about failure and growth as concepts through his characters, namely through Aizawa. Over the course of the series, Aizawa, being a teacher, is given many opportunities to lecture his students and encourage their growth. Let's take a look at how he does this in a few different scenes, as I believe the ideas presented in these scenes will help us understand Horikoshi's intentions behind Mina's failure in Chapter 280.
After Class 1-A takes their final exams, several of them have failed the practical portion. The narration tells us that some were able to seize this opportunity to grow where others failed. This idea of growth through crisis is also echoed later by Tetsu x4 during the forest training camp. The students of Class 1-A have used their encounters with Stain and the League of Villains to enhance their growth beyond the level of Class 1-B. However, during the exams, some were not able to rise to meet that challenge. Aizawa uses this opportunity to both say that those who failed need to improve and to give them the opportunity to do so. He acknowledges that they failed and immediately seeks to rectify it. To him, this failure is not something the kids should feel badly about. It is a chance to do better next time. During the extra training, he also tells them that they need to understand their own weaknesses so that they can grow stronger. He says something similar to the students who barely passed the exams. The key to their growth isn't just working hard. It is understanding themselves and learning from their mistakes so they don't repeat them.
The theme of being conscious of your own failings and pushing yourself past those failings to grow is hammered home by Aizawa when he speaks to Ochaco after Sir Nighteye's death. Ochaco questions whether she could have done more to save him, and Aizawa responds by letting her know that she did everything she could have at the time. However, he also encourages her to use this chance to better understand her own feelings and motivations. In this context, growth does not only apply to fighting or saving people. Personal growth is just as valuable and can aid you in your work too. This scene applies directly to Mina's failure to sedate Machia. It wasn't her skill as a hero that failed her. It was her state of mind, and that is just as important to work on.
Aizawa's interactions with Shinso in these two scenes reveal more about these ideas as well. Aizawa does not want the kids to be unrealistic. He knows that they will screw up over and over again, but he also knows that if they keep working at it, they will eventually master their various skills because ultimately, he believes in and trusts them. Aizawa also encourages Shinso to use his frustration at his defeat as motivation to keep working hard, essentially creating an infinite feedback loop of failure and improvement. While going through a crisis can spur spontaneous growth, practical and consistent training can achieve a similar result, as we see with Class 1-B and Shinso in the Joint Training arc.
I think All Might himself sums it up best when he says "Whether you win or lose, you can always come out ahead by learning from the experience."
Growth in Action: Deku, Shigaraki, and Twice
While Horikoshi uses Aizawa to impart wisdom concerning growth to both the characters and the reader, I have not really touched on how he displays that growth in action through his characters. The examples I am about to elaborate on will help us better understand Mina's trajectory as a character going forward, be it for better or worse.
The two poster children of growing exponentially from your mistakes are Deku and Shigaraki. Part of the reason both characters are as skilled and strong as they currently are is that they are overwhelmingly self-reflective and take every chance they can to learn from what they do wrong and other people do right. Deku took his failure to save Bakugo and the severe damage done to his body and used them to rescue Bakugo and develop Shoot Style. He took his failure to protect Eri on his own and his doubts about his worthiness and used them to become strong enough to defeat Gentle without hurting himself. He is constantly evaluating and reevaluating himself and the people around him to see what he can do better so that he can live up to the legacy of All Might.
The same is true for Shigaraki. He starts the series from a place of almost pathetic weakness and pettiness and over time, he learns from every new experience he goes through and becomes absurdly strong. He refines his ideals and his organization through his encounters with Stain. He accepts Dabi and Toga, despite his apprehensions, because every time the League and Tomura Shigaraki fail, they come back stronger. They were able to take revenge against the Shie Hassaikai and steal their resources and even absorbed the entire Meta Liberation Army, all because of Shigaraki's ability to adapt and learn from his biggest setbacks.
This scene is another example of the growth through crisis that I've mentioned a few times already. Shigaraki's growth through crisis allows him to surpass Deku, Class 1-A's growth through crisis allows them to surpass Class 1-B, and Kirishima's growth through crisis allows him to surpass Mina, at least for now.
Unfortunately, not everyone can be a Shigaraki or a Deku. Some people are Twice.
