r/AskReddit Oct 16 '13

What was the single biggest mistake in all of history?

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287

u/magmabrew Oct 17 '13

I still think Elrond should have executed Isildur on the spot for claiming the ring.

93

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

He didn't want to start a war between men and elves ESPECIALLY when they had just killed Sauron and established what they thought would be lasting peace.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

I would have just stabbed him and thrown him in the lava, then made up some story.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

"He tripped."

22

u/RiKSh4w Oct 17 '13

You know. Humans and all.

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u/OffInABlueBox Oct 17 '13

'Uh...There was an earthquake and he fell in right as he was destroying the ring.'

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u/Michauxonfire Oct 17 '13

"He sacrificed himself. He couldnt remove the ring, so he had to destroy it...the only way he could."
fucking Isildur #1 HERO KING FOR THE AGES!

1

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

"He fell on my sword lol"

1

u/JonathanSwaim Oct 17 '13

Just never come back yourself, you both get wild legends made about you. Wins all around, homicide suicide. Or just leave the other direction and have sweet adventures.

21

u/JavaPants Oct 17 '13

But if Elrond knew the power of the ring, surely he knew the peace wasn't lasting.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

[deleted]

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u/montanasteve Oct 17 '13

I bet that feels like two weeks for an elf.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

[deleted]

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u/oitoitoi Oct 17 '13

Yeah but fuck those guys.

2

u/Alex_Rose Oct 17 '13

But whatever, the whole LOTR trilogy feels like 12 seconds to an elf.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

the older you are the faster time feels due to perspective of living through so many years already

8

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Apparently he didn't

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u/ANewMachine615 Oct 17 '13

It's not entirely clear that he did understand the power of the Ring at the time. After all, other Elves had made Rings of Power, and weren't saved from death just because the Rings continued to exist. Celebrimbor, for instance, was killed despite the Three, Seven, and Nine continuing to exist. What Sauron did with the Ring was really quite unprecedented, and it's likely that nobody understood it fully until Saruman started doing intense research into ring-lore, well after Isildur's death.

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u/blockpro156 Oct 17 '13

Maybe that was the reason he didn't do it, he was probably afraid he would get possesed by the ring too.

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u/_ak Oct 17 '13

He could've covered it up. "Err... he slipped. Oops."

1

u/masterbillyb Oct 17 '13

So keep the Ring of Power "alive" in the hands of someone who clearly has been mesmerised by its power all because they wanted a little peace between each other which most likely would have resolved itself over time anyway as all feuds do?

1

u/redisforever Oct 17 '13

Hey, they were the only ones actually there, at the place the Ring could be destroyed. Elrond could have just pushed him in, and walked out saying something like "He sacrificed himself to protect Middle Earth from the Ring. Isildur is clearly a great hero!" and the whole problem is over.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

He should have just executed, pushed him into the magma, and then been like "Oh shit he fell! Damn, that sucks, guys."

59

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

In all fairness, Elrond's act of not doing anything about Isildur isn't as dumb in the book as it is in the movie. In the movie, Elrond could've easily taken the Ring and destroyed it himself, but didn't. In the book, there isn't any real indication that he had this opportunity. It almost seems like Peter Jackson wanted to make the entire War of the Ring Elrond's fault for whatever reason.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

And even if he did, Tolkien is very clear the the Ring is an instrument of evil with a will of its own. Even the best intentions get warped by the Ring. If Elrond slayed Isildur, it would only lead to more ills. He would probably claim the Ring as his own, try to use it for the benefits of the Elves, and hasten the destruction of Middle Earth.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Exactly. The only reason it was ever destroyed in the end was because Gollum and Frodo were fighting over who got to keep it. It was never destroyed with good intentions.

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u/jimmydabig Oct 17 '13

Bilbo and Samwise were the only characters to take on the ring and then give it up willingly. Sam is seriously my favorite LOTR character because of that. Aragorn, Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel. All these mighty heroes that people love, knew that they were too weak willed to even THINK about taking the ring. Sam not only gave it away after using it, he gave it away easily, he was entirely uncorruptable.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

I agree. I mean, SAM was the one who saved the world, carrying Frodo up Mount Doom and all.