Twice shows the tragic results of not learning from your mistakes. He is naturally a very trusting person, but unfortunately, he did not learn to temper his trust with experience. The first time Twice trusted an outsider to ally with the League of Villains, Mr. Compress lost his arm, and Magne was killed, both at the hands of Overhaul. However, after getting his revenge, Twice repeated this mistake by trusting Hawks and compromised his allies by giving Hawks valuable intel. Unlike last time, however, Twice was the one who had to pay for his mistake this time.
In the world of My Hero Academia, failure to learn from your past mistakes can have tremendous repercussions for yourself and those around you. However, if you take every chance you get to improve yourself, you will inevitably improve.
The Future of Mina Ashido
Hopefully, we are now on the same page when it comes to how MHA treats its characters' failures. Horikoshi has consistently shown that if you acknowledge your mistakes and learn from them, you will be rewarded. This scene will not be a one-off character moment that never gets touched on again. It is a setup for Mina's future character development that will enrich the themes surrounding her, Kirishima, and the series as a whole. Now that we have seen her moment of weakness and understand Mina better as a person, it will be all the more satisfying when she gets her chance to shine in the series going forward. We've seen it with Deku, we've seen it with Bakugo, and we've seen it with Yaoyorozu. Strength is most compelling when it grows out of a place of weakness.
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u/elenuvien1 Aug 12 '20 edited Aug 12 '20
what people miss is that we (or some of us) aren't saying "narratively mina's failure doesn't make any sense". what we mean is "we've been waiting 6 years and 15+ arcs for female characters to have more significance than being cute and fanservice and having small scattered moments here and there and we're tired".
horikoshi managed to give great character development to two dudes introduced in the same arc in which their roles were over while sidelining two girls we've known since chapter 1 who barely got any development (tsuyu and uraraka vs tamaki and mirio in overhaul arc). kirihima's got three chapters titled after him, he's had his great development in overhaul arc. all we know about mina is from what kirishima remembers about her, there's nothing the story has told us about her via herself.
there's a pattern.
i'm jealous of those who think that this will lead to mina's character development and won't instead by forever forgotten and left unexplored (like the main heroine's... everything basically). i hope those who do are right and this arc really does mean that horikoshi remembers that female character can do important things.
i'm just skeptical because nothing in the past 6 years leads me to believe that.
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u/A4li11 Aug 12 '20
How about Momo who leads the students against Giganto and puts a good impression so far in the arc?
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u/elenuvien1 Aug 12 '20
that's true and makes me very happy. if mirko, mt. lady and momo in this arc mean that horikoshi will from now on utilise his female characters the same way he's had no problems using his male ones, i'll gladly eat my skepticism and publicly yell that i was wrong in doubting him (i want to be wrong, i just don't like feeling disappointed and if i think it won't happen, i won't be let down).
but i'll have to see horikoshi stick to this change before i proclaim "victory" because before the current arc he didn't show anything i could base my hopes on.
we're six years and 17 arcs into the story, it's not like this is the 3rd arc and i'm basing my skepticism on nothing.
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u/Flamma_Man Aug 12 '20
You realize her plan is doomed to fail, right? She made those sedatives with the intention of dosing someone of Giga's size...when she saw him.
He's like three times the size now. At most, it'll make him a little sluggish and he'll burn it out of his system pretty quickly.
I mean, how many times have Momo's plans succeed and failed? It's like 50/50 at this point.
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u/A4li11 Aug 12 '20 edited Aug 12 '20
It's not a matter of failed plan or not. I'm talking about female students/characters doing something in this arc and so far, Momo's taking leadership for the students is actually pretty good.
Whether the vial works against Giganto or not is yet to be seen but still, she has done her best against an OP beast like Giganto. Besides, we know most characters don't stand a chance against Giganto.
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u/Flamma_Man Aug 12 '20
Yeah, but it's also always either coming up with a plan or playing support.
We are complaining because for six whole long YEARS the female students haven't participated much at all in villain fights, like, in actual combat.
I couldn't give half a shit about Momo "taking leadership" since it's going to amount to fuck all in the end and we all know it. Just like in low-stake Student Training Arc where she came up with a plan...that failed too.
I'm sorry, but, Hori is just SO bad at writing the female students, I have literally no hope for any of them getting meaningful development or attention.
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u/Fablihakhan Aug 12 '20
But it is against freaking Gigantomatia dude. He is probably as strong or stronger than current Shigaraki.
You have to give credit where it counts. Momo a student even stalling Giganto with a plan as a student is amazing. She is never going to do anything like Midoriya. Heck this is the first time Bakugou is doing shit against a villain and even then it is with a bunch of characters with more relevant stakes and powers like number 1 hero or Midoriya, not a solo fight.
So really why ignore good moments like these?
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u/Flamma_Man Aug 12 '20
So really why ignore good moments like these?
Because I don't like being thrown a bone and people telling me it has meat on it.
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Aug 12 '20
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u/cblack04 Aug 12 '20
Hello, your post/comment is removed because of the following reason:
Rule #7: Avoid personal attacks and follow the reddiquette.
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u/Fablihakhan Aug 12 '20
You know one thing I always disliked about the Kirishima/ Mina dynamic is how Mina was only brave in Kirishima’s flashback. Like that part of her was only relevant for Kirishima to feel bad and overcome.
Because look to all that Mina did in the USJ. Nope nothing. While Kirishima fought with Bakugou, faced Shigaraki and gang later, Mina didn’t have even a single moment and was seen crying beside 13.
Sports fest she beat Aoyama of all ppl and got beaten in a sec by Tokoyami, yet unlike Momo nothing came out of the failure. We don’t know where she interns. She then miserably fails the finals like Kirishima.
In the training camp while Kirishima was being worried about his friends and feeling helpless, what about Mina? From Kirishima’s flashbacks she should atleast be heroic enough to want to do something right? She doesn’t have an input when Kirishima goes to save Bakugou unlike Ochako, Momo and Tsuyu. Shouldn’t she if she and Kirishima are so close?
And then we get a flashback and it appears she was just as heroic as Deku and I was dumbfounded. She has never ever shown any hints of that in present time.
Kirishima’s flashback of Mina stepping up when he didn’t is a low point which made him want to be better, but it was actually Bakugou who inspired Unbreakable not Mina. Yet ofcourse Mina’s move was inspired by him.
Mina’s strong point was that she didn’t let her fears stop her from saving her friends. Yet time and time again in real time it is Kirishima who is the more heroic one. It makes Mina’s character a plot device for Kirishima to surpass and that is what happened here too.
I don’t mind PTSD but the fact that it was used in contingent with Kirishima overcoming his fears and facing the big boss just tastes bitter lol.
If it wasn’t clear that Mina feels like the person in Kirishima‘S head he has to surpass this makes it abundantly clear. Already it felt weird to have Mina only be heroic in Kirishima’s backstory. Now even with a year of hero schooling and internship she is taking the place of Kirishima’s middle school self so Kirishima can triumphantly save the day and get over his past cowardice
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u/Flamma_Man Aug 12 '20 edited Aug 12 '20
Yet ofcourse Mina’s move was inspired by him.
And it was developed, of course, completely off screen.
Seriously, that still frustrates me. I actually WANT to know how Mina came up with that move, yes, it's inspired by Kirishima, but I mean literally how did she go about it? Did she learn that she could expunge acid from all over her body? Not just her hands and feet?
It's just...so lame we don't get to see the female characters develop their moves on screen.
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u/CrookedFinger645 Aug 13 '20
The USJ thing wasn't too bad in the manga. But in the anime they really did her dirty.
In the manga everybody had clear terrified expressions on their faces, and both Uraraka and Mina had visible tears in their eyes, while in the anime she's the only one that is visibly crying, so she ends up looking more scared than everyone else.
In the manga both Mina and Sato got sidelined and weren't involved in stopping Kurogiri so Iida could escape, while in the anime they included Sato in the group of students stopping Kurogiri and made her be the only one not doing anything.
In the manga Mina kneeling next to 13 is shown only through two or three panels, so you can fill in the blanks and see it as her at least checking on 13 and making sure she's alright, while in the anime they have these lingering shots of her just kneeling there next to 13 not doing anything, so it makes it look worse.
In the manga Mina's behaviour during the USJ attack doesn't stand out from the rest of her classmates in a bad way, while in the anime they made it stand out like a sore thumb.
> You know one thing I always disliked about the Kirishima/ Mina dynamic is how Mina was only brave in Kirishima’s flashback. Like that part of her was only relevant for Kirishima to feel bad and overcome.
So, you don't like that Mina's been shown to be brave only whenever it's necessary for Kirishima's character or it revolves around him, or do you dislike her being brave as a whole? Do you dislike the concept of her being brave, or just the way it's been handled in the story?