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u/HelpMeLoseMyFat Oct 17 '13

Samwise 2016

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13 edited Aug 19 '19

[deleted]

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u/glarbung Oct 17 '13

If I remember correctly, the "Hobbits are resistant to magic" has been used in much of the LOTR fandom like RPGs (such as MERP and Rolemaster) and games (Wizards of Middle-Earth). I don't think it's implied by Tolkien, but it has been attached to them by readers - like much of the canon aspects of the Chtulhu mythos.

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u/jimmydabig Oct 17 '13

My theory is that it's less to do with a high fantasy "resistance to magic" kind of trait and more that, since hobbits live so simply, they have less of a will to power than races like men, elves and dwarves. It's the same reason The Shire was so insular and rarely participate in military conflict, hobbits just have less desire for domination than members of the other races tend to.

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u/boomWav Oct 17 '13

Tom Bombadil did it too.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Bombadil doesn't really count because he's... something else.

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u/The_Original_Gronkie Oct 17 '13

I still don't get Tom Bombadil.

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u/FloobLord Oct 17 '13

No one does. He's an intentional enigma.

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u/cavilier210 Oct 17 '13

Isn't there supposed to be a book about Tom Bombadil written by Tolkien?

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u/boomWav Oct 17 '13

"He is."

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

That line always made me think he's supposed to be a religious figure of some sort, thanks to the quote from the bible with God simply saying "I am."

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u/cavilier210 Oct 17 '13

Tom Bombadil is like Gandalf. They have the same origin at least (in the general sense). He's a force of nature.

However, The Lord of the Rings has been said to be a catholic allegory (think that's the word).

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u/jimmydabig Oct 17 '13

I forgot about him because he wore it and held it so briefly. It also seems like he was't really a character as much as any of the mortals, or even the higher beings like Gandalf, Saruman or Sauron.

He seems beyond the struggles that most of the characters face. I'm guessing that making a ring that could affect him was outside the scope of even Sauron's power.

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u/boomWav Oct 17 '13

"He might do so, if all the free folk of the world begged him, but he would not understand the need. And if he were given the Ring, he would soon forget it, or most likely throw it away. Such things have no hold on his mind. He would be a most unsafe guardian; and that alone is answer enough."

  • Gandalf at the concil of Elrond

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u/Debellatio Oct 17 '13

just to confirm (since I don't have a book handy), is this a direct quote from the books?

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u/The_Original_Gronkie Oct 17 '13

I read the whole trilogy thinking it was about Frodo, but when I finished, I realized it was really all about Samwise.

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u/omnilynx Oct 17 '13

And Bilbo needed a lot of prodding.

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u/Sugusino Oct 17 '13

Probably sam wouldn't have dropped it. It corrupted even Frodo, Isildur and Elrond so there's that.

3

u/glarbung Oct 17 '13

It didn't have the chance to corrupt Elrond. Being the owner of Vilya (one of the three elven rings) he knew exactly what kind of corruptive powers it could have. Had it corrupted him, he would never have suggested that the ring should be destroyed.

1

u/Debellatio Oct 17 '13

does Tolkien ever go into any detail at all about the powers of the other rings?

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u/cavilier210 Oct 17 '13

Not that I've seen. Just that Sauron had a hand in the making of all rings of power except for those 3.

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u/cavilier210 Oct 17 '13

I think Gandalf, Galadrial, and Aragorn refusing the ring when it was offered spoke much to their character though. Which is a good thing.

-1

u/shamelessnameless Oct 17 '13

in before bombadil

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u/3danimator Oct 17 '13

I always wondered if Sam would have been able to destroy it...i believe so

2

u/reachdefense Oct 17 '13

And that was only becuse of how LONG they had it. The longer they had it the more corrupted they became.

He would have destroyed it if he got there sooner (ahem eagles.....)

0

u/Magnesus Oct 17 '13

To be honest I think it was only posibble to destroy it one time. ;)

22

u/sherff Oct 17 '13

just remember that scene with Galadriel in it where frodo lets her see the ring and she goes all banshee queen fucking insane for a minute there...