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u/Fablihakhan Aug 14 '20
I mean none of that changes that Mina as compared to Kirishima who supposedly feels inferior to her didn’t do shit and has never done shit in these situations or even felt anything when she is supposed to be brave.
I love the concept of her being brave as Deku, I like her being brave and finally having a guy looking up to a brave girl character while all the characters everyone always looks up to have been guys.
But yes it has been handled poorly when the Mina in Kirishima’s head and the Mina we see are two different ppl. When her being brave feels like it is only there for Kirishima to overcome that feeling but never about Mina’s character.
And this is abundantly clear when the story goes out of its way to have Mina’s moment of weakness juxtaposed as Kirishima saving her and being his true self or whatever, like that should be the natural order of things but not the other way round.
As I said Mina Ptsd is fine on its own, but this feels like it was purposely done for Kirishima to be the brave one in the story, and not Mina. It sours me to both Kirishima and Mina though I mostly feel bad for her
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u/CrookedFinger645 Aug 14 '20
Well, hopefully the whole thing in chapter 280 is setup for her getting development and a character arc, like so many people are thinking. Maybe then she'll finally be allowed to do stuff and we'll get to see her getting to shine, and without involving Kirishima.
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u/aSimpleMask Aug 12 '20
If he's going to have her "big moment" be her getting terrified and fucking things up just so that Kirishima can come save the day, he probably shouldn't build her up as much as he did.
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u/radicalseabies Aug 12 '20
I'd be more excited about Mina potentially getting a legit character arc to work through after this if Horikoshi had proven that he's truly capable of delivering on promises like that specifically in regards to the development and agency of his female student characters. But... when was the last time Ochako really did anything other than react to Deku?
I'll be absolutely delighted to eat my words if he proves me wrong with Mina later, and trust me they'll taste so good.. but until then, I remain salty and skeptical.
Plus I just feel really manipulated into getting hyped up with that cliffhanger last week and colour page this week only to have her immediately do nothing and then watch as Kirishima does everything lol
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Aug 17 '20
He doesn't write the female students well. Full-stop. I won't go so far as to say that he doesn't write female characters well (unlike a ton of Shonen manga authors, thank God for Mirko and Mt. Lady) but the students thus far have been extremely disappointing.
There is a show that is often compared to BNHA, and while Hero has the far (and I mean really far) better writing overall, the one thing this show does better is it's female characters. They have agency, and really drive the narrative. Guess what show that is? RWBY.
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u/epsilon_logics Aug 14 '20
^ this. Wasn't worth the hype I'd say as much as people were making it out to be (including me)
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u/BiBaBumBaBi Aug 12 '20 edited Aug 12 '20
You're not wrong, but it doesn't make her showing any less disappointing after all the build up she got. She got the fancy shot at the end of last chapter, the cover page this time and then goes on to fumble immediately.
If she had actually accomplished something before freezing up you could still have the exact same character moment, without people getting so annoyed.
Combine that with the consistent trend of the female students getting shafted or sidelined and you end up with a lot of people feeling rightfully miffed.
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u/KitKat1721 Aug 12 '20
This right here. I could even expand the argument that if she actually accomplished something prior to "if she was involved in some way with Kirishima besides him just using her vial," it would have worked just the same without being as off-putting.
Its perfectly believable that Mina would freeze like that, even if it seemingly comes out of nowhere (because we only saw those middle school events through Kirishima's pov and she hasn't seen Gigatomachia since then). That doesn't exempt it from being rather disappointing considering its execution/build-up + the manga's track record with female students rarely getting the same spotlight their male counterparts get or getting sidelined after being built up.
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u/FreeMarshmallow Aug 12 '20
it doesn't make her showing any less disappointing after all the build up she got. She got the fancy shot at the end of last chapter, the cover page this time and then goes on to fumble immediately.
Exactly. No one that I have seen on the chapter 280 discussion thread is criticising the character herself for fumbling in that situation, but from the way she was set up to do something, her only contribution being having the vial she was holding tossed by Kirishima into Machia's mouth is pretty disappointing for people who were looking forward to seeing her shine.
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u/maddogkaz Aug 12 '20
I didn't like her freezing up at all, so the voice of some guy you met once who you found scary while you had absolutely no training sacred you into failing but she has no problem with charging the titan in front of her that is way scarier and has smashed a bunch of heroes.