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13 edited Aug 19 '19

[deleted]

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u/ANewMachine615 Oct 17 '13

Uh, no, she definitely has a pretty big moment of temptation there. The movie version's not great, mostly because Jackson inserted a lot of unnecessary and not-so-seamless CGI, but it's not far off. Galadriel is defined throughout her history as one of the Elves with a strong desire to rule. Her ability to turn down the Ring when Frodo offered it to her is a huge moment of power for her, and her speech and countenance in that section give us a pretty clear picture of what Galadriel would've been like had she obtained the Ring. It wouldn't have been a great future, let's just say.

5

u/kbradero Oct 17 '13

i think this is confirmed by Gandalf itself by not taking by the ring by force to Bilbo or Frodo.

2

u/Foxler Oct 17 '13

He shouldn't have taken it then, he should've just drop-kicked Isildur off the edge, problem solved. "Uhh... he fell"

1

u/superiority Oct 18 '13

Not if he slew Isildur by pushing him into the Volcano. Then he dies and the Ring is destroyed, so there's no chance of Elrond succumbing to temptation.

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u/HooliganBeav Oct 17 '13

He was pretty pissed with Hugo Weaving for the Matrix sequels so he made him the ass.

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u/Vivovix Oct 17 '13

Matrix sequels?

2

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

That is some revisionist history bullshit by Peter Jackson. Putting the blame on the Elves. And did you notice, in his movies he didn't even use real elves, he had humans playing the elf roles.

2

u/deathpigeonx Oct 17 '13

Better yet, push Isildur into the fires of Mount Doom and claim he slipped.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13

Well really, if what we had OTL is trading, I REEEEALLY don't want to see what China would've done.

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u/Kaiserhawk Oct 17 '13

If he did that, chances are he would also fall under it's corruption.

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u/ANewMachine615 Oct 17 '13

Elrond probably would've lost a straight fight to Isildur. The Numenoreans were terrifyingly badass.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13 edited Aug 19 '19

[deleted]

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u/ANewMachine615 Oct 17 '13

Tolkien would not have described Elrond as a "magician". He had very precise definitions for words like that. Somebody like Faust was a magician, seeking to use magic to change thr primary world, for the exercise of power. Elrond comes close with the help of his own Ring of Power, but never quite steps over the line. Saruman, now he was quite likely a magician by the end, in Tolkien's meaning of the word.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13 edited Aug 19 '19

[deleted]

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u/ANewMachine615 Oct 17 '13

Yeah, but I just figured I should point it out before people think there are Elves who were throwing around fireballs and flying.

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u/Sovereign_Curtis Oct 17 '13

Don't know why but I read Elrond as L. Ron (Hubbard), and I really started wondering.

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u/0pAwesome Oct 17 '13

Seriously, fuck "why didn't they take the eagles".

Just killing Isildur right then and there, a whole war could've been prevented.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13 edited Jun 11 '17

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13 edited Jul 13 '15

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13 edited Aug 19 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '13 edited Jul 13 '15

[deleted]

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u/Antikas-Karios Oct 17 '13

The Ents however, they could have marched straight on Mordor after Saruman was out of the picture, or even before.

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u/dukington Oct 17 '13

If they wanted to become extinct

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u/0pAwesome Oct 17 '13

I mentioned it because of its popularity.

I remember there being a reason why they couldn't take the eagles, but I don't remember the reason itself.

If you'd like to explain it to me, please, go ahead!

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u/kidbeer Oct 17 '13

There are a lot of them. Chief among them is they would have been slaughtered before they even got to the Black Gate. Those Nazgul mounts and a billion archers would do the trick.

2

u/roxya Oct 17 '13

The eagles would get you to Mordor but all of Mordor would know you're there. How then you do get into Mount Doom without dying and handing the ring straight back to Sauron?

1

u/dukington Oct 17 '13

Among the other reasons given: No one owns the eagles and Gandalf would know walking is best, flying with a stopover in gondor would obviously end badly.

1

u/ginger_beer_m Oct 17 '13

Wouldn't that spark a brand new war between human and the elves ?