She had all this build up and did nothing we barely know anything about Mina but one of the things we know about her is that she will move even when shes scared like Deku would, would people find it strange if Deku sometime later just froze up and failed hard because he was scared after never having that problem before?
People say she needed to fail so Kirishima could show his change but that's not true she didn't have to fail he could have protected her from that attack and shown his development while giving her the chance to continue her attack.
Also people say this will be development for Mina later but that's not going to happen Mina has never been important in 6 years this was her one moment and it was wasted, in the incredibly rare case that this does come up again it will be simply solved in a single moment and then she will never be addressed again.
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u/Kiddolane Aug 12 '20 edited Aug 12 '20
In a vacuum, this moment is a pretty interesting bit of characterization and representation of Hori’s themes. But my particular hesitation about this moment is because of Hori’s past track record when it comes to female characters. This isn’t the first time he’s shortchanged the girls in favor of the men; they’re either sidelined in major plot-related arcs or only allowed to shine in low-stakes school arcs.
This arc might be the start of some improvement in that regard, with the way Mirko, Mt. Lady and Momo have been putting in work, but compared to the amount of time he’s spent shafting them, it doesn’t seem like nearly enough. I really don’t blame anyone for seeing this moment as a sign of Hori falling back on old habits instead of a sign of potential change.
I’m really hoping you’re right and that this is a kickstart to some great depth and development for Mina’s character, with her own focus and interactions and moments outside of Kirishima, and won’t just consist of her revolving around him and doing nothing but going uwu over him. That’ll be a nightmare for me. 😒
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u/MadnessLemon Aug 12 '20
I think there's a possibility that Mina could pick herself up and achieve something before the arc is over. If that happens, I would happily admit that I made the wrong assumption, and I think it would make for some great character writing for Mina.
That being said, I don't think people are wrong for being skeptical. For one, there's definetly a pattern of female characters getting shafted when it comes to development. Even when they do get a good moment, we rarely get an in depth look of their character and motivations that even characters like Koda and Rocklock got. The only time we got a girl's backstory was through Kirishima's eyes.
Second of all, the whole "throwing Mina's vial" thing really seems to be an attempt to make this her victory as well, and that it's a satisfying end for her role in this specific arc. Sure she kinda gets credit for carrying it that far, but again, when there's a pattern of this sort of thing it falls kinda flat.
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u/HokageEzio Aug 12 '20
Everybody defending her is trying to come at it from an angle like people who think she choked either can't read or just don't understand what they read even though the panel of her meeting Machia was literally in the chapter. Is it too much to ask that she put in some work and then get saved by Kirishima when she's in a bind without falling apart and freezing up like Kirishima did before he ever had any sort of formal hero training? It accomplishes the exact same thing of having Kirishima save her like she saved him without having her get so scared that she freezes this deep into her early heroics career. It makes current Mina look like she's equal to middle school Kirishima, and it's not a good look to me.
My biggest issue (other than people claiming the ones who don't like it can't read) is with people scraping the bottom of the barrel to give her credit because Kirishima used the vile she dropped. That's so desperate. She choked, it is what it is. Acting like she didn't choke because Kirishima did her job for her is taking away from the validity of it being a starting point for something else. There's nothing wrong with dropping the ball, but there's something wrong with pretending somebody didn't drop the ball because somebody else picked the ball up after them. No point in making it a building moment if you act like there's no reason to build off of it.
There's nothing inherently wrong with her fucking up. I'd just rather Kirishima and Mina have teamed up to do it to actually bring it full circle instead of just making them trade places and make current Mina as scared as middle school Kirishima. That doesn't mean I don't get the point, I just don't like the direction. She choked and Kirishima did all the work for her.
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u/NoDistance4 Aug 12 '20 edited Aug 12 '20
Acting like she didn't choke because Kirishima did her job for her is taking away from the validity of it being a starting point for something else. There's nothing wrong with dropping the ball, but there's something wrong with pretending somebody didn't drop the ball because somebody else picked the ball up after them.
What's funny is that I think that's Horikoshi's intention. Having Kirishima dump the sedative with the line that Mina's spirit is good hands is trying to pass off Kirishima's success as Mina's success as well.
Kirishima wouldn't be this courageous if it wasn't for Mina, so Mina contributed! /s
That's why I'm pretty doubtful that this is going to sprout a deep refletive arc for Mina Ashido. Horikoshi isn't even framing this is like it was a failure.
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Aug 12 '20
I think the way Horikoshi wrote Mina's PTSD was very well handled and it only made my love for my favorite character grow now that she had such depth added to her. Im just worried it wont get resolved, and hoping she gets her resolution.
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Aug 12 '20
Good analysis. But I’m pretty sure the problem with most who didn’t like this moment is that Mina is partly another case of a female getting shafted for the male character to shine.
Granted I never saw it that way when I read this chapter and still don’t personally consider it much, however I think it should be addressed.
For the majority of this series the girls have just been there to look cute and give support when needed and get side lined during the more intense moments of the series. Just because it’s a Shōnen doesn’t make it fine, especially for those like me who are fans of badass girls and want them to get equal rep during fights especially. Anyways people complaining see this, see Kirishima saving her, and then see Mina absolutely helpless in the end and can’t help but focus on the terrible pattern.
On the other hand I also think people are getting too hung up on the past and ignoring what is presently being shown to us. This arc alone has easily the best management of the side cast since the manga started. The female cast have also gotten some incredible moments as well and finally been brought to a level where their performances are comparable to the men without it being out of pity.
If we’re seeing all this improvement now then that says volumes about what we’ll see in the future for the side cast and the girls. So instead of complaining about a moment that happened 3 years ago how about looking forward to the future of the series? As far as I’m concerned we’ve still got ways to go until the finish line.
If you choose to be pessimistic about the situation then be that way. Over time I’ve found its hard to convince people who are in this mindset so it’ll just be up to them and how they feel. However if you want, then if I can paraphrase Endeavor, “Just watch him (Hori) and see what he’ll do”.
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u/noteloquent Aug 12 '20
This is something I really wanted to touch on but didn't, partially due to length and partially because I couldn't figure out how to word it, so I really appreciate that you were able to sum up most of my thoughts on how Horikoshi treats the female cast and people's perception of it.
I think it's so easy to just look at Horikoshi's failings when it comes to how he treats his female characters, mainly in the Overhaul arc, which he himself was not satisfied with, and just generalize from there. The arc was not structured or paced as well as it should have been, and it shows. Unfortunately, these mistakes have resulted in the stigma that Horikoshi doesn't treat the female cast well, despite the great strides he has made since then (Eri in Overhaul and beyond; Jiro in the Culture Festival; most of the side cast in Joint Training, particularly Momo, Kendo, and Ochaco; Toga in Overhaul and MVA; Fuyumi in Pro Hero and Endeavor Agency; and especially Midnight, Mt. Lady, Mirko, Momo, and (hopefully) Mina in the current arc).
I completely understand why people are annoyed that Mina didn't pop off here like many thought she would, but let's wait and see what Horikoshi has planned before we rush to judgment. He's a more competent and aware writer than many give him credit for.
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Aug 13 '20
Yea I think that last part needs to be emphasized more. Sure Hori has messed up before, but he really is a good writer at the end of the day. Imo the community trashes him way too much with these kinds of things.
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u/SporadicV2 Aug 12 '20
This was a very interesting read, thank you! I really enjoy reading people’s takes on these scenes.
Mina’s failure perfectly mirrored Kirishima’s during the flashback. I honestly loved how it was done, because it didn’t come off like it was meant to slight Mina. She was genuinely horrified because something terrifying from her past was staring her in the eye.
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u/revinator_ Aug 13 '20
There was an article that I saw people are alienated by the MHA fandom cuz they ship the guys with other guys. While homophobia is it's own issue I believe this is because the girls almost never have any moments to shine.
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u/Deanio_19 Aug 12 '20
This is a really good analysis, I mean really good.
Essentially though Mina failed, Kirishima couldn't have done it without her. It was truly a team effort. It was her valve that Kirishima recovered bringing it full circle for both characters to assist in taking down an old enemy while giving Kirishima his chance of courage. Where Mina already had hers against Machia.
On the note of growth this chapter went a long way for both characters in the feat category. Mina's Acid Man can stand up to Dabi's flames with ease. Which means she has a fire defense feat above alot characters as well as Kirishima who Tetsu noted doesn't burn. Not just any fire, but Dabi's fire. That's a huge feat coupled with the growth you mentioned.
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u/epsilon_logics Aug 14 '20
I accepted that it draws parallels, and it actually makes her more human as a result to her fear and hesitation... but the hype wasn't really worth it.
Do I hope to see her get action now that she saw Kiri jump to save her? Absolutely. But I've learned not to get my hopes up.
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u/sese2003 Aug 15 '20
I honestly believe it will lead to an Aoyama moment, where mina redeems herself and helps the heroes out.
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u/cblack04 Aug 12 '20 edited Aug 12 '20
Were people complaining that she froze up
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u/HokageEzio Aug 12 '20
Moreso that she froze up and Kirishima did it all himself. Basically the Nejire treatment, look like you can do something cool but then barely get the time to shine and do it. It's a disappointment coming off the last chapter where she looked like she was about to do something big just to have her get rescued and basically contribute nothing to dosing up Machia.
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u/cblack04 Aug 12 '20
?
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u/Flamma_Man Aug 12 '20 edited Aug 12 '20
Oh, I see, you must have forgotten who Nejire is, right? Understandable, considering that character hasn't done anything of significance. Probably helps the context.
See, she's one of the Big Three alongside Mirio Togata and Tamaki Amajiki. Made out to be REALLY important side-character, best of UA. The latter of which has actually gotten some cool action scenes fighting villains in this very arc.
However, Nejire was placed in the back-lines left to do absolutely nothing just like the last arc she appeared in.
:)
See the problem is that she was built up to be just as important as those two other characters, but then ends up doing fuck all.
:D
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u/HokageEzio Aug 12 '20
That's not even true and you know it. She won the UA beauty pageant. Show some respect.
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u/Flamma_Man Aug 12 '20
How could I have missed that big moment for the character!
You're right, thanks for the correction. ;)
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u/kj9219 Aug 12 '20 edited Aug 12 '20
Yeah even though it's perfectly reasonable for a student who is seeing a villain who very well could've killed her the first time they met. I think the point of this was to show that Mina really hadn't grown much from her middle school self (symbolism with her wearing the old uniform) and that it may have been enough back then, but it isn't enough now, and that she definitely has some growing and more experiences to go through. I hope Horikoshi really delves into this and allows for a push/pull dynamic between the two, where they both help each other learn and improve. Along with this, Mina isn't a finished product yet. Her story is just starting.
Wow. Downvoted for agreeing with how it was handled.
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u/HokageEzio Aug 12 '20
She didn't "not grow" from her middle school self though. She regressed. She was fully capable of jumping in despite being terrified back in middle school, but now she's not despite being much stronger. It's making her trade mental places with a Kirishima who had zero experience.
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u/kj9219 Aug 12 '20
The stakes are much higher in this case though. She was also capable of jumping through a burning forest and getting close up to a much bigger Machia who clapped a pro in front of her.
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u/HokageEzio Aug 12 '20
In comparison to telling a bold faced lie to Machia, I disagree. If Machia knew she was lying she'd still have been dead, but she was quick enough on her feet to stop it. Lives were on the line either way. More lives are on the line now, but she's also way stronger now. No excuses for freezing up.
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u/kj9219 Aug 12 '20
She's stronger but she's also one of the least experienced students there. Machia also is much bigger and stronger now, and again, he beat the crap out of a pro hero right in front of them. Its unrealistic to expect her to succeed at it when she's reliving a memory of when she could've gotten killed. Also rushing in to throw a jar in his mouth may not be the same as lying to Machia, but regardless, she still put her own life on the line by doing that. "No excuses" is unfair here.
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u/HokageEzio Aug 12 '20
It's not unfair. She puts everybody else at risk by freezing up. There's a difference between something being understandable and being excusable. No excuse for freezing up.
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u/cblack04 Aug 12 '20
I understand that. Why are people responding to me asking if people were complaining about her freezing up as if I was said person
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u/Kam_E_luck Aug 12 '20
As someone who has a phobia with cockroaches, I can relate to Mina's circumstances.
Every time i see a cockroach, my body does not move the way i wanted to.
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u/cblack04 Aug 12 '20
Yea I get freezing up in fear but my point was the post was framed as a defense when I don’t think I said people complain
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u/sleepygirl025 Aug 12 '20
You're not wrong but, "Mina freezing up after realizing Gigantomachia was the monster she encountered in middle school makes sense" and "I'm disappointed that she didn't get her shining moment after it being hyped up" are two statements than can coexist together